Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[Galong]

Whoa, long thread, can't be bothered to read it all ... yada, yada, yada

OK, this will hopefully bring you up to speed:

1. Something happened in Pai with a cop and two tourists.

2. Tempers flared

3. Nasty posts deleted by moderators

4. Assumptions made

5. Tempers flared

6. Acceptance that some of us are wrong

7. More assumptions made

8. Agreement on some points

9. Friendships made... sort of

10. Assumptions made, but more politely presented

Peace

[grantbkk]

Now if you look at the police as a "closed system" that cannot be threatened from within or without for fear of upsetting the balance of things you begin to understand why they protect their own at all costs. Very powerful people have ownership in this system and if it becomes threatened, history will show they close ranks and protect what is theirs. If the lower ranking officers are not protected from culpability or at the very least protected from jail and continue to receive a salary to feed the family, the system will breakdown. The police commanders must have the unwaivering support of the rank and file to sustain the cash flow and maintain the status quo. It is quite easy for the police to ride out the media storm by making moves we have all seen before. A quick arrest and the obligatory reassignment to an "inactive post". Additional action will be seen by the rank and file as a weakness in the command staff and the system will be in jeopardy. In their mind it is really a case of "us (police) versus them (anyone else).

can you explain more? how would one cop going to jail break down their system?

It is like gangsters. If the big brother does not support the little brothers, how would the little brothers support the big brother.

grantbkk made a good post, I think.

Guess how many illegal stuff the police gets involved in on a daily basis. And how many things this policeman know is going on. Do people think he is going to stay quiet about what he knows if his life is going to be fvcked up? Police are going to protect police anywhere in the world especially in a developing country.

Memiathai is correct. This is not one police officer going to jail. If the sergeant did do time it would be seen as a failure of their system to protect their own. This is not an isolated case of possible police corruption here in Thailand. Many cases at several levels occur here everyday but we don't hear about them and do not involve the killing of a foreigner. the behavior of the police in this case and numerous others are systemic and will not change anytime soon.

Edited January 14, 2008 by grantbkk

[chiang mai]

Whoa, long thread, can't be bothered to read it all ... yada, yada, yada

OK, this will hopefully bring you up to speed:

1. Something happened in Pai with a cop and two tourists.

2. Tempers flared

3. Nasty posts deleted by moderators

4. Assumptions made

5. Tempers flared

6. Acceptance that some of us are wrong

7. More assumptions made

8. Agreement on some points

9. Friendships made... sort of

10. Assumptions made, but more politely presented

Peace

Great precise, is the answer still 42 or should I check back in another 500 posts or so. Nah, don't answer that, think I'll watch the news instead.

[Claymore]

"It's a shame that Drummond prejudiced the case by saying that locals in Pai were not to be trusted"

How's about that for a malicious misquote worthy of the National Enquirer!!!

Andrew Drummond has pointed out that most locals in Pai are scared to give evidence against the police and compared this to a similar situation in Kanchanaburi.

No doubt he will change his mind when he sees the waiter and Sabaijai's off duty policeman on the prosecution witness list.

[brahmburgers]

No Thai witnesess are going to say anything that bolsters the case against the cop.

The truth takes a back seat in these scenarios.

.....with one possible exception. The Thai boyfriend would probably like to give honest evidence - but it's highly unlikely, if he cares to stay among the living.

The murdered lad and the seriously injured woman were mightily unlucky that night. Thailand's police force has a whole lot of cleaning up to do. Best would be an outsider (non-Thai) with an iron-clad mandate to do whatever's necessary. No Thai can clean up the police force as it is - any more than any Thai can make a serious dent in endemic corruption at gov't level.

[BarryMan]

How's about that for a malicious misquote worthy of the National Enquirer!!!

Andrew Drummond has pointed out that most locals in Pai are scared to give evidence against the police and compared this to a similar situation in Kanchanaburi.

No doubt he will change his mind when he sees the waiter and Sabaijai's off duty policeman on the prosecution witness list.

A malicious misquote? I don't think so. How bout an accurate paraphrase of the following quote Drummond gave Canada's CBC: "There are witnesses in Pai today saying, 'No, it wasn't the policeman who struck the first blow. It was Carly, that Carly and Leo were having a fight in the street and the policeman was summoned to calm them down and Carly attacked him.' "Of course you have to take this all with a little bit of a pinch of salt. Nobody in Pai is going to give evidence against their local policeman," said Drummond, explaining that residents are afraid of the local police.

