Burning Continues And Air Quality Issues

[scotbeve]

What can be done we ask???

For starters, any government folk can have a quick peruse of some of the threads on this site and get a feel of our reaction to this problem. Perhaps, if any forum members or guests that have friends in high(er) places can have a chat over a beer or coffee.. I try to bring this up in conversation repeatedly (but informally) with several friends and aquaintances whenever the oppurtunity exists.

[Mapguy]

For those who like some visual data, there is a very good site (at the University of Maryland Department of Geography) at which you can view fire maps of Thailand, as well as of other places.

Try this url: http://maps.geog.umd.edu/firms/maps.asp

There are a lot of data represented on these maps, so it is suggested that in selecting vectors (physical and cultural characteristics) to draw on the map that you start with just one for Thailand, provincial boundaries. Otherwise, depending upon your download capabilities, the maps can be both slow to download and difficult to interpret. High speed connections clearly are helpful.

There are other ways to zero in on local conditions. More on that later.

[Mapguy]

For those who like some visual data, there is a very good site (at the University of Maryland Department of Geography) at which you can view fire maps of Thailand, as well as of other places.

Try this url: http://maps.geog.umd.edu/firms/maps.asp

There are a lot of data represented on these maps, so it is suggested that in selecting vectors (physical and cultural characteristics) to draw on the map that you start with just one for Thailand, provincial boundaries. Otherwise, depending upon your download capabilities, the maps can be both slow to download and difficult to interpret. High speed connections clearly are helpful.

There are other ways to zero in on local conditions. More on that later.

In case your internet connection is clunky:

Fire_Map_25_MAR_2008.pdf

[Priceless]

This might just be what the region needs:

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His Majesty monitoring smog in the North

His Majesty the King is concerned about thick smog cause by forest fires in the North and has been monitoring the environmental condition in Chiang Mai on a daily basis, Amnart Decha, groundskeeper for Phu Phing Palace, said on Tuesday.

"His Majesty might dispatch a team for cloud seeding to induce articifial rain to clear up the smog," he said.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Nation 25 March 2008

I hope this post is not in violation of Forum rules. In case it is, please remove ASAP.

/ Priceless

[Priceless]

Theres a lovely palace in Hua hin.

Hows the research going can you see doi suthep yet. Surely youre figures should suggest yes but maybe alas no.

Seems like a large can of worms has been opened and I as a resident will try and do my small bit when I have to return there tomorrow.

I LOVE CHIANG MAI BUT ITS CURRENTLY UNINHABITABLE.

Currently in Lopburi which is super horrible

Well, it's dark now so I can't, but I surely could during the day. It has still been hazy with much lower visibility than one would wish for, but at least it is much better (less bad?) than during the weekend. The pollution level (PM<10) has gone down by more than half since the worst day, but is still quite uncomfortable for asthmatics and other sensitive people, I'm sure

/ Priceless

[mobs00]

"The air quality in Chiang Mai on Tuesday was measured at 81 microgrammes per cubic metre (mgcm) and 119 mg/cb. The maximum safety level is below 120 mgcm." Monday figures

I pulled this from the Nation.

This has to be a joke. Yesterday I could not even see Doi Suthep it was so bad. I think visibility wise it was the worst this month. Today my friend and I were commenting on how at least today we could see the mountain today.

I know the Tuesday measurements are in fact for Monday so therein is where my point lies.

Again I am not a conspiracy theorist, but come on, my eyes were not lying! I would suspect there was some "adjustments" yesterday. Maybe they only turned on the monitoring station in their air conditioned office.

Priceless, even you must be a little bit suspect of these numbers.

Edited March 25, 2008 by mobs00

[Mapguy]

"The air quality in Chiang Mai on Tuesday was measured at 81 microgrammes per cubic metre (mgcm) and 119 mg/cb. The maximum safety level is below 120 mgcm." Monday figures

I pulled this from the Nation.

This has to be a joke. Yesterday I could not even see Doi Suthep it was so bad. I think visibility wise it was the worst this month. Today my friend and I were commenting on how at least today we could see the mountain today.

I know the Tuesday measurements are in fact for Monday so therein is where my point lies.

Again I am not a conspiracy theorist, but come on, my eyes were not lying! I would suspect there was some "adjustments" yesterday. Maybe they only turned on the monitoring station in their air conditioned office.

Priceless, even you must be a little bit suspect of these numbers.

Without feeling the need to check them, I am confident that Priceless' numbers are correct although I do not always agree with his analysis re periods he uses for comparison of data to demonstrate whether or not the situation is improving. But that is beside the point.

