Australian Aged Pension

[RJRS1301]

7 minutes ago, Nemises said:

^ For example... an eligible aged person returns to Australia to live permanently. He does his “2 years home detention” and then applies for the aged pension. He has no assets, no super, no income. All he has is cash in his bank account. The question is: How far back will Centrelink scrutinise his bank account to make sure old mate hasn’t withdrawn a fortune of cash leading up to him making his application? 3 months? 3 years? Longer?? (Looking for a link, not guesses... thanks )

 

Centrelink does not have the power to spot check individual's bank accounts. However, it does utilise data-matching with other Government agencies to weed out cases of possible welfare fraud. For example, if you were to provide Centrelink with one set of figures and information, but the ATO with something different, this would be flagged by data-matching software. Centrelink has the power at this point to request details of your accounts from your bank.

If a discrepancy is flagged, the details of your accounts will be sent encrypted in an encrypted form to specialised staff, who will review them. Centrelink does not have the ability to remove funds from your account

Read more: http://dspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/1571#ixzz5zfJFA200

 

How far they choose to go back at that stage has been discussed by an earlier post

[scorecard]

On 9/15/2019 at 12:56 PM, RJRS1301 said:

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/policy/portability-of-australian-income-support-payments#04

 

Suggest you work your way through this

Thank you.

 

 

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, Nemises said:

^ For example... an eligible aged person returns to Australia to live permanently. He does his “2 years home detention” and then applies for the aged pension. He has no assets, no super, no income. All he has is cash in his bank account. The question is: How far back will Centrelink scrutinise his bank account to make sure old mate hasn’t withdrawn a fortune of cash leading up to him making his application? 3 months? 3 years? Longer?? (Looking for a link, not guesses... thanks )

 

Quote.... "He does his “2 years home detention” and then applies for the aged pension."

 

I'm getting ready to do the same thing.

 

My understanding is the person lodges their application quickly / immediately they return to OZ, and Centrelink looks at all of the above fairly quickly (including any funds scrutiny etc,. and then without further delay approves or disapproves and advises the applicant.

 

As opposed to centrelink look at the bank stuff after the '2 years detention' has been completed.

 

Can other members please clarify this point, thanks. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by scorecard

[RJRS1301]

13 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Quote.... "He does his “2 years home detention” and then applies for the aged pension."

 

I'm getting ready to do the same thing.

 

My understanding is the person lodges their application quickly / immediately they return to OZ, and Centrelink looks at all of the above fairly quickly (including any funds scrutiny etc,. and then without further delay approves or disapproves and advises the applicant.

 

As opposed to centrelink look at the bank stuff after the '2 years detention' has been completed.

 

Can other members please clarify this point, thanks. 

It is my understanding that there is now several weeks delay in many instances in assessing the eligibility of applicants for benefits. I do not know long the delay is once relevant information is submitted.

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/age-pension/how-claim

[scorecard]

OK, but:

 

1. Is the assessment to see if the applicant is above or below the assets threshold (including taking into account money in the bank) done after the 2 years re-establishment of a home in Australia is completed (meaning that there is no decision at all as to whether the application give or won't receive the OAP until after the 2 years re-establishment of a home is completed, or

 

- Is the assessment to see if the applicant is above or below the assets threshold (including taking into account money in the bank) done in the initial assessment of the claim (possibly a few weeks) and then the applicant is advised whether they have or not been approved for the OAP.      And if approved pension payments start at the next scheduled national OAP payday (not after the 2 years 'detention' has been completed).  

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

OK, but:

 

1. Is the assessment to see if the applicant is above or below the assets threshold (including taking into account money in the bank) done after the 2 years re-establishment of a home in Australia is completed (meaning that there is no decision at all as to whether the application give or won't receive the OAP until after the 2 years re-establishment of a home is completed, or

 

- Is the assessment to see if the applicant is above or below the assets threshold (including taking into account money in the bank) done in the initial assessment of the claim (possibly a few weeks) and then the applicant is advised whether they have or not been approved for the OAP.      And if approved pension payments start at the next scheduled national OAP payday (not after the 2 years 'detention' has been completed).  

