Samak Sundaravej was elected

[John K]

Personal Analysis:

Taking into consideration all the major events that have happened after the TRT was dissolved in May 2007, Thaksin has spent countless amounts of money on propping up his image with the purchase and dressing up of a Football team. He has also spent huge amounts of money trying to turn not one but two votes being the constitution vote in August 2007, and the general election in December 2007. Add to that cash outflow tally the Shin tax money and we are looking at more money spent that over 90% of the world population makes in their entire lives.

Taking into consideration Thaksin’s inability to handle any sort of criticism as apparent by countless lawsuits he has filed over the years and the countless attacks on him from nearly everyone with eyes and a sense of decency, you can start to see the immense pressure Thaksin is under although much of it is self induced for self serving reasons.

The next thing that must be looked at it the Thaksin team that consists of gluttonous venoms critters that bite, sting or otherwise do unsavory things to others. Thaksin needed them not to do what is their nature to claim the prize, however to ask a hungry snake not to bite when food is in front of it is proving to be too tall of an order to expect.

Underneath all of this is a immense growing desire for payback, revenge or whatever word you prefer. Comments of let bygones be bygones are the furthest things from the truth after someone sent a truck roaring through Thaksin’s house. Even the most mild tempered person would have a difficult time not losing it in that situation if not seen as an accident. This was no accident.

If left unchecked, Thaksin will eventually nullify all the rulings against him, get his Shin tax money returned and neutralize all opposition turning the climate in Thailand to that of Burm’s.

[sriracha john]

PM, Dems clash over Oct 6

Samak denies role in shutting newspapers

PM Samak locked horns with the Democrat Party yesterday over his role in shutting down newspapers when he was Interior Minister in the wake of the 1976 student uprising at Thammasat University. Samak denied any links to the massacre of student protesters and denied he had a role in silencing the media. Instead, he said, he was the one who pushed for the newspapers to re-open. During the debate on the government's policies in parliament yesterday, Democrat Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva called on the government to respect the media's role in monitoring the government. Abhisit spoke of the time when Samak was Interior Minister in the wake of the massacre. "During that period a lot of newspapers were ordered closed," Abhisit said. The present government must make sure nothing similar would happen again. Abhisit said ways of interfering with the media at that time, such as closing newspapers, were different. Today, meddling with the media was more subtle, such as applying pressure on media organisations and making them fear their business would suffer if they continue to heap criticism on those in power. Abhisit also wondered why the promise of freedom to information on government organisations and other public media was omitted from the government's policy.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/19Feb2008_news02.php

Edited February 19, 2008 by sriracha john

[Plus]

By the way....does anyone know what Toxin was doing in 1976?

Probably in the police, looking for opportunities to do business.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Plus

[John K]

By the way....does anyone know what Toxin was doing in 1976?

Probably in the police, looking for opportunities to do business.

Thaksin attended the 10th class of the Armed Forces Academies Preparatory School.[23] He then attended the Thai Police Cadet Academy and upon graduation, he joined the Royal Thai Police Department in 1973. He later went on to obtain a master's degree in criminal justice from Eastern Kentucky University in the United States, in 1975. In 1978 he received a doctorate in criminal justice at Sam Houston State University in Texas with a dissertation on "An Analysis of the Relationship Between the Criminal Justice Educational Process and the Attitude of the Student Toward the Rule of Law."[24] Returning to Thailand, he reached the position of Deputy Superintendent of the Policy and Planning Sub-division, General Staff Division, Metropolitan Police Bureau. He married Potjaman Damapong, the daughter of a police general, in 1980.[25] Thaksin quit the police force in 1987, having ascended to the rank of a Lieutenant-Colonel.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra

[Stephen Cleary]

A local news program about Samak, his denial and original horrendous footage of the 1976 massacre has just been posted on YouTube.

By the way, in the video, that is the bodies of five students they are burning on Sanam Luang.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Stephen Cleary

[trader1]

If left unchecked, Thaksin will eventually nullify all the rulings against him, get his Shin tax money returned and neutralize all opposition turning the climate in Thailand to that of Burm's.

Taksin lost power when the military took cotrol. Burma is ruled by the military: I don't follow your comparison.

[Old Man River]

The real power in the Democrat Pary emerges.....elect a Democrat as PM and Chuan is who will pull the strings.

