Australian Aged Pension

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/13/2024 at 12:43 AM, Lacessit said:

I am talking about using an Australian debit card to withdraw baht from a Thai ATM.

I wonder where you got that idea from.     Better that marrying a Thai women. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/13/2024 at 12:50 AM, Lacessit said:

However, I would argue we are less of a burden on the public purse than pensioners in Australia.

Yawn. 

 

This myth has already been debunked.

[Lucky Bones]

Does anyone know of a current/recent thread about Aus pensions?

6,000+ comments here, most hijacked by one person?

Relevance seems have gone.

Moderators, is a new thread possible? I'm not clever enuff.

[KhunHeineken]

26 minutes ago, Lucky Bones said:

Does anyone know of a current/recent thread about Aus pensions?

6,000+ comments here, most hijacked by one person?

Relevance seems have gone.

Moderators, is a new thread possible? I'm not clever enuff.

This is the Australia Pension thread.  Ask any question you like. 

 

The current topic of debate is the single biggest issue facing Aussie expat pensioners / retirees in decades, but other issues can be discussed. 

 

No need to be nasty about it. 

[Will27]

7 hours ago, Lucky Bones said:

Does anyone know of a current/recent thread about Aus pensions?

6,000+ comments here, most hijacked by one person?

Relevance seems have gone.

Moderators, is a new thread possible? I'm not clever enuff.

I was going to suggest this yesterday.

 

Questions and answers about the OAP like portability, eligibility etc, will get lost in this thread.

 

Can have a new thread called something like "The OAP and Taxation Issues, Ramifications.

 

What do others think?

[Nemises]

1 hour ago, Will27 said:

Can have a new thread called something like "The OAP and Taxation Issues, Ramifications

Or… “What’s your opinion on the likelihood of future OAP Tax changes for those living in Thailand” -  strictly only one post per member permitted. 

[Lacessit]

59 minutes ago, Nemises said:

Or… “What’s your opinion on the likelihood of future OAP Tax changes for those living in Thailand” -  strictly only one post per member permitted. 

That's as likely to happen as me winning Tattslotto. KH posts breed like maggots.

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, Will27 said:

I was going to suggest this yesterday.

 

Questions and answers about the OAP like portability, eligibility etc, will get lost in this thread.

 

Can have a new thread called something like "The OAP and Taxation Issues, Ramifications.

 

What do others think?

The proposed changes to tax residency, remember them, will have a direct effect on pensions, either through being taxed in Australia, or in Thailand, or both.  Why do you think this is not on topic in the pension thread?  

 

The double taxation treaty between Australia and Thailand was put forward as a reason why pensioners will not pay tax in the source country, being Australia, and will only pay tax in Thailand, which is not as much as tax in Australia.  Why do you think this is not on topic in the pension thread also?  

 

Thailand has recently started taxing foreigners.  It's still early days to see how hey tweak their taxing of foreigners, but it's possible pensions are up for taxing as well.  Is this not on topic in the pension thread? 

 

Australia has announced changes to their 90 year old tax residency laws which may or may not impact pensioner living overseas, but will definitely impact part pensioners.  Is this not on topic in the pension thread? 

 

Aussie pensioners are facing some of the biggest changes in decades, from both Australia, and Thailand, and pensions are on the chopping block, and you don't see any of it as being on topic in the pension thread. 

 

There was a thread running "Australian pensioners retired in Thailand" but the OP, Lacessit, requested it be closed. 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

“What’s your opinion on the likelihood of future OAP Tax changes for those living in Thailand” -

Haven't we already seen some change, starting 1st January 2024, by Thailand?

[Will27]

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The proposed changes to tax residency, remember them, will have a direct effect on pensions, either through being taxed in Australia, or in Thailand, or both.  Why do you think this is not on topic in the pension thread?  

 

The double taxation treaty between Australia and Thailand was put forward as a reason why pensioners will not pay tax in the source country, being Australia, and will only pay tax in Thailand, which is not as much as tax in Australia.  Why do you think this is not on topic in the pension thread also?  

 

Thailand has recently started taxing foreigners.  It's still early days to see how hey tweak their taxing of foreigners, but it's possible pensions are up for taxing as well.  Is this not on topic in the pension thread? 