Your eyesight is not failing you, but we can not calibrate your eyes! And not all air pollutants are visible anyway!

Another reason the numbers might be "off" compared to your eyeballed assessment is that the monitoring stations don't record what you see because of their location. Note that there are three monitoring stations in Chiang Mai Province. One is located at Uparaj inside the moat. Chiang Mai is a large province. I am not certain (working on it!) where the other two stations are located. One, I think, is a mobile testing unit that moves about the province. Pollution can definitely vary from one place to another: from the pristine environment apparently surrounding UG's shop most of the time (!) to the slopes of Doi Suthep, wherever they are !! However, there is an overall effect across the area due to the weather and the topography.

What I suggest for everyone is that the situation not be viewed through rose-colored glasses.

Here's what the satellite saw on 24 March:

Fire_Map_25_MAR_2008.pdf

[mobs00]

The amount of PM10 (particulate matter smaller than 10 microns) detected was under 120 micrograms per cubic metre. A station at Chiang Mai City Hall had 81.1, in downtown Chiang Mai it was 86.2, and a station at Phu Phing Ratchaniwet Palace measured 119.6 micrograms per cubic metre.

Source: The Nation

[KevinHunt]

Theres a lovely palace in Hua hin.

Hows the research going can you see doi suthep yet. Surely youre figures should suggest yes but maybe alas no.

Seems like a large can of worms has been opened and I as a resident will try and do my small bit when I have to return there tomorrow.

I LOVE CHIANG MAI BUT .ITS CURRENTLY UNINHABITABLE

Currently in Lopburi which is super horrible

Mars is CURRENTLY UNINHABITABLE. As far as we know no-one can live there. Chiang Mai, like most cities, has an air-quality issue and at some times of the year it may affect you. However, it is still very much habitable and a great place to be. Which is probably why you're coming back - with or without your gas-mask.

Currently in Chiang Mai which is fine, as far as I can see (Doi Suthep).

[Gravelrash]

His Majesty the King has voiced concern over the haze situation in the North as the air quality in several northern provinces is poised to reach danger levels (Todays Bangkok Post).

[Gravelrash]

(BangkokPost.com) - His Majesty the King is concerned about smog caused by forest fires in Chiang Mai province, the groundskeeper of Phu Ping Palace, Amnart Decha said.

Mr Amnart said His Majesty worries smoke and haze from the fires will cause health problems, and has asked his staff to report the details of the haze to the Royal Household Bureau daily.

If the problem is not alleviated, His Majesty will induce artificial rains to reduce the haze, Mr Amnart said.

He added that authorities are trying to prevent forest encroachment, considered a major cause of the fires.

Chiang Mai and the North suffer from heavy haze at the outset of the hot season every year, from thousands of fires set by companies and farmers to clear their land for the imminent crop-planting.

Most years, the haze gets so bad that airlines have to cancel flights to smaller airports in the nothern region.

[Priceless]

"The air quality in Chiang Mai on Tuesday was measured at 81 microgrammes per cubic metre (mgcm) and 119 mg/cb. The maximum safety level is below 120 mgcm." Monday figures

I pulled this from the Nation.

This has to be a joke. Yesterday I could not even see Doi Suthep it was so bad. I think visibility wise it was the worst this month. Today my friend and I were commenting on how at least today we could see the mountain today.

I know the Tuesday measurements are in fact for Monday so therein is where my point lies.

Again I am not a conspiracy theorist, but come on, my eyes were not lying! I would suspect there was some "adjustments" yesterday. Maybe they only turned on the monitoring station in their air conditioned office.

Priceless, even you must be a little bit suspect of these numbers.

Since you address me directly, I guess I owe you a (long-winded) reply:

Where I am located, near the Night Safari, Sunday (23 March) was without doubt the worst day so far this year. It was impossible to make out even the outlines of Doi Suthep and Doi Kham. The Pollution Control Department figures published on 24 March (i.e. covering the time from 9:00 AM Sunday until 9:00 AM Monday) was 171.3 ug/m3, which is extremely high.

The following day visibility had improved so that we could see both the mountains, albeit shrouded in a bluish grey haze. When looking at the PCD pollution figure yesterday (i.e. the one dated 25 March) it was 81.1 ug/m3, a significant decrease.

Yesterday (Tuesday) I could stand on my balcony looking at Doi Kham, easily distinguishing both the giant Buddha and the chedi at Wat Doi Kham. When looking at the PCD figure a few minutes ago, it showed a further decrease to 67.3 ug/m3.

(All the PCD figures above are from the "Chiang Mai" measuring station, i.e. the City Hall according to your later post.)

