Australian Aged Pension

[TroubleandGrumpy]

23 hours ago, Lacessit said:

What are the actual numbers of pensioners living overseas, vs those retired in Australia?

When I see a blanket statement like "huge amount of pensioners living overseas " my BS radar goes on full alert. Along with "large number of dead ones".

Factual data, please.

Try Google - I am sure you can find it too.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

With only 28 million people, yeah, right. 

 

Have you forgotten about Australia's rapidly shrinking manufacturing industry?

 

You have no idea.

 

PwC got in the sh*t because they were "consulted" by the government on tax matters, and then gave their own clients inside information on what the government was planning in relation to tax, so their clients could either maximize profits, or minimize their tax position.    

The amount of people doesn't matter. The resources Australia has does. LPG, coal, rare earths, uranium, iron ore, nickel, copper - the list goes on and on.

You really are the most ignorant troll on this thread.

[Lacessit]

38 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Try Google - I am sure you can find it too.

Asked and answered, do try to keep up.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

The Australian economy had been in poor shape prior to covid.  Soon to hit $1 Trillion in debt, for a country with a population of only 28 million people.

 

No, you are wrong.  Pensioners should have always been paying non resident tax on their pensions. 

 

The proposed changes are not new laws, they just make it easier for the government to collect what should have already been paid for decades, but loopholes seen many slip through the net. 

 

This link comes from an ATO staff member.  Dated December 2021. 

 

https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0J9s0000002ngF/p00172380

 

No.  If that was the case, it would have happened decades ago.

 

As mentioned, the proposed changes are not new laws, just a new way of enforcing the existing laws.  They close loopholes that thousands have been using for decades. 

 

Not sure I agree with you on those ones.  That 'community answer' is very generic - the guy did not really give a detailed explanation - and it is only an opinion.  Checking this out has been very 'interesting'. 

PSS Pension taxation for non-resident | ATO Community

There is no 'definitive' answer provided by either ATO or CLink about if your Age Pension is taxed by ATO if you are living overseas AND it is the only income that you receive. It is technically 'taxable' in that it is counted so that any other income you receive (if any) is taxed at the right rate.

 

Whilst the Pension is included in taxable income, it is generally deemed to not be a taxable payment. However as you have said that may depend on whether that person is a tax resident - that might affect their pension payments being taxed - nothiong is clear. I am not aware that the ATO taxes the age pension payments of a non-resident - therefore I always thought they were exempt. What you are saying is that if you are a non-resident for tax purposes, then ATO will tax your age pension payments and I still doubt that very much.  However, we will see what happens.

 

Perhaps a 'soltuion' is top remain as a tax resdient while living overseas. There is an online test that the ATO provides to determine if and how you can be a tax resident, plus there is a very long detailed ruling.

Questions | Determination of residency status – leaving Australia (ato.gov.au)

Work out your residency status for tax purposes | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au)

Tax Time · Residency for tax purposes (ato.gov.au)

The number 1 issue is 'do you intend to return to Australia (say Yes).

The number 2 issue is 'will you be residing in the same place for more than 2 years' (say No)

The number 3 issue is 'will you be purchasing a property (to live in) overseas' (say No).

That seems to result in you being a tax resident - if you dont stay at the one place for 2+ years, dont own a place, and do intend to return.

 

One of the 'tests' is called 'domicile' - where you legally and technically consider that you live.

Unlike CLink whose definition is deliberately taregetted to exclude ability to get a payment, the ATO test is far more 'technical'.

Your tax residency | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au)

IMO as long as I dont stay/rent anywhere for more than 2 years - then I am a tax resident.

This is further 'proven' by the fact that I only have a Tourist Visa - report every 90 days and apply every 12 months for another.

Likewise, I have  Super Account in Australia that pays taxes to the ATO on pfoits made during the year (15% Net).

Plus banking and other financial ties and an official residence and address - a friends house.

However, it does appear that around about 5 years, it becomes extremely difficult to pass the 'test'.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

• 
• Advanced Member
• •  536
• Gender:Male

 

Posted 1 minute ago

  15 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

There's a lot of psychology around it.

People don't like change, or anything that upsets their routine.  This is more pronounced as people get older. 

Add to that a change that can cost them money, particularly from the tax man, and they are looking only for the reasons why it can't / won't happen, even whilst it's actually happening. 