 

Further, is it not true that the decision: yes, no, or what % pension where the person's assets are over the threshold comes fairly quickly and then payments start quickly (how long that initial decision takes seems to range from a few week to a few months).

 

The 2 years factor is a separate issue specifically related to a 2 years requirement to re-establishment of residency (whilst receiving payments) to gain global portability of the payments  (receive pension payments abroad forever and with no further residency requirements).  

 

Is this correct or am I totally confused? 

[Salerno]

8 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Is this correct or am I totally confused? 

Correct. Last I read (which was a while back) they where pretty slow, from memory averaging 2-3 months. Guess that's why you can apply 13 weeks before the eligible date (not much help in your case though ????).

[scorecard]

7 hours ago, Salerno said:

Correct. Last I read (which was a while back) they where pretty slow, from memory averaging 2-3 months. Guess that's why you can apply 13 weeks before the eligible date (not much help in your case though ????).

Ok but it's my understanding that when the OAP is approved (if approved) payment is backdated to the date of lodging the application forms. IS that true?

[RJRS1301]

28 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Ok but it's my understanding that when the OAP is approved (if approved) payment is backdated to the date of lodging the application forms. IS that true?

It is backdated to date of lodgement if you are deemed eligible from that date.

i would suggest you contact Centrelink with a succinct brief document outlining your questions, and get the information first hand. 

Outline your current circumstances and assets

[moojar]

19 hours ago, Nemises said:

^ For example... an eligible aged person returns to Australia to live permanently. He does his “2 years home detention” and then applies for the aged pension. He has no assets, no super, no income. All he has is cash in his bank account. The question is: How far back will Centrelink scrutinise his bank account to make sure old mate hasn’t withdrawn a fortune of cash leading up to him making his application? 3 months? 3 years? Longer?? (Looking for a link, not guesses... thanks )

 

Related to this I'd say:

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/topics/gifting/27276

Quote

Any gifts you made in the past 5 years may count in your assets and income tests

 

All the CL bullsh1t going on now with drug testing, cashless payments and 'robodebt' cutting off people's welfare on hint of cheating, I doubt they take your word for anything on your application form - that might be why it is taking longer to gain approval.  Three months worth of statements sounds a bit ... optimistic. 

 

Googled robodebt and came up with this link - it mentions seven years: https://www.notmydebt.com.au/the-issue  

 

[Nemises]

^ Fantastic moojar. Exactly what I was looking for! 5 years is clearly the answer - as quoted by the Oz Gov in your link and your excerpt.

I also thought that only 3 months worth of statements was way off the mark.

[Tradewind777]

I'm 65 at the end of 2019 and entitled to aged pension end 2020. I am planning to sell my home in Oz end 2019 and intend to get the aged pension portable to Thailand in a year.  I'm a bit confused at the unclear information online on this subject. 

- If I am a resident already (for 35 years), do i need to wait for 2 years from aged pension qualifying age.

- What are the rules about buying another home - overseas.  Is there a time limit I must buy the home.  Do I have to provide proof of purchase of the home overseas.  My concern is, if I end up with $800k from the sale of my home, I will be over the assets test unless i spend the funds on a home.

 

Any information would be helpful.

[RJRS1301]

On 9/17/2019 at 11:49 AM, Nemises said:

^ Fantastic moojar. Exactly what I was looking for! 5 years is clearly the answer - as quoted by the Oz Gov in your link and your excerpt.

I also thought that only 3 months worth of statements was way off the mark.

The three months was what required on lodgement as recently as 2018, done many applications for applicants over many years of welfare support professionally. 

 

[RJRS1301]

5 minutes ago, Tradewind777 said:

I'm 65 at the end of 2019 and entitled to aged pension end 2020. I am planning to sell my home in Oz end 2019 and intend to get the aged pension portable to Thailand in a year.  I'm a bit confused at the unclear information online on this subject. 

- If I am a resident already (for 35 years), do i need to wait for 2 years from aged pension qualifying age.

- What are the rules about buying another home - overseas.  Is there a time limit I must buy the home.  Do I have to provide proof of purchase of the home overseas.  My concern is, if I end up with $800k from the sale of my home, I will be over the assets test unless i spend the funds on a home.

 

Any information would be helpful.