The above description in no way proves that the PCD figures are correct, of course. However, they certainly don't support the idea of "adjustments" either, since the figures move in the same way that our subjective perception of changes in the visibility does (i.e. lower figures=>better visibility and vice versa).

So, how come your differing perception of the visibility?

- First of all, you may be located in a different place. Pollution, like weather, can differ very much between different locations, even if they are fairly close to each other. (E.g. note the high figure of 119.6 ug/m3 for Phu Phing palace on Doi Suthep on 25 March, when the figure was 81.1 at City Hall.)

- Secondly, we are talking about your and my subjective perceptions of visibility. These can be pretty far off any measurable reality, for one reason or another.

On Friday night (21 March) you posted about flying in from Bangkok and seeing a lot of burning in Lamphun and Lampang. Considering the apparently southeasterly winds that we had at the end of last week, it seems to be a reasonable assumption that the smoke from those fires is what we got over the weekend. A proportion of that smoke now seems to have been blown away (pity the people of Maehongson, that seem to have got it from us).

All in all, there seems to two reasons to suspect that the PCD figures are "doctored":

- The existence of a (albeit rather far-fetched) motive, i.e. the interests of the local tourist industry.

- Your conviction that they are being "doctored".

I am very sorry, but these two reasons, taken together, do not even constitute circumstantial evidence to my mind

/ Priceless

[scotbeve]

Priceless,

I think you got it right in one (albeit 2)..... Reverse logic catch-22

[pichai]

The local government has been asking the farmers and people staying in the outskirt of Chiangmai not to burn the leaves or rubbish. What about the rubbish where to dispose? The local government should dispatch rubbish trucks to collect the it, otherwise, what do you expect the people to do with the rubbish keep and sell it...

I still see farmers and people burning, a problem that is not easily to be solved.

[sabaijai]

The local government has been asking the farmers and people staying in the outskirt of Chiangmai not to burn the leaves or rubbish. What about the rubbish where to dispose? The local government should dispatch rubbish trucks to collect the it, otherwise, what do you expect the people to do with the rubbish keep and sell it...

I still see farmers and people burning, a problem that is not easily to be solved.

Good point.

[Priceless]

From today's Bangkok Post on the net:

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Haze keeps visitors away from Chiang Mai

(BangkokPost.com) – The tourist industry has felt the impact of the haze, especially in Chiang Mai province.

Hotel occupancy just two weeks ahead of the Songkran holiday has yet to reach 50 per cent, when it is normally at between 85-90 per cent during this time of the year, officials claim.

Boonlert Burnaporn, an official from the tourist industry, said the haze is estimated to have caused a loss of hundreds of millions of baht in income.

“We already had the bad economy to deal with before this. Now we have to deal with another problem so it’s a great burden,” he complained.

“The government really needs to address this problem because it’s the second year now that the haze has had an impact on the tourist industry,” he added.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's hope that he means that the government needs to address the problem of pollution, not the problem of low occupancy rates

Seriously, I think it's a very good thing that the tourism industry are beginning to express their worries, this can probably help a lot more than whatever we express on ThaiVisa. It also appears that last year's horrible situation (and the media attention it got) is spilling over into this year, which is (at least on average) much better, or less bad.

/ Priceless

[Hugh Jarse]

I am awake in the night as I write this with a burning chest and a throbbing headache. The neighbors here in the Wat Pong Noi area 3 KM south of CMU are burning leaves like they do almost every night but today the smoke is especially thick at my rental house. Earlier today I took a bike ride up to Doi Kham, the hill west of the airport with the beautiful white Buddha statue. A crew of four people were raking the leaves on the side of the road, and burning them. On this road, they could easily just push the leaves over the side of the road into the deep forest gullies and let them decompose naturally. But they don't…. they burn them.

I have printed up cards that politely tell of the health risks and possible affects on tourism. The cards also provide an alternative idea to compost. I hand them out when I see people burning but they seem to have little impact.

My father and sister died of lung cancer in their fifties and I am concerned that if I stay in Thailand, I will be next. The issue of vile smoke pollution never crossed my mind as I made the decision to move to this beautiful country two years ago, but now I am afraid it will make me leave.

So I ask you, is there anything that could be done to get the colleges and the government to become involved to stop the burning once and for all? Do you have contacts that would want to get involved? Also, what are the current phone numbers that can be called outside of the city of Chiang Mai that might possibly rally law enforcement of a practice that I understand is illegal? Chiang Mai has a very high respiratory illness level and eliminating the burning would sure help that a lot. What are the things that concerned Thai nationals and visitors can do on this issue? The city of Chiang Mai is getting good results reducing the burning so now it would be good to expand those successes to outlying areas.

