Australian Aged Pension

[Nemises]

On 11/23/2019 at 1:41 AM, RJRS1301 said:

Newstart means mutual obligation restriction, must be actively seeking work. Allowed os for very limited time per year.

 

In some circumstances job seekers can receive Newstart allowances for doing voluntary work instead of actively seeking work.

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/3/2/9/130

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Nemises said:

 

In some circumstances job seekers can receive Newstart allowances for doing voluntary work instead of actively seeking work.

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/3/2/9/130

My wife does voluntary work for Centrelink payment. Personally I recommend Meals on Wheels as a driver / delivery person - they pay for petrol - actual hours lot less than 15 per week and constructive contribution. If you're living near the coast, IMO Coast Guards are also a good option.

[RJRS1301]

8 hours ago, Nemises said:

 

In some circumstances job seekers can receive Newstart allowances for doing voluntary work instead of actively seeking work.

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/3/2/9/130

That is part of mutual obligations, I am unsure not r can be bothered researching length of time you are allowed to travel o/s while on NewStart but it is not very long and consent has to be given to leave

[scorecard]

16 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

That is part of mutual obligations, I am unsure not r can be bothered researching length of time you are allowed to travel o/s while on NewStart but it is not very long and consent has to be given to leave

'...consent has to be given to leave'

 

Is consent to leave necessary for OAP pensioners who have fully satisfied the return for 2 years to re-establish residency?

 

Whether yes or no to the question just above, if the pensioner does go abroad (short term or forever) is there ever any reduction in OAP payments (other then reduction / cancellation of energy allowance and similar? 

'

[RJRS1301]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

'...consent has to be given to leave'

 

Is consent to leave necessary for OAP pensioners who have fully satisfied the return for 2 years to re-establish residency?

 

Whether yes or no to the question just above, if the pensioner does go abroad (short term or forever) is there ever any reduction in OAP payments (other then reduction / cancellation of energy allowance and similar? 

'

No cancellation of anything outside of named allowances.

You need to notify the Older Australians (think that is name} part of Centrelink, but once portability granted that is all

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

No cancellation of anything outside of named allowances.

You need to notify the Older Australians (think that is name} part of Centrelink, but once portability granted that is all

Good news, thanks.

[moojar]

There is new legislation on its way thru parliament with changes that may affect some here. 

 

I first read about it here: https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/age-pension/news/pension-cuts-on-the-way

 

That website is 'clickbait' fodder, they sensationalise everything.  

 

I found a good summary here:  https://crm.acoss.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Payment-Integrity-Bill-2019.pdf

Quote

Payment Integrity Bill 2019

What does the bill do?

The Payment Integrity Bill cuts income support payments to pensioners and some people accessing Newstart, Austudy, Youth Allowance, and Sickness Allowance. These cuts would be realised via three measures:

1. Extending the residency requirements to access the Age and Disability Support pensions;

2. Cutting the GST Supplement paid to pensioners who have leave Australia for six weeks or more; and

3. Doubling the Liquid Assets Waiting Period from 13 to 26 weeks.

 

Schedule 1 lengthens the residency requirements for access to the pension from 10 to 15 years.

At the moment, people need the following to qualify for a pension:

 Ten years’ continuous residency at any stage, or

 A total of ten years residency, with at least five years served continuously.

This schedule will tighten these requirements so that people must have:

 Ten years’ continuous residency with at least five years served during the ages of 16 and Age Pension age (currently 65.5), or

 Ten years’ continuous residency at any stage, with fewer than five years in receipt of income support, or

 15 years’ continuous residency.

 

Schedule 2 – stopping the payment of the GST Supplement to pensioners who spend 6 weeks or longer overseas. 

Currently, pensioners continue to receive the GST Supplement after spending six weeks overseas, but lose access to the Utilities Allowance, Telephone Supplement and Pharmaceutical Allowance (which together with the GST Supplement, form the Pension Supplement). This schedule will stop payment of the GST Supplement after six weeks of being overseas.

An estimated 175,000 pensioners will be affected in the first year, with 80,000 affected thereafter.

