Australian Aged Pension

[BB1958]

On 22/06/2017 at 2:14 PM, bazza73 said:

 

[SNIP] I maintain Australian residency. I spend about 10 - 11 months in Thailand, coming back to Australia every six months. I only lose the supplements after six weeks away, still get the base pension which is restored as soon as I land in Australia.

A few months ago, some  ****wit senator was complaining offshore pensioners were not spending their money in Australia. Duh. Perhaps if you guys weren't so dedicated to lining your own pockets, we could afford to live there. Here's a tip - if you want to keep your pensions, don't vote Liberal.

 

Fully agree with Bazza.. The qualifying 35yrs for full portability was upped from 25yrs by the Abbot Gov. The dumb ***tards never did their sums.

 

Our country would SAVE Millions possibly BILLIONS if it ALLOWED portability to those who qualify for a pension. 

An elderly person often costs their home country LARGE sums of money as they age - let "Nick the Greek" F off to Greece and enjoy his remaining years with his friends, back in Greece. Most likely he will be looked after in his Greek homeland as far medical etc.. Saving OZ heaps. Multiply this scenario to ALL who want to live overseas and enjoy their twilight years - the big WINNER is OZ. It is nonsense that "spending the pension in OZ" is helping the economy... Keeping them "breathing" costs FAR more

I agree with Bazza, "dont vote f'ing Liberal"

[moojar]

40 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

Description of the measure

Once the pensioner has been overseas for a period of 6 weeks, their payment rate will change depending on the number of years they lived in Australia during their working life.

Currently, customers can remain absent from Australia for 26 weeks before their pension rate is adjusted. This will decrease to 6 weeks for those who leave Australia on or after 1 January 2017.

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/corporate/budget/budget-2015-16/budget-measures/disability-and-carers/australian-working-life-residence-tightening-proportionality-requirements

 

 

 

 

That same web page says: 

Quote

Information update: This measure has been withdrawn.

 

... which is something I'm reading on various sites.   The planned change was announced in the 2015/16 budget but never passed the senate, and has now been dropped.  

 

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/news/pension-portability-changes-scrapped

 

Doesn't mean it was dropped as Lib policy, so it may return one day...    

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by moojar

[BB1958]

3 minutes ago, BB1958 said:

On 22/06/2017 at 2:14 PM, bazza73 said:

 

[SNIP] I maintain Australian residency. I spend about 10 - 11 months in Thailand, coming back to Australia every six months. I only lose the supplements after six weeks away, still get the base pension which is restored as soon as I land in Australia.

A few months ago, some  ****wit senator was complaining offshore pensioners were not spending their money in Australia. Duh. Perhaps if you guys weren't so dedicated to lining your own pockets, we could afford to live there. Here's a tip - if you want to keep your pensions, don't vote Liberal.

 

Fully agree with Bazza.. The qualifying 35yrs for full portability was upped from 25yrs by the Abbot Gov. The dumb ***tards never did their sums.

 

Our country would SAVE Millions possibly BILLIONS if it ALLOWED portability to those who qualify for a pension. 

An elderly person often costs their home country LARGE sums of money as they age - let "Nick the Greek" F off to Greece and enjoy his remaining years with his friends, back in Greece. Most likely he will be looked after in his Greek homeland as far medical etc.. Saving OZ heaps. Multiply this scenario to ALL who want to live overseas and enjoy their twilight years - the big WINNER is OZ. It is nonsense that "spending the pension in OZ" is helping the economy... Keeping them "breathing" costs FAR more

I agree with Bazza, "dont vote f'ing Liberal"

Of course they DO NOT want you taking your savings with you - hence it may not be about the pension in isolation, LARGE numbers buggering off with $200,000 or $300,000 in savings could affect things - some bright spark could fix this if they wanted - with some "income" incentives, leaving money in OZ... There is no "will" to assist the Elderly or much of this could be resolved and we could live our lives, enjoying the pension we EARNED and the cash WE saved.

