Australian Aged Pension

[KhunHeineken]

8 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Many of us do have property, shares, businesses and  trusts etc in Oz, however no tax change will "force" me to sell. 

Mind you with the increase in property prices rising in some areas where I have property, that may CONVINCE to me sell, after advice form my advisors

 

So you will accept the loss of extra money in the form of a bigger tax bill.  That is one way to deal with it. 

 

At least you are considering your options, and that's one form of a Plan B. 

 

I have considered this also, but would rather sell and move the money offshore and pay no tax.  In the ATO's grab for more from me, they might end up getting zero.    

[Will27]

15 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Please post a link to what you have read.

 

I am not saying pensioners would be targeted.  I am saying they will be scooped up in the 183 day net, along with every other Australian who is overseas 183 day of the year.

 

If you read it, you can link it.

 

As you honestly admit, it's all your own opinion.

 

I, and others, have posted links to the proposed tax changes.

 

In my opinion, the 183 day rule is cause for some concern.  If you are not at all concerned, that great, however, something more than "they would never do it" would be needed to alleviate my concern.

 

Some on this forum think the poor old expat pensioner will be untouched.  I hope that is right, but I would not be surprised if it turns out not to be the case.

 

As I have said, several times, they would not be targeting pensioners, just scooping them up in the 183 day net.  There is a difference.

 

They could have an income threshold, but I have yet to see that proposed.

 

Again, I, and others, have posted links to the proposed changes.   That's all we know at this time.   

 

Good point.  That's my error.  Once deemed a non-resident for tax purposes, I believe tax is paid from dollar number one, but I could be wrong on this.  

Mate, stop asking me to post a link.

I've told you SEVERAL times it is my opinion based on what I have read and think about the law.

 

You have posted no links to laws either.

Only a piece about proposed changes.

 

As you say, they might not "target" pensioners but a lot would be affected by the law you think

will be implemented, so I'm sure that will be taken into account.

 

If the law was implemented, it would be an easy fix to exempt Centrelink payments.

 

There is no threshold as a non-resident o the $18 500 figure you quoted is meaningless.

 

I don't need to post or say anything to alleviate your concerns.

You're like a dog with a bone about this, but that's your opinion.

I have a different one, move on.

 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Delete

Edited March 17, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[RJRS1301]

5 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

So you will accept the loss of extra money in the form of a bigger tax bill.  That is one way to deal with it. 

 

At least you are considering your options, and that's one form of a Plan B. 

 

I have considered this also, but would rather sell and move the money offshore and pay no tax.  In the ATO's grab for more from me, they might end up getting zero.    

I have no problem paying my taxation obligation on my investments. I pay for infrastructure for the communities from which I have and continue to benefit from, when I return home for a visit. 

 

I do not see tax as a "grab" although I receive not benefits from the tax when I am overseas, or indeed directly, except road, airports ect.

 

I shall reassess if and when any relevant legislation is enacted, consider the advice given from advisors

 

 

[Seeall]

bunch of C..... hate them

[giddyup]

I need to get a form from my pension provider (CSC) signed by one of the following people listed. What is my best option here in Thailand?

This form must be signed in the presence of, and witnessed by, one of the following:
• a legal practitioner enrolled at a supreme court or the High Court of Australia
• a judge or magistrate of a court
• a chief executive officer of a Commonwealth court
• a registrar or deputy registrar of a court
• a Justice of the Peace (JP)
• a notary public
• a police officer
• an agent or a permanent employee of the Australian Postal Corporation with two or more years of continuous
service in an office supplying postal services to the public
• an Australian consular officer or an Australian diplomatic officer
• a finance company officer with two or more years of continuous service with one or more finance companies
• a person employed by, or an authorised representative, of the holder of an Australian financial services licence with
two or more continuous years of service
• a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Australia (ICA), Certified Practicing Accountants (CPA) or National
Institute of Chartered Accountants (NIA) with two or more years of continuous membership.

[DaLa]

7 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I need to get a form from my pension provider (CSC) signed by one of the following people listed. What is my best option here in Thailand?