Chownah

You are confusing the Democrats with other political parties in Thailand which are controlled by one or two individuals. The Democrats have a more western approach with a group of people comprising their leadership. Of this group, Chuan is the most experienced, having been PM twice. As such, he holds the position in the party as Chairman of the Advisory Board.

Elect Abhisit and you will get Abhisit who can call on a group of experienced people for guidance. Elect Samak and you get Samak and all that he is and all that he isn't.

[chownah]

The real power in the Democrat Pary emerges.....elect a Democrat as PM and Chuan is who will pull the strings.

Chownah

You are confusing the Democrats with other political parties in Thailand which are controlled by one or two individuals. The Democrats have a more western approach with a group of people comprising their leadership. Of this group, Chuan is the most experienced, having been PM twice. As such, he holds the position in the party as Chairman of the Advisory Board.

Elect Abhisit and you will get Abhisit who can call on a group of experienced people for guidance. Elect Samak and you get Samak and all that he is and all that he isn't.

Seems like even Samak was outfront that if you elected him you would get Toxin at least to a degree and the appointments to cabinet and administrative posts would seem to bear this out.....I don't think any of us knows for sure just how their arrangement works. I'm not saying you are wrong about Chuan and Abhisit...I'm wondering on what basis you make your assertion. It seems like it would be very difficult for any of us to really know how the relationship between the two works. My comment was based on what some Thai people have said and I do not consider it to be a definitive statement....I probably should have indicated this in my post....sorry for that....anyway what is the basis for your belief on this?

Chownah

[Smithson]

Elect Abhisit and you will get Abhisit who can call on a group of experienced people for guidance.

This is what we were told about Apirak, the 'new breed' Bangkok governor. What has he achieved? Look at the pollution produced by Bangkok buses. A quick trip to the depot for emissions tests could solve the problem, but a simple task like this he isn't capable of.

Elect Abhisit and he will call on a group of experienced ppl with conflicted of interests and hidden agendas.

[Plus]

Yeah, you can go to a bus depot and check on the pollution. Takes no genius. What are you going to do about it? Ground them and leave millions of people stranded?

They been converting those buses to run on NGV, btw, and they increased the fleet of Euro2 compliant buses, too.

[Smithson]

Yeah, you can go to a bus depot and check on the pollution. Takes no genius. What are you going to do about it? Ground them and leave millions of people stranded?

Well they check the buses in the street, it causes traffic jams but makes a good show. Surely checking at the depots makes more sense, they don't have to ground a whole fleet but can see that the operators make the necessary repairs.

They been converting those buses to run on NGV, btw, and they increased the fleet of Euro2 compliant buses, too.

This may be so, but when I ride down the street I see clouds of black smoke pumping from buses. With so many cars running on gas and so few 2 strokes around these days, the pollution situation could be improved greatly if they really tackled the buses which seem to be worse than ever.

Chamlong improved the garbage on the streets and Bhichit planted trees. Now the place is returning to a mess and we've got pot plants hanging on trellis along Sukumvit, which started dying a couple of days after being planted. What has Apirak given us? Taxi call stations on streets already full of taxis? Any other great ideas coming up from the brilliant young minds?

Besides a posh accent and pretty face, what can we expect from Abhisit?

[Old Man River]

The real power in the Democrat Pary emerges.....elect a Democrat as PM and Chuan is who will pull the strings.

Chownah

You are confusing the Democrats with other political parties in Thailand which are controlled by one or two individuals. The Democrats have a more western approach with a group of people comprising their leadership. Of this group, Chuan is the most experienced, having been PM twice. As such, he holds the position in the party as Chairman of the Advisory Board.

Elect Abhisit and you will get Abhisit who can call on a group of experienced people for guidance. Elect Samak and you get Samak and all that he is and all that he isn't.

Seems like even Samak was outfront that if you elected him you would get Toxin at least to a degree and the appointments to cabinet and administrative posts would seem to bear this out.....I don't think any of us knows for sure just how their arrangement works. I'm not saying you are wrong about Chuan and Abhisit...I'm wondering on what basis you make your assertion. It seems like it would be very difficult for any of us to really know how the relationship between the two works. My comment was based on what some Thai people have said and I do not consider it to be a definitive statement....I probably should have indicated this in my post....sorry for that....anyway what is the basis for your belief on this?