[Peterw42]

27 minutes ago, BB1958 said:

Our country would SAVE Millions possibly BILLIONS if it ALLOWED portability to those who qualify for a pension. 

An elderly person often costs their home country LARGE sums of money as they age - let "Nick the Greek" F off to Greece and enjoy his remaining years with his friends, back in Greece. Most likely he will be looked after in his Greek homeland as far medical etc.. Saving OZ heaps. Multiply this scenario to ALL who want to live overseas and enjoy their twilight years - the big WINNER is OZ. It is nonsense that "spending the pension in OZ" is helping the economy... Keeping them "breathing" costs FAR more

I agree with Bazza, "dont vote f'ing Liberal"

I coudnt agree more, if they actually did the research they would realise the savings, less hospital beds, less seats on public transport, less subsidized rates electricity rego etc, meals on wheels. Less carer pensions caring for old and disabled.

Less people in retirement homes and nursing homes. It would be billions saved

 

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by Peterw42

[BB1958]

8 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I coudnt agree more, if they actually did the research they would realise the savings, less hospital beds, less seats on public transport, less subsidized rates electricity rego etc, meals on wheels. Less carer pensions caring for old and disabled.

Less people in retirement homes and nursing homes. It would be billions saved

Hi Peter, hadn't figured all that stuff - cannot understand the "LIBERAL Abbot Gov" extending the qualifying period. Should have left it at 25yrs OR it would (at least on the surface) seem prudent to mandate portability of ALL "qualifying" old age pensions

[moojar]

I realise I posted in the middle of another conversation.  So for those for whom this matters and that missed it, the change to drop the pension payments down to the pro-rata amount (dependant on years of residency) once you've been out of Oz for six weeks has been "withdrawn".  The Libs couldn't get the measure thru the senate.   So it remains at 26 weeks.   

 

This was supposed to start from 1 January 2017.  No idea if they introduced it then and now have to make back payments or something. 

[moojar]

A couple of other government agenda developments.  

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/federal/2017/06/21/migrants-could-face-15-year-pensions-wait.html

 

They want to make it harder (more qualification time required) for older migrants to get Aged / Disability pension: 

Quote

Migrants will be forced to wait up to 15 years before qualifying for aged or disability pensions under new laws bound for federal parliament.

...

Under existing laws, people must have been an Australian resident for 10 years - five of which must be continuous - before applying for a pension.

The government wants to extend this to 10 years of continuous residence - including five years during a person's working life - before they can seek a pension.

Alternatively, migrants may claim a pension after 15 years of continuous residence.

This I don't think will get too much opposition - 'family reunion' migrants that go straight on to welfare are a favourite target of shock jocks and tabloid newspapers.  Pauline Hanson will love it, and the ALP will tie themselves in knots arguing over whether to support it.   

 

The other one being mentioned is the real worry for us:  

Quote

The Turnbull government is also reviving a push to cut off pensions to people after six weeks overseas, as part of a bundle of welfare cuts expected to net almost $900 million in savings.

...

The government is also trying again to stop pension payments to people who've been overseas for six weeks and immediately for permanent departures after previously failing to get the measure through parliament.

 

There is not much being said about this second proposal, all the talk is regarding the elderly migrants thing.  But surely they cannot mean to cut off the pension for every single pensioner after six weeks outside Oz?  I'm hopeful they just mean the pro-rata thing comes in after six weeks away, dependant on years of residency.  

 

If I hear more about it I'll post again. 

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by moojar

[sceadugenga]

The flow of cash out of Australia to expat pensioners is actually a lot less than goes in to overseas pensioners spending time in Australia.

I had the figures somewhere but can't place them right now.

 

 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, sceadugenga said:

The flow of cash out of Australia to expat pensioners is actually a lot less than goes in to overseas pensioners spending time in Australia.

I had the figures somewhere but can't place them right now.

 

 

Sorry, not clear. What do you mean by "overseas pensioners spending time in Australia"?

[sceadugenga]

Living part and full time, extended holidays.