This form must be signed in the presence of, and witnessed by, one of the following:
• a legal practitioner enrolled at a supreme court or the High Court of Australia
• a judge or magistrate of a court
• a chief executive officer of a Commonwealth court
• a registrar or deputy registrar of a court
• a Justice of the Peace (JP)
• a notary public
• a police officer
• an agent or a permanent employee of the Australian Postal Corporation with two or more years of continuous
service in an office supplying postal services to the public
• an Australian consular officer or an Australian diplomatic officer
• a finance company officer with two or more years of continuous service with one or more finance companies
• a person employed by, or an authorised representative, of the holder of an Australian financial services licence with
two or more continuous years of service
• a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Australia (ICA), Certified Practicing Accountants (CPA) or National
Institute of Chartered Accountants (NIA) with two or more years of continuous membership.

Plenty of Police Officers here. Just stop on the expressway in Bangkok when you see one directing traffic and drop him a couple of hundred baht. Seriously though it appears from your list that they insist on an Australian in one of the professions; the only one on there that may be available here is at The Australian Embassy in Lumphini Bangkok. 

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, DaLa said:

Plenty of Police Officers here. Just stop on the expressway in Bangkok when you see one directing traffic and drop him a couple of hundred baht. Seriously though it appears from your list that they insist on an Australian in one of the professions; the only one on there that may be available here is at The Australian Embassy in Lumphini Bangkok. 

Yeah, but I'm 80 and not really well enough to be making the journey from Pattaya to Bangkok. I have emailed the pension provider and asked for another option.

[RJRS1301]

28 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I need to get a form from my pension provider (CSC) signed by one of the following people listed. What is my best option here in Thailand?

This form must be signed in the presence of, and witnessed by, one of the following:
• a legal practitioner enrolled at a supreme court or the High Court of Australia
• a judge or magistrate of a court
• a chief executive officer of a Commonwealth court
• a registrar or deputy registrar of a court
• a Justice of the Peace (JP)
• a notary public
• a police officer
• an agent or a permanent employee of the Australian Postal Corporation with two or more years of continuous
service in an office supplying postal services to the public
• an Australian consular officer or an Australian diplomatic officer
• a finance company officer with two or more years of continuous service with one or more finance companies
• a person employed by, or an authorised representative, of the holder of an Australian financial services licence with
two or more continuous years of service
• a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Australia (ICA), Certified Practicing Accountants (CPA) or National
Institute of Chartered Accountants (NIA) with two or more years of continuous membership.

 

The Embassy may be able to sign an electronic version of the form and return to you, ring them and explain the situation.

 

 

How do I contact the Australian Embassy?

 

 

If we haven't declared a crisis but you still need consular assistance, contact the closest Australian Embassy or Consulate, or the 24-hour Consular Emergency Centre on +61 2 6261 3305 from anywhere in the world.23 Nov 2021

[Lacessit]

I'd suggest contacting Ronald Elliott, the Honorary Consul in Chiang Mai. I am fairly sure he is able to witness documents. His phone number is 09 185 76996, use Google to find his address. I seem to remember he had some directions posted.

Oops, sorry. Thought you were in Chiang Mai.

You should be able to find a notary public in Pattaya.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Lacessit

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/17/2022 at 2:13 PM, Will27 said:

Mate, stop asking me to post a link.

I've told you SEVERAL times it is my opinion based on what I have read and think about the law.

 

You have posted no links to laws either.

Only a piece about proposed changes.

 

As you say, they might not "target" pensioners but a lot would be affected by the law you think

will be implemented, so I'm sure that will be taken into account.

 

If the law was implemented, it would be an easy fix to exempt Centrelink payments.

 

There is no threshold as a non-resident o the $18 500 figure you quoted is meaningless.

 

I don't need to post or say anything to alleviate your concerns.

You're like a dog with a bone about this, but that's your opinion.

I have a different one, move on.

 

 

 

Time will tell on this one.  Perhaps we will know later in 2022.  

 

Even if they exempt Centerlink payments, should these new tax laws be implemented, that's a concern for self funded Aussie retirees in Thailand.

 

As I said in another post, with compulsory superannuation being around for decades, as those people who have paid in all their working life approach retirement, they will not qualify for Centerlink anyway. 