Chownah

No problem. I misunderstood.

If you want links, I can't help. I base my comments on many years of conversations with people in the party (junior and senior alike). There is no other political party like the Democrats in Thailand. They have not grown by combining with other parties and then being halved as factions leave and then combining again with other parties etc. This allows them consistency in their policies and outlook.

About 5 years ago, after losing to the TRT, they changed tactics and opted to move some of their younger talent up the ranks quicker than in the past. From this group Abhisit and Korn emerged. I can tell you that some of the older MP's at the time were very unhappy with this direction and if this was all a charade they would have known. Vote Abhisit and you will get Abhisit, but he will always be able to call on Chuan and other seniors when needed. For example, when the party was facing dissolution recently, it was Chuan as Chief Advisor who took control (he also an attorney).

[Abrak]

No problem. I misunderstood.

If you want links, I can't help. I base my comments on many years of conversations with people in the party (junior and senior alike). There is no other political party like the Democrats in Thailand. They have not grown by combining with other parties and then being halved as factions leave and then combining again with other parties etc. This allows them consistency in their policies and outlook.

About 5 years ago, after losing to the TRT, they changed tactics and opted to move some of their younger talent up the ranks quicker than in the past. From this group Abhisit and Korn emerged. I can tell you that some of the older MP's at the time were very unhappy with this direction and if this was all a charade they would have known. Vote Abhisit and you will get Abhisit, but he will always be able to call on Chuan and other seniors when needed. For example, when the party was facing dissolution recently, it was Chuan as Chief Advisor who took control (he also an attorney).

Fair enough but the Democrats have an image problem.

What do they represent?

First they represent the south. Southerners vote for them because they believe they will work in their best interests.

Secondly they represent the elite. Abhisit - Eton and Oxford - Korn - head boy of Winchester and Oxford - you dont get much more elite than that.

But how can these guys seriously represent the voting interests of the majority of a second world country?

[ando]

uh oh... he's losing it...

SAMAK ON 1976 CRACKDOWN

'Damned if I was involved'

New PM erupts in Parliament after opposition questions him about involvement in October 6 massacre

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej swore in Parliament yesterday that if he was involved in the 1976 fatal crackdown on protesters at Thammasat University, he would be damned.

A war of words was sparked between Samak and the opposition during the government's declaration in the House of its policy agenda.

Samak blew his top after opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva demanded that Samak not allow a repeat of what happened to the media after the October 6, 1976 incident, when Samak assumed the Interior Minister's post and a number of newspapers were shut down.

"We are obviously witnessing media intimidation in the removal of Chirmsak Pinthong's radio programme for criticising Samak about his [CNN] interview over the incident," Abhisit said.

Democrat Party Chief Adviser Chuan Leekpai yesterday attacked Samak for lacking gratitude by jumping ship from the Democrats when the party was at its lowest ebb.

Chuan said the PM and several Cabinet members began their political careers with the Democrat Party. "I admire people who appreciate the party and its merits and I condemn people who do not have any gratitude and talk badly about the party."

Chuan said media faced subtle interference via business mechanisms. "The media is intimidated in that, if they present news which shows opposition to the government, their business will not survive," he said.

Samak complained that his political opponents always used his role in the October 1976 incident to discredit him in every election campaign he has fought. He said his opponents always accused him of being a murderer with blood-stained hands.

"During the gubernatorial election race, I was verbally bullied that I was a murderer. But I won over a million votes and my opponent got only 500,000 votes. Has there been anyone in Thailand winning over one million votes [in the poll for Bangkok governor]? There is only Samak," he said.

He said he told CNN that during the clamp-down on students he was at Sanam Luang and he saw one person hit and burnt by a rubber bullet.

"Every foreigner is interested in asking this question. A female reporter from Al Jazeera, who was beautiful and not even 30, asked me that question, so I asked her back 'how old are you?' and 'who told you to ask me?' " he said.

* My links to the 2-part Al Jazeera interview videos are here *

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1815497

Samak gave an interview to CNN earlier this month in which he claimed only one person died in the notorious massacre, in which more than 40 were allegedly killed. The PM said he was not involved in the brutal crackdown on the students.

October 6 activists have cried foul over Samak's statement, accusing him of distorting the facts. They say the PM played a crucial role by inciting hatred between leftists and conservatives. Samak was the host of an Army radio show and accused the students of being communists who aimed to destroy the country's revered institutions.