[BEVUP]

1 hour ago, sceadugenga said:

Living part and full time, extended holidays.

Yes so it's ok for overseas folk to come & work in Auss (depriving its Citz when there is a lack of work )sending money back home to set their retirement place up & just to add insult to injury they will be topped up by the Auss Gov if their birth countries pension is lower then Auss's 

So in the meantime they are finding ways to not pay their own Citz who have decided to live elsewhere

 

* Imagine if your child was born in Thailand & worked in Auss, then wanted to come back to retire - That would be halerious as their pension would in from the 500 bt the Thais get to who knows how much

[ELVIS123456]

I hate to say this, but for the first time in a very long time I am thinking I might vote Labor at the next election.  I cannot believe that the Liberals are going to withdraw the right to stay overseas and live on the pension.  If Labor pledges to not do that, and Liberals dont withdraw that policy, I will vote Labor. God that hurt.

 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, ELVIS123456 said:

I hate to say this, but for the first time in a very long time I am thinking I might vote Labor at the next election.  I cannot believe that the Liberals are going to withdraw the right to stay overseas and live on the pension.  If Labor pledges to not do that, and Liberals dont withdraw that policy, I will vote Labor. God that hurt.

 

I just can't see that happening. If payment of pensions stopped for all expats there would be a mass migration back to Australia, probably thousands of displaced people who would be forced to live in poverty. Not to mention all those who have bought houses and car here, have long term Thai partners etc. A lot of the expats would be in their 70's and 80's. The disruption would be catastrophic.

[4MyEgo]

On 07/07/2017 at 2:49 PM, moojar said:

A couple of other government agenda developments.  

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/federal/2017/06/21/migrants-could-face-15-year-pensions-wait.html

 

They want to make it harder (more qualification time required) for older migrants to get Aged / Disability pension: 

This I don't think will get too much opposition - 'family reunion' migrants that go straight on to welfare are a favourite target of shock jocks and tabloid newspapers.  Pauline Hanson will love it, and the ALP will tie themselves in knots arguing over whether to support it.   

 

The other one being mentioned is the real worry for us:  

 

There is not much being said about this second proposal, all the talk is regarding the elderly migrants thing.  But surely they cannot mean to cut off the pension for every single pensioner after six weeks outside Oz?  I'm hopeful they just mean the pro-rata thing comes in after six weeks away, dependant on years of residency.  

 

If I hear more about it I'll post again. 

 

Yes the 6 weeks you are referring to is for the utilities side of things, not the pension per-say, and nothing as far as I am aware has come into affect, i.e. 1 January 2017 as it hasn't been passed in parliament, the only thing that has come into force of late is the old pension age has now gone up to 67 as of the 1st July 2017.  

 

Having said that, someone mentioned that their utilities subsidy got cut off after 6 weeks, so I will stand corrected as I am not on the pension yet, but have been following the changes to date as best I can.

Edited July 8, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[halloween]

3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Yes the 6 weeks you are referring to is for the utilities side of things, no the pension per-say, and nothing as far as I am aware has come into affect, i.e. 1 January 2017 as it hasn't been passed in parliament, the only thing that has come into force of late is the old pension age has now gone up to 67 as of the 1st July 2017.  

That still depends on your DOB, as the age increases were stepped and introduced gradually. AFAIK my retirement age is 65.5 and due next May.

[4MyEgo]

On 06/07/2017 at 11:11 AM, BB1958 said:

Fully agree with Bazza.. The qualifying 35yrs for full portability was upped from 25yrs by the Abbot Gov. The dumb ***tards never did their sums.

 

Our country would SAVE Millions possibly BILLIONS if it ALLOWED portability to those who qualify for a pension. 