The GST Supplement is currently $11.95 for singles per week and $19.70 per week for couples (combined). 

 

Schedule 3 – Doubling the Liquid Assets Waiting Period to six months.

The government proposes to double the Liquid Assets Waiting Period, which would see people wait up to six months to access payments including Newstart, Austudy and Sickness Allowance.

Currently, people with liquid assets of over $5,000 (single) or $10,000 (couple/person with dependent child) may be required to serve a Liquid Assets Waiting Period (LAWP).

 

For anyone interested you can see the progress of the bill thru parliament here, with link to the actual bill being debated:  https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Search_Results/Result?bId=r6401 

 

It is in the Senate and it looks like the LNP "have the numbers" to get this thru. 

 

Seems to me the first part would be agreeable to many here - aimed at refugees / 'family reunion' immigrants / immigrant welfare bludgers. 

 

The second part will affect many, but should have been done long ago IMO. 

 

The third part is going to hurt some in the 'two years detention BEFORE pension age' category. 

[UncleMhee]

Updates
New Overseas Welfare Recipients Integrity Program from 20 December 2019
From 20 December 2019, Australian pension recipients residing permanently overseas and aged 80 years and over are required to complete a proof of life certificate every two years to continue receiving their pension.
This new requirement applies to Australian pensioners receiving Age Pension, Disability Support Pension, Widow B Pension, Wife Pension or Carer Payment.
The Department of Human Services (DHS) will notify Australian pensioners living overseas by letter if they are required to complete a proof of life certificate.
The proof of life certificate must be verified by an authorised certifier. An authorised certifier can be:
a registered/licensed lawyer, solicitor, or barrister
a judge or magistrate
a registrar of a law court
a police officer
an Australian Consular Officer or Australian Diplomatic Officer
an Authorised Consular Employee
a Justice of the Peace
a notary public
a registered/licensed medical doctor.
Those who do not provide a certified proof of life certificate to DHS within 13 weeks of the request will have their pension suspended. If they have not provided their certified certificate after a further 13 weeks (26 weeks in total), their payment will be cancelled.
Pensioners who have their pension suspended or cancelled can have it restored if they provide a certified proof of life certificate to DHS. They will be paid any arrears they are entitled to.

Changes to waiting periods for migrants from 1 January 2019
Migrants granted a permanent visa, or temporary partner visa, on or after 1 January 2019 must wait between one and four years before they can access certain welfare payments and concession cards. This period is called the Newly Arrived Resident’s Waiting Period (NARWP).
Information on these changes is provided in the Waiting period for welfare payments for new migrants and Exemptions from the Newly Arrived Resident’s Waiting Period fact sheets. These fact sheets are also available in the following languages:
Arabic
Korean
Nepali
Punjabi
Simplified Chinese
Spanish
Thai
Traditional Chinese
Urdu
Vietnamese
The current Assurance of Support period that applies to some family visas has also increased to four years, in line with the NARWP for working age payments.
Further information on waiting periods and other residency requirements is provided on the Residence Criteria page.

Enhanced Residency Requirements for Pensioners (2017-18 Budget)
Pending the passage of legislation, to qualify for Age Pension or Disability Support Pension a person will be required to have 10 years continuous Australian residence, with either:
five years of this residence being during their working life (16 years of age to Age Pension age); or
not have been in receipt of an activity tested income support payment for a cumulative period of greater than five years.
In circumstances where the person does not meet the requirements set out above, they will be required to have 15 years continuous Australian residence before being eligible to receive the Age Pension or Disability Support Pension.

This measure has not commenced.

Stopping the Pension Supplement (2016-17 Budget)
Subject to the passage of legislation, the Pension Supplement Basic Amount will stop after six weeks overseas, or immediately if the recipient has permanently departed Australia.
Currently, the Pension Supplement is reduced to the Basic Amount after six weeks temporary absence from Australia, or immediately for permanent departures.
This measure will affect income support recipients who travel outside Australia temporarily for more than six weeks or immediately if the recipient has permanently departed Australia.
This measure will reinforce and strengthen the residence based nature of Australia’s social security system.