- The Nation

OMG the opposition is back living in 1976 instead of focusing their energy on benefiting the country now. They have had 32 years to air their grievances but they choose to use up valuable parliamentary time to do it now for purely political purposes in order to benefit their own party rather than the nation.

Unfortunately, negative campaigning is a symptom of politics the world over, but it really doesn't do much to advance the countries interests. In fact, it just drives the wedge of division even deeper. Not something the country needs right now. I think its a shame on Mr Abasit that he has stooped to this selfish tactic right now when intelligent debate on the countries future is urgently needed.

I suppose Samak would have anticipated this attack and I guess that's why he is passing it off so lightly. Emotive as the issue is, its VERY OLD. And really not likely to sway many voters other than those who already feel very strongly about it. Basically, wasted political energy that could be better expended to benefit the country rather than the Democratic Party. But still, I suppose the Democrats strategy is to get it on record and keep the issue alive as part of a longer term political strategy. One wonders what it will be next as this issue will surely run out of wind very shortly. Perhaps the Fire truck scandal? Again, it might make the Democrats feel all warm and fuzzy, but in the end they will only be preaching to the converted while Samak gets on with the business of running the country.

No wonder the Democrats are still in opposition. Perhaps they will get the big picture one day and understand that in a democracy they need to appeal to the greatest number of voters and maybe start doing something to benefit the country instead of running a negative campaign months after the election is over.

[DP25]

OMG the opposition is back living in 1976 instead of focusing their energy on benefiting the country now. They have had 32 years to air their grievances but they choose to use up valuable parliamentary time to do it now for purely political purposes in order to benefit their own party rather than the nation.

Unfortunately, negative campaigning is a symptom of politics the world over, but it really doesn't do much to advance the countries interests. In fact, it just drives the wedge of division even deeper. Not something the country needs right now. I think its a shame on Mr Abasit that he has stooped to this selfish tactic right now when intelligent debate on the countries future is urgently needed.

I suppose Samak would have anticipated this attack and I guess that's why he is passing it off so lightly. Emotive as the issue is, its VERY OLD. And really not likely to sway many voters other than those who already feel very strongly about it. Basically, wasted political energy that could be better expended to benefit the country rather than the Democratic Party. But still, I suppose the Democrats strategy is to get it on record and keep the issue alive as part of a longer term political strategy. One wonders what it will be next as this issue will surely run out of wind very shortly. Perhaps the Fire truck scandal? Again, it might make the Democrats feel all warm and fuzzy, but in the end they will only be preaching to the converted while Samak gets on with the business of running the country.

No wonder the Democrats are still in opposition. Perhaps they will get the big picture one day and understand that in a democracy they need to appeal to the greatest number of voters and maybe start doing something to benefit the country instead of running a negative campaign months after the election is over.

I really don't know what to say to this rant. I imagine you must be from China or some other totalitarian armpit of a country, Westerners learned long ago that it is wrong to airbrush history to avoid unpleasant events. Samak's denial of Hok Tula puts him squarely in the camp with holocaust deniers and he should be condemned by the entire world. And as for it not likely to sway many voters, that is precisely because most voters do not know that this event even happened, and as long as leaders continue to publicly deny historical facts they never will be given the opportunity to learn.

[John K]

If left unchecked, Thaksin will eventually nullify all the rulings against him, get his Shin tax money returned and neutralize all opposition turning the climate in Thailand to that of Burm's.

Taksin lost power when the military took cotrol. Burma is ruled by the military: I don't follow your comparison.

It is fairly easy Thaksin is running Samak, and Samak is running Thailand. It is a bit like telling your driver where to go as you sit in the backseat. Check the to do list for the PPP, you will find it listed there near the top long before doing anything for the people that elected them.

[Old Man River]

No problem. I misunderstood.

If you want links, I can't help. I base my comments on many years of conversations with people in the party (junior and senior alike). There is no other political party like the Democrats in Thailand. They have not grown by combining with other parties and then being halved as factions leave and then combining again with other parties etc. This allows them consistency in their policies and outlook.