An elderly person often costs their home country LARGE sums of money as they age - let "Nick the Greek" F off to Greece and enjoy his remaining years with his friends, back in Greece. Most likely he will be looked after in his Greek homeland as far medical etc.. Saving OZ heaps. Multiply this scenario to ALL who want to live overseas and enjoy their twilight years - the big WINNER is OZ. It is nonsense that "spending the pension in OZ" is helping the economy... Keeping them "breathing" costs FAR more

I agree with Bazza, "dont vote f'ing Liberal"

You really shouldn't single out Nick the Greek because I am sure he paid his taxes, then there is Enzo from Italy, Goran from Macedonia, etc etc etc, these guys just did what the system allowed them to do, and we would do the same, but unfortunately the weight on the welfare system has caught up with all the migrants, single mothers and the like who don't or didn't contribute taxes to the system.

 

I do agree that the country would save money if they allowed the likes of you and me to move overseas and take our pension with us, without having to return if we under the age. They could simply say, hey, you want you want to come back and get your pension, sure, we will waive the 2 year waiting period, but we will cancel Medicare and if you return, you have to wait 12-24 months to get back on it, simple really, but these clowns just don't think it through.

 

What I believe would be a fairer system is that if you live in Australia and have paid taxes for X amount of years then you would be entitled to a pension, not the way it is at the moment, i.e. you don't have to have worked to get the pension, i.e. just have lived in Australia for 35 years grants you the full pension, but if you worked 35 years, paid your taxes and left the country for a better quality of life overseas, you have to return and wait for 2 years, (I am talking if you are under the OAP age and then have to return when you reach it), then make up a bullshit story that your back to stay, after 2 years it then becomes portable so you can go back to where you came from again with your pension. The maths just don't work for me, you should be granting those who worked all their lives and paid taxes to go and get their pension when they reach the OAP age and stop throwing money at those that haven't worked and paid taxes.

 

What a mess !

Edited July 8, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

10 minutes ago, halloween said:

That still depends on your DOB, as the age increases were stepped and introduced gradually. AFAIK my retirement age is 65.5 and due next May.

Lucky you, mine is due in about 10.5 years when I will be 67.5 years of age, but by then it will be 70 for certain, so I am not and have not depended on the pension, but if still kicking when the time and age is right, I will give it a go.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

You really shouldn't single out Nick the Greek because I am sure he paid his taxes, then their is Enzo from Italy, Goran from Macedonia, etc etc etc, these guys just did what the system allowed them to do, and we would do the same, but unfortunately the weight on the welfare system has caught up with all the migrant, single mothers and the like who don't or didn't contribute taxes to the system.

 

What I believe would be a fairer system is that if you live in Australia and have paid taxes for X amount of years then you would be entitled to a pension, not the way it is at the moment, i.e. you don't have to have worked to get the pension, i.e. just have lived in Australia for 35 years grants you the full pension, but if you worked 35 years, paid your taxes and left the country for a better quality of life overseas, you have to return and wait for 2 years, (I am talking if you are under the OAP age and then have to return when you reach it), then make up a bullshit story that your back to stay, after 2 years it then becomes portable so you can go back to where you came from again with your pension. The maths just don't work for me, you should be granting those who worked all their lives and paid taxes to go and get their pension when they reach the OAP age and stop throwing money at those that haven't worked and paid taxes.

 

What a mess !

You can be on the dole the whole of your life and be entitled to a full aged pension on retirement. People like myself who worked all their lives, contributed to a super scheme, paid taxes on it going in and coming out, are penalised because we have a bit of extra income. I lose more than half my aged pension because of super and interest on my term deposits, even though the interest I receive is less than what they deem interest rates to be. It's the wage earner/taxpayer that is royally screwed in Australia, the people that get the free ride, free housing, free medical, generous welfare payments etc, are the bludgers.

[Flying Kiwi]

11 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Yes the 6 weeks you are referring to is for the utilities side of things, not the pension per-say, and nothing as far as I am aware has come into affect, i.e. 1 January 2017 as it hasn't been passed in parliament, the only thing that has come into force of late is the old pension age has now gone up to 67 as of the 1st July 2017.  

 

Having said that, someone mentioned that their utilities subsidy got cut off after 6 weeks, so I will stand corrected as I am not on the pension yet, but have been following the changes to date as best I can.