This measure has not commenced.

Last updated: 4 December 2019 - 2:16pm

www.dss.gov.au/living-in-australia-and-overseas/update

[moojar]

11 hours ago, UncleMhee said:

This measure will reinforce and strengthen the residence based nature of Australia’s social security system.

That says it all about the current attitude to overseas pensioners.    

[4MyEgo]

On 1/12/2008 at 12:55 AM, bgood said:

I retired to Thailand in 1997 at the age of 45. My income is from investments in Australia. On the advice of my accountant, I declared myself 'non-resident' in Australia and now pay 10% flat tax on earnings there. That is a lot less than I was paying.

Should I live to the age of 65, (highly unlikly with my lifestyle), how poor will I need to be to receive an old age pension or part there of?

By saying you pay "10% flat tax on earnings there", I would assume that you mean from interest earned on money held in the bank/s, e.g. 10% withholding tax, because if you are earning there, as I do, e.g. consultancy work, but from here, it's 32.5%, naturally no tax paid on my investments in the Australian Stock Exchange.

 

The above said, if you know of a loophole that says, one only has to pay 10% from earning in Australia, I would be one who would love to hear about it. 

 

As for how poor do you have to be to receive the pension, well, no good news, get rid of it, ( the money) i.e. park it somewhere 5 years out of the pension age, which starts at about 67 depending on the year you were born, and of course have to be back in Australia when you apply for it, and if you do when you reach that age, have to stay there for 2 years because you can have it made portable, i.e. to receive it in Thailand, but not before you convince them you have returned to Australia to live.

 

The above said, don't bank on getting the pension if you have money, and of course, by the time we reach the OAP age, rules will change, i.e. portability will probably be changed, grandfathered for the others, but for us newbies, probably no portability, I'm afraid to say, suffice to say, as non residents, we can't vote, so it won't bother them.

Edited December 7, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

So here's a thought and some questions that go with it.

 

Thinking of returning to Australia a couple of years before the OAP age and I purchased a property as my principal place of residence with the money I have invested.

 

1) Would I qualify as opposed to having the OAP reduced if I left my money in investments

 

2) Does the pension get reduced because I have a Thai wife who is younger than me, i.e. if memory serves me correct from what I have read on TVF, they will give me the marriage pension halved or a single pension which is reduced to 80% not sure which one it is ?

Edited December 14, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[nev]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

So here's a thought and some questions that go with it.

 

Thinking of returning to Australia a couple of years before the OAP age and I purchased a property as my principal place of residence with the money I have invested.

 

1) Would I qualify as opposed to having the OAP reduced if I left my money in investments

 

2) Does the pension get reduced because I have a Thai wife who is younger than me, i.e. if memory serves me correct from what I have read on TVF, they will give me the marriage pension halved or a single pension which is reduced to 80% not sure which one it is ?

Good question  that about Thai wife, how much is it reduced. 

I am going back end of the month to live and only have holidays here for my last 5 years before pension,  Main reason I want to make sure I have the 35 years for a full pension. 

What constitutes a full year towards the 35 years? 

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, nev said:

Good question  that about Thai wife, how much is it reduced. 

This was from 16 September 2019 and from my understanding the example states that he gets half of the marriage pension per fortnight, which is less than the single pension.

 

https://www.superguide.com.au/accessing-superannuation/age-pension-rates#What_happens_if_only_one_member_of_a_couple_is_eligible

What happens if only one member of a couple is eligible?

This is a common question. If you’re in a living arrangement with your partner and only one of you is eligible for the Age Pension, do you receive the single rate or half of the combined couple rate?

The answer is half the combined couple rate and it’s best illustrated with an example.

Example

Bill reached the current pension eligibility age of 65 years and 6 months in January 2018. He meets the Age Pension residency requirements and passed both the asset and income tests, not reaching the threshold limits of either one. He is eligible for the maximum Age Pension rate. However, his partner Sue is only 62 and she is therefore not yet age-eligible for the Age Pension.

