The New Colonizers

[Ulysses G.]

My point is GH, that many westerners have chosen to move away from the mass materialism which is so rampant in the west.

B.S.

They talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk.

[astor]

Well, you are welcome to come to my island which only has small local shops and the prices of many things (like vegetables for instance) are double those of the mainland. I am sure the shopkeepers here would welcome your support

The island is generally more expensive than the mainland ,because is more difficult to carry the goods. You should know it.

Even on islands off Pattaya (Ko lan etc) everything is more expensive compared to the mainland. Or would you like a nice Carrefour also in Ko lan or Ko Samet ? It woul be a really beautiful landscape to be seen for the tourists.

[sbk]

The price of some goods tripled in a month. I find it highly unlikely that is due to the cost of carrying it over since the price of fuel did not triple, the cost of the ferry did not triple nor did their rents.

And a 100% markup seems a tad excessive to me, but what do I know? I've only lived here for 19 years and watched the prices of food and goods on this island skyrocket while the prices on the mainland edged up only marginally.

[yorkman]

Well I am sure you can work that one out for yourself, "captive" audience, they can more or less charge what they like. Triple though? Jeez.

It is relevent to this thread though. Tesco (Lotus) are notorious with their mini stores. They undercut the opposition, wait until they have the market sewn up, then ramp the prices up again. Its only that they themselves have competition in other countries that keeps them in check.

So, if this is the future, lets hope Carrefour etc etc do the same

[draggons]

And where does GH do his shopping in Saudi, little corner shop or all catered for by some multinational?

Tesco may well do away with a few dusty old shops with out of date foods but all the local markets with fresh produce are still thriving.

We buy all our fish, meat and veg localy but for sure go to the supermarkets once a week to stock up on western essentials.

SBK see where you're comming from. It's the same on the Scottish islands, higher prices even in the same chains.

[sbk]

Yup, was quite painful to have to go through too

Didn't know about the ramping up prices tactic once the smaller competition was gone tho. That's pretty dastardly. But, big business is here to make a profit, not make the world a better place. Same goes for small business too, for that matter.

[Galong]

It is relevent to this thread though. Tesco (Lotus) are notorious with their mini stores. They undercut the opposition, wait until they have the market sewn up, then ramp the prices up again. Its only that they themselves have competition in other countries that keeps them in check.

Please tell us what is your source for this information.

[astor]

From Pattaya mail current issue http://www.pattayamail.com/current/news.shtml

A new Lotus branch will be open in Pattaya . Despite the right complains by the local shopkeepers the local autorities have bent to the arrogance of these multinationals. For my part I be on the side of these small shopkeepers, wich rightly fears about theirs future.

Maybe some of them will be hired by Lotus express . So that employers will became employees.

I will never be a customer of these voraciuos multinationals. They will never have a cent from me.

I will give my money to the poor people at work and not at these billionaires.

Progress is progress. How did you get to Thailand, by pack horse or did you fly?

No; I arrived here by the donkey

Do you have a car/pickup or motorcycle, thus doing a cobbler out of his trade.

Tesco employees pay tax on their salaries,

Really ? I don't knew it. Less evil that Eric is arrived to tell me it.

unlike most small shop owners.

Tesco supports many local charities,

I had to get on Thai forum to discover that multinationals are benefactors.

something I've never seen a local shop doing.

Instead I seen them.

Wake up, this is the 21st century.

Do you have a mobile phone?

Do you have electricity?

Oh, I see, somethings modern are OK.

You must to wake up; not me. Because I think that you be under general anaesthetic by the mawkishness of these giants of the trade.

[GuestHouse]

And where does GH do his shopping in Saudi, little corner shop or all catered for by some multinational?

I buy my vegitables at the vegitable market (local produce), my fish at the Fresh Fish Market (local catch) and I shop at the local shops - There is nothing that could be described as a supermarket within 160 Kms of here.

[yorkman]

Please tell us what is your source for this information.

