As A Generalisation

[seonai]

Kat Babe I am seriously working on the dancin' in my pants stuff xxx

[sylviex]

Don't turn off the sex tap. You didn't when we met so why do it now ? Oh, I get it, no sex is punishment for us not changing which we told you we would not do before you moved into our, sorry my condo.

I find "Don't turn off the sex tap" interesting. I have encountered similar attitudes and remarks many times.

While some women may sometimes refuse sex for "punishment", I think unwillingness to have sex mostly occurs when the woman is upset about some other incident or aspect of the relationship. In those cases, the woman will simply not want sex, and may be further upset by the man's apparent insensitivity if he tries to initiate it. This can become a downward spiral.

BTW, I find the comment about the condo interesting, too. It's the kind of flaw in unequal "relationships" that tends to doom them, I think.

Edited April 6, 2008 by sylviex

[PeaceBlondie]

Everybody is unique, especially in their sexuality. Lots of men, especially older men, do not want sex (much at all). Sexuality is not something to be manipulated in genuine relationships.

[Datsun240Z]

Firstly....why would you want to fake orgasms ? I'd rather have the real thing than a fake any day.

its a common thing for a woman to fake an orgasm in order to put an end to what is possibly boring sex. if the man isnt 'on target', if the woman is simply too tired, or if she just cant (for whatever reason) she may fake an orgasm in order to make the man feel better and to get it over with.

right or wrong, thats pretty much the truth of it. sorry blokes.

(i am speaking for many women here, and am not saying whether its wrong or right - just pointing out a fact)

Pretty bullshit here, even i'f your tired you can easy get orgasm, it's in you brain.. To much thinking ruines the orgasm

[ade100]

I remember one of those rather sexist jokes that gets sent around the internet that, of course, I totally disapprove of, but never the less made me chuckle went something like:

Why do women fake their orgasms? Because they think we care.

I also remember reading in a novel about a woman who was undergoing psychotherapy (the name of which I forget), the therapist saying that denying sex in a relationship was generally the action of a person who felt totally powerless and was trying to recover some sort of control.

So my point is…I really have no idea…

BTW what happened to the OP who now appears to be shaking her but around and is banned?

[suegha]

Banned for naughty behaviour!

[bonobo]

It's not all about sex but that is just about the first thing that goes down the toilet when there are problems and it shouldn't be. I don't think I know one guy who has cheated or left a partner who didn't already have problems in the bedroom department and nearly every guy would say things like "she doesn't want it nowadays" or similar.

I have, and I know many other men who have. Face it, depending on what study you believe, anywhere upwards of 75% of men have extra-marital sex sometime in their lives. (And the number is similar for women.)

Men are genetically bred to seek many partners. In caveman days, it made sense to try to procreate with as many women as possible in order to hit the genetic lottery and find that right combination of genes to have successful progeny. Women, on the other hand, with the length of pregnancy and the rigors of child-rearing, were unable to have as many children during the course of their lives, so the "quality" of the male provider of her child's genes was far more important than the number of sexual partners. But the genetic imperative to better a woman's chance of rearing a successful child by trying more combinations still also valid, only not as often. Hence, some sociologists feel the "seven-year itch" is a reflection on that, a woman's desire to seek another gene donor for her next child once her previous child has matured past the infant stage.

But back to the quote above. When I was first married, I was faithful until after the divorce papers were submitted. Since then, I have had g/f's with whom the sex was great, but my wandering eye has led me to stray. Sex does not hold that all-encompassing importance or significance that it had to me when I was married. Casual sex is not taboo with me, and it doesn't affect how I think about my current significant other. I have juggled sexual partenrs at times, but the best situation was when my g/f was like-minded and we could share our desire for new experiences in the swinging scene once or twice a month. (I really don't like to do anything in secret, and if it is OK for me to experience new things, it has to be OK with her to do the same.)

The point is, I will admit to straying even when the sex is great. And I know many, many men (and not a few women) who have also done the same.

I am not trying to justify my actions in any way. But facts are facts, and people stray from committed relationships for many reasons, not only because the sexual tap has been cut off at home.

[isabelle17]

I am sorry. You can control your urges and desires, and frankly...all the "Oh well back in the caveman days..." comments are just annoying. Yes, I am sure it was much more common back then, and I am sure there are some "biological" reasons for cheating. But in this day in age, there is something called "self-control." Yeah, it sucks not to get laid every day, but guys, sex is not the most important thing in the world (at least in my opinion.) Yeah, sex is great...but at the end of the day, the things I care about most are my friends and family and the strong FRIENDSHIPS that I have with them.