About 5 years ago, after losing to the TRT, they changed tactics and opted to move some of their younger talent up the ranks quicker than in the past. From this group Abhisit and Korn emerged. I can tell you that some of the older MP's at the time were very unhappy with this direction and if this was all a charade they would have known. Vote Abhisit and you will get Abhisit, but he will always be able to call on Chuan and other seniors when needed. For example, when the party was facing dissolution recently, it was Chuan as Chief Advisor who took control (he also an attorney).

Fair enough but the Democrats have an image problem.

What do they represent?

First they represent the south. Southerners vote for them because they believe they will work in their best interests.

Secondly they represent the elite. Abhisit - Eton and Oxford - Korn - head boy of Winchester and Oxford - you dont get much more elite than that.

But how can these guys seriously represent the voting interests of the majority of a second world country?

Good question. They can buy votes like the competition, but then that is probably too expensive. They can always wait for the country to crash and burn like in 1997 and then be brought in to bring back stability. Nobody really wants that to happen, but if it does, they are the safety net.

[younghusband]

No problem. I misunderstood.

If you want links, I can't help. I base my comments on many years of conversations with people in the party (junior and senior alike). There is no other political party like the Democrats in Thailand. They have not grown by combining with other parties and then being halved as factions leave and then combining again with other parties etc. This allows them consistency in their policies and outlook.

About 5 years ago, after losing to the TRT, they changed tactics and opted to move some of their younger talent up the ranks quicker than in the past. From this group Abhisit and Korn emerged. I can tell you that some of the older MP's at the time were very unhappy with this direction and if this was all a charade they would have known. Vote Abhisit and you will get Abhisit, but he will always be able to call on Chuan and other seniors when needed. For example, when the party was facing dissolution recently, it was Chuan as Chief Advisor who took control (he also an attorney).

Fair enough but the Democrats have an image problem.

What do they represent?

First they represent the south. Southerners vote for them because they believe they will work in their best interests.

Secondly they represent the elite. Abhisit - Eton and Oxford - Korn - head boy of Winchester and Oxford - you dont get much more elite than that.

But how can these guys seriously represent the voting interests of the majority of a second world country?

Easily as Nehru (Harrow and Cambridge) showed sixty years ago.In any case these guys had an elite education certainly, thank God, but do not slavishly serve the interests of the Thai establishment.There's just a chance that this pair might transform the political landscape.

[aaaaaa]

PM, Dems clash over Oct 6

Samak denies role in shutting newspapers

...

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/19Feb2008_news02.php

yeah, and he also rebuked Abhisit, practically has tried to switch the subject from main point to the attack on person (Argumentum ad hominem), as he often does: he challenged him "how old are you that time? 11 y.o. and living in UK - and you're trying to teach me about those events? "

I've read this in Nation

also he swore that he wasn't involved: "if I was, then let me be ruined, and if I wasn't - let me be successful in my PM work"

well, those of us who believes in divine forces - let's wait and see what will be the result of such oath

[aaaaaa]

Samak's denial of Hok Tula puts him squarely in the camp with holocaust deniers and he should be condemned by the entire world. ...

yes, that's very true from the Western point of view. however from Thai point of view - it is quite complicated. because Samak is not the only one who was (or wasn't) involved there - but many other still influential people. and he was merely clumsily and arrogantly trying to brush away this subject - not only because of himself, but because of all those others. because it would stir up the whole mess - if the real investigations would be conducted and those actually involved and guilty called to justice.

and already some serious people as academicians are trying to broaden the whole matter than simply Samak's lie and urge people to direct criticism not only towards him but to all others invloved:

'reason for violence' not discussed

The October 6, 1976 massacre should not be used as a political tool against Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej alone because many more were involved in the violence that left 46 dead, a symposium at Thammasat University (TU) concluded.

and why it shouldn't be so? because nowadays many people from both sides of those events has changed their views

Kanokrat, who is writing a dissertation on how former leftist students changed their ideological standards, said many had become fodder for the military junta who staged the coup in September 2006, while Samak appeared more of a reformed man in regards to democracy.

"The former right-winger has adapted well and is now elected to office. It's not true that Samak is the same man," she said.

"The former leftists or so-called progressive people have changed and are working with the right wing establishment.

"What the media, and those who heard Samak's remarks, said to criticise Samak didn't happen simply in a vacuum of discontent against what Samak said. It is occurring in the midst of anti-Thaksin feeling and support and condoning of the September 2006 coup."