 

Australia has announced changes to their 90 year old tax residency laws which may or may not impact pensioner living overseas, but will definitely impact part pensioners.  Is this not on topic in the pension thread? 

 

Aussie pensioners are facing some of the biggest changes in decades, from both Australia, and Thailand, and pensions are on the chopping block, and you don't see any of it as being on topic in the pension thread. 

 

There was a thread running "Australian pensioners retired in Thailand" but the OP, Lacessit, requested it be closed. 

I've already said why I think this should be a separate topic and your post just reinforces it.

 

You could've said yes or no and the reason why in a sentence or two.

 

But no, you post another Tolstoy length reply rehashing all of the stuff you've posted before.

 

If someone wants to go through posts looking for portability for example, they have to wade through hundreds of irrelevant posts for their answer.

 

So with a new post just for taxation issues, either here or in Thailand, they can use this post for other questions and the taxation thread for all of the taxation issues which I'm sure you will keep us abreast of.

 

BTW, Lacessit's thread was asking about tax status only.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, Will27 said:

I was going to suggest this yesterday.

 

Questions and answers about the OAP like portability, eligibility etc, will get lost in this thread.

 

Can have a new thread called something like "The OAP and Taxation Issues, Ramifications.

 

What do others think?

I think it would only be hijacked again by a trolling sack of sh!t.

If no-one responds to his posts, he has no oxygen. Responding to him only leads to a series of baiting posts.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I've already said why I think this should be a separate topic and your post just reinforces it.

 

You could've said yes or no and the reason why in a sentence or two.

 

But no, you post another Tolstoy length reply rehashing all of the stuff you've posted before.

 

If someone wants to go through posts looking for portability for example, they have to wade through hundreds of irrelevant posts for their answer.

 

So with a new post just for taxation issues, either here or in Thailand, they can use this post for other questions and the taxation thread for all of the taxation issues which I'm sure you will keep us abreast of.

 

BTW, Lacessit's thread was asking about tax status only.

The thread was closed at my request, due to another hijack by the resident d!ckhead.

[KhunHeineken]

11 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

After all of the above, I suppose we should be biting our fingernails for when this alleged new DTA arrives.

I believe Australia's tax treaty with Iceland is the most recent treaty entered into with a participating country.  It came into effect on the 1st January 2024. 

 

https://treasury.gov.au/media-release/iceland-tax-treaty

 

"The source (paying) country may also tax any pensions paid under the social security legislation or other public schemes organised for social welfare purposes of that country."

 

If you open the treaty link, it mentions Article 17 and Article 18, which are related to each other in a similar way to the Thailand treaty of 1989. 

 

I'll await your "interpretation" of it and then post my "interpretation" of it.   These Articles read a little similarly to the Thailand treaty, which you have posted means Australia can not tax pensioners living overseas, yet, the above quote is on the front page.  Remember, you can't just "forget about Article 18."  

 

Dated December 2023. 

 

Two new participating country tax treaties with Ukraine and Brazil.

 

Updating the tax treaties with New Zealand, Korea, and Sweden.  

 

  https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/andrew-leigh-2022/media-releases/australia-negotiate-new-tax-treaties-ukraine-and-brazil#:~:text=The Australian Government is expanding,Republic of Korea%2C and Sweden.

 

If you have a look at the below link, Korea's tax treaty was signed in 1982.  New Zealand lists multiple ranging from 1960 to 2009, and Sweden's was signed in 1981. 

 

Given Australia's unique relationship with New Zealand, if we look at Korea and Sweden being the next to be updated, and they are 1981 and 1982, perhaps it's not too long before they get around to updating Thailand's treaty which is 1989. 

 

https://treasury.gov.au/tax-treaties/income-tax-treaties

 

As I have said in the past, and it's just my opinion, I believe the proposed changes to tax residency and the updating of Australia's tax treaties with the 40 or so countries were timed to compliment each other. 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The thread was closed at my request, due to another hijack by the resident d!ckhead.

You are flaming, trolling, personally attacking, and off topic again.  (not reported by me)

 

You requested the thread closed because you didn't agree with the information being posted on it.  It didn't suit your narrative. 