Doesn't that in effect suggest that the locals in Pai lack credibility? Of course it does and it has been proven wrong by the accounts given by locals who went ON THE RECORD as saying that the cop had been drunk that night. Drummond has been playing the role of judge and jury from the get-go and quotes like the above, baseless, are highly prejudicial. I take back nothing of what I wrote. I don't think the comparisons with Kanchanaburi are sound based on the evidence that has surfaced thus far, but he made the connection immediately and said it had all the markings of a 'face-saving' killing before he had any of the facts.

Shame to see this thread devolve once again into the tired "Police would never convict one of their own", especially after Stephen Cleary clearly pointed out the fact that they do so all the time.

[kat]

Any word from anyone on the progress of forensic investigations into this?

According to news reports, they should be carrying out the autopsy this morning, which is now in North America.

quote Arkady:

"We have to accept that the country does not have rule of law and we are only one step from the bottom of the pile when it comes to respect for our rights. Accepting this is a trade off as to how much you like living here and what benefits you get. Refusing to acknowledge you are making this trade off is naive.

Foreigners cannot change this situation."

I couldn't agree with you more Arkady, but I am not as optimistic as you in how and if it can change.

If true - and I agree with you both - then the victims' behaviour and local history become very, very relevant. In Thailand it isn't rule of law that carries the day, but rather the rules of status and power. Violate those rules and/or provoke those in uniform and you must acknowledge the potential consequences just as surely as you should, as Arkady writes, acknowledge the trade-offs.

Yes, I agree with you here also, SJ. I still stand by my earlier statements that if you threaten a police officer anywhere, it is very bad news. However, in most other places, policemen have to be responsible for bad decisions - as do civilians.

We also don't know if she did threaten a police officer, because we have conflicting, ambiguous, and half-drawn accounts from all sides, none of which I find more trustworthy than the other.

After all the speculation on the 'details' the following are the basic facts.

An armed cop shot 2 unarmed people. The 2nd person shot was a female. The cop ran away.

The 'official' version has more holes in it than the people shot.

Pathetic little man, I hope he gets his punishment but I doubt anything will happen in the long run.

Only if you see everything in black and white, with no shades of grey. However no court system would see it this simply, even in Thailand. There's a substantial list of investigative procedures, situational factors, intent, etc to be examined ... if you believe in justice.

Yes, agreed, but I don't see that happening in Thailand, even for an open and shut case, and the history of criminal cases here bears this out. There is a lot of grey in this case.

I think what is called for is an official press release from Lonely Planet guru Joe Cummings, spokesman and darling of teenage SE Asian backpackers.

I'm pretty sure that Joe is with us - at least in spirit!

Yeah, I'd still like to meet him and buy him a cup of tea sometime.

[thaigene2]

Well, so many posts...

Interesting to see so many posts by people who've just recently registered - no locations on many - leading me to wonder if they are sitting in some Canadian house/apartment with the mid-winter heating on full blast. Kinda bored - as that's what happens...(ya know)

To the arm-chair sleuths who've never been to Thailand even on holiday, much less lived here, bear the following in mind:

The world outside your little oyster shell is a salty shallow grave, which you must deftly navigate - there is no safety net here. You're swimming on your own - mind the hooks, mind the sharks and mind the bullets!

[Johpa]

The reality is that in Thailand, police buy their positions, thereby confounding the tenant that 'anyone who seeks a position of power, should be barred from it. Their training is lax, and especially outside the 'tourist zone' they are minded to treat all foreigners with, at best, disdain, since they are unlikely to have protective shielding or connexions of value.

As one who spends the majority of his time in-country far outside the tourist zones I would have to disagree. If anything, foreigners are given a bit of leeway, a smile, and a bit of avoidance, but not disdain. We are not part of the Thai social universe nor part of the traditional patron-client system. And as sources of income for the tourist industry, the rules emanating from the higher ranks is to leave the Farangs alone. Within the tourist zones, it is not unusual to see the police actually nab perpetrators of petty crimes against tourists such as theft, something that would not likely happen if the victim were a poor Thai.

The Thais do want to encourage the tourist trade and the local constabularies, with their most excellent connections to the more criminal elements, make efforts to keep the locals petty criminals away from the major tourist zones. Of course this has no impact on what is euphemistically called "white collar" crimes against tourists such as gems scams. But the majority of foreigners stay within the tourist zones and without knowing it are given a small amount of protective shielding.