Are you currently living in Australia?

 

[giddyup]

10 minutes ago, Tradewind777 said:

I'm 65 at the end of 2019 and entitled to aged pension end 2020. I am planning to sell my home in Oz end 2019 and intend to get the aged pension portable to Thailand in a year.  I'm a bit confused at the unclear information online on this subject. 

- If I am a resident already (for 35 years), do i need to wait for 2 years from aged pension qualifying age.

- What are the rules about buying another home - overseas.  Is there a time limit I must buy the home.  Do I have to provide proof of purchase of the home overseas.  My concern is, if I end up with $800k from the sale of my home, I will be over the assets test unless i spend the funds on a home.

 

Any information would be helpful.

The pension will be portable as soon as it's been granted. I was living in Australia up until I turned 65 and got the pension, sold up everything and moved to Thailand shortly after. Been receiving the pension regularly for the last 12 years.

[Tradewind777]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

The pension will be portable as soon as it's been granted. I was living in Australia up until I turned 65 and got the pension, sold up everything and moved to Thailand shortly after. Been receiving the pension regularly for the last 12 years.

When you say "Sold up everything", was the amount of your assets after you sold everything more than the assets test limit?  The family home is exempt, but what if I end up with much more cash than allowed under the assets test?  How long have I got to buy a home overseas. What is my burden of proof?  This is my (other) question. 

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, Tradewind777 said:

When you say "Sold up everything", was the amount of your assets after you sold everything more than the assets test limit?  The family home is exempt, but what if I end up with much more cash than allowed under the assets test?  How long have I got to buy a home overseas. What is my burden of proof?  This is my (other) question. 

I told them I was going to spend $150,000 on a home in Thailand, which I did, so that came off the proceeds from selling my house, but I lose pension because of bank interest plus an allocated and super pension as well.

[Nemises]

The pension will be portable as soon as it's been granted. I was living in Australia up until I turned 65 and got the pension, sold up everything and moved to Thailand shortly after. Been receiving the pension regularly for the last 12 years.

Yeah mate. But I think he’s asking how he goes about keeping the pension when he’s got 800 large sitting in his bank after he sells i.e. can he buy a property o/s? If so, How long has he got to buy said overseas property before pension is lost based on his 800k cash assets?

[Tradewind777]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

I told them I was going to spend $150,000 on a home in Thailand, which I did, so that came off the proceeds from selling my house, but I lose pension because of bank interest plus an allocated and super pension as well.

They accepted your declaration on the $150k home purchase without requiring evidence?   This is of interest to me because I intend to buy a home through a complex company structure, so I will not be able to produce a title deed/chanot showing me as owner.  If I don't need to produce evidence, this is an advantage so interested in your experience (or that of others).

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, Nemises said:

Yeah mate. But I think he’s asking how he goes about keeping the pension when he’s got 800 large sitting in his bank after he sells i.e. can he buy a property o/s? If so, How long has he got to buy said overseas property before pension is lost based on his 800k cash assets?

OK, missed the part about his assets. I would be talking to someone at Centrelink to find out how much he's allowed to have in cash. He's probably never going to get a full pension unless he blows a large portion on a house in Thailand.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Tradewind777 said:

They accepted your declaration on the $150k home purchase without requiring evidence?   This is of interest to me because I intend to buy a home through a complex company structure, so I will not be able to produce a title deed/chanot showing me as owner.  If I don't need to produce evidence, this is an advantage so interested in your experience (or that of others).

Yes, they took my word for it, never was asked to prove anything.

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

OK, missed the part about his assets. I would be talking to someone at Centrelink to find out how much he's allowed to have in cash. He's probably never going to get a full pension unless he blows a large portion on a house in Thailand.

For financial assets (ie cash at bank) the full aged pension is payable up to $185k.

 

Part aged pension payable from $185k up to $785k.

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

Yeah mate. But I think he’s asking how he goes about keeping the pension when he’s got 800 large sitting in his bank after he sells i.e. can he buy a property o/s? If so, How long has he got to buy said overseas property before pension is lost based on his 800k cash assets?

If you sell your home, the proceeds will be exempt for up to 12 months, as long as you are planning to use the money to buy another home. After the 12-month exemption period, the proceeds will be deemed under the income test.