 

When's the last time you posted any content? 

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I think it would only be hijacked again by a trolling sack of sh!t.

Personal attack, trolling, flaming, abusive, and off topic.  (not reported by me) 

 

When is the last time you posted any content? 

[KhunHeineken]

19 minutes ago, Will27 said:

If someone wants to go through posts looking for portability for example, they have to wade through hundreds of irrelevant posts for their answer.

I just went to the search box at the top of this thread and typed in "portability" and whatever post the word "portability" appears in comes up for the searcher to read.  Simple. 

 

20 minutes ago, Will27 said:

BTW, Lacessit's thread was asking about tax status only.

If Lacessit allowed some latitude, perhaps we could have used his thread to carry on the topic there, but it wasn't to be. 

[LosLobo]

My two cents worth ....

The main problem here is KH, I suggest firstly strict adherence to rule 'Don't feed the Troll' or we will end back where we are now.

As the current issue is Taxation on the AAP in Thailand, I suggest someone be designated with just opening a new topic with this heading.

The heading should include a rider that no repetitive posts from the same person or deviation from the topic will be allowed.

This may help to exclude the usual rubbish from KH and his latest obsessions of the DTA for Germany and Article 19, and possibly give us focus on the issue at hand.

NB Possibly everyone blocking KH may also help.
 

[KhunHeineken]

 

20 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

My two cents worth ....

The main problem here is KH, I suggest firstly strict adherence to rule 'Don't feed the Troll' or we will end back where we are now.

As the current issue is Taxation on the AAP in Thailand, I suggest someone be designated with just opening a new topic with this heading.

The heading should include a rider that no deviation from the topic will be allowed.

This would exclude rubbish like the DTA for Germany and give us focus on the issue at hand.
 

The main problem is those failing to recognize the Australian aged pension may be taxed in Thailand, and may be taxed in Australia, and possibly taxed in both countries.  This leads to Australian pensioners living in Thailand having less pension money per fortnight which is is the most serious issue facing Aussie pensioners in decades, and very much on topic. 

 

The DTA with Germany is not "rubbish."  Australia is updating its DTA's and will eventually update its treaty with Thailand, and it may look very similar to the treaty with Germany, and that's 15% tax from the source country, being Australia.  I posted it as an example of a new treaty. 

 

I have since posted the newest DTA, starting 1st January 2024, with Iceland.  The treaty has Article 17 and Article 19 that reads similarly to Thailand's Article 18 and Article 19, yet on the front page from treasury it states:

 

"The source (paying) country may also tax any pensions paid under the social security legislation or other public schemes organised for social welfare purposes of that country."

 

If, as per another member's "interpretation" Article 18 and 19 in the Thai tax treaty means pensions are not taxed in Australia if you are living in Thailand, why does the above appear? 

 

I was not the one who put forward the DTA with Thailand as tax legislation in which the debate started about pensions being taxed in the source country or otherwise.  Another member put that forward and I have since posted some links to consider. 

 

By all means start another thread, but I disagree that taxing Aussie pensions, and discussing the Thai and Australian legislation that allows it, and for what percentage, and to which country, is not on topic in the "Australian Aged Pension" thread.  It's very much on topic, and the most important topic this thread has ever had.  

[scorecard]

36 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

My two cents worth ....

The main problem here is KH, I suggest firstly strict adherence to rule 'Don't feed the Troll' or we will end back where we are now.

As the current issue is Taxation on the AAP in Thailand, I suggest someone be designated with just opening a new topic with this heading.

The heading should include a rider that no repetitive posts from the same person or deviation from the topic will be allowed.

This may help to exclude the usual rubbish from KH and his latest obsessions of the DTA for Germany and Article 19, and possibly give us focus on the issue at hand.

NB Possibly everyone blocking KH may also help.
 

I blocked him 2 years ago.

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

I blocked him 2 years ago.

I encouraged people to block me, rather than troll and personally attack me, but some members couldn't help themselves.  I have never reported anyone or any post, and they took advantage of that.  This still continues until today. 

 

If they were not interested in the biggest issue for Aussie expat pensioners in decades, added to by Thailand's recent taxing of foreigners, then why read the posts about the topic.  No one forces you to participate. 

