Dowry

[benny]

Contrary to public belief, people are able to maintain an element of normality in their relationships here. Perhaps people will shoot me down, because i do not buy