 

I did some rough math on it in another post.  Even the average Aussie worker will have, from memory, around $300,000AUD in superannuation at retirement age.  I can't see the government giving Centerlink payments to someone with $300,000 in the bank, but that's for another thread. 

 

My point being, in the future, and that's not next year, but 10 years or so from now, less and less retirees will qualify for a Centerlink payment upon retirement.  This was one of the main reasons compulsory superannuation was brought it, to force people to save for their retirement, and take them off welfare in their old age.  A Centerlink pension is only one part of this issue, and those on it will diminish in numbers over time, so these proposed tax changes really will be targeting expat retirees with an income, or income generating assets.  

 

I corrected myself with the $18,500 threshold.  

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/17/2022 at 7:50 PM, RJRS1301 said:

I have no problem paying my taxation obligation on my investments. I pay for infrastructure for the communities from which I have and continue to benefit from, when I return home for a visit. 

 

I do not see tax as a "grab" although I receive not benefits from the tax when I am overseas, or indeed directly, except road, airports ect.

 

I shall reassess if and when any relevant legislation is enacted, consider the advice given from advisors

 

 

 

I pay tax in Australia as well.  I am self funded.  I do not receive anything from Centerlink.

 

I would not be happy receiving a significantly larger tax bill, simply because of my geographic location in retirement.

 

I will also reassess my position if, or when, these changes come in, but I am already planning for best and worse case scenario.  

[Olmate]

$250.aud  pension sweetener pre Oz election payment in my bank today. Thanks Scott.???? 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Olmate said:

$250.aud  pension sweetener pre Oz election payment in my bank today. Thanks Scott.???? 

Are you in Australia? If Centrelink decides you are living overseas, no chance.

Also no chance I would vote for ScoMo, the guy's as good a leader as I am good at neurosurgery. Greatest blameshifter who ever made it to PM.

[Olmate]

40 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Are you in Australia? If Centrelink decides you are living overseas, no chance.

Also no chance I would vote for ScoMo, the guy's as good a leader as I am good at neurosurgery. Greatest blameshifter who ever made it to PM.

No not in Aus, Im sure Clink know too but I got both  750 prev. covid payments as well. Paulines Party will get my *vote"! 

[Lacessit]

40 minutes ago, Olmate said:

No not in Aus, Im sure Clink know too but I got both  750 prev. covid payments as well. Paulines Party will get my *vote"! 

Then you are still classed as resident in Australia. Centrelink do know you are out of the country, they share data with Border Farce.

I was informed about 3 years ago by Centrelink I was considered to be non-resident. Verbally, I have yet to see one shred of written information that explains or justifies their decision.

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Then you are still classed as resident in Australia. Centrelink do know you are out of the country, they share data with Border Farce.

I was informed about 3 years ago by Centrelink I was considered to be non-resident. Verbally, I have yet to see one shred of written information that explains or justifies their decision.

 

I'm out of OZ, my address has been recorded in MyGov C'link as offshore, for some time, and my 4 weekly payments are transferred automatically to my bank here in Thailand.

 

I got an electronic letter (in my online MyGov C'link account) yesterday evening from C'link advising they had deposited the AUD250- sweetener to my bank account, with the usual comment 'will take 2 or 3 days to appear in your local bank account' etc. (Same with the 2 previous AUD750- Covid- 19 assistance payments.)

 

The AUD250- will probably appear in my Thai bank account later today. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by scorecard

[Will27]

23 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Then you are still classed as resident in Australia. Centrelink do know you are out of the country, they share data with Border Farce.

I was informed about 3 years ago by Centrelink I was considered to be non-resident. Verbally, I have yet to see one shred of written information that explains or justifies their decision.

 

I don't know if you receive any government pensions, but their residency tests look pretty similar to the ATO's.

 

How we decide

When we're deciding whether you live in Australia, we’ll look at all of the following:

• where you live and who you live with
• if you have family in Australia or overseas
• your employment, business or financial ties in Australia and overseas
• your assets in Australia and overseas
• how often and how long you travel outside Australia
• anything else we think is relevant.

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I don't know if you receive any government pensions, but their residency tests look pretty similar to the ATO's.