Bill would be entitled to the maximum Age Pension rate of $641.00 for each person in a “couple” living arrangement. He would also be entitled to the maximum Pension Supplement of $51.90. He would not be eligible for the energy supplement.

Edited December 14, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, nev said:

What constitutes a full year towards the 35 years? 

35 years is the total time you lived in Australia, not worked, so say for example you lived in Australia from 16 to 51 years of age, you qualify. 

[nev]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

35 years is the total time you lived in Australia, not worked, so say for example you lived in Australia from 16 to 51 years of age, you qualify. 

I moved from England in 1980 aged 22, I am 61 now so I will qualify but I have lived on off in Thailand for the past 8 years. 

I go back once a year and work 3 months and was wondering if they will count the last 8 years?. 

I do keep a home address in Oz at my daughters and never told them that I live overseas. 

[RJRS1301]

7 hours ago, nev said:

I moved from England in 1980 aged 22, I am 61 now so I will qualify but I have lived on off in Thailand for the past 8 years. 

I go back once a year and work 3 months and was wondering if they will count the last 8 years?. 

I do keep a home address in Oz at my daughters and never told them that I live overseas. 

You do not have to tell, they can do data matching

[scorecard]

On 11/27/2019 at 3:42 PM, RJRS1301 said:

No cancellation of anything outside of named allowances.

You need to notify the Older Australians (think that is name} part of Centrelink, but once portability granted that is all

",,, but once portability granted that is all"

 

Can the experts please share how that works.

 

I've tried to research this point but never found an absolutely clear answer.

 

My understanding (could be wrong) is; once the pensioner has been receiving OAP payments for 12 months (and the months of waiting for approval and then back-paid to the date of lodging the OAP application are counted, then portability is now achieved, and there there is no requirement to ask for something like confirmation of having portability / a 'certificate' of portability or anything similar.

 

But of course that doesn't override the requirement of being in Australia for the majority of 2 years to re-establish residency.

 

In other words when portability and re-establishment of residency has been achieved then the pensioner can leave long-term / forever and continue to receive their OAP payments abroad forever. But at this point is there a need to advise CL of the travel to depart? 

 

Would the experts please comment. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, nev said:

I moved from England in 1980 aged 22, I am 61 now so I will qualify but I have lived on off in Thailand for the past 8 years. 

I go back once a year and work 3 months and was wondering if they will count the last 8 years?. 

I do keep a home address in Oz at my daughters and never told them that I live overseas. 

They are linked to immigration or border control, so when they make a search to see how many times you have been out and back into the country, they will know.

 

Keep it simple, and don't lie because if it backfires and it will as they become more and more sophisticated with technology, you could be knocked back.

 

The way I see it you have 31 years of the 35 required for the full pension that is you will receive 31/35 or 88.5% of the pension if you are a single bloke, now if you go back 2 years prior to the OAP age that will be 33 years or 33/35 or 94% of the OAP, and then you can go back to Thailand as it will be portable as you would have done your time for it to be made portable.

[4MyEgo]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

But at this point is there a need to advise CL of the travel to depart? 

Each time you depart you must let them know otherwise they will stop your payments, it's part of the deal.

 

Mr/Mrs Centrelink, I am going on an overseas holiday and do not know when I will be back, that is all you have to do, they enter it into the system and the system doesn't bounce when it's picked up from immigration or border control if you like.

 

It comes up under when your circumstances change which is broad, they cannot stop you having portability of your pension, they just want to know what your up to circumstances wise, Inon of your fn business), think again, their rules, play the game, but be smart, let's you left and your pension was stopped, you ring them, oh but you didn't tell us and the system picked it up and stopped your pension because you didn't notify us that your circumstances changed, now that it has stopped you will have to come back and the system will reactivate ince your back in the country as we will know when your back, don't think for one minute you will win with these robots.

 

The way I would do it, hi guys my circumstances are changing and have to let you know as advised, i.e. I am departing on X and travelling the world, don't know when I will be back, can you put a note in your system so my pension doesn't get stopped.