Put simply, people just don't want to hear it, even when they know it effects them. 

 

The Ostrich Syndrome.  

Yes Indeed - that definitely applies to many older blokes. 

Now kh.heiniken is a psychologist as well as an economist and more...

But I still have him on ignore.

 

Up to you mate. He is a bit 'direct' but I can handle that - no problems at all. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

The Ostrich Syndrome is similar to the My girl is different syndrome. 

People need to believe that they are still an Australian resident for taxation purposes, despite living in Thailand for years.   

They really need to think they are "different" to Paul Hogan. 

 

They can be - see my post - but it aint a definitive situation.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

30 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Asked and answered, do try to keep up.

I can see that - but why not do it yourself?

A quick simple search would give the answer - as shown by all those replies to your 'demand'.

Certainly if a google search did not give you that - and/or it stated something else completely - then by all means 'push back'.

Do try to be civil.

[LosLobo]

42 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Not sure I agree with you on those ones.  That 'community answer' is very generic - the guy did not really give a detailed explanation - and it is only an opinion.  Checking this out has been very 'interesting'. 

PSS Pension taxation for non-resident | ATO Community

There is no 'definitive' answer provided by either ATO or CLink about if your Age Pension is taxed by ATO if you are living overseas AND it is the only income that you receive. It is technically 'taxable' in that it is counted so that any other income you receive (if any) is taxed at the right rate.

 

Whilst the Pension is included in taxable income, it is generally deemed to not be a taxable payment. However as you have said that may depend on whether that person is a tax resident - that might affect their pension payments being taxed - nothiong is clear. I am not aware that the ATO taxes the age pension payments of a non-resident - therefore I always thought they were exempt. What you are saying is that if you are a non-resident for tax purposes, then ATO will tax your age pension payments and I still doubt that very much.  However, we will see what happens.

 

Perhaps a 'soltuion' is top remain as a tax resdient while living overseas. There is an online test that the ATO provides to determine if and how you can be a tax resident, plus there is a very long detailed ruling.

Questions | Determination of residency status – leaving Australia (ato.gov.au)

Work out your residency status for tax purposes | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au)

Tax Time · Residency for tax purposes (ato.gov.au)

The number 1 issue is 'do you intend to return to Australia (say Yes).

The number 2 issue is 'will you be residing in the same place for more than 2 years' (say No)

The number 3 issue is 'will you be purchasing a property (to live in) overseas' (say No).

That seems to result in you being a tax resident - if you dont stay at the one place for 2+ years, dont own a place, and do intend to return.

 

One of the 'tests' is called 'domicile' - where you legally and technically consider that you live.

Unlike CLink whose definition is deliberately taregetted to exclude ability to get a payment, the ATO test is far more 'technical'.

Your tax residency | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au)

IMO as long as I dont stay/rent anywhere for more than 2 years - then I am a tax resident.

This is further 'proven' by the fact that I only have a Tourist Visa - report every 90 days and apply every 12 months for another.

Likewise, I have  Super Account in Australia that pays taxes to the ATO on pfoits made during the year (15% Net).

Plus banking and other financial ties and an official residence and address - a friends house.

However, it does appear that around about 5 years, it becomes extremely difficult to pass the 'test'.

I don't know about the correctness of your other statements but there is no Tourist Visa that requires 90-day reporting and is valid for 12 months, I suggest that you have a Non O Visa.

 

Also, that superannuation profits on investments are generally non-taxable if it is in a retirement account.

 

How Your Superannuation Is Taxed | AustralianSuper

[TroubleandGrumpy]

16 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

I don't know about the correctness of your other statements but there is no Tourist Visa that requires 90-day reporting and is valid for 12 months, I suggest that you have a Non O Visa.

Also, that superannuation profits on investments is non-taxable if it is in a retirement account.

How Your Superannuation Is Taxed | AustralianSuper

 

There are 'technically' no 'Immigrant' Visas in Thailand - they dont have any (unlike Australia and the rest of the first world).

All Expats (long termers) have a 'non-immigrant' Visa - which is technically a long term Tourist Visa - one with added conditions.

That is why 90 day reporting exists - the legal maximum period for a Tourist Visa in Thailand is 90 days.

Likewise, that is why you cannot get another 'Visa' in Thailand - you can only get a 12 month 'extension' of permission to stay (as a Tourist).