 

How we decide

When we're deciding whether you live in Australia, we’ll look at all of the following:

• where you live and who you live with
• if you have family in Australia or overseas
• your employment, business or financial ties in Australia and overseas
• your assets in Australia and overseas
• how often and how long you travel outside Australia
• anything else we think is relevant.

Not sure how they factor covid into those tests nowadays. Many Australians, like myself, couldn't return to home for 2-3 years, even if we wanted to.

There must be some sort of relaxation for time out of country, set up house etc.

[Will27]

13 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Not sure how they factor covid into those tests nowadays. Many Australians, like myself, couldn't return to home for 2-3 years, even if we wanted to.

There must be some sort of relaxation for time out of country, set up house etc.

That (Covid) might come under the "Anything else we think is relevant" part.

 

Having said that, I don't think it's that hard to establish residency for their purposes.

I don't know if it has any implications for pensioners, especially if you have portability, unlike

the ATO residency.

[Lacessit]

32 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I don't know if you receive any government pensions, but their residency tests look pretty similar to the ATO's.

 

How we decide

When we're deciding whether you live in Australia, we’ll look at all of the following:

• where you live and who you live with
• if you have family in Australia or overseas
• your employment, business or financial ties in Australia and overseas
• your assets in Australia and overseas
• how often and how long you travel outside Australia
• anything else we think is relevant.

It depends on which test is applied. IMO Centrelink applied the 183 day rule, so far the ATO has not.

I understand there is legislation projected that  will eliminate all other criteria, and simply base everything on the 183 dau rule. Ironic, seeing the government banned Australians from returning to their own country for an extended period.

My only remaining interest in Australia is whether the ATO starts taxing my age pension at 32.5%. I wouldn't put it past the b####rds. I don't have the platoons of lawyers Murdoch has.

 

[tlcwaterfall]

Current issues and changes to individual tax residency rules (holdingredlich.com)

[giddyup]

Am I an Australian resident for tax purposes or not? I have lived in Thailand for 12 years, only have a bank account in Australia, no property or address there, and my income derived from Super and Centrelink is under the tax threshold, but now my bank in Australia wants to know details.

[Peterw42]

47 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Am I an Australian resident for tax purposes or not? I have lived in Thailand for 12 years, only have a bank account in Australia, no property or address there, and my income derived from Super and Centrelink is under the tax threshold, but now my bank in Australia wants to know details.

The ATO has a page that you can answer several questions and they determine if you are tax resident.

[giddyup]

7 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The ATO has a page that you can answer several questions and they determine if you are tax resident.

Thanks, looks like I am still a resident.

[KhunHeineken]

On 4/29/2022 at 12:51 PM, Peterw42 said:

The ATO has a page that you can answer several questions and they determine if you are tax resident.

That may soon be changing so a very simple question:  "Have you been outside of Australia for 183 day in the last calendar / financial year?"

 

If yes, you are a non resident.  If no, you are a resident.

 

 

[scorecard]

8 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

That may soon be changing so a very simple question:  "Have you been outside of Australia for 183 day in the last calendar / financial year?"

 

If yes, you are a non resident.  If no, you are a resident.

 

 

You say "that may soon be changing ......."

 

Can you please share the source of your post. Thanks.

[giddyup]

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

That may soon be changing so a very simple question:  "Have you been outside of Australia for 183 day in the last calendar / financial year?"

 

If yes, you are a non resident.  If no, you are a resident.

 

 

Might be time to transfer all bank funds out of Australia.

[Peterw42]

28 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

That may soon be changing so a very simple question:  "Have you been outside of Australia for 183 day in the last calendar / financial year?"

 

If yes, you are a non resident.  If no, you are a resident.

 

 

I think you may be confusing centerlink pension resident and ATO tax resident. The 183 day is to do with pensions, not tax resident. I haven't been back for 3 years, but ATO test still says I am a tax resident.

[Peterw42]

31 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

That may soon be changing so a very simple question:  "Have you been outside of Australia for 183 day in the last calendar / financial year?"

 

If yes, you are a non resident.  If no, you are a resident.

 

 

I think you may be confusing centerlink pension resident and ATO tax resident. The 183 day is to do with pensions, not tax resident. I haven't been back for 3 years, but ATO test still says I am a tax resident.