[Hugh Jarse]

I understand that the Monarch has asked that smog levels be monitored. Lets hope this leads to some positive change .

[Rinrada]

With some of my neighbours i spent almost 2 days and nights wandering round the mountains in mae-On putting out these dam_n fires with a hoe and a banana leaves so hopefully the tourists will appreciate our efforts.....and come ...koff koff...

Was expecting hundreds of water carrying choppers from whatever boy scout dept wot is supposed to douse "em but nuffing....suppose they can t see in the dark or..summit......

Anyway back in Bangers for the end of the jolly.......nice....incid ...Suwanna last night was a dream.......absolutely no problems and they appear to have got/getting their act together....unlike wotsit...heathrow.....

[meadish_sweetball]

Subjectively, the air quality seemed equally bad in Pai yesterday as well as in the morning today.

[Priceless]

Subjectively, the air quality seemed equally bad in Pai yesterday as well as in the morning today.

For the last week or so Mae Hong Son has had worse pollution than Chiang Mai, according to the Pollution Control Department figures. Seems reasonable that this might affect Pai as well, since it appears to have come this way from the southeast (Lamphun and Lampang).

/ Priceless

[chiang mai]

According to the Bangkok Post of two days ago the PM10 readings for CM are taken at the kings palace above Doi Suthep (the name escapes currently) and coincidentally the reading was 199.7, just below the WHO maximum acceptable level of 120. But for the love of God everyone, this is an annual event and the same things get said every year, by different people and to a slightly different audience. Two years ago a radio station in Bangkok reported the PM10 levels in CM as 240 and nobody seemed to care or pay attention. Look, if you love CM that much, stay there and die. If you don't, vote with your feet.

[Priceless]

According to the Bangkok Post of two days ago the PM10 readings for CM are taken at the kings palace above Doi Suthep (the name escapes currently) and coincidentally the reading was 199.7, just below the WHO maximum acceptable level of 120. But for the love of God everyone, this is an annual event and the same things get said every year, by different people and to a slightly different audience. Two years ago a radio station in Bangkok reported the PM10 levels in CM as 240 and nobody seemed to care or pay attention. Look, if you love CM that much, stay there and die. If you don't, vote with your feet.

Oh NO, not again... I think we all agree that the air quality in Chiang Mai could, and should, be much, much better. That said, a few additions/corrections to your post:

- The reading at the (temporary) measuring station at Phu Phing palace was 119.6, not 199.7 (possibly a typo).

- The "WHO maximum acceptable level" is actually the Thai national maximum (I think set by the Pollution Control Department). This is supposedly never to be exceeded, though we all know it is. To put this into perspective, the corresponding US value, set by the Environmental Protection Agency, is 150 ug/m3. This value is not to be exceeded more than once per year, as a three year average. The EU value is 50 ug/m3, which however may be exceeded up to 35 times per year with no definite upper limit.

- You mention "two years ago", i.e. 2006. By chance, this was maybe the "best" year we've had in Chiang Mai this century, with "only" 5 days with PM<10 air pollution in excess of 120 ug/m3 and a yearly median of 34.0 ug/m3.

I think it is grossly overstating an admittedly serious problem to equate living in Chiang Mai with suicide. The discussions in this forum lately have, to my mind, shown that there are a lot of constructive activities going on, both on the side of the government and by groups of concerned residents, Thai as well as farang.

The kind of uninformed scare-mongering that your post is representative of can, I think, only hurt the the good work being done in raising an informed and concerned opinion.

/ Priceless

Edited March 28, 2008 by Priceless

[moneyshot]

Priceless,

What is the pollution reading for Bangkok?

I lived on Sukhumvit for a year and it was most definitely worse than what I have experienced here in Chiang Mai.

[mcgriffith]

I think it is an admittedly serious problem to equate living in Chiang Mai with suicide. The discussions in this forum lately have, to my mind, shown that there are a lot of constructive activities going on, both on the side of the government and by groups of concerned residents, Thai as well as farang.

Here, here....(clapping hands sound) Priceless.

Truth is, it was quite miserable here in our chosen city today.

Friday 28 March seemed to back to the very beginning of the week in my subjective eyeball opinion. Have no idea what the numbers will be.

Most importantly was your point regarding the ongoing momentum, both among we the farang, and many Thais who are cognizant of the importance of addressing this environmental issue. The recent news release (see elsewhere on this site) regarded HM asking for info on North Thailand particulate matter level......very positive. People know this has to be, and will be taken care of. Soon, hopefully.