Kanokrat said discussion of October 6 had been simplified to a struggle between innocent students and the conservative right-wing state.

"It never seems to go beyond who did what and when and the number of deaths and the form of the violence. The real question, which is what led to the violence, is not being discussed.

"If revisiting history is only to be part of the fodder for political struggle, society will unlikely learn from the October massacre."

Sirote criticised those attacking Samak without trying to see the larger picture of how many groups and institutions were behind the atrocity.

... the importance was not about whether one or more people were killed but whether the public at large understood the historical incident.

A Thammasat historian, Charnvit Kasetsiri, a deputy rector of the university in October 1976, said what the people were witnessing was a trivialisation of history by Samak. "Our society lacks an historical consciousness."

of course - some may argue that for that reason it would've been better if he said something like "yes, it happened, and I was there and I am deeply truly sorry about that. yes, more than 1 person died". but then - where is the guarantee that reporters would simply end this subject and continue to other question? most likely his such confession and possible apology would encourage the reporters to ask more details, to dig deeper and twitch his nose (I bet they love doing it ! ) even more. that is why he simply bluntly denied the whole thing. and now rips the fruits of that stupidity.

and now it looks like the actual stir up has already started, because those "October people" are trying to go further then simple condemnation of his lie but demand investigation and also to go "beyond Samak" - to name all others who were involved and most likely demand their punishment.

OCT 1976 MASSACRE

Adisorn calls for apology

(also: Samake urged to apologise the public)

February 20, 2008

Interior Minister Chalerm said the people who hosted the Army radio station that were accused of inciting hatred were Akom Mokaranond, Colonel Uthan Sanitwong, Uthit Naksawat and "Tamayanti" (the pen name of writer Khunying Wimol Siripaiboon).

He said Samak was not yet interior minister and was not involved in inciting the massacre. However he admitted that Samak was part of the extreme right wing movement.

Chalerm said the incident was triggered by a drunken policeman whose gun went off accidentally. He said he knew this because he was standing close to the policeman, who later died.

"The situation then developed into fighting. People who accuse Samak misunderstand the situation,'' he said.

woops ! here we go again about drunk policeman whose gun's gone off ACCIDENTALLY - and as usually more than once

seems like it is a long time tradition among Thai police - getting drunk and accidentally fire their guns !

and interestingly, he actually names other people - that's big surprise ! perhaps they are presently from opposition camp? otherwise why would he dare to mention them?

and also Chalerm said that he himself was there, standing next to that police guy....

well, perhaps he'll elaborate what exactly he's been doing there - cheering up, or also shooting, or observing ?

and definitely those whom he named will respond very soon, and then Abhisit's Vs Samak stand off in Parliament on this matter would seem like and innocent kids' play in comparison !

[John K]

I wonder if Alzheimers is setting in with Samaksin.

[sriracha john]

The Samak Foible continues to build...

OCTOBER 1976 MASSACRE

Adisorn calls for apology

Ex-TRT official warns Samak his distortion of history is turning friends into foes

Adisorn Piangket (TRT Banned #55), one of the October 6 student activists who fled into the jungle after the incident, yesterday warned Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej he was turning friends into foes for his distortion of history.

Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, meanwhile, defended the premier against accusations he incited hatred via the Army's radio station in October 1976.

Adisorn, who is also one of the 111 former executives of the disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party, said Samak had better apologize to the public for his statement that only one person died in the incident.

"We have pictures of dead people as evidence that many people were killed without justice," he said.

Adisorn said he lost his younger brother in the jungle and his parents were hunted down and had to flee for their lives. "The October 6 incident is not a topic to joke about. It is a tragedy that many young students were killed. We must help bring the truth about what really happened,'' he said.

He supported calls for a committee to set the record straight over the October 14, 1973 and October 6, 1976 incidents.

"We need a neutral committee such as the media or an international body as members," he said.

Interior Minister Chalerm said the people who hosted the Army radio station that were accused of inciting hatred were Akom Mokaranond, Colonel Uthan Sanitwong, Uthit Naksawat and "Tamayanti" (the pen name of writer Khunying Wimol Siripaiboon).

He said Samak was not yet Interior Minister and was not involved in inciting the massacre. However, he admitted that Samak was part of the extreme right wing movement. *not exactly a ringing endorsement*

Chalerm said the incident was triggered by a drunken policeman whose gun went off accidentally. He said he knew this because he was standing close to the policeman, who later died.

