Australian Aged Pension

[KhunHeineken]

27 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Your posts are a pain in the <deleted> for most of the posters here I'd imagine.

 

You're the only one who can't see it.

Are you the forum spokesperson? 

 

Are you a moderator wannabe? 

 

Just put me on your ignore list and you don't have to read my posts. 

 

No one likes being told they may have to pay tax, or pay more tax in the future, but shooting the messenger does nothing to change the situation. 

 

In any case, I see it's the usual suspects jumping online after I post to personally attack me and to get me sent on another holiday. 

[steven100]

Lol   !    good to see the sh_t fight reputation of every thread is still happening.  I love it when AN members here start arguing and fighting .....    that's the only stuff worth read ... the insults are to die for  !!    

[KhunHeineken]

3 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Lol   !    good to see the sh_t fight reputation of every thread is still happening.  I love it when AN members here start arguing and fighting .....    that's the only stuff worth read ... the insults are to die for  !!    

It's funny how some members constantly moan about another member and their posts, which they could easily put on their ignore list, but they don't, because they actually want to read that member's posts.  Too funny. 

 

I encourage any member that finds my posts on the proposed changes to Australian taxation and residency to put me on your ignore list.  Ignorance is bliss.   

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

The ABS classifies someone as "employed" if they work more than 1 hour a week, which is ridiculous.

 

The reason casual employment is preferred by employers is because it gets around the unfair dismissal laws.  You don't have to fire anyone, you just don't ring them and give them hours.

It's also preferred by politicians currently in power, as it makes their spin look good.

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

That's why Australia is "The Lucky Country."  Working is a lifestyle choice, not a necessity.

No more. Millennials have been priced out of the housing market, the main beneficiaries are the Baby Boomers thanks to negative gearing, exemption of the family home in asset testing, and favorable treatment of capital gains.

Try being in the public health system in Australia with an illness requiring a specialist. You'll be lucky to get the initial appointment after referral by a GP within 6 months.

As an example, the reception staff of my urologist wanted a new referral because I have been away from Australia for 3 years. That was in February, the first appointment I could get to see him is in June. And I have top level private health cover.

[ozfarang]

7 hours ago, Lacessit said:

No more. Millennials have been priced out of the housing market, the main beneficiaries are the Baby Boomers thanks to negative gearing, exemption of the family home in asset testing, and favorable treatment of capital gains.

Try being in the public health system in Australia with an illness requiring a specialist. You'll be lucky to get the initial appointment after referral by a GP within 6 months.

As an example, the reception staff of my urologist wanted a new referral because I have been away from Australia for 3 years. That was in February, the first appointment I could get to see him is in June. And I have top level private health cover.

I've just returned to Australia (Perth) after a 2 year absence and got an appointment with my cardiologist within 2 weeks and I don't have top level private health cover.

Referral letters from a GP to specialists are only valid for 1 year

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, ozfarang said:

I've just returned to Australia (Perth) after a 2 year absence and got an appointment with my cardiologist within 2 weeks and I don't have top level private health cover.

Referral letters from a GP to specialists are only valid for 1 year

Supply and demand, all the specialists in Melbourne appear to be flat chat. Perth is much smaller than Melbourne, and IMO more liveable.

Your second statement is incorrect. GP's in Melbourne can and do give indefinite referrals for ongoing management of chronic health conditions. Perhaps you have never had one. It was only because I had not seen my urologist for 3 years ( Thanks to ScoMo barring Australians from returning to their own country).

[LosLobo]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Supply and demand, all the specialists in Melbourne appear to be flat chat. Perth is much smaller than Melbourne, and IMO more liveable.

Your second statement is incorrect. GP's in Melbourne can and do give indefinite referrals for ongoing management of chronic health conditions. Perhaps you have never had one. It was only because I had not seen my urologist for 3 years ( Thanks to ScoMo barring Australians from returning to their own country).

I recently saw my Opthalmologist and Urologist for ongoing in Adelaide and need a referral every year.