But tonight I see light at the end of the tunnel...!?

It's called Songkran. Ready your weapons.....Water War III will be upon us shortly.

[Priceless]

Priceless,

What is the pollution reading for Bangkok?

I lived on Sukhumvit for a year and it was most definitely worse than what I have experienced here in Chiang Mai.

The last few weeks Bangkok has been somewhat less polluted than CM. But you're right, the Din Daeng area in Bangkok has about twice the frequency of "bad days" (i.e. PM<10 in excess of 120 ug/m3) than Chiang Mai does. So does Lampang, by the way (well not quite twice, but 60% more).

/ Priceless

[moneyshot]

Why is it that Chiang Mai gets such bad press about pollution when there are other areas in Thailand that are worse eg. Bangkok, Saraburi...

Don't get me wrong, I think something needs to be done to reduce the problem but its not so bad that it warrants packing up and leaving- at least for me.

[chiang mai]

According to the Bangkok Post of two days ago the PM10 readings for CM are taken at the kings palace above Doi Suthep (the name escapes currently) and coincidentally the reading was 199.7, just below the WHO maximum acceptable level of 120. But for the love of God everyone, this is an annual event and the same things get said every year, by different people and to a slightly different audience. Two years ago a radio station in Bangkok reported the PM10 levels in CM as 240 and nobody seemed to care or pay attention. Look, if you love CM that much, stay there and die. If you don't, vote with your feet.

Oh NO, not again... I think we all agree that the air quality in Chiang Mai could, and should, be much, much better. That said, a few additions/corrections to your post:

- The reading at the (temporary) measuring station at Phu Phing palace was 119.6, not 199.7 (possibly a typo).

- The "WHO maximum acceptable level" is actually the Thai national maximum (I think set by the Pollution Control Department). This is supposedly never to be exceeded, though we all know it is. To put this into perspective, the corresponding US value, set by the Environmental Protection Agency, is 150 ug/m3. This value is not to be exceeded more than once per year, as a three year average. The EU value is 50 ug/m3, which however may be exceeded up to 35 times per year with no definite upper limit.

- You mention "two years ago", i.e. 2006. By chance, this was maybe the "best" year we've had in Chiang Mai this century, with "only" 5 days with PM<10 air pollution in excess of 120 ug/m3 and a yearly median of 34.0 ug/m3.

I think it is grossly overstating an admittedly serious problem to equate living in Chiang Mai with suicide. The discussions in this forum lately have, to my mind, shown that there are a lot of constructive activities going on, both on the side of the government and by groups of concerned residents, Thai as well as farang.

The kind of uninformed scare-mongering that your post is representative of can, I think, only hurt the the good work being done in raising an informed and concerned opinion.

/ Priceless

Two questions:

Firstly, I do not equate living in CM with suicide but I do associate living in CM with a much shorter life expectancy and a far poorer quality of life - thousands of CM residents are testimony to that fact. As for the current constructive debate regarding a solution: I have been a party to such debates over the years and yes they can be constructive from a theoretical standpoint. In practical terms however they are impotent well intentioned forums that achieve very little. But first, two questions:

1) do you believe that living in CM between January and May each year is seriously detrimental to a persons health?

2) do you honestly and realistically believe that the extent of the pollution in CM during the subject months will be reduced to safe levels within the next twenty years?

It is impossible to argue a case for a no answer to question number one because of the extent of medical evidence on the subject. As for question number two, if you argue in favor of a yes answer you must also set out a realistic "how". BTW, CM was my home for many years hence I am familiar wit the issues and have seen the arguments repeated annually.

[rethaired]

t seems to me that the government should be providing incentives and enacting laws to slowly but surely have people use cleaner motorcycles, tuk tuks, etc. For one thing, they could raise the minimum wage and give incentives for people to buy cleaner fuel/transportation. Speaking of which, a cleaner public transportation system (ie: tuk tuks, since I have yet to have taken the official public buses, for obvious reasons) would be a good step! Can we change the colors of those buses to something a bit more conspicuous for a start or buy more of those buses/retrofit tuk tuks with cleaner technology (bigger or smaller buses as the need demands it). And this little invention could persuade a few, poor Thai folks burning plastic (if given a few satangs) that they should give it away to a government or farang joint-venture (http://cornucopierre.blogspot.com/2008/01/plastic2petrol-cheaply.html#links)

I am generously giving the first satang!

And this is, folks, my 2 satangs worth on this matter!

So, you owe me 1!

[Ulysses G.]

What did the Ding-dong brigade do before Al Gore invented the Internet?