"The situation then developed into fighting. People who accuse Samak misunderstand the situation,'' he said.

- The Nation

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

After falling out with Samak recently on other issues, it is noteworthy that Interior Minister Chalerm, in defending Samak on this issue, does need Samak's approval for Chalerm's son to work in the Samak Cabinet.

Edited February 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[ando]

Ho Hum. 32 years old history and now all of a sudden its front page news.

Well today it is anyway. Tomorrow it will be once again forgotten.

Just some cheap political point scoring by the Democrats when they ought to be focusing on the countries future. Shows their priorioties I guess.

While the academics may enjoy the debate, the average voter in Thailand is more interested in the rising cost of living and the general economy than something that happened over 3 decades ago. Abhasit is preaching to the converted here while Samak gets on with the job at hand. So much for the opposition.

[sriracha john]

Just some cheap political point scoring by the Democrats

and PPP-coalition partner Matchima Thipataya Party and PPP-controlling Thai Rak Thai Party, as well as other politicians, academics, business leaders.... and a whole host of other assorted groups that were affected.

Edited February 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[phupaman]

Hi.

It looks like Ando is in denial.

[sriracha john]

To the previous post regarding the political parties opposing Samak on this issue, we can add his own People Power Party, who evidently are also, "just trying to score some cheap political point"....

Adisorn warns PM to back off

Dwelling on events of Oct 6 could split PPP

Former TRT executive Adisorn Piangket yesterday warned PM Samak that his allies could easily turn on him if he continues to dwell on the controversy surrounding the 1976 massacre of student protesters at Thammasat University. The warning from Adisorn showed the fragile relations between Samak and loyalists of ousted PM Thaksin. Some members of the PPP, which is made up largely of members of the dissolved TRT, are former student activists who once held a grudge against Samak over the incident. However, Samak and those PPP members later agreed to bury the hatchet and work together to fight the coup makers. Adisorn was a student activist at the time of the uprising and is one of the 111 former TRT executives banned from politics after their party was dissolved for poll fraud.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/20Feb2008_news01.php

[steveromagnino]

Elect Abhisit and you will get Abhisit who can call on a group of experienced people for guidance.

This is what we were told about Apirak, the 'new breed' Bangkok governor. What has he achieved? Look at the pollution produced by Bangkok buses. A quick trip to the depot for emissions tests could solve the problem, but a simple task like this he isn't capable of.

Elect Abhisit and he will call on a group of experienced ppl with conflicted of interests and hidden agendas.

- has gained control of the skytrain rather than selling it at a bargain price to TRT cronies, and has funded the extensions despite massive protest/blocks by TRT beyond the orginal routes

- about to launch the rapid bus loop to Rama 3 (almost finished) - an additional line of mass transit

- improved NGV buses - this is not an easy one to do when the bus service was a total mess and not directly the responsibility of the BMA anyhow

- improved flood control

- some landscaping

- skywalks and walkways such as the CentralWorld skywalk which was completed and supported by BMA under Apirak

- CCTV in major locations to control bombers (although of course we are aware that these are alledgedly actually police/army loyal to TRT that set off the bombs in CentralWorld area in late 2006 anyhow)

- introducing (for the first time) some actual sound basic budgeting and strategic planning to how the BMA runs rather than endless stop gap measures - we of course need him to stay a bit longer to get more done rather than just a plan

- clear building guidelines and regulations to control city development - far more stringent and green friendly than previously

- introduction of more transparent guidelines for bidding and selecting contractors - still a fair bit of trough feeding but less than before by miles

Compare that to the current PM and former governor:

- corrupt acquisition of some fire trucks

- allowing polystyrene kratongs

- running a cooking show

[aaaaaa]

Just some cheap political point scoring by the Democrats

and PPP-coalition partner Matchima Thipataya Party and PPP-controlling Thai Rak Thai Party, as well as other politicians, academics, business leaders.... and a whole host of other assorted groups that were affected.

now it looks like this issue will be given more attention - on the government level :

House may debate Oct 6 event after policy debate: Yongyuth

Parliament President Yongyuth Tiyapairaj said the House of Representatives may decide whether to hold a debate on the October 6 1976 student massacre after the debate on the government's policies.