 

Medical Insurance does not cover outpatient visits its for inpatients.

 

Medicare pays a recommended fee for specialist visits though generally less than 50% for me.

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, LosLobo said:

I recently saw my Opthalmologist and Urologist for ongoing in Adelaide and need a referral every year.

 

Medical Insurance does not cover outpatient visits its for inpatients.

 

Medicare pays a recommended fee for specialist visits though generally less than 50% for me.

Indefinite referrals may be based on management of the ongoing condition. Mine are bladder cancer (2006) and chronic lymphocytic leukemia (2016).

When I get my next ongoing referral, I will post the doctor's letter on this forum as proof of my assertion.

Second statement is correct. Cystoscopies and chemotherapy are inpatient procedures.

Specialist fees vary, my oncologist bulk bills for consultations. The urologist is charging $280, I get $60 back from Medicare.

 

[LosLobo]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Indefinite referrals may be based on management of the ongoing condition. Mine are bladder cancer (2006) and chronic lymphocytic leukemia (2016).

When I get my next ongoing referral, I will post the doctor's letter on this forum as proof of my assertion.

Second statement is correct. Cystoscopies and chemotherapy are inpatient procedures.

Specialist fees vary, my oncologist bulk bills for consultations. The urologist is charging $280, I get $60 back from Medicare.

 

I have ongoing problems with my retina and the same for prostate cancer yet my GP continues to write me yearly referrals.

 

It seems a waste of time as you are correct about referrals thank you I will keep it in mind. No need to post it, it is on the web.

 

Yes, the Medicare fee is totally inadequate.

 

 

[ozfarang]

On 3/24/2023 at 10:25 AM, Lacessit said:

Supply and demand, all the specialists in Melbourne appear to be flat chat. Perth is much smaller than Melbourne, and IMO more liveable.

Your second statement is incorrect. GP's in Melbourne can and do give indefinite referrals for ongoing management of chronic health conditions. Perhaps you have never had one. It was only because I had not seen my urologist for 3 years ( Thanks to ScoMo barring Australians from returning to their own country).

My statement is not incorrect. I have been seeing my specialist for 7 years and need a new referral letter every year. What happens in Melbourne is not what happens in Perth, just like Thailand, different rules in different states

[LosLobo]

22 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

My statement is not incorrect. I have been seeing my specialist for 7 years and need a new referral letter every year. What happens in Melbourne is not what happens in Perth, just like Thailand, different rules in different states

What is a referral? | healthdirect

[ozfarang]

2 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

What is a referral? | healthdirect

Thanks for the info.

The letters are free so it's not a problem getting a new one each year

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, ozfarang said:

My statement is not incorrect. I have been seeing my specialist for 7 years and need a new referral letter every year. What happens in Melbourne is not what happens in Perth, just like Thailand, different rules in different states

OK, we are both correct depending on whether it is referrals in Perth or Melbourne.

None of which are required in Thailand, IME the transfer to a specialist occurs without paperwork.

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/23/2023 at 4:13 PM, Lacessit said:

It's also preferred by politicians currently in power, as it makes their spin look good.

Yes.  They can claim how low unemployment is, based on a lot of people working next to no hours per week.  Very misleading. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/23/2023 at 4:28 PM, Lacessit said:

No more. Millennials have been priced out of the housing market, the main beneficiaries are the Baby Boomers thanks to negative gearing, exemption of the family home in asset testing, and favorable treatment of capital gains.

Try being in the public health system in Australia with an illness requiring a specialist. You'll be lucky to get the initial appointment after referral by a GP within 6 months.

As an example, the reception staff of my urologist wanted a new referral because I have been away from Australia for 3 years. That was in February, the first appointment I could get to see him is in June. And I have top level private health cover.

You assume everyone is opting for the traditional, 1960's style of Australian culture, whereby you rolled your selves up and did a hard days work for a decent days pay.  That mentality has gone.  "Quiet quitting" is now the norm amongst the younger generation, who think they are doing their boss a favor by working for them.  