OK, this is what I can tell you all regards supplements etc with your pension WHILE living overseas. I have an email dated mid June this year from C/L confirming my pension and I live in CM and have been back nearly 3 months.

 

Here it is, I still get the Energy Supplement @ $ 14.10 AND I get the Pension supplement of $65.90 per fortnight these will continue for the first 26 weeks since the date I left OZ. 

 

Hope this clears the matter up I have jumped through all the hoops before leaving OZ so I have a very good understanding of the regulations regards getting your pension while overseas.

 

In fact I would have to say that C / L have been very helpful ( don't faint ) I had a  number of issues that needed fixing and they helped me every step of the way, advice when talking be them have all your paper work with you LOOK at the MY GOV web site it's very comprehensive be polite it goes a very long way DON'T say well my friend told me this etc.

 

Good Luck

[halloween]

4 minutes ago, Flying Kiwi said:

OK, this is what I can tell you all regards supplements etc with your pension WHILE living overseas. I have an email dated mid June this year from C/L confirming my pension and I live in CM and have been back nearly 3 months.

 

Here it is, I still get the Energy Supplement @ $ 14.10 AND I get the Pension supplement of $65.90 per fortnight these will continue for the first 26 weeks since the date I left OZ. 

 

Hope this clears the matter up I have jumped through all the hoops before leaving OZ so I have a very good understanding of the regulations regards getting your pension while overseas.

 

In fact I would have to say that C / L have been very helpful ( don't faint ) I had a  number of issues that needed fixing and they helped me every step of the way, advice when talking be them have all your paper work with you LOOK at the MY GOV web site it's very comprehensive be polite it goes a very long way DON'T say well my friend told me this etc.

 

Good Luck

If you were to return to Oz after the 26 weeks elapsed, would that clock be reset for another 6 months after a short stay?

I have a taxi licence and considering a month or so work each year to access the $6500 annual ($250/fn) earning allowance, but the financial gains are a bit marginal. OTOH an extra $80/w for 6 months would make it look sweeter.

[Flying Kiwi]

Just now, halloween said:

If you were to return to Oz after the 26 weeks elapsed, would that clock be reset for another 6 months after a short stay?

I have a taxi licence and considering a month or so work each year to access the $6500 annual ($250/fn) earning allowance, but the financial gains are a bit marginal. OTOH an extra $80/w for 6 months would make it look sweeter.

If you went back at approx 6 month point after 2 weeks you would then be eligible for the supplements etc  BUT I was told by C/L if leave again before the other 6 months has been completed supplements will stop. You also have tore apply for your pension card when you go back because it's cancelled 6 weeks after you leave the country

[halloween]

4 minutes ago, Flying Kiwi said:

If you went back at approx 6 month point after 2 weeks you would then be eligible for the supplements etc  BUT I was told by C/L if leave again before the other 6 months has been completed supplements will stop. You also have tore apply for your pension card when you go back because it's cancelled 6 weeks after you leave the country

OK, so as I understand it the full pension will only be paid outside the country for a maximum of 26 weeks per year.

But I'm still wondering what would happen if I was away for say 46 weeks. The full pension should be restored on return (?), then if I work 6 weeks and leave???? This is based on claiming residence of OZ but doing a lot of traveling, apparently I can claim (subject to approval) tax residence this way.

[4MyEgo]

59 minutes ago, Flying Kiwi said:

OK, this is what I can tell you all regards supplements etc with your pension WHILE living overseas. I have an email dated mid June this year from C/L confirming my pension and I live in CM and have been back nearly 3 months.

 

Here it is, I still get the Energy Supplement @ $ 14.10 AND I get the Pension supplement of $65.90 per fortnight these will continue for the first 26 weeks since the date I left OZ. 

 

Hope this clears the matter up I have jumped through all the hoops before leaving OZ so I have a very good understanding of the regulations regards getting your pension while overseas.