[opalred]

i sold my house 10yrs before pension/as i was going to retire overseas /money over the years went to my children and gradually took 9000 $ each trip away /that was many years ago 

i look back .i should have bought a cheap house in the bush /and returned sometimes to hold on to medicare  

[pookondee]

On 9/11/2019 at 9:08 PM, LosLobo said:

The two year qualification period for pension portability cannot be served in absentia in Thailand paid or unpaid.

 

The pension will only be paid to persons who have genuinely returned to Oz to resume residency permanently.

 

By virtue of applying for the pension then departing for two years the person obviously has no intention of being a permanent resident of Oz.

 

If the OP's facts are correct, I would suggest that the C/L representative doesn't know what she is talking about.

This is what it is coming to.

In Australia recently, tried to get a new medicare card.

Not only did they want ID, but utility bills in my name on it (a bit hard to arrange when staying with family)

 

But this is the kicker..

They now actually force you sign an affadavit form to say your intending to stay permanently before they let you back on medicare.

 

AND as i was leaving she says with satisfaction:

"and remember, theres a possible 2 year jail sentance for contravening an affadavit statement"

 

and thats for just a piddly medicare card..

 

So be ready guys, and dont be suprised if they soon start pulling this shxt on you when applying for pensions.

[Goinghomesoon]

11 minutes ago, pookondee said:

This is what it is coming to.

In Australia recently, tried to get a new medicare card.

Not only did they want ID, but utility bills in my name on it (a bit hard to arrange when staying with family)

 

But this is the kicker..

They now actually force you sign an affadavit form to say your intending to stay permanently before they let you back on medicare.

 

AND as i was leaving she says with satisfaction:

"and remember, theres a possible 2 year jail sentance for contravening an affadavit statement"

 

and thats for just a piddly medicare card..

 

So be ready guys, and dont be suprised if they soon start pulling this shxt on you when applying for pensions.

Well how long have you been non-resident?  The government is upfront that you lose it after 5 years overseas.  See the "Australians Living Overseas' section of the Medicare website https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/subjects/how-enrol-and-get-started-medicare/enrolling-medicare/how-enrol-medicare-if-youre-australian-citizen 

 

[pookondee]

12 minutes ago, Goinghomesoon said:

Well how long have you been non-resident?  The government is upfront that you lose it after 5 years overseas.  See the "Australians Living Overseas' section of the Medicare website https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/subjects/how-enrol-and-get-started-medicare/enrolling-medicare/how-enrol-medicare-if-youre-australian-citizen 

 

I have been doing many trips to many locations but i do go back nearly every year.

So, the total time tallied up would be more than 5 years, but not continual, if thats makes sense.

 

The thing that bugs me is this...

If they look in my passport they will see nothing but tourist visas.

Would that not mean, officially, i am actually JUST A TOURIST in those countries!??

 

If they see non-O, or multiple year long extensions based on retirement or other such visas that is PROOF of someone living away then thats fine.

BUT..im a tourist!

 

But as Aus is, clearly getting more Nazi-like every year.

they love treading all over minorities groups and constantly making more tougher unfair laws...

 

well providing (of course) its a very small minority group that dont have any voting numbers..

 

the aussie pollies have always been nothing a bunch of gutless wonders!

disgusting!

[Goinghomesoon]

10 minutes ago, pookondee said:

I have been doing many trips to many locations but i do go back nearly every year.

So, the total time tallied up would be more than 5 years, but not continual, if thats makes sense.

 

The thing that bugs me is this...

If they look in my passport they will see nothing but tourist visas.

Would that not mean, officially, i am actually JUST A TOURIST in those countries!??

 

If they see non-O, or multiple year long extensions based on retirement or other such visas that is PROOF of someone living away then thats fine.

BUT..im a tourist!

 

But as Aus is, clearly getting more Nazi-like every year.

they love treading all over minorities groups and constantly making more tougher unfair laws...

 

well providing (of course) its a very small minority group that dont have any voting numbers..

 

the aussie pollies have always been nothing a bunch of gutless wonders!

disgusting!