That is all 'legal and technical' I know - but that is what my 'argument' (if required) to ATO would be - yes I have legal training and experience.

 

All Super Funds pay 15% tax on their 'earnings' across all their accounts that are in 'accumulation' phase (not individually, only at the total level). Anyone that decides to convert their accumulation account to a 'retirement account' (once over age minimum), means that their account is placed into a 'pool' where the earnings are not taxed.  BUT - it also means that any money paid out (lump or regular) is classified by both ATO and Centrelink as 'income'.  WHEREAS, someone that keeps their account in 'accumulation phase' does not have any withdrawals counted by ATO or CLink as income. 

 

And here is the 'kicker' - once you convert to 'retirement' you cannot put it back as 'accumulation' - A BIG GOTCHA.  I have always taken the view that when the Govt and/or Industry are pushing for people to change/add something, and talking about all the benefits in doing so - look into the details and find what they are not talking about.  My Super Account will remain in the "accumulation' phase for as long as possible - which at the moment is til age 75 - but there are exemptions (which will change - but I will be across them). 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Delete

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

The amount of people doesn't matter. The resources Australia has does. LPG, coal, rare earths, uranium, iron ore, nickel, copper - the list goes on and on.

You really are the most ignorant troll on this thread.

Add wines and beef and lamb...

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I can see that - but why not do it yourself?

A quick simple search would give the answer - as shown by all those replies to your 'demand'.

Certainly if a google search did not give you that - and/or it stated something else completely - then by all means 'push back'.

Do try to be civil.

Point taken, the answer came before I did it myself. My apologies.

I will say your posts are more informative than the repetitive opinions pushed by another poster.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

26 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Point taken, the answer came before I did it myself. My apologies.

I will say your posts are more informative than the repetitive opinions pushed by another poster.

I hear you mate - I will stay out of that if I may 

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Not sure I agree with you on those ones.  That 'community answer' is very generic - the guy did not really give a detailed explanation - and it is only an opinion.  Checking this out has been very 'interesting'. 

PSS Pension taxation for non-resident | ATO Community

There is no 'definitive' answer provided by either ATO or CLink about if your Age Pension is taxed by ATO if you are living overseas AND it is the only income that you receive. It is technically 'taxable' in that it is counted so that any other income you receive (if any) is taxed at the right rate.

 

Whilst the Pension is included in taxable income, it is generally deemed to not be a taxable payment. However as you have said that may depend on whether that person is a tax resident - that might affect their pension payments being taxed - nothiong is clear. I am not aware that the ATO taxes the age pension payments of a non-resident - therefore I always thought they were exempt. What you are saying is that if you are a non-resident for tax purposes, then ATO will tax your age pension payments and I still doubt that very much.  However, we will see what happens.

 

Perhaps a 'soltuion' is top remain as a tax resdient while living overseas. There is an online test that the ATO provides to determine if and how you can be a tax resident, plus there is a very long detailed ruling.

Questions | Determination of residency status – leaving Australia (ato.gov.au)

Work out your residency status for tax purposes | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au)

Tax Time · Residency for tax purposes (ato.gov.au)

The number 1 issue is 'do you intend to return to Australia (say Yes).

The number 2 issue is 'will you be residing in the same place for more than 2 years' (say No)

The number 3 issue is 'will you be purchasing a property (to live in) overseas' (say No).

That seems to result in you being a tax resident - if you dont stay at the one place for 2+ years, dont own a place, and do intend to return.

 

One of the 'tests' is called 'domicile' - where you legally and technically consider that you live.

Unlike CLink whose definition is deliberately taregetted to exclude ability to get a payment, the ATO test is far more 'technical'.

Your tax residency | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au)

IMO as long as I dont stay/rent anywhere for more than 2 years - then I am a tax resident.

This is further 'proven' by the fact that I only have a Tourist Visa - report every 90 days and apply every 12 months for another.

Likewise, I have  Super Account in Australia that pays taxes to the ATO on pfoits made during the year (15% Net).

Plus banking and other financial ties and an official residence and address - a friends house.

However, it does appear that around about 5 years, it becomes extremely difficult to pass the 'test'.

I have not done the online test, as I don't need to. As far as the ATO and Centrelink are concerned, I have a financial interest in, and reside in a house owned by my son. I also return there periodically.

What I do in Thailand is quite opaque to those organizations. AFAIK information flow between the two countries is very limited.