 

Australia's welfare bill has exploded, and not because we have an aging population. 

 

Why pay a mortgage when you can fall pregnant and get Department of Housing accommodation and then your boyfriend moves in.  Between the single mothers pension and the boyfriend on the dole, and all the other perks Centrelink hand out to them, the household practically brings in what a worker brings in, but the worker has to pay full freight for everything. 

 

As far as medical, I bet they can jump that queue as well, with workers who have private health being told to go down the private treatment route to make way for patients on Medicare. 

 

Go for a drive through any Housing Commission slum and you will see nice cars parked in the driveway.  They have no shortage of cash from playing the system, and many have never worked a day in their life, nor will they, ever.    

 

Then, consider, the more kids you have the more money and the bigger house you get, and you can see Australia has created a reverse pyramid with welfare recipients, whereby one turns into many over generations because the kids never saw mum or dad ever go to work.  In my opinion, the system is unsustainable. 

 

The "hand up" has changed to a "hand out."

 

How good is Australia? 

[MAF666]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

You assume everyone is opting for the traditional, 1960's style of Australian culture, whereby you rolled your selves up and did a hard days work for a decent days pay.  That mentality has gone.  "Quiet quitting" is now the norm amongst the younger generation, who think they are doing their boss a favor by working for them.  

 

Australia's welfare bill has exploded, and not because we have an aging population. 

 

Why pay a mortgage when you can fall pregnant and get Department of Housing accommodation and then your boyfriend moves in.  Between the single mothers pension and the boyfriend on the dole, and all the other perks Centrelink hand out to them, the household practically brings in what a worker brings in, but the worker has to pay full freight for everything. 

 

As far as medical, I bet they can jump that queue as well, with workers who have private health being told to go down the private treatment route to make way for patients on Medicare. 

 

Go for a drive through any Housing Commission slum and you will see nice cars parked in the driveway.  They have no shortage of cash from playing the system, and many have never worked a day in their life, nor will they, ever.    

 

Then, consider, the more kids you have the more money and the bigger house you get, and you can see Australia has created a reverse pyramid with welfare recipients, whereby one turns into many over generations because the kids never saw mum or dad ever go to work.  In my opinion, the system is unsustainable. 

 

The "hand up" has changed to a "hand out."

 

How good is Australia? 

Spot on mate.

That is why living in Thailand is for us.

 

[KhunHeineken]

16 minutes ago, MAF666 said:

Spot on mate.

That is why living in Thailand is for us.

 

Sure, but ultimately the bill for all these bludgers has to be paid by other Australians, and simply leaving Australia's shores may not be good enough in the future to escape contributing to Australian's welfare bill. 

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

You assume everyone is opting for the traditional, 1960's style of Australian culture, whereby you rolled your selves up and did a hard days work for a decent days pay.  That mentality has gone.  "Quiet quitting" is now the norm amongst the younger generation, who think they are doing their boss a favor by working for them.  

 

Australia's welfare bill has exploded, and not because we have an aging population. 

 

Why pay a mortgage when you can fall pregnant and get Department of Housing accommodation and then your boyfriend moves in.  Between the single mothers pension and the boyfriend on the dole, and all the other perks Centrelink hand out to them, the household practically brings in what a worker brings in, but the worker has to pay full freight for everything. 

 

As far as medical, I bet they can jump that queue as well, with workers who have private health being told to go down the private treatment route to make way for patients on Medicare. 

 

Go for a drive through any Housing Commission slum and you will see nice cars parked in the driveway.  They have no shortage of cash from playing the system, and many have never worked a day in their life, nor will they, ever.    

 

Then, consider, the more kids you have the more money and the bigger house you get, and you can see Australia has created a reverse pyramid with welfare recipients, whereby one turns into many over generations because the kids never saw mum or dad ever go to work.  In my opinion, the system is unsustainable. 

 

The "hand up" has changed to a "hand out."

 

How good is Australia? 

You are assuming the paths to Centrelink benefits, the public health system, and public housing are strewn with rose petals. From what you have posted previously, you have zero experience in those areas. For those who are unfortunate enough to be in it, war on the poor.