"This is an important issue. Whether it will be discussed in the House or not, we have to wait until the policy debate is over first," Yongyuth said.

seems like it might come out that despite local and international media's frenzy on Samak's lie - he might come out as a winner and sort of "fighter for national reconciliation", who tried to preserve others' face by taking the whole fire upon himself ! because definitely among those involved and guilty in that massacre surely there are many who are on both sides of present political battle. it may be that Samak has actually made a well calculated step by that interview reply !

[aaaaaa]

here is the Opinion by Tulsathit Taptim, one of Nation's editors who's been often ridiculed elsewhere in Kokosphere (= Bangkok blogosphere) :

The truth lies buried in our own perspectives

February 20, 2008

Whether, or to how great an extent, Samak Sundaravej was involved in the October 6, 1976 infamy

should be the least of our concerns, and so should whether he's being honest or telling every lie under the sun.

Character scrutiny exists in Thailand for political purposes only...

The real question is whether our society really cares. If the academics or former activists currently making noises about "distorted" October 6 history are truly serious, why didn't they come out beforehand? The logic is simple, isn't it? If Samak's role in, or attitude toward, October 6 was acceptable to them at the time he was poised to be prime minister, it shouldn't bother them now.

Ultimately, however, caring about October 6 doesn't mean saying "No to Samak" based on the history. October 6 is always "there", like Everest. The challenge, though, is not to explore it or find the ones responsible and pillory them. What we should do is draw positive principles from those dark days and cherish them and live by them. Among the big lessons are the importance of a free media, the danger of giving any particular social force a stereotype, and the peril of politics of hatred.

seems like very nice typical right-wing logic ! pro- national reconciliation style.

"no need to talk about past - better to love each other and do good for the country"

this guy seems like quite a demagogue !

October 6 doesn't prohibit having a prime minister who condoned it, because if all lessons have been learned, he will be well taken care of. What October 6 is against is the collective ignorance of true democratic values, or the politics of vengeance in the name of democracy. And there is no worse injustice to October 6 than misusing its name to cause more hatred or prejudice.

October 6 doesn't demand digging into history and finding the culprits. It does allow a character scrutiny, especially of someone important like Samak, but it also calls for such an act to be carried out for moral reasons. October 6 seeks to scrutinise each and every one of us and keep us on our toes. It wants us to make sure that if Samak is to be taken to task for his role in, and ideas about, the Thammasat massacre, the move has to come from a collective social conscience.

I wonder - which side he is on, this Tulsathit ? Samak's ? or just of elite in general ?

because surely a lot of people DO want culprits to be brought to justice.

[Old Man River]

Elect Abhisit and you will get Abhisit who can call on a group of experienced people for guidance.

This is what we were told about Apirak, the 'new breed' Bangkok governor. What has he achieved? Look at the pollution produced by Bangkok buses. A quick trip to the depot for emissions tests could solve the problem, but a simple task like this he isn't capable of.

Elect Abhisit and he will call on a group of experienced ppl with conflicted of interests and hidden agendas.

- has gained control of the skytrain rather than selling it at a bargain price to TRT cronies, and has funded the extensions despite massive protest/blocks by TRT beyond the orginal routes

- about to launch the rapid bus loop to Rama 3 (almost finished) - an additional line of mass transit

- improved NGV buses - this is not an easy one to do when the bus service was a total mess and not directly the responsibility of the BMA anyhow

- improved flood control

- some landscaping

- skywalks and walkways such as the CentralWorld skywalk which was completed and supported by BMA under Apirak

- CCTV in major locations to control bombers (although of course we are aware that these are alledgedly actually police/army loyal to TRT that set off the bombs in CentralWorld area in late 2006 anyhow)

- introducing (for the first time) some actual sound basic budgeting and strategic planning to how the BMA runs rather than endless stop gap measures - we of course need him to stay a bit longer to get more done rather than just a plan

- clear building guidelines and regulations to control city development - far more stringent and green friendly than previously

- introduction of more transparent guidelines for bidding and selecting contractors - still a fair bit of trough feeding but less than before by miles

Compare that to the current PM and former governor:

- corrupt acquisition of some fire trucks

- allowing polystyrene kratongs

- running a cooking show

Well done although I doubt this guy really cares about facts.