Where I think it could get interesting is those pensioners who have elected to no longer lodge a tax return with the ATO. I have submitted the requisite form, and have not had a peep out of them for two years. One of my friends in Chiang Mai has not put in a tax return for about ten years.

Centrelink says one is supposed to update assets regularly. I don't do it unless I am in Australia.

For those of us who are off the tax radar, the only way for the ATO to collect 32.5% tax is to deduct it from our pensions.

 

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The amount of people doesn't matter.

Too funny. 

 

More workers means more income tax means a bigger economy which means the ability to service more debt. 

 

22 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The resources Australia has does. LPG, coal, rare earths, uranium, iron ore, nickel, copper - the list goes on and on.

So, tax our resources more and make them uncompetitive on the world market and countries will still buy from us.  Really? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Not sure I agree with you on those ones.  That 'community answer' is very generic - the guy did not really give a detailed explanation - and it is only an opinion. 

See where it says "ATO Certified Response?"  You'll have to take it up with Blake, from the ATO. 

 

22 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Whilst the Pension is included in taxable income, it is generally deemed to not be a taxable payment.

Incorrect. 

 

The pension is taxable.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/income-deductions-offsets-and-records/income-you-must-declare/government-payments-and-allowances/#:~:text=You must include taxable Australian,carer payment

 

Taxable pensions, payments and allowances

You must include taxable Australian Government pensions, payments and allowances in your tax return.

Taxable government payments, pensions and allowances include:

• age pension
• carer payment
• Austudy payment
• JobSeeker payment
• Youth allowance
• Defence Force income support allowance (DFISA) where the pension, payment or allowance that it relates to is taxable
• veteran payment
• invalidity service pension, if you are age-pension age or over
• disability support pension, if you are age-pension age or over
• income support supplement
• parenting payment (partnered)
• disaster recovery allowance (but not in relation to 2019–20 bushfires).

This is not an exhaustive list, for a full list of Australian Government payments, pensions and allowances, see:

22 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Perhaps a 'soltuion' is top remain as a tax resdient while living overseas. There is an online test that the ATO provides to determine if and how you can be a tax resident, plus there is a very long detailed ruling.

Questions | Determination of residency status – leaving Australia (ato.gov.au)

Work out your residency status for tax purposes | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au)

Tax Time · Residency for tax purposes (ato.gov.au)

The number 1 issue is 'do you intend to return to Australia (say Yes).

The number 2 issue is 'will you be residing in the same place for more than 2 years' (say No)

The number 3 issue is 'will you be purchasing a property (to live in) overseas' (say No).

That seems to result in you being a tax resident - if you dont stay at the one place for 2+ years, dont own a place, and do intend to return.

 

One of the 'tests' is called 'domicile' - where you legally and technically consider that you live.

Unlike CLink whose definition is deliberately taregetted to exclude ability to get a payment, the ATO test is far more 'technical'.

Your tax residency | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au)

IMO as long as I dont stay/rent anywhere for more than 2 years - then I am a tax resident.

This is further 'proven' by the fact that I only have a Tourist Visa - report every 90 days and apply every 12 months for another.

Likewise, I have  Super Account in Australia that pays taxes to the ATO on pfoits made during the year (15% Net).

Plus banking and other financial ties and an official residence and address - a friends house.

However, it does appear that around about 5 years, it becomes extremely difficult to pass the 'test'.

All set to change to "physical presence" and "time" based legislation, from "domicile" and "intention" based legislation, which is 90 years old and how allowed many expats, including myself, to slip through the net.  

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

They can be - see my post - but it aint a definitive situation.

Seems pretty clear to most accountants and investment firms.

 

In Australia more than 183 days, resident for tax purposes.  Outside Australia for 183 day, non resident for tax purposes.  In Australia between 45 days and 183 days, move to the "factor test" which has some criteria that most expats should be able to meet, but that means 45 days in Australia, every financial year.   

[KhunHeineken]

21 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

There are 'technically' no 'Immigrant' Visas in Thailand - they dont have any (unlike Australia and the rest of the first world).

All Expats (long termers) have a 'non-immigrant' Visa - which is technically a long term Tourist Visa - one with added conditions.

That is why 90 day reporting exists - the legal maximum period for a Tourist Visa in Thailand is 90 days.