The welfare budget has exploded because the traditional 9 to 5 work pattern has been markedly diminished by casualisation. Why pay a decent wage, with employee benefits, when an employer can hire part-time staff with next to no legal protection of their rights?

The reverse pyramid has been created by rorts such as negative gearing, capital gains tax discounts, franked dividends, and superannuation. A ten million dollar home gets the same exemption from asset testing as a studio apartment.

Superannuation's original purpose was to provide a decent retirement. Instead, it has become a means of wealth accumulation and intergenerational transfer.

When COVID came along, many people in the workforce discovered working from home during lockdowns was much easier on them than fighting their way into a city for an hour or two either way. It's a new mindset on work for some.

The changes in government we are seeing in Australia are a revolt by younger voters and the middle class against a political party that has dedicated itself to enriching the rich further. And made climate denialism into an art form.

 

I am in Australia for medical treatment. When that is completed, I'm on the first plane I can get back to Thailand.

[Artisi]

18 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

You assume everyone is opting for the traditional, 1960's style of Australian culture, whereby you rolled your selves up and did a hard days work for a decent days pay.  That mentality has gone.  "Quiet quitting" is now the norm amongst the younger generation, who think they are doing their boss a favor by working for them.  

 

Australia's welfare bill has exploded, and not because we have an aging population. 

 

Why pay a mortgage when you can fall pregnant and get Department of Housing accommodation and then your boyfriend moves in.  Between the single mothers pension and the boyfriend on the dole, and all the other perks Centrelink hand out to them, the household practically brings in what a worker brings in, but the worker has to pay full freight for everything. 

 

As far as medical, I bet they can jump that queue as well, with workers who have private health being told to go down the private treatment route to make way for patients on Medicare. 

 

Go for a drive through any Housing Commission slum and you will see nice cars parked in the driveway.  They have no shortage of cash from playing the system, and many have never worked a day in their life, nor will they, ever.    

 

Then, consider, the more kids you have the more money and the bigger house you get, and you can see Australia has created a reverse pyramid with welfare recipients, whereby one turns into many over generations because the kids never saw mum or dad ever go to work.  In my opinion, the system is unsustainable. 

 

The "hand up" has changed to a "hand out."

 

How good is Australia? 

Unfortunately you are pretty well spot-on, although this is nothing new, 40 + years I worked with, a guy who had 6 kids, he only worked when he felt like it as the government hand out exceeded his normal weekly wage. It's just that now it's easier to cry poor- mouth and get a big payment each couple of weeks.

It's only us honest people on a pension who suffer today as we have no way to circumvent the system as we are watched like we're all criminals. (rant over) 

[KhunHeineken]

17 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You are assuming the paths to Centrelink benefits, the public health system, and public housing are strewn with rose petals. From what you have posted previously, you have zero experience in those areas. For those who are unfortunate enough to be in it, war on the poor.

The welfare budget has exploded because the traditional 9 to 5 work pattern has been markedly diminished by casualisation. Why pay a decent wage, with employee benefits, when an employer can hire part-time staff with next to no legal protection of their rights?

The reverse pyramid has been created by rorts such as negative gearing, capital gains tax discounts, franked dividends, and superannuation. A ten million dollar home gets the same exemption from asset testing as a studio apartment.

Superannuation's original purpose was to provide a decent retirement. Instead, it has become a means of wealth accumulation and intergenerational transfer.

When COVID came along, many people in the workforce discovered working from home during lockdowns was much easier on them than fighting their way into a city for an hour or two either way. It's a new mindset on work for some.

The changes in government we are seeing in Australia are a revolt by younger voters and the middle class against a political party that has dedicated itself to enriching the rich further. And made climate denialism into an art form.

 

I am in Australia for medical treatment. When that is completed, I'm on the first plane I can get back to Thailand.

A lot of your post has nothing to do with the point I am making.