 

Money in your Australian account as usual, Transferwise to Thai account, Bob's your late uncle.

 

Each to their own.

[nev]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

They are linked to immigration or border control, so when they make a search to see how many times you have been out and back into the country, they will know.

 

Keep it simple, and don't lie because if it backfires and it will as they become more and more sophisticated with technology, you could be knocked back.

 

The way I see it you have 31 years of the 35 required for the full pension that is you will receive 31/35 or 88.5% of the pension if you are a single bloke, now if you go back 2 years prior to the OAP age that will be 33 years or 33/35 or 94% of the OAP, and then you can go back to Thailand as it will be portable as you would have done your time for it to be made portable.

Thanks I will tell the truth and my plan is over the 5 years before I get the pension I will try to spend over 6 months each year to go in my favor,  what I want to find is 6 months or over a year added on to the 35 years or counts as half a year, Take into account I will be doing 2 or 3 months work 1 month in Thailand. 

[ThaiBunny]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

But at this point is there a need to advise CL of the travel to depart?

Immigration & CL computers are linked and there is active exchange of data. A friend of mine who is a dual passport holder (Australia and New Zealand) left one day on his NZ passport and within a week received an automated letter from CL advising him of the 6-week rule (for allowances)

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, nev said:

Thanks I will tell the truth and my plan is over the 5 years before I get the pension I will try to spend over 6 months each year to go in my favor,  what I want to find is 6 months or over a year added on to the 35 years or counts as half a year, Take into account I will be doing 2 or 3 months work 1 month in Thailand. 

For what it's worth, I have read somewhere in the legislation that its 6 months of a financial year, so that might be the key, i.e. be in Australia from say 1 July to 31 December if that makes the 183 days required a year to retain your residency status, or 1 January to 30 June.

 

If you retain your residency status, they cannot argue so if your lodging tax returns, make sure you tick the box Australian resident for tax purposes as opposed to non-resident for tax purposes.

[nev]

32 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

For what it's worth, I have read somewhere in the legislation that its 6 months of a financial year, so that might be the key, i.e. be in Australia from say 1 July to 31 December if that makes the 183 days required a year to retain your residency status, or 1 January to 30 June.

 

If you retain your residency status, they cannot argue so if your lodging tax returns, make sure you tick the box Australian resident for tax purposes as opposed to non-resident for tax purposes.

Yes my accountant always ticks that box and even when I don't go back he does my accounts. 

Cheers mate. 

 

[moojar]

On 12/14/2019 at 9:24 PM, nev said:

Good question  that about Thai wife, how much is it reduced. 

I am going back end of the month to live and only have holidays here for my last 5 years before pension,  Main reason I want to make sure I have the 35 years for a full pension. 

What constitutes a full year towards the 35 years? 

I believe they add up all the odd months to count towards your 35 years, maybe even weeks.  At least that is what they told me - I enquired for my wife and CL told me any time she has spent out of Australia is deducted, even for holidays.  I had asked something like "We visit Thailand almost every year during our annual leave, and she has been twice by herself for several months at a time. Does that time get taken away from the total?"  

 

Seemed a bit mean-spirited to me - my wife is an Australian Citizen, surely overseas holidays are allowed.  But in your case it may work in your favour if the holidays you have had in Oz count towards your 35 years.

[nev]

59 minutes ago, moojar said:

I believe they add up all the odd months to count towards your 35 years, maybe even weeks.  At least that is what they told me - I enquired for my wife and CL told me any time she has spent out of Australia is deducted, even for holidays.  I had asked something like "We visit Thailand almost every year during our annual leave, and she has been twice by herself for several months at a time. Does that time get taken away from the total?"  

 

Seemed a bit mean-spirited to me - my wife is an Australian Citizen, surely overseas holidays are allowed.  But in your case it may work in your favour if the holidays you have had in Oz count towards your 35 years.

Nice to hear that mate, Years ago I used to work two or three months then one month Thailand I did this for around 8 years and as you say it would be mean spirited if they took those 1 months hols of my total.