Likewise, that is why you cannot get another 'Visa' in Thailand - you can only get a 12 month 'extension' of permission to stay (as a Tourist).

That is all 'legal and technical' I know - but that is what my 'argument' (if required) to ATO would be - yes I have legal training and experience.

I agree. 

 

Thailand does not offer a realistic pathway to permanent residency, let alone citizenship, as Australia does. 

 

A retirement visa gives the holder no more rights here than a tourist entering on a 30 visa exemption stamp. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

20 hours ago, scorecard said:

Add wines and beef and lamb...

And how much of these would you have to export to pay off $1 Trillion of debt?

 

Look at the thousands of dollars in debt increasing by the second. 

 

https://australiandebtclock.com.au

[KhunHeineken]

20 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I will say your posts are more informative

And how informative are yours? 

 

When the last time you posted a credible link debunking anything I have put forward on this thread? 

[KhunHeineken]

19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

As far as the ATO and Centrelink are concerned, I have a financial interest in, and reside in a house owned by my son. I also return there periodically.

Good to finally get some content from you. 

 

So you will meet the 45 days test, and easily meet the the second factor tests of being an Australia citizen, and having family ties. 

 

As it reads to me, you'll have to do 45 days in Australia each financial year.  Do you agree, or disagree?

 

19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

What I do in Thailand is quite opaque to those organizations. AFAIK information flow between the two countries is very limited.

There's also the new policy of Thailand to consider that they will start to tax remitted funds into foreigner's bank accounts. 

 

I haven't read Australia tax treaty with Thailand yet, but if pensioners have to pay, it's around 7500 baht a month.  Link to Thailand's tax brackets posted previously.  

 

19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Where I think it could get interesting is those pensioners who have elected to no longer lodge a tax return with the ATO. I have submitted the requisite form, and have not had a peep out of them for two years. One of my friends in Chiang Mai has not put in a tax return for about ten years.

Centrelink says one is supposed to update assets regularly. I don't do it unless I am in Australia.

For those of us who are off the tax radar, the only way for the ATO to collect 32.5% tax is to deduct it from our pensions.

This is how you, me, and many others, have slipped through the net for decades.  That will change when the proposed changes are legislated.  If we want to remain tax residents of Australia, it will involve a "physical presence" in Australia for either 45 days or 183 days. 

 

As I have said, the pension payer will not also be the tax collector of the same funds.  Why would they be?  They will simply withhold the 32.5% of pension.  

[KhunHeineken]

20 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I hear you mate - I will stay out of that if I may 

 

Tax residency status, for both Australia, and now for Thailand with it's new policy, is like Covid - we are all in this together. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

41 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

See where it says "ATO Certified Response?"  You'll have to take it up with Blake, from the ATO. 

 

Incorrect. 

 

The pension is taxable.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/income-deductions-offsets-and-records/income-you-must-declare/government-payments-and-allowances/#:~:text=You must include taxable Australian,carer payment

 

Taxable pensions, payments and allowances

You must include taxable Australian Government pensions, payments and allowances in your tax return.

Taxable government payments, pensions and allowances include:

• age pension
• carer payment
• Austudy payment
• JobSeeker payment
• Youth allowance
• Defence Force income support allowance (DFISA) where the pension, payment or allowance that it relates to is taxable
• veteran payment
• invalidity service pension, if you are age-pension age or over
• disability support pension, if you are age-pension age or over
• income support supplement
• parenting payment (partnered)
• disaster recovery allowance (but not in relation to 2019–20 bushfires).

This is not an exhaustive list, for a full list of Australian Government payments, pensions and allowances, see:

All set to change to "physical presence" and "time" based legislation, from "domicile" and "intention" based legislation, which is 90 years old and how allowed many expats, including myself, to slip through the net.  

 

Mate - you are defending your error by deflecting.  Rather than be accomodating to you, I will now be 'direct'.

 

The current Pension is $28,514 per year (single).

The current tax free threshold is $18,200 for a tax resident/citizen.

No Pensioner pays income tax on the amount of money they received over $18,200.

 

Unless you can prove otherwise then you are wrong - please admit it and move on - we all make mistakes.

Just the other day I thought I was wrong about something - but I was not - I made a mistake

[TroubleandGrumpy]

37 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I agree. 

Thailand does not offer a realistic pathway to permanent residency, let alone citizenship, as Australia does. 