 

You are correct, I have never taken a cent of welfare in my life, and therefore lack personal experience in this area.  I do look at the data and statistics and can see it paints a bleak picture for Australia's future. 

 

I see age as a genuine reason to not be able to work, which is obvious.  My posts are not against aged pensioners.  My posts are against those that have never worked a day in their life, and never will.  They play the system.  Imagine going through your whole life and never paying a cent of income tax, yet having all the infrastructure of a developed nation at your call, mostly for free.

 

Have a look at the graph in this link to see where the government spends its revenue.  Look at 2018 - 2019 which has figures not influenced by covid. 

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/BudgetReview202021/AustralianGovernmentExpenditure

 

For a nation of only 26 million people, with an aging population, where's the money going to come from to fund the ever increasing welfare bill into the future? 

[ozimoron]

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

A lot of your post has nothing to do with the point I am making.

 

You are correct, I have never taken a cent of welfare in my life, and therefore lack personal experience in this area.  I do look at the data and statistics and can see it paints a bleak picture for Australia's future. 

 

I see age as a genuine reason to not be able to work, which is obvious.  My posts are not against aged pensioners.  My posts are against those that have never worked a day in their life, and never will.  They play the system.  Imagine going through your whole life and never paying a cent of income tax, yet having all the infrastructure of a developed nation at your call, mostly for free.

 

Have a look at the graph in this link to see where the government spends its revenue.  Look at 2018 - 2019 which has figures not influenced by covid. 

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/BudgetReview202021/AustralianGovernmentExpenditure

 

For a nation of only 26 million people, with an aging population, where's the money going to come from to fund the ever increasing welfare bill into the future? 

Plenty of Australians have never paid tax for a variety of reasons which aren't their fault, such as disabilities or being indigenous, being just two examples. A civilised society should nevertheless provide for their old age anyway. If it requires the ATO to require the largest 300 or so companies to actually pay some tax, so be it.

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

A lot of your post has nothing to do with the point I am making.

 

You are correct, I have never taken a cent of welfare in my life, and therefore lack personal experience in this area.  I do look at the data and statistics and can see it paints a bleak picture for Australia's future. 

 

I see age as a genuine reason to not be able to work, which is obvious.  My posts are not against aged pensioners.  My posts are against those that have never worked a day in their life, and never will.  They play the system.  Imagine going through your whole life and never paying a cent of income tax, yet having all the infrastructure of a developed nation at your call, mostly for free.

 

Have a look at the graph in this link to see where the government spends its revenue.  Look at 2018 - 2019 which has figures not influenced by covid. 

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/BudgetReview202021/AustralianGovernmentExpenditure

 

For a nation of only 26 million people, with an aging population, where's the money going to come from to fund the ever increasing welfare bill into the future? 

IMO everyone on this forum is accustomed to you dismissing posts where the facts and argument do not agree with yours.

 

It is classic Liberal ideology to call all welfare recipients dole bludgers. It's a facile assumption, with little evidence to support it. Feel free to post data contradicting my assertion.

It's also fashionable to pretend welfare recipients are on Easy Street. The facts speak otherwise.

 

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/how-much-age-pension-you-can-get?context=22526

 

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/how-much-jobseeker-payment-you-can-get?context=51411

 

If you are single on Jobseeker, you get $278 less per fortnight than a age pensioner. $50 more if you are single with a child. You think you can feed and take care of a child for a fortnight on $50 extra?

I challenge you to live on $23 a day for the next month. Find out for yourself how easy it is.

 

Once one is in the age pension system, there is very little in the way of obligation. Example: As a part pensioner, I am supposed to report changes in my asset base every month to Centrelink. I did not report significant changes for three years. When I finally attended an office a month ago, my absence of reporting was not even mentioned.

 

OTOH, under the construct of "mutual obligation" a Jobseeker recipient is required to adhere to a Job Plan, with demerits and financial penalties applied in the event of default.

 

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/mutual-obligation-requirements?context=51411#whatrequirements

 

Imagine you are on a call for 4 - 6 hours, trying to get through to Services Australia to report as required, with a service provider chewing up your mobile phone credit, which is paid for out of $693 a fortnight.