Certainly. I have a brother and sister still live in the UK. In the village where my sister lives, Tesco did just that (opened a mini store, killed off the opposition, even a bank branch!, and then prices shot up) . And then miraculously when a Netto stored opened there was a price war, prices actually fell in an inflationary climate. Oh what a shock!

Just check how many times they have been investigated by the OFT for price fixing, speculative land purchasing to stifle opposition etc etc. In other words, do your own research (meant jokingly, dont take offence)

Its not some evil empire as some like to make out, but as said above "big business is here to make a profit, not make the world a better place"

I just hope the competition does the same or its not an attractive prospect.

[astor]

Despite the right complains by the local shopkeepers the local autorities have bent to the arrogance of these multinationals.

Nope, the will of the people. At the public meeting, more than twice as many voted "for"! Funny how you ignore that.

Let stand the obviousness please. If you have a relative who risk his job do to the invasion of these multinationals maybe you should think different.

I don't have anything against the hypermarkets, provided it meets a certain balance.

In Pattaya there are already two Big C, two Lotus one Carrefour , and another megastore is under construction between the beach and second road. I think that is enough.

Does really needs another Lotus?

Is the exaggeration that doesn't good, because it's break those balances to wich I was referring. Now the situation risk to be unbalanced in favour of these megastores, and that can create social friction.

For my part I be on the side of these small shopkeepers

I be not on their side, because they not be on my side

Why? Are the multinationals on your part?

Do you know who are you for them? You are not a people ,but you are a consumer , a chicken to budget.

If you are a their employee , you are a human resource just like the oil, the coal, the gas etc..

with their arrogance, poor service, small selection, need to bargain, ripping off everyone if possible but especially farangs.

Maybe some of them will be hired by Lotus express .

Very doubtful, because they are too mean and arrogant. However, their offspring might. The new Lotus will bring more money into the area and generally help the economy around there.

So that employers will became employees.

And so? Are they owed their status in perpetuity at the expense of the consumers? But they can buy shares in the company and become owners along with countless others. Then they can hope Lotus does well and perhaps end up with more in retirement than they would have from the miserable little shop.

I will never be a customer of these voraciuos multinationals. They will never have a cent from me.

I will always be whenever possible. Much greater variety of products, much better service and quality, prices almost always fair and reasonable, determined by competition in the market. I'm looking forward to the new Central Festival. Wish Frye's, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, and El Ranchero Mexican--among many others--would come in!

I will give my money to the poor people at work and not at these billionaires.

Most Lotus employees appreciate their jobs, and many shareholders not particularly rich. Me, I can't afford to give away money, but glad you're lucky enough to be in such an enviable position.

[yorkman]

Is it just me? Or did anybody else understand that?

I am sure you have a very valid point of view Astor, but between the quoting and the highlighting I do not understand your last post

[astor]

Despite the right complains by the local shopkeepers the local autorities have bent to the arrogance of these multinationals.

Nope, the will of the people. At the public meeting, more than twice as many voted "for"! Funny how you ignore that.

Let stand the obviousness please. If you have a relative who risk his job do to the invasion of these multinationals maybe you should think different.

I don't have anything against the hypermarkets, provided it meets a certain balance.

In Pattaya there are already two Big C, two Lotus one Carrefour , and another megastore is under construction between the beach and second road. I think that is enough.

Does really needs another Lotus?

Is the exaggeration that doesn't good, because it's break those balances to wich I was referring. Now the situation risk to be unbalanced in favour of these megastores, and that can create social friction.

For my part I be on the side of these small shopkeepers

I be not on their side, because they not be on my side

Why? Are the multinationals on your part?

Do you know who are you for them? You are not a people ,but you are a consumer , a chicken to budget.

If you are a their employee , you are a human resource just like the oil, the coal, the gas etc..

[samran]

this is an argument between the "stop the world I want to get off brigade" and the "let competition rule brigade".

I have no problem with a tesco express coming in, killing off the competition and then jacking up prices. If they do so, it will send a signal that the market is ripe for picking someone else will come in and offer them a run for their money. So be it. With any luck, it is a mom and pop who comes in - ideally with a better targeted product, at the right price.