Going back every year doesn't necessarily make you a "resident" nor eligible for Medicare.  Home Affairs (Immigration) and Medicare do data-matching which will add up how many days you are NOT in Australia and probably flag you for review, if not outright cancellation of Medicare.  Your residency is based on your time in Australia.  Doesn't matter what kind of visas you use to travel overseas.    Without knowing specifics, you write above that you are out of Australia and just going back "nearly every year".  I doubt your situation would pass the "pub test" (ie: most people sitting around in a country pub and talking about Medicare would want their hard earned money to actually go to people who live in, and contribute to, Australian society).   The pollies just serve the public so no good blaming them. And before you crucify me, I don't live in Australia either, at the moment, that's just my perspective from afar.

[pookondee]

2 hours ago, Goinghomesoon said:

Going back every year doesn't necessarily make you a "resident" nor eligible for Medicare.  Home Affairs (Immigration) and Medicare do data-matching which will add up how many days you are NOT in Australia and probably flag you for review, if not outright cancellation of Medicare.  Your residency is based on your time in Australia.  Doesn't matter what kind of visas you use to travel overseas.    Without knowing specifics, you write above that you are out of Australia and just going back "nearly every year".  I doubt your situation would pass the "pub test" (ie: most people sitting around in a country pub and talking about Medicare would want their hard earned money to actually go to people who live in, and contribute to, Australian society).   The pollies just serve the public so no good blaming them. And before you crucify me, I don't live in Australia either, at the moment, that's just my perspective from afar.

 

My reading of their litmus tests of reidency (from their website years ago) and from memory,

involved such things as:

-showing continued ongoing links to Australia.

through having postal address, drivers licence, voting, family ties etc

 

as well as above, in my case:

 

- travelling various places frequently and never actually having a constant postal address/main residence in the other countries, by default can only be an Aus resident?

 

- if im working in Aus now and then (even if just temporary) showing yearly tax returns with the same employer, then more likely Aus remains an obvious main place of domicile in the long run.

 

But yeah, i know the departments all have different rules regarding that,

but also peoples circumstances and plans can change constantly also.

 

The pub test on the medicare issue...most people i talked to in Aus knew nothing about this issue but when explained, ALL of them more or less said:

"well..you are an Australian citizen so surely you are entitled to Medicare"

 

granted, coming from family and friends is biased!

 

Not a big issue as one can hardly access docs and Aus hospitals in Thailand anyway.

 

And no, i dont crucify people for their info and opinions...

More is the point, thanks for taking the time and energy in giving it!

Edited September 27, 2019 by pookondee

[Lacessit]

21 minutes ago, pookondee said:

 

My reading of their litmus tests of reidency (from their website years ago) and from memory,

involved such things as:

-showing continued ongoing links to Australia.

through having postal address, drivers licence, voting, family ties etc

 

as well as above, in my case:

 

- travelling various places frequently and never actually having a constant postal address/main residence in the other countries, by default can only be an Aus resident?

 

- if im working in Aus now and then (even if just temporary) showing yearly tax returns with the same employer, then more likely Aus remains an obvious main place of domicile in the long run.

 

But yeah, i know the departments all have different rules regarding that,

but also peoples circumstances and plans can change constantly also.

 

The pub test on the medicare issue...most people i talked to in Aus knew nothing about this issue but when explained, ALL of them more or less said:

"well..you are an Australian citizen so surely you are entitled to Medicare"

 

granted, coming from family and friends is biased!

 

Not a big issue as one can hardly access docs and Aus hospitals in Thailand anyway.

 

And no, i dont crucify people for their info and opinions...

More is the point, thanks for taking the time and energy in giving it!

The question of residency is a quite gray area, because several tests are applied by the ATO. Residency determination is at their discretion, and subject to appeal. I would suggest if one doesn't poke the bear, it won't bite you.

Medicare is cancelled if one is absent from Australia for 5 years straight. I go back to Australia every six months, and I have been issued with two new Medicare cards in the space of ten years, living mainly in Thailand.

It's preferable to maintain residency in Australia if you have investments earning income outside a super fund. As a non-resident, you will be taxed at 30% on any Australian income, and you won't get any franking credits from share dividends.

n75127-DE-5543_Residency-for-tax-purposes-factsheet_W.pdf