 

Or imagine you are on Jobseeker, and become sick.

 

In my area of Melbourne, there are 6 medical clinics. The nearest public hospital with an emergency department is 15 km away, no public transport. 6 - 8 hour waiting time in the ED.

Out of those 6 clinics, 5 have abandoned bulk billing. The other one does not accept new patients. The gap between the Medicare refund and what a doctor charges is anywhere between $40 and $110. What do you do, put food on the table and stay sick? That's Easy Street?

 

Where's the money going to come from? I'd suggest a good start would be going after the multinationals that have been looting mineral resources owned by Australians for the last six decades. For $10 million, they saved billions in taxes with an advertising campaign against Labor, and a lot of dumb Australians swallowed their garbage. IIRC we have already discussed the low-hanging fruit of tax rorts for the wealthy.

 

I suppose it is difficult for you to feel empathy for welfare recipients, when you are completely ignorant of their circumstances. Much easier to imbibe the Liberal Kool-Aid.

[KhunHeineken]

9 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Plenty of Australians have never paid tax for a variety of reasons which aren't their fault, such as disabilities or being indigenous, being just two examples. A civilised society should nevertheless provide for their old age anyway. If it requires the ATO to require the largest 300 or so companies to actually pay some tax, so be it.

Obviously, being disabled is a genuine reason for not working.  I am not suggesting Australia should become a country that has zero or very little welfare, like Thailand.

 

I am simply stating it appears Australia's generous welfare system is being abused, and over decades, has now become a big drag on the economy.  Do you agree or disagree with this comment?

 

As for the largest 300 companies paying tax, they hold the government to ransom by basically saying, "If you tax us, we will move our operation to another country."  The government know that whilst the company isn't paying tax, the company's employees are, so to call their bluff could mean a loss, not gain.  

 

We saw something similar with manufacturing.  As wages rose, factories moved to countries like China.  Like wages, tax is just another cost.  Raise it, and the company could leave.   

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

MO everyone on this forum is accustomed to you dismissing posts where the facts and argument do not agree with yours.

 

It is classic Liberal ideology to call all welfare recipients dole bludgers. It's a facile assumption, with little evidence to support it. Feel free to post data contradicting my assertion.

Your post went into things like tax incentives, covid, and voting at elections.  Totally way off the point I am making.

 

I did post data.  Did you open the link?  The height of the blue columns stood out as soon as you look at the graph. 

 

It shows Australia's expenditure by function was $170 billion on social security and welfare, and everything else to run the country totals around $300 billion in 2018 - 2019, which was pre covid, for accuracy.  That's a welfare bill of around 36% of total expenditure. 

 

Is this enough data for you?  Are you saying my calculations are incorrect?  If so, show me where.  Is the website wrong?  It's an Australian government website.  

 

As I said in other posts, I am not suggesting Australia should become a country of zero to little welfare.  I am saying Australia's generous welfare system is being abused, and has become a drag on the economy.  Same question to you also, keeping the above data in mind, do you agree or disagree with this comment?   

 

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

f you are single on Jobseeker, you get $278 less per fortnight than a age pensioner. $50 more if you are single with a child. You think you can feed and take care of a child for a fortnight on $50 extra?

I challenge you to live on $23 a day for the next month. Find out for yourself how easy it is.

You either missed the part about the single month getting a house, and a pension, and then the boyfriend, who is on the dole, moves in, or, you chose to ignore it. 

 

They have a tribe of kids because, hey, the more kids you have the more money and the bigger house you get. 

 

Then, nature v nurture kicks in and the kids, who have never seen mum or dad work, ever, will grow up to be the same.  

 

As for the boyfriend, he does a bit of crime, sells a bit of drugs etc.  A great supplement to his welfare.  It can sometimes lead to a short stint in gaol, but that is viewed as an occupational hazard and no more than that.

 

Once again, you focus more on the genuine cases where I am focusing on the abusers. 