[LaoPo]

I wonder...is the life of a -white- farang more important to discuss about than the life of a Thai...or 6 Thai, or a Japanese girl?

In this topic a Canadian boy was shot and killed and a Canadian girl shot and wounded, leaving numerous questions, discussed in more than 1.000 posts now.

In a topic about the brutal killing of three Thai policemen -all shot and killed- and the three killer(s) shot and killed a few days later (6 people dead!) there are no more than 31 posts:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=161440

In a topic, started Nov. 26, the brutal killing of Japanese girl in Sukhotai was reported; it reached 331 posts and discussed over a period of some 5/6 weeks...than silence.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=155471

What's more important....?

1. a farang killed by a policeman (off duty and no uniform) and a girl wounded and escaped from death...

2. three policemen killed and their three killers later killed as well....

3. A Japanese girl murdered by unknown person (so far)

All these killings occurred within a time frame of 6 weeks.

I don't know...but it seems #1 is most important, to Thaivisa members that is...

is it ?

LaoPo

Edited January 14, 2008 by LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

I wonder...is the life of a -white- farang more important to discuss about than the life of a Thai...or 6 Thai, or a Japanese girl?

In this topic a Canadian boy was shot and killed and a Canadian girl shot and wounded, leaving numerous questions, discussed in more than 1.000 posts now.

In a topic about the brutal killing of three Thai policemen -all shot and killed- and the three killer(s) shot and killed a few days later (6 people dead!) there are no more than 31 posts:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=161440

In a topic, started Nov. 26, the brutal killing of Japanese girl in Sukhotai was reported; it reached 331 posts and discussed over a period of some 5/6 weeks...than silence.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=155471

What's more important....?

1. a farang killed by a policeman (off duty and no uniform) and a girl wounded and escaped from death...

2. three policemen killed and their three killers later killed as well....

3. A Japanese girl murdered by unknown person (so far)

All these killings occurred within a time frame of 6 weeks.

I don't know...but it seems #1 is most important, to Thaivisa members that is...

is it ?

LaoPo

I think people respond to news accounts and anecdotal postings. I haven't read all of the posts involving the unfortunate Japanese girl, but I don't recall anyone offering new information, other than what news stories conveyed.

In the case of the Thai policemen and their killers, I think evreyone thinks they know what happened, if that perception is true or not I don't know.

As for the couple in Pai, there is just a lot more information available, together with personal anecdotes concerning all parties involved. A lot of the accounts are contradictory and that makes for greater debate. I don't see any racial or nationalistic bias myself.

[kat]

Excuse me, are people supposed to feel shamed for discussing what has the most relevance for them in Thailand? There are many horrible things happening all over the world right now. Should we drop all interests in deference of those?

You need a couple of reference points:

1. This current case of Reisig and Del Pinto is most likely drawing a large majority of posters from outside of Thailand, including Canada, and is very controversial as it concerns a representative of the state - a cop - and tourists. That is relevant to a lot of folks, me thinks.

2. The three policemen killed are a local case, very interesting from a criminal justice view point, and was concluded with the body of suspects being found somewhere. What more is there to discuss, things that we already know?

3. The story of the Japanese tourist sunk out of sight, with no mention of it in either Japan or Thailand. The story was killed somewhere from above, not from lack of interest on the part of posters.

[LaoPo]

It will be interesting to see what more/else can be discussed after more than 1.000 posts and the final outcome of this tragic killing/shooting.

Sometimes a look in the mirror hurts; for all of us.

LaoPo

[kat]

But, we don't know what the final outcome is yet, LP.

[DamianMavis]

Ya its kind of silly comparing the 3 cases and wondering why one is discussed more than others. If the JAPANESE girl case was dealing with an english speaking victim I bet there would be alot more posts from for example... THE JAPANESE haha, but this is an english forum. Im sure on a Japanese forum all in Japanese the debate reached a higher post count.

The police killings is pretty straight forward, 3 cops killed, 3 culprits executed although unproven but obvious, also Thai people wont post here either.

The Canadian case is full of opposing witness accounts, great stuff for a debate and it is about Western victims so attracts alot of english speaking posters to an english site.

Damian

[Maestro]

...And to your third and fourth questions...

Whose questions? What questions? You were quoting 39 lines from four posts of two other members and a post of your own and I could not find the third and fourth quesions to which you refer.