 

The main reason you blocked me was because I picked you up on one day you are posting how you were on a services pension, and the next day you were posting how you were on the aged pension, and you can't be on both pensions. 

 

Your only way out was to block me to avoid addressing your misleading and untruthful posting.    

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, LosLobo said:

My two cents worth ....

The main problem here is KH, I suggest firstly strict adherence to rule 'Don't feed the Troll' or we will end back where we are now.

As the current issue is Taxation on the AAP in Thailand, I suggest someone be designated with just opening a new topic with this heading.

The heading should include a rider that no repetitive posts from the same person or deviation from the topic will be allowed.

This may help to exclude the usual rubbish from KH and his latest obsessions of the DTA for Germany and Article 19, and possibly give us focus on the issue at hand.

NB Possibly everyone blocking KH may also help.
 

I find it interesting when I referred to a trolling sack of sh!t, KH automatically assumed I was posting about him. Oops.

[4MyEgo]

Someone suffering delusions of grandeur stated on their 2nd last post on page 201 that I said that you don't pay tax on the Australian Age Pension in Australia.

 

Perhaps he can read my post reply to Will27 on post on page 189, I could copy and paste it but that would take all the fun out of it.

 

The above said I doubt that it would make one bit of difference because a horse with blinkers on, won't turn to look.

 

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

18 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I find it interesting when I referred to a trolling sack of sh!t, KH automatically assumed I was posting about him. Oops.

That's because you are are a predicable one trick pony, Lacessit. 

 

Never any content, just trolling. 

[KhunHeineken]

4 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Someone suffering delusions of grandeur stated on their 2nd last post on page 201 that I said that you don't pay tax on the Australian Age Pension in Australia.

 

Perhaps he can read my post reply to Will27 on post on page 189, I could copy and paste it but that would take all the fun out of it.

 

The above said I doubt that it would make one bit of difference because a horse with blinkers on, won't turn to look.

 

 

 

 

You said sometime ago, the Australian pension is not taxed in Australia, so it is not taxed overseas. 

 

A member put forward the double tax treaty and you begged me to "come out and play."

 

I posted two youtube clips with a guys explaining how double taxation treaties work, and debunked the myth that tax was only paid in the lower tax jurisdiction.  You disregarded it.

 

I then posted Australia's double tax treaty with Germany in which 15% is paid in the source country, being Australia, which was contrary to Jim Quinn's advice, and yours, and you disregard it. 

 

There are none so blind than those who refuse to see. 

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, LosLobo said:

My two cents worth ....

The main problem here is KH, I suggest firstly strict adherence to rule 'Don't feed the Troll' or we will end back where we are now.

As the current issue is Taxation on the AAP in Thailand, I suggest someone be designated with just opening a new topic with this heading.

The heading should include a rider that no repetitive posts from the same person or deviation from the topic will be allowed.

This may help to exclude the usual rubbish from KH and his latest obsessions of the DTA for Germany and Article 19, and possibly give us focus on the issue at hand.

NB Possibly everyone blocking KH may also help.

 

This is very good advice, I recall Will27 suggesting it sometime back, and I am temped, however, there is some kind of weirdness watching a madman type away for hours, thinking he is right about his future predictions (scaremongering) that no one here is interested in, albeit I think I have also become mad to read his posts.

 

His constant deflections and unwillingness to accept that he is wrong, supports my theory/judgement call it what you may, and not responding to him directly as I stated that I wouldn't, although difficult at times, has saved me hours on end, trying to save someone who lost it a long time ago, and I don't even know the bloke, which is the funniest part of it all.

 

The above said, I am now heading off to block him as I am sure it will give me less brain damage and more time to read stuff relevant in today's world, not tomorrow when they are going to drop the nuks...just before I get my age pension, and was going to pay my ZERO taxes to Thailand after I take out all of those permittable deductions.

 

If HK is reading this post, which I know he will, all I have to say is, keep up the good work in your own mind, but not here, do we have to beg....LoL

 

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

6 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

This is very good advice, I recall Will27 suggesting it sometime back, and I am temped, however, there is some kind of weirdness watching a madman type away for hours, thinking he is right about his future predictions (scaremongering) that no one here is interested in.