 

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Where's the money going to come from? I'd suggest a good start would be going after the multinationals that have been looting mineral resources owned by Australians for the last six decades. For $10 million, they saved billions in taxes with an advertising campaign against Labor, and a lot of dumb Australians swallowed their garbage. IIRC we have already discussed the low-hanging fruit of tax rorts for the wealthy.

 

I suppose it is difficult for you to feel empathy for welfare recipients, when you are completely ignorant of their circumstances. Much easier to imbibe the Liberal Kool-Aid.

I have addressed taxing the big companies.  Should they pay tax, of course, but there is a risk they pack up and leave.  I have no doubt the ATO will go after easier targets. 

 

Again, for the record, you paint a picture of the majority of welfare recipients being genuine.  I would contest that in 2023, that is no longer the case.  Able body people are playing the system in greater numbers.  

[Lacessit]

55 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Your post went into things like tax incentives, covid, and voting at elections.  Totally way off the point I am making.

 

I did post data.  Did you open the link?  The height of the blue columns stood out as soon as you look at the graph. 

 

It shows Australia's expenditure by function was $170 billion on social security and welfare, and everything else to run the country totals around $300 billion in 2018 - 2019, which was pre covid, for accuracy.  That's a welfare bill of around 36% of total expenditure. 

 

Is this enough data for you?  Are you saying my calculations are incorrect?  If so, show me where.  Is the website wrong?  It's an Australian government website.  

 

As I said in other posts, I am not suggesting Australia should become a country of zero to little welfare.  I am saying Australia's generous welfare system is being abused, and has become a drag on the economy.  Same question to you also, keeping the above data in mind, do you agree or disagree with this comment?   

 

You either missed the part about the single month getting a house, and a pension, and then the boyfriend, who is on the dole, moves in, or, you chose to ignore it. 

 

They have a tribe of kids because, hey, the more kids you have the more money and the bigger house you get. 

 

Then, nature v nurture kicks in and the kids, who have never seen mum or dad work, ever, will grow up to be the same.  

 

As for the boyfriend, he does a bit of crime, sells a bit of drugs etc.  A great supplement to his welfare.  It can sometimes lead to a short stint in gaol, but that is viewed as an occupational hazard and no more than that.

 

Once again, you focus more on the genuine cases where I am focusing on the abusers. 

 

I have addressed taxing the big companies.  Should they pay tax, of course, but there is a risk they pack up and leave.  I have no doubt the ATO will go after easier targets. 

 

Again, for the record, you paint a picture of the majority of welfare recipients being genuine.  I would contest that in 2023, that is no longer the case.  Able body people are playing the system in greater numbers.  

For the record, you have not produced one shred of evidence which confirms your assertion the majority of welfare recipients are dole bludgers. Show me the data on that government website that segregates said people from people in genuine need. Try posting numbers instead of assertions.

 

Noted you won't go anywhere near my challenge to live on $23 per day for a month. Perhaps you'd like to be over 60, with age discrimination from employers rife in Australia, and try for living on $50 more a fortnight. Let's make it a year. That would probably put you into the homeless column.

 

You are peddling the same line as the Minerals Council, the multinationals will pack up and leave. A display of your utter naivety. Australia has a stable political system with low corruption. Compared to some of the perilous places they operate, it's a dream ride. Google Kingsgate Gold to see what can happen in other bailiwicks. See how many billions Exxon, Mobil and BP have had to walk away from in Russia.

 

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

44 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

For the record, you have not produced one shred of evidence which confirms your assertion the majority of welfare recipients are dole bludgers.

I have said many are abusing Australia's generous welfare system. 

 

44 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Show me the data on that government website that segregates said people from people in genuine need. Try posting numbers instead of assertions.

 

I posted the dollars, and it's not a pretty picture.

 

44 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Noted you won't go anywhere near my challenge to live on $23 per day for a month. Perhaps you'd like to be over 60, with age discrimination from employers rife in Australia, and try for living on $50 more a fortnight. Let's make it a year. That would probably put you into the homeless column.