--

Maestro

[sabaijai]

Some news from Pai.

1. It has been confirmed by police, and corroborated by two civilian witnesses willing to go on record, that on the previous occasion where Carly Reisig struck local police, she had been fighting with her former Thai boyfriend, Nui.

According to the owner of Be-Bop, the fight began inside his bar around midnight. He called the police, who arrived and asked the couple to leave the bar. Carly pushed one of the officers and kneed another, according to the owner and another witness, a local Thai musician (who she also struck, during the melee). The police then escorted Carly and Nui outside to cool off. Outside between Be-Bop and Grooveyard, they continued screaming at each other according to an American resident of Pai who was outside when the events took place. Police arrested the couple and took them to the station for drug tests. The tests were negative and the couple was released shortly thereafter, uncharged. According to the police, and to eyewitnesses at the station that night, the police asked them both to leave town and never come back. They left town and Nui never came back. Reisig soon returned.

2. There is one witness from Daeng's claiming that Feun (Reisig's current boyfriend) started the fight that resulted in Sgt Maj Uthai's approach. This witness is willing to go on record and be named, and has no apparent connection to the police.

3. A Canadian journalist here (now in BKK) told one of the editors of the Pai Post that the police allowed him to handle the policeman's pistol, which had already been dusted for prints and remanded as evidence. He said it was a double-action semi-automatic fitted with a hair trigger.

4. So far none of the foreign journalists who have come to Pai to follow this story have stayed longer than one night.

[sabaijai]

Well, now I have serious problems with Dechawiwit's statement during the reenactment of the crime. He fired three shots at the Canadians while he was falling down? Three shots that hit the victims in the "five ring"? Are you kidding me? I can't believe he was stupid enough to make that statement. He should have stuck to his original story that he was struggling with Del Pinto over control of the gun and that it went off accidentally. But here is the problem with his statement that he fired three shots while falling down...it doesn't correspond to the wound pattern on Del Pinto. He was shot in the mouth and the bullet exited behind the left shoulder. If he fired the three rounds while falling down, the round that hit Del Pinto in the mouth would have continued on an upward trajectory and should have exited in the lower part of the back of the skull. This proves he is lying. To have the bullet exit behind the left shoulder, Dechawiwit would have had to have been above Del Pinto or Del Pinto would have had to have been lunging down in close proximity to the officer. The Thai cop just hung himself.

Good work and you are clearly right. But I fear this evidence could be easily ignored by the public prosecutor (another notoriously corrupt department in Thailand), who would have very little interest in winning this case, and or the court. The suspect can also change his story to make a better match with the evidence and just say he was confused as a result of the severe beating he got from the two Canadians and apparently from the Thai boyfriend whom the police now say also joined in the attack on the suspect.

The victims are not going to have expensive lawyers shadowing the prosecution, as happened in the case of the gynaecologist with influential family and friends who chopped his wife into pieces and flushed her down the can in two different locations. In that case the lower court acquitted on the grounds that, even though witnesses testified that the suspect had flushed the toilet continuously for hours in both places and DNA matches on many bits of flesh and bone were made in both cess pools, the lack of a complete body meant that there was no evidence that the victim was actually dead! The victim's father also had friends and money and he later won a civil case against the suspect which presented the evidence so well that the public prosecutor was shamed into appealing and eventually secured a conviction and death sentence - recently commuted to life.

The Canadian victims' families clearly don't have high level connections in Thailand or a lot of money. Reisig's family is worrying about how to pay her hospital bills and no one has flown out to give her support. I raise all these examples to emphasise the fact that the entire justice system is totally corrupt in Thailand and that poor people without inflential connections cannot expect anything approaching what Westerners consider justice when they come up against the powerful. There are only a handful of institutions more powerful than the police.

Arkady, I have to disagree with you. The justice system in Thailand is not totally corrupt. However, there are people in the justice system at all levels that are corrupt. The key to this case will be the international profile that the media and the Canadian embassy can generate to put the Thai criminal justice system under the microscope.

If you have read some of my earlier posts, it is not uncommon for police departments to try to cover up the transgressions of their members. It happens in every country around the world. In my career of investigating more than 30 police-related shootings, I was subjected to a tremendous amount of pressure to exhonerate an officer. My partner and I, who had a combined 30 years of experience in homicide investigations, refused to bow under to this pressure. We followed the evidence.