A retirement visa gives the holder no more rights here than a tourist entering on a 30 visa exemption stamp. 

 

Thanks mate.  And it amazes me that so many Expats think they have 'rights' - but as you said - they have no more 'rights' than a 30 day Tourist - becaue legally that is exactly what they are in Thailand - they are legally an 'Alien' under all Thailand Laws and Statutes. 

 

And you are also right about Residency - I checked it out in detail, including with a lawyer who did lots of those applications every year. My chances of getting Residency, even after completing the enourmous amount of paperwork and paying a large amount of money, were none and buckleys - so we did not bother to proceed.  Unless you worked for years and paid taxes and are married and have bought a property, it is extremely difficult - not impossible but extremely unlikely.

[Lacessit]

34 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Thanks mate.  And it amazes me that so many Expats think they have 'rights' - but as you said - they have no more 'rights' than a 30 day Tourist - becaue legally that is exactly what they are in Thailand - they are legally an 'Alien' under all Thailand Laws and Statutes. 

 

And you are also right about Residency - I checked it out in detail, including with a lawyer who did lots of those applications every year. My chances of getting Residency, even after completing the enourmous amount of paperwork and paying a large amount of money, were none and buckleys - so we did not bother to proceed.  Unless you worked for years and paid taxes and are married and have bought a property, it is extremely difficult - not impossible but extremely unlikely.

I have a pink Thai ID card.

Given the amount of stuff I had to do to get that, I'd say residency is only available to a miniscule proportion of expats.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

And how informative are yours? 

 

When the last time you posted a credible link debunking anything I have put forward on this thread? 

You don't get it, do you?

You're posting opinions on what will happen, not facts. It may or may not happen.

Nothing wrong with having an opinion. It's when said opinion is repeated 100 times on the same thread that it gets on everybody's wick.

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

Mate - you are defending your error by deflecting.  Rather than be accomodating to you, I will now be 'direct'.

 

The current Pension is $28,514 per year (single).

The current tax free threshold is $18,200 for a tax resident/citizen.

No Pensioner pays income tax on the amount of money they received over $18,200.

 

Unless you can prove otherwise then you are wrong - please admit it and move on - we all make mistakes.

Just the other day I thought I was wrong about something - but I was not - I made a mistake

No deflecting at all.  By all means, be as direct as you like. 

 

Here are the resident tax rates and non resident tax rates from the ATO website.

 

Can you show me where is the tax free threshold for a non resident for tax purposes?  See the part $0 to $120,000 is 32.5% tax.  That's on the whole $28,514 once deemed to be a non resident for tax purposes. 

 

We all know there's a tax free threshold if you are a resident for tax purposes, but that's not relevant to most Aussie expats living in Thailand who will be deemed to be a non residents for tax purposes when the new laws are legislated.    

 

Foreign residents tax rates 2023–24

Foreign resident tax rates 2023–24

Taxable income	Tax on this income
0 – $120,000	32.5c for each $1
$120,001 – $180,000	$39,000 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000
$180,001 and over	$61,200 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

 

Australian residents tax rates 2023–24

Resident tax rates 2023–24

Taxable income	Tax on this income
0 – $18,200	Nil
$18,201 – $45,000	19c for each $1 over $18,200
$45,001 – $120,000	$5,092 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $45,000
$120,001 – $180,000	$29,467 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000
$180,001 and over	$51,667 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

[LosLobo]

29 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's when said opinion is repeated 100 times on the same thread that it gets on everybody's wick.

What does 470 times do?

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Thanks mate.  And it amazes me that so many Expats think they have 'rights' - but as you said - they have no more 'rights' than a 30 day Tourist - becaue legally that is exactly what they are in Thailand - they are legally an 'Alien' under all Thailand Laws and Statutes. 

 

And you are also right about Residency - I checked it out in detail, including with a lawyer who did lots of those applications every year. My chances of getting Residency, even after completing the enourmous amount of paperwork and paying a large amount of money, were none and buckleys - so we did not bother to proceed.  Unless you worked for years and paid taxes and are married and have bought a property, it is extremely difficult - not impossible but extremely unlikely.

I believe there are a small amount of foreigners that hold permanent residency here.  The criteria and hoops to jump through are difficult.  

[KhunHeineken]

41 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'd say residency is only available to a miniscule proportion of expats.

Correct.  Only a small amount of foreigners have permanent residency.