[yorkman]

this is an argument between the "stop the world I want to get off brigade" and the "let competition rule brigade".

I have no problem with a tesco express coming in, killing off the competition and then jacking up prices. If they do so, it will send a signal that the market is ripe for picking someone else will come in and offer them a run for their money. So be it. With any luck, it is a mom and pop who comes in - ideally with a better targeted product, at the right price.

Yes of course. But I doubt it will be the mom and pop.

It will be other huge comglomerates, Carrefour etc, and no doubt if Walmart get a sniff that this is a profitable market they will be in too.

Its a shame really, the death of an old culture absorbed into the greedy west. But Thailand cannot have it both ways can they?

[Galong]

Please tell us what is your source for this information.

Certainly. I have a brother and sister still live in the UK. In the village where my sister lives, Tesco did just that (opened a mini store, killed off the opposition, even a bank branch!, and then prices shot up) . And then miraculously when a Netto stored opened there was a price war, prices actually fell in an inflationary climate. Oh what a shock!

Just check how many times they have been investigated by the OFT for price fixing, speculative land purchasing to stifle opposition etc etc. In other words, do your own research (meant jokingly, dont take offence)

Its not some evil empire as some like to make out, but as said above "big business is here to make a profit, not make the world a better place"

I just hope the competition does the same or its not an attractive prospect.

Thanks Yorkman... that's all the info I need. I wonder if the 'powers that be' here realize this or care about this.

[lazeeboy]

the smaller thai shops are over priced and the products arn't fresh ,where as the new wave of big chains are cheap and fresh ,and greet you with a smile ..

[LivinLOS]

Sorry but mom and pop lost me when they try to rip me off..

The 'local stores' had no service, no fixed prices, out of date products, poor hygiene, etc.. Why would I support that ?? If a mom and pop was run like a modern store with real fixed prices and fresh well stocked items then by all means I would shop there.

I still shop at the wet market for fish and fresh veg, most meats (beef is a bit better in the supermarkets) and all my packaged goods through a supermarket. Good compromise.

If you want a dusty tin of milk with a sell by date of last Aug, an emergency roll of 'finger through' loo roll, a shot of lao khao, or cigarettes in amounts less than one packet then by all means head to the mom and pop shop and barter with the toothless bettlenut chewing granny or the school age child who invent the prices as they go along.

[samran]

this is an argument between the "stop the world I want to get off brigade" and the "let competition rule brigade".

I have no problem with a tesco express coming in, killing off the competition and then jacking up prices. If they do so, it will send a signal that the market is ripe for picking someone else will come in and offer them a run for their money. So be it. With any luck, it is a mom and pop who comes in - ideally with a better targeted product, at the right price.

Yes of course. But I doubt it will be the mom and pop.

It will be other huge comglomerates, Carrefour etc, and no doubt if Walmart get a sniff that this is a profitable market they will be in too.

Its a shame really, the death of an old culture absorbed into the greedy west. But Thailand cannot have it both ways can they?

I think Thailand can have it both ways. While mum and pop shops are an anachronsim, Thailand will always have fresh and wet markets, as well as a vibrant street food culture who serve a great product (mostly) which will hold the tesco expresses of the world in check. Luckily for thailand, at 9pm on a wesndesday night, my only option for food isn't a sole tesco express located on the high street with a stale donut or overpriced microwave meals. I don't really have any sympathy for bad business practices - ones that rop off thai's themselves.

[JSixpack]

Maybe some of them will be hired by Lotus express .

Very doubtful, because they are too mean and arrogant. However, their offspring might. The new Lotus will bring more money into the area and generally help the economy around there.

That's a rather blinkered way of looking at the reality of Thai Ecconomics.

Cough. Economics is economics, pal. Just to say the phrase "Thai Economics" indicates you've put on the special blinkers that the average Thai has been brainwashed into wearing daily. I'm so thankful I wasn't born a Thai and brainwashed by the Thai school system and government controlled media. Aren't you?

Parenthetically, I can't help but note that you can't even spell the word economics correctly.