I have trained more than 200 investigators with the Royal Thai Police and I know from experience that many of them have the same dedication to truth and justice that I had in my 20 years of police work. Don't sell all Thai cops short. Some of them are excellent and they deserve all the support we can give them.

While I don't have your professional experience working with Thai police, my scattered encounters with police here over the last 30 years suggests that some officers are very honest and dedicated, others are mostly in it for the perks and let ethics fall by the wayside when it benefits them.

[kat]

...And to your third and fourth questions...

Whose questions? What questions? You were quoting 39 lines from four posts of two other members and a post of your own and I could not find the third and fourth quesions to which you refer.

--

Maestro

I was addressing the last points in the post directly above mine, in the post that you quoted. It's really not that hard to follow, and many have been using that pattern all over this forum since I've been posting here. In deference to the points about cutting down nested quotes, I tried to do so for this post, by quoting only the relevant material to answer your question. However, after cleaning up the nested posts the quote function didn't allow me to post. It was also not immediately clear which quote of mine you were quoting, which made searching for it a bit more difficult. If you want to address my actual arguments in the post please feel free.

[Claymore]

Claymore

Andrew Drummond has pointed out that most locals in Pai are scared to give evidence against the police and compared this to a similar situation in Kanchanaburi.

No doubt he will change his mind when he sees the waiter and Sabaijai's off duty policeman on the prosecution witness list.

Barryman

A malicious misquote? I don't think so. How bout an accurate paraphrase of the following quote Drummond gave Canada's CBC: "There are witnesses in Pai today saying, 'No, it wasn't the policeman who struck the first blow. It was Carly, that Carly and Leo were having a fight in the street and the policeman was summoned to calm them down and Carly attacked him.' "Of course you have to take this all with a little bit of a pinch of salt. Nobody in Pai is going to give evidence against their local policeman," said Drummond, explaining that residents are afraid of the local police.

Doesn't that in effect suggest that the locals in Pai lack credibility? Of course it does and it has been proven wrong by the accounts given by locals who went ON THE RECORD as saying that the cop had been drunk that night. END QUOTE

NO IT DOES NOT. It merely Drummond states that no locals in Pai are going to go and give evidence against Sergeant Uthai in a criminal court. Mr Barryman you find one and then I shall give you a little credibility. An ON THE RECORD quote to a provincial newspaper in Canada is hardly going to have any impact in Thailand, save for public knowledge purposes.

Evidence is the crucial word here, not the second and third hand accounts of Mr. Sabaijai who does not appear to know there are journalists still in Pai and is now telling us with som authority 'The Pai Post' that the policeman's gun had a hair trigger

[farang prince]

Am I correct in assuming that cops in the US and probably elsewhere are on the job 24/7 too?

Short answer, yes. Search about regulations police firearms to see the ongoing debate about this element. but a police officer is in principal never off duty.

Regards

PS No I'm not one, nor a former one.

In the United States, police officers are sworn to uphold the law 24/7. There are, however, some variables to this requirement. Most departments will not allow their off-duty officers to take a concealed handgun into a bar. And if the officers have been drinking alcohol, they are advised in their department's rules and regulations that their actions will be held accountable. It is just common sense that drunk police officers take on a lot of personal liability if they try to enforce the law and something goes wrong. However, common sense often goes out the window after a few drinks and more than a few good police officers have found themselves out of a job after doing something stupid while drinking off-duty.

Significantly, while officers are supposed to uphold the law 24/7, they are not required to be armed...just that being unarmed does not preclude their responsibility to enforcing the law.

P.S. I've held various positions in the U.S. criminal justice system for 23 years and continue to provide training and consulting services to law enforcement agencies world-wide.

[permanent_disorder]

How bout an accurate paraphrase of the following quote Drummond gave Canada's CBC: "There are witnesses in Pai today saying, 'No, it wasn't the policeman who struck the first blow. It was Carly, that Carly and Leo were having a fight in the street and the policeman was summoned to calm them down and Carly attacked him.' "Of course you have to take this all with a little bit of a pinch of salt. Nobody in Pai is going to give evidence against their local policeman," said Drummond, explaining that residents are afraid of the local police.

Doesn't that in effect suggest that the locals in Pai lack credibility? Of course it does and it has been proven wrong by the accounts given by locals who went ON THE RECORD as saying that the cop had been drunk that night. Drummond has been playing the role of judge and jury from the get-go and quotes like the above, baseless, are highly prejudicial. I take back nothing of what I wrote. I don't think the comparisons with Kanchanaburi are sound based on the evidence that has surfaced thus far, but he made the connection immediately and said it had all the markings of a 'face-saving' killing before he had any of the facts.