Besides, people who cheat more or have mor sexual partners are more likely to get stds and pass them along to their wife/husband or boyfriend/girlfriend. Cheating is irresponsible these days. Maybe if there wasnt the danger of stds, it would not be such a big deal, but it is now. We are not in the caveman days anymore so get over it.

[girlx]

i think that is a wholly female view of things isabelle. most men will smile and nod and sneak out the back door anyway. sex is purely a physical thing for them so they don't tend to see what the big deal is. unfair imbalance between the sexes i'd say. funny thing is, a lot of guys think it should be ok if they cheat, but if the woman goes out and does the same- look out!

[isabelle17]

i think that is a wholly female view of things isabelle. most men will smile and nod and sneak out the back door anyway. sex is purely a physical thing for them so they don't tend to see what the big deal is. unfair imbalance between the sexes i'd say. funny thing is, a lot of guys think it should be ok if they cheat, but if the woman goes out and does the same- look out!

I understand that it is the male point of view. I am simply stating that the more partners someone has, and the cheating they do, the more they are putting themselves and others at risk for stds. I am just saying that I think cheating isnt worth the consequences...in my "female" opinion. And I still say cheating is irresponsible, regardless if "men can't help it." Just my opinion though.

[girlx]

i agree with both (STD risks and simple irresponsibility) but try telling them that

[bonobo]

I am sorry. You can control your urges and desires, and frankly...all the "Oh well back in the caveman days..." comments are just annoying. Yes, I am sure it was much more common back then, and I am sure there are some "biological" reasons for cheating. But in this day in age, there is something called "self-control." Yeah, it sucks not to get laid every day, but guys, sex is not the most important thing in the world (at least in my opinion.) Yeah, sex is great...but at the end of the day, the things I care about most are my friends and family and the strong FRIENDSHIPS that I have with them.

Besides, people who cheat more or have mor sexual partners are more likely to get stds and pass them along to their wife/husband or boyfriend/girlfriend. Cheating is irresponsible these days. Maybe if there wasnt the danger of stds, it would not be such a big deal, but it is now. We are not in the caveman days anymore so get over it.

Sorry, I can't "get over" natural selection. We act out much of what we do, male or female, based on our evolution as human beings.

We are genetically inclined to procreate. Those of us who are not so inclined do not pass on our genes, and hence, the lack of desire to procreate. So we seek sex. Simple.

I also wrote that I am not trying to justify myself to anyone. I personally do like multiple sex partners, but with the knowledge and participation of my significant other. So what? Safe sex eliminates the risk of STD's. But if you look down on me for that, that is your choice.

"Cavemen" tended to kill each other for things such as control of hunting areas or even procreation rights. Does that make it right? Does that justify it in the modern world? Most would agree that it doesn't, but to ignore the tendancy for humans towards violence is myopic and foolhardy.

Our ancestors who were more sexually active were the ones who passed on their genes. Does that mean that all of us are hardwired into sexual promiscuity? Hardly. We all have choices, just as we have choices to eskew violence. But we, as a whole, have been bred to like sex, and to desire sex with more than one person. So it is hardly surprising that some people either cheat or "swing." And that is my point. I am not making judgements here, just pointing out that many people do stray, and not only because of a poor sexual life at home. (And women stray just as much as men.)

I do practice "self-control." I do not drink nor smoke. I do not steal nor purposely cause anyone harm (physical, mental, or material). I try to eat right, and I exercise. That is self-control. I just choose not to cut off sexual pleasure when there is no harm done. Your "self-control" and mine are different. And that is OK.

[suegha]

I do agree that we all make choices, however, using the 'hardwired' or 'our cavemen forebears' is absolute rubbish. I choose the life I lead and I choose not to cheat on my wife. I feel my life is better for it!

[bonobo]

I do agree that we all make choices, however, using the 'hardwired' or 'our cavemen forebears' is absolute rubbish. I choose the life I lead and I choose not to cheat on my wife. I feel my life is better for it!

I guess I cannot write clearly, because what I wrote is not being understood. I will try one more time, then leave it at that.

Going back to the origianl topic, yes, men do tend to think with their privates. (Women do to, in their own way.) We are genetically hardwired to do so, and to think otherwise is really pretty naive.

But we all make our own choices. We can choose to act on instincts or not.

We, as humans, are genetically bred to like fat. Be that animal fat, ice cream, or whatever. In the far past, this was a good thing, a survival thing. But even today, most of us like to eat fats. Yet I choose to not eat ice cream, despite my love of it, because I know, as a modern man, that ice cream can lead to heart disease, something to which my family is prone. I choose to go against thousands of years of evolution and not eat it.