 

His constant deflections and unwillingness to accept that he is wrong, supports my theory/judgement call it what you may, and not responding to him directly as I stated that I wouldn't, although difficult at times, has saved me hours on end, trying to save someone who lost it a long time ago, and I don't even know the bloke, which is the funniest part of it all.

 

The above said, I am now heading off to block him as I am sure it will give me less brain damage and more time to read stuff relevant in today's world, not tomorrow when they are going to drop the nuks...just before I get my age pension, and was going to pay my ZERO taxes to Thailand after I take out all of those permittable deductions.

More deflection from you. 

 

You said the Australian pnsion is not taxed in Australia so it's not taxed overseas.  WRONG. 

 

What makes me laugh is then you went and did calculations about how much tax one may have to pay, after you stated there is no tax to pay.  How embarrassing. 

 

You begged me to "come out and play" but now you don't like the score you are packing up your bat and ball and going home. 

 

The other thread has been launched.  You can "play" over there and continue trolling and attacking me, yet, you, and others, continue to do it on this thread. 

[Lacessit]

48 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

This is very good advice, I recall Will27 suggesting it sometime back, and I am temped, however, there is some kind of weirdness watching a madman type away for hours, thinking he is right about his future predictions (scaremongering) that no one here is interested in, albeit I think I have also become mad to read his posts.

 

His constant deflections and unwillingness to accept that he is wrong, supports my theory/judgement call it what you may, and not responding to him directly as I stated that I wouldn't, although difficult at times, has saved me hours on end, trying to save someone who lost it a long time ago, and I don't even know the bloke, which is the funniest part of it all.

 

The above said, I am now heading off to block him as I am sure it will give me less brain damage and more time to read stuff relevant in today's world, not tomorrow when they are going to drop the nuks...just before I get my age pension, and was going to pay my ZERO taxes to Thailand after I take out all of those permittable deductions.

 

If HK is reading this post, which I know he will, all I have to say is, keep up the good work in your own mind, but not here, do we have to beg....LoL

 

 

 

 

IMO the poster you refer to even gets oxygen when we use his initials, or refer to him indirectly, even though we are not responding to his posts.

 

Shunning, social control mechanism used most commonly in small tight-knit social groups to punish those who violate the most serious group rules. It is related to exile and banishment, although shunning is based on social rather than physical isolation or separation.

[Will27]

Perhaps as has been suggested previously, if the majority block or just don't reply to his posts, he might run out of steam.

 

[norbra]

My plan B is to set aside 24k thb . As an aged pensioner,Thai tax resident,in case my aged pension payments remitted to Thailand be deemed as assessable taxable income.

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, norbra said:

My plan B is to set aside 24k thb . As an aged pensioner,Thai tax resident,in case my aged pension payments remitted to Thailand be deemed as assessable taxable income.

Crunch some numbers on exchange rates and ATM fees.  You may not have to "remit" anything and just run off an Aussie ATM card.  It may end up cheaper and easier than entering the Thai tax system.  The WISE ATM card is very reasonable. 

 

I would not be surprised if a nation wide Hawala banking system industry is created in Thailand.  Basically, you send Aussie dollars online to someone with an Australian bank account, and then go to their shop in the city / town you live in Thailand and they give you Thai baht, minus some commission.   Migrant workers in Thailand have been doing this for decades because the rates are reasonable and there's no fees.   The gold shops might enter into this space, if they are not already. 

 

One could also go online and Western Union themselves their own money, but that's probably more costly. 

 

Perhaps accountants may offer a service where you remit the funds to them, and they give you Thai baht. 

 

Then, there's the 800k baht for the extension.  It's possible many will pull that out and use agents.  Why not put the tax on the 800k towards an agent and not even have to bother going to the Immigration Office? 

 

You will still be a Thai resident for tax purposes, but just have no money in Thailand for the Thai's to tax, which is funny because you are supposed to be able to show 65k coming in a month, or 800k in the bank, to show you can support yourself in Thailand, but TIT. 

 

It appears the only way they could truly scoop up tax on all remitted funds is by making the use of visa agent completely illegal, overnight, and that's not going to happen as it's too lucrative, and set to become even more lucrative now, and it goes all the way to the top.