Shame to see this thread devolve once again into the tired "Police would never convict one of their own", especially after Stephen Cleary clearly pointed out the fact that they do so all the time.

yep, so it is. and as i said before Drummond gives as not a well balanced report. it's the opposite.

now Drummond feel even sorry that he reveal a little bit more details on the female victim, that she was and is a troublemaker an so on.

but where and when can we get a non prejudicial view on the police man? instead of stereotyping him (all thai police are corrupt and kill without feel remorseful) give him a human face, is he lovely family man, teach also the other kids in his soi how to obey the traffic laws or is he a ruthless person and have a history of misbehave? if we shed light on this then we have another piece of the puzzle what happend that night.

some examples how thai police had act in other cases proves nothing here.

the chiang mai crossroad, somchai from kanchanaburi, or the owner from a bar in front of landmark hotel do nothing after a falang was killed because he had not paid the bill of some other falang, as damian told us, as he hear it somewhere from some other body. that a singular cases, with different circumstances. same as all the other cases you hear somewhere on a bar. proves nothing here. a lot is just popular rumor, lure a lot of people in the false presumption they would know a lot of whats going on in thailand and understand the society here.

generally speaking:

few of you tend to ubersimplify matters, stereotyping. and misinterpreting the things they see here, because you mind dominated by a western view, stating it is here less develop, less morally and see everywhere a lack of of a insufficiency or a hidden fault (of a western value of course). the western concepts not apply universal. you way of thinking and made up your mind is based on a long history, including the old greek philosphers and christianity and this maybe even determined by the climate. but here they march to the beat of a complete different drummer. the appearance, the outside maybe looks very similar but the inner mechanic of asian or thai society and also for the individual is very different. and there is not superior or inferior just difference. realise that first and then you can start to learn to understand.

[kat]

but where and when can we get a non prejudicial view on the police man? instead of stereotyping him (all thai police are corrupt and kill without feel remorseful) give him a human face, is he lovely family man, teach also the other kids in his soi how to obey the traffic laws or is he a ruthless person and have a history of misbehave? if we shed light on this then we have another piece of the puzzle what happend that night.

No, his personal life and whether or not he is a family man who teaches kids traffic lessons in his soi has absolutely no bearing on this case whatsoever, unless we are talking about the Thai criminal justice system. His personal life is only important at the point in which it intersects with this case: was he drunk, is he often drunk, and has he made bad judgment calls with a weapon before as an on-duty and off-duty cop.

The only reason why history would be important is to ascertain whether or not they are lying in their current accounts, and we can tell from both accounts that there is shifting going on from all sides.

[Maestro]

... It was also not immediately clear which quote of mine you were quoting, which made searching for it a bit more difficult.

This would really be a question for the Forum support desk but since the advisability of keeping quoted text to a minimum has been brought up in this thread – justifiably so – I shall answer it here:

In the title bar of the quoted posts, to the right of the time stamp, is a little brown back-arrow. Clicking on it brings you to the quoted post. When you’re done with that, click on the back-arrow of your browser, which is usually located in the top right of your screen, in the browser’s tool bar and you are right back to where you were before.

...I tried to do so for this post, by quoting only the relevant material to answer your question. However, after cleaning up the nested posts the quote function didn't allow me to post.

It is true that it gets a little messy when nested quotes are involved and it needs some practice. If you need help, please don’t hesitate to ask for it in the Forum support desk.

--

Maestro

[thaiman]

Why are people so upset about this incident? This is Thailand, the land of craziness. What else can you expect from this place: Justice? Fairness? Equality? I can't see that ever happening here!

[Chung noi]

Why are people so upset about this incident? This is Thailand, the land of craziness. What else can you expect from this place: Justice? Fairness? Equality? I can't see that ever happening here!

But in Pai?...I thought Pai was the most farang loving village in Thailand. Any idea how many Farang tourists get hurt up there each year.....I never seen one fight the week I was there. Everyone was really nice to us and had a really great time. However, with the amount of drinking on the street I can see how it could happen. Anyone know if the VW bus/bar still in business?

I love Pai and the Thai highlands.

*j*

[farang prince]

Why are people so upset about this incident? This is Thailand, the land of craziness. What else can you expect from this place: Justice? Fairness? Equality? I can't see that ever happening here!