 

In fact I would have to say that C / L have been very helpful ( don't faint ) I had a  number of issues that needed fixing and they helped me every step of the way, advice when talking be them have all your paper work with you LOOK at the MY GOV web site it's very comprehensive be polite it goes a very long way DON'T say well my friend told me this etc.

 

Good Luck

Thanks for that, as I thought 26 weeks before they cut out the subsidy for utilities, meaning  it wasn't passed through legislation 1 January 2017 as per CentreLink's website, they should take it down as it is misleading.

[4MyEgo]

30 minutes ago, halloween said:

OK, so as I understand it the full pension will only be paid outside the country for a maximum of 26 weeks per year.

But I'm still wondering what would happen if I was away for say 46 weeks. The full pension should be restored on return (?), then if I work 6 weeks and leave???? This is based on claiming residence of OZ but doing a lot of traveling, apparently I can claim (subject to approval) tax residence this way.

You sound a little confused, its not the pension that gets cancelled or reduced, its the subsidy for the electricity etc etc, your pension remains the same.

 

Hope that clears things up.

[Flying Kiwi]

LAST comment on this, if you have not clocked up at least 35 years working in AUSTRALIA before you retire you will only get the  full pension for the first 26 weeks out of the country AFTER that your pension is calculated on the years worked in OZ from the age of 16.

 

Any doubts on this will be cleared up by simply looking at the information on the Mygov web site, it even gives you the method of calculation.

 

 

[halloween]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

You sound a little confused, its not the pension that gets cancelled or reduced, its the subsidy for the electricity etc etc, your pension remains the same.

 

Hope that clears things up.

It was the subsidy I was talking about. An extra $1040 (13 x $80) on top of the $6500 annual allowance (minus tax) would be nice to have.

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

It was the subsidy I was talking about. An extra $1040 (13 x $80) on top of the $6500 annual allowance (minus tax) would be nice to have.

Yes it would, but if your not there, you can't really argue as its for electricity etc etc

 

Q: What's the $6,500 annual allowance - tax ?

Edited July 8, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[Freed1948]

Anybody get the special energy allowance? The one negotiated by Nick Xenophon!!

[halloween]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Yes it would, but if your not there, you can't really argue as its for electricity etc etc

 

Q: What's the $6,500 annual allowance - tax ?

You are allowed to earn $250/fn without loss of pension, and this accumulates for up to 1 year, or $6,500. So I can return, work for as long as necessary to earn that amount.

The fly in the ointment is the tax @ 32c/$ for a tax non-resident, BUT if I apply to the tax office can get a ruling that i remain a resident reducing tax to 19c, as long as I maintain other residence requirements. Once a ATO ruling is issued, remains in force until withdrawn.

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by halloween

[moojar]

11 hours ago, halloween said:

You are allowed to earn $250/fn without loss of pension, and this accumulates for up to 1 year, or $6,500. So I can return, work for as long as necessary to earn that amount.

The fly in the ointment is the tax @ 32c/$ for a tax non-resident, BUT if I apply to the tax office can get a ruling that i remain a resident reducing tax to 19c, as long as I maintain other residence requirements. Once a ATO ruling is issued, remains in force until withdrawn.

 

I happen to be waiting on a call-back from the ATO to ask about this 'exemption' thing.  In my case I want to sell an investment property in the spring a year or two from now, then quit work and "go travelling" for more than half of that financial year. 

 

The non-resident tax rates are worse than 32.5% btw - it's 32.5% of every dollar up to $80k or $90k, and more beyond that - 45% for anything over $180k if you are lucky enough to make that much. 

 

But back on topic, I would honestly be surprised if they give you dispensation to come to Oz once per year for as long as it takes you to earn the $6500, and be treated as 'resident' for tax purposes.  But I am no expert - I really hope you can do that!  Will be interested to hear what they say when you enquire. 

 

This page covers the residency tests - it's not just the '183 day test', as you know.   

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/international-tax-for-individuals/in-detail/residency/residency---the-resides-test/

 - the page covers both 'incoming' and 'outgoing' residents.