My wife understands my need to go back and get as many months in over the next 5 years before retirement, To be truthful it's good I can get some money coming in as 20baht to the dollar hurts.

[RJRS1301]

10 hours ago, moojar said:

I believe they add up all the odd months to count towards your 35 years, maybe even weeks.  At least that is what they told me - I enquired for my wife and CL told me any time she has spent out of Australia is deducted, even for holidays.  I had asked something like "We visit Thailand almost every year during our annual leave, and she has been twice by herself for several months at a time. Does that time get taken away from the total?"  

 

Seemed a bit mean-spirited to me - my wife is an Australian Citizen, surely overseas holidays are allowed.  But in your case it may work in your favour if the holidays you have had in Oz count towards your 35 years.

That is contradictory  to what I was told, holidays allowed (up to three months I think), as long as you had "lived" outside, I studied overseas for several years but that was not counted against me.

[moojar]

On 12/16/2019 at 9:01 PM, RJRS1301 said:

That is contradictory  to what I was told, holidays allowed (up to three months I think), as long as you had "lived" outside, I studied overseas for several years but that was not counted against me.

Yeah not surprised - didn't make sense to me.  Either the person I spoke to was talking <deleted>, they were referring to the 'wife spent several months out of Oz' part only, or the person you spoke to was talking <deleted>.  Who knows.   

 

They don't employ "Einsteins" in call centres - who in their right mind would work in one, would be hellish. 

 

[RJRS1301]

36 minutes ago, moojar said:

Yeah not surprised - didn't make sense to me.  Either the person I spoke to was talking <deleted>, they were referring to the 'wife spent several months out of Oz' part only, or the person you spoke to was talking <deleted>.  Who knows.   

 

They don't employ "Einsteins" in call centres - who in their right mind would work in one, would be hellish. 

 

Quote

as long as you had "lived" outside,should read had NOT lived outside Australia.

 

I would have thought studying and earning funds outside Australia was "lived" outside for several years.

My information was given face to face, and was granted "full" pension according the assets test limitations.

[BB1958]

This is my experience:

 

When the 25yrs qualifying period was increased to 35yrs under the Abbott Liberal Gov. I too wondered, as I was "marginal", being a 10 pound pom. When I had my interview, they asked about my time outside OZ, I said I was employed by the Gov, and used my holidays to travel, to many countries. ALL dates, of my travels were on computer (which surprised me, at the time - it does not surprise me now).

 

Bottom line: I received my letter from Centrelink, stating I had qualified with a minimum of 420 months (They did not state MY maximum, however, is was unnecessary to do so, as it would have changed nothing)  and awarded full benefits AND portability. I have kept this letter in a safe place.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, BB1958 said:

This is my experience:

 

When the 25yrs qualifying period was increased to 35yrs under the Abbott Liberal Gov. I too wondered, as I was "marginal", being a 10 pound pom. When I had my interview, they asked about my time outside OZ, I said I was employed by the Gov, and used my holidays to travel, to many countries. ALL dates, of my travels were on computer (which surprised me, at the time - it does not surprise me now).

 

Bottom line: I received my letter from Centrelink, stating I had qualified with a minimum of 420 months (They did not state MY maximum, however, is was unnecessary to do so, as it would have changed nothing)  and awarded full benefits AND portability. I have kept this letter in a safe place.

I'm a bit lost on the 25 years to qualify / the 35 year to qualify.

Example, born in Oz in 1945 stayed in Oz full time until 1990.

 

- Scenario 1. Under the 25 year criteria:

- 1945 + 16 = 1961 + 25 years = must in OZ up to 1986 to get full pension.

 

- Scenario 2. Under the 35 year criteria:

- 1945 +16 + 1961 + 35 years = must be in OZ up to 1996 to get full pension.

 

Some write ups seen to indicate both of the above apply to folks born in Oz after 1952.

 

But what about folks before 1952, e.g. born 1945, does Scenario 1 apply? Or for folks born before 1952 is there another formula?

 

Can one of the experts please comment.  Thanks.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by scorecard