This guys seems to be doing quite well. 

 

I post this as an example of an abuser, not because of the drug testing, which would be a separate debate. 

 

 

 

Is the above clip enough data for you to see the point I am making? 

 

I rarely agreed with Scott Morrison, but this comment was spot on, "Welfare has to be fair to those who receive it, but it also has to be fair for those that pay for it."  In my opinion, tax payers are not getting a fair deal with the current welfare system and the abuse of it. 

 

Look at the money and rent assistance he was getting in 2020, he would be getting even more now. 

 

Sadly, it's the people like him that see genuine people, like the other guy in the clip, receive less, or nothing at all. 

 

There are so many like this guy it has become a drag on the economy.   How long would he last in Thailand, for example?  

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Show me the data on that government website that segregates said people from people in genuine need. Try posting numbers instead of assertions.

A funny clip, but the stats are real.  Granted it's back in 2017, but I would think the numbers to be even worse now. 

 

 

 

Here's an article with the numbers.

 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/government-denies-suburb-shaming-in-revealing-welfare-cheat-hot-spots/news-story/a2ca94271c0c75d43dd63ef0645b8673

 

"Queensland’s Caboolture had the highest concentration of people with five or more failures, 387. "

 

These numbers are on top of guys like in the clip in a previous post, who is on a disability pension, so, add guys like him in and the Caboolture figure would look worse. 

 

Here's some stats on Caboolture.  Granted, the stats are a little old, but around the same time as the clip. 

 

https://www.abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2016/31302

 

Scroll down to the Employment area of the page.  Remember, you only have to work 1 hour a week to be deemed as employed.  You can cast your eyes to the right side of the page to see the stats for Australia.

 

As I said, where this post, and the previous, are very much on topic is because these people are being allowed to take money away from genuine recipients and are robbing tax payers. 

 

[LosLobo]

I dislike to bring socio-ideology into this forum but I feel my post is topical and relates to the future of the Aged Pension.

 

No one has mentioned  Saturday's outstanding success of the Labor Party. It  is now governs all of mainland Australia.

 

I would suggest that its success is from it's awareness of the lower and middle classes and its financial ability and eagerness to help them in times of financial hardship. This was evident in the GFC and now with the crippling interest rates and inflation we are now experiencing.

 

I can only seen a better deal for Australian pensioners in the future with a more socially responsible government. 

 

Perhaps this a wake up call for the Liberal Coalition to change their attitude to the less wealthy.

 

 

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I have said many are abusing Australia's generous welfare system. 

 

I posted the dollars, and it's not a pretty picture.

 

This guys seems to be doing quite well. 

 

I post this as an example of an abuser, not because of the drug testing, which would be a separate debate. 

 

 

 

Is the above clip enough data for you to see the point I am making? 

 

I rarely agreed with Scott Morrison, but this comment was spot on, "Welfare has to be fair to those who receive it, but it also has to be fair for those that pay for it."  In my opinion, tax payers are not getting a fair deal with the current welfare system and the abuse of it. 

 

Look at the money and rent assistance he was getting in 2020, he would be getting even more now. 

 

Sadly, it's the people like him that see genuine people, like the other guy in the clip, receive less, or nothing at all. 

 

There are so many like this guy it has become a drag on the economy.   How long would he last in Thailand, for example?  

"I have said many are abusing Australia's generous welfare system".

Do you understand the term begging the question?

Do you understand quoting a statistical sample of one welfare recipient on a staged YouTube video is utterly meaningless?

Australia's welfare system is generous? Try living on the dole with current inflation before making such an egregiously fatuous statement.

How long have you been brainwashed into parroting Liberal pabulum about the unemployed?

Given your claim to have never received a cent of welfare, you have probably never been in a Centrelink office. When I am there, I am hearing people who are under enormous mental and financial stress, begging for help. Not something you have had to experience.

You constantly use deflection and dishonest arguments to buttress your pathetic posts. Your latest is no exception.