One of the more amazing posts I have read on TV.

[permanent_disorder]

After all the speculation on the 'details' the following are the basic facts.

An armed cop shot 2 unarmed people. The 2nd person shot was a female. The cop ran away.

The 'official' version has more holes in it than the people shot.

Pathetic little man, I hope he gets his punishment but I doubt anything will happen in the long run.

Only if you see everything in black and white, with no shades of grey. However no court system would see it this simply, even in Thailand. There's a substantial list of investigative procedures, situational factors, intent, etc to be examined ... if you believe in justice.

how about:

2 foreigners, strangers, a face tattoo woman, with a criminal record and arrested for attacking police officers in the younger past (facts we know from herself) and a questional status as 'tourist' (not the typical 7 day tourist but long time here and different "boyfriends", no WP, an illegal profession anyway.) and her ex-boyfriend, a drug taking and to much alcohol drinking fan of aggressive music with dreadlooks and tattoos all over his body (facts we know when we see at the pictures) and a questional status as 'tourist' (brother in law said: he works in a tattoo shop. WP?) have a night out together, be very drunk. it's the days of nationwide mourning because kings sister died and she even painted here face red. we can take it as a fact that they disrespect the local culture deeply and not obey the unwritten law of social behavior. they are in company of the new 'boyfriend' of the woman, a local. all we seems to know about him is that he is an "artist". (who knows what that means, maybe just that he have no proper job and is not a pillar of the society) and he also had a problem with the police before.

the three met a local law enforcement officer (we know not much about him, local eyewitness can not be trusted, what his colleagues have done bad is no evidence against him).

now its unclear what happen, we know the results, but not how it come to that. for sure, there was a fight between them, both side talking about it. both side talking also that they were wrestling about the gun from the police officer.

so we don't know why and how the fight about the gun starts, there a lot of speculations. cut that speculations out and following the basic facts:

a local law enforcement officer met 3 civilian people,

two foreigners and one residents. one is a drug user and drunkard (was before seen walking and yelling with beer bottles in the hand on bright daylight on a public street), the other one is know for starting pub brawls with cops the third a local. somehow they start fighting about the cops gun. 3 shots where fired. 1 foreigner dead, the other wounded. having his weapon secure in his hand, the police man run away and seeking custody from his other law enforcement officers.

if the shots were accidently given or targeted with the intention to kill is just speculation. but the facts is only one person is dead, the otherone still alive and talkative and the third didn't catch a bullet at all. so if the police man is a 'killer', why he run away instead of finishing his job? only 3 bullets in his gun or had he just done what he should have done if he is out numbered and the situation gets or is out of control. move away and seek support?

it's all speculation.

pathetic little armchair detectives/judges we are.

pictures below can be viewed by everyone in the facebook profil of mr. del pinto. they are for public viewing

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=564505599

you can have a view on his life, he listen to music by bands called 'suicidal tendencies' and 'death by stereo'. he draw a graffitti "clap your hand & say die" and posted this small gif on his profil. he is also interessted in buddhism and have some kind of daily Buddha Quotes and Teachings application. yesterdays quote have been "I spit on my life. "

there a lot more pictures, taken by his friends, and a lot of them involving drinking alcohol. taken by different persons on different occasions, so we have a continuance.

i think this pictures proves nothing but only that you can not draw black and white pictures.

and you can continue to write stories about how corrupt the thai police is, damian can tell us once more, that all local eye wittnesses are bribable and will lie like isaan hookers and in how much danger we face here in thailand and that the others must be blind if they don't hear or see all the bullets surround them. and that mr. drummond the only quality journalist. and you can call everybody who have second thoughts on your stories: the rose-coloured glasses thai apologist brigade.

and so on. but i will not really help to find out what happend in pai that night.

[LoveDaBlues]

After all your speculation lol the following is STILL fact. If you choose to call facts black & white then okay.

An armed cop shot 2 unarmed people. The 2nd person shot was a female. The cop ran away.

enough said

[kat]

... and you can call everybody who have second thoughts on your stories: the rose-coloured glasses thai apologist brigade.

and so on. but i will not really help to find out what happend in pai that night.

Your entire post is speculation, except for the fact that we all know, which is that two people were shot and one is dead. The rest are your own non-factual judgments. And the drunk cop? Miraculously, we know even less about him than when the story broke. Big surprise.