Jimmy Carter was lampooned for admiting that he lusted for other women even if he was faithful to his wife. But he was just beng honest, as would most men, if they dared to admit it. Yes, 25% of married men do remain faithful, but I am convinced that most of those 25% have had thoughts otherwise cross their minds. And to me, that is more admirable. If a man (or woman) never had a desire to seek sex outside marriage, then the fact that they never did it means nothing. BUt if a person did have these thoughts but chose not to act on them, well, than that is real choice, and that should be important to those who think fidelity is important.

And if you still don't understand my point, so be it. It is not that important anyway.

[sbk]

Actually, I have to say, I like your point

I agree, there comes a time in every relationship when one looks at one's spouse and thinks that maybe they are missing something more. How a person deals with those thoughts is what seperates us from caveman days and "hardwiring". A mature person who is in control of their own behavior and takes responsibility for their actions will behave in a far different way than an immature person who puts their immediate desires ahead of everything else.

[isabelle17]

I agree that everyone makes their own choices. But sometimes their choices can have consequences for others as well.

Just an example (a non thailand one, though it probably could be used in Thailand too):

One reason that many women in Africa got AIDS/HIV was because their husbands cheated on them. Usually it was the men who cheated and not the women (by the way I saw this in a documentary, so I am assuming its at least somewhat true.)

So even if men are hardwired to have sex with multiple partners, I still don't see that as some "excuse." People can do what they want, but they should think before they act. It would be different if you got an std and then never had sex for the rest of your life with anyone, but the fact of the matter is that many people do not even know they have an std, and so they pass it on to the other people they have sex with. Its that simple.

There are many men out there who choose not to cheat. And then there are many men who do cheat (like I said, same can go for women.) But honestly, why take the risk of a one night stand (even if you do practice safe sex, that does NOT mean that you cannot get an std. hellloooo, did you have sex education at all??) Its just one night our of your life for goodness sake. There is a reason why humans have brains, education, and common sense. Be glad you learned how to avoid obtaining an std because sadly there are many people in this world who don't know how to prevent getting one. I have a very good friend who got AIDS/HIV because her husband cheated on her...so cheating can have consequences on others.

Anyway, sorry...that was longer then I expected....

[girlx]

One reason that many women in Africa got AIDS/HIV was because their husbands cheated on them.

I read recently that this is the case in Thailand too.

I have never cheated on a guy but most of them have eventually cheated on me, even when they loved me and our sex life was ok. I believe them when they say the other girl was not important to them, but the part I can't deal with is the lying about whether it happened or not (I usually find out via a letter or phone messages or the like). I know myself that after a couple years in a relationship, I get bored of the sex and start to think about someone else. And since sex seems like so much more of a priority for men, I know they are thinking the same thing, and are more likely to act on it. So I have an agreement with my boyfriends that if they are SAFE and HONEST it is ok for them to explore elsewhere. And if someone becomes more important to them than I am then we break up. It rarely happens like that though, they usually lie to me and I feel betrayed and that is the end of it. I think bonobo is ok- if he and his partner have made an agreement and they are open with each other about it, more power to them. They are taking into account the polygamous nature of human beings and dealing with it rationally and fairly.

[macb]

Well I would be the first to say I have been overruled by what would you call D... takes over brain cells so many definitions Passion, Lust, healthy sex drive:

The human anatomy both in women and men is a wonderful thing, but sex drives vary in each and every one of us some hi some low, it also depends on your circumstances at the time and the particular scenario you are in at that moment in time.

If you have a good partner then all this relates to that partner I think you would call it chemistry , if you are single well then the world is your oyster.(The up and downs in life)

I have learnt quick lessons that recently that it is dangerous or reckless to allow your anatomy to cloud your realistic thoughts because it can get you into situations you think are true but they are not.

Edited April 9, 2008 by macb

[isabelle17]

Yeah I wish that people could be more open and honest about those kinds of things...but I think the man or woman who is sleeping with someone other than their gf/bf or husband/wife, think that if they tell their partner that, their partner will leave them (which is probably true in many cases.) I think open relationships are pretty good because you can be honest with each other. I think with cheating, the lying and betrayal is what hurts the most.

[macb]

Personally I don't agree with Butterflying as they call it, some one always gets hurt emotionally, if you have the partner in your life that is your soul mate friend and lover then why is there the need to see other women or men which ever the case maybe:

If either partner needs extra marital relationships ie sex then surely it means your heart is not with your present partner.

Everyone one is made up different in terms of emotions and feeling etc,, yes there are relationships that are open and more than open without going into detail but thats not my kettle of fish.