Thailand is unique insomuchas Thai people enjoy an extremely high level of private property and business ownership across a wider spectrum of society than is found in most countries - High levels of Land, Home and Business ownership give rise to many of the characteristics of Thai society that we associate with Thai life and culture.

Let's see the stats. Sayin' so don't make it so. Let's include share ownership as well when we compare, too.

In any case, many of the characteristics of Thai society that we associate with Thai life and culture are simply the result of the poverty, ignorance, and fear typical of Third World cultures. The average Thai, with his pathetic income of 7000 baht/mo, would be ecstatic to trade the quaint, backward, scenic aspects that we farang love--so selfishly and condescendingly--for the kind of living standard that we always enjoyed back in our developed home countries where the markets were in fact much freer than they are in Thailand.

You failed to mention, too, how much of the value of the "High levels of Land, Home and Business ownership" is concentrated in the hands of the very few at the top. That has been the case since forever, and it is the multinationals who give the average Thai his best chance of breaking that stranglehold--which is one reason that the government goes to such lengths to keep out foreign competition.

Mom and Pop's store might not be as 'ecconomically efficient' as a major international mega-store, but neither is it syphoning off profits off shore (and onshore into a very restricted number of pockets).

The multinationals deserve just compensation for the tremendous good they do for the economy. They are paid in baht and eventually those baht must be reinvested--by somebody--in Thailand, since that is the only place that baht can be spent. So many of the products in the multinationals are local products or manufactured locally. Anyone can buy shares of the multinationals as well, notably in the local subsidiary, and share in the profits.

The mom-and-pop stores keep their profits in their own families and only hire family members, unless they can take advantage of somebody who's very hard up indeed.

The micro ecconomy of home run businesses, provided livable incomes to vast numbers of people in Thailand is efficient in that very sense of providing meals on plates, school fees paid and roofs over heads.

How miserable and desperate the average quality of those meals, schools, and roofs. Thais know that quite well. They want the standards of developed countries, whether you enjoy watching poor noodle vendors pushing carts on the streets or not. Who's got the capital for that development? It can only come from foreign investment, and that's exactly what the Thai government restricts for the sake of the Thai elite. It's got nothing to do with Thai culture, but just the privileged wanting to keep their positions as they always do whenever and wherever they can. Economics is economics.

[astor]

I read that some of you ,are praising the visrtues of hypermarket compared to the traditional shops.

Better service, grater hygiene , fresh products etc.. Notting of more false.

Today I went to Carrefour (sometimes I go there, strange but true)

But I had to suffer the annoying queues for pay.

The Carrefour has 40 desks but only 8 were opened. 8 to 40. I had to wait 15 minutes for pay. And that would be a good service? Have they afraid to hire some cashier more?

Also 7/ 11, and F.M. have the same defect. They have two desks but only one is opened , and I never understand that.

Fresh products? But the problem is ,that some products are a bit too fresh. The fruit. I'm sorry to say that , but the fruit in the hypermarket is expensive and is disgusting. You very lucky if you can find some ripe fruit in there. So I buy fruit at the traditional markets, has a fragrance and a flavor.

Hygiene? Some few days ago in a great hypermarket I saw a very big rat ,that running among the shelves ,between the amazement of customers.

Really a very great hygiene, congratulations.....

[Heng]

There are plenty of local "moms and pops" who are doing quite well leasing their property to Tesco Lotus, in particular Tesco Lotus Express (which requires a minimal amount of land area, unlike their hypermarkets). 12 year contracts, and they pay their rent on time. And if God forbid Tesco Lotus one day goes out of business here, oh well, mom and pop still own their property. Not sure what that colonization whinging was all about?

If you have suitable property(s), feel free to contact Khun Anothai at the Tesco Lotus headquarters at the Modernform Building on Srinakarin Rd.

[Yknot]

A new Lotus branch will be open in Pattaya . Despite the right complains by the local shopkeepers the local autorities have bent to the arrogance of these multinationals.

I understand you concern for the profits of the local merchants. I think you would rethink you opinion, if you thought of the customers, particularly those less fortunate. As many others have noted, the increased competition will result in lower prices and better goods.