One lady one man if you are together thats how I like it.

[donna]

here here macb.

[donna]

Firstly....why would you want to fake orgasms ? I'd rather have the real thing than a fake any day.

its a common thing for a woman to fake an orgasm in order to put an end to what is possibly boring sex. if the man isnt 'on target', if the woman is simply too tired, or if she just cant (for whatever reason) she may fake an orgasm in order to make the man feel better and to get it over with.

right or wrong, thats pretty much the truth of it. sorry blokes.

(i am speaking for many women here, and am not saying whether its wrong or right - just pointing out a fact)

Pretty bullshit here, even i'f your tired you can easy get orgasm, it's in you brain.. To much thinking ruines the orgasm

sorry datsun240z, i have to disagree with you here. but you are a man and im a woman, so we are bound to never agree on this particular topic. we will have to agree to disagree i guess.

[bonobo]

I think open relationships are pretty good because you can be honest with each other. I think with cheating, the lying and betrayal is what hurts the most.

I agree with that 100%. I personally cannot stomach lies. So I don't cheat. I have in the past, I will admit, but not for quite some time. I think a better solution is to find someone of like mind and be honest in your activities.

However, for all those who never stray, great. I can understand the feeling of empowerment and satisfaction that can give someone.

On the issue of HIV being spread by men cheating on their wives in Africa, studies in central Africa, where both men and women have the highest number of sexual partners than anywhere else in the world, cheating is done by both men and women. I have personally stood at a bus stop in Nigeria and watch two people meet, I think for the first time, and within 10 minutes they went off into the bush for a quickie, then came back in time to catch the bus. Both men and women seek extra-marital sex, not just the men. THe main culprit in the spread of HIV (while of course the large number of sexual partners is the core reason) is the disinclination to use condoms (except in Uganda) is the vector. I would imagine that husbands cheating is more the norm in Arab Africa, and I don't know about South Africa, but in cetnral Africa, cheating is an activity done by both sexes.

[Datsun240Z]

Firstly....why would you want to fake orgasms ? I'd rather have the real thing than a fake any day.

its a common thing for a woman to fake an orgasm in order to put an end to what is possibly boring sex. if the man isnt 'on target', if the woman is simply too tired, or if she just cant (for whatever reason) she may fake an orgasm in order to make the man feel better and to get it over with.

right or wrong, thats pretty much the truth of it. sorry blokes.

(i am speaking for many women here, and am not saying whether its wrong or right - just pointing out a fact)

Pretty bullshit here, even i'f your tired you can easy get orgasm, it's in you brain.. To much thinking ruines the orgasm

sorry datsun240z, i have to disagree with you here. but you are a man and im a woman, so we are bound to never agree on this particular topic. we will have to agree to disagree i guess.

Anyway we will never now haha

[ade100]

I do agree that we all make choices, however, using the 'hardwired' or 'our cavemen forebears' is absolute rubbish. I choose the life I lead and I choose not to cheat on my wife. I feel my life is better for it!

He's right. I also choose not too cheat. And believe me as an attractive, well paid, professional, white guy living in SE Asia, there are possibilities.

This hard wired cave man argument is great but consider this: Humans are the only species on the plant whose offspring are pretty much helpless for many years. We have been hardwired to form ourselevs into some sort of stable units to support and educate our young. Otherwise they would never survive. So there has to be more than the sex imperative. There has to be some sense of love, loyalty, friendship,or whatever it take to bind us together into some sort of stable structure to support our young.

[bonobo]

This hard wired cave man argument is great but consider this: Humans are the only species on the plant whose offspring are pretty much helpless for many years. We have been hardwired to form ourselevs into some sort of stable units to support and educate our young. Otherwise they would never survive. So there has to be more than the sex imperative. There has to be some sense of love, loyalty, friendship,or whatever it take to bind us together into some sort of stable structure to support our young.

Actually, elephants come to mind as being pretty helpless for a number of years. All of the marsupials are pretty helpless for a good portion of their average lifespan, too. Chimps and gorillas cannot surivive on their own until about 6 or 7 years old, and even bears need two years.

But your point is well-taken about something hard-wiring us together to raise our young. But the two are not mutually exclusive. Most cultures have acknowledged what westerners call the "seven-year-itch." Using the "caveman" example, after a child is 6 or 7, he or she can accompany the mother on foraging efforts and can move around, thus eliminatng the vital need for a specific male to hang around and provide security and succor. So both males and females are now "free" to seek other sex partners to try that genetic lottery again.

All of this is theory, of course. But the "seven-year-itch" is an observed fact of almost, if not all, cultures and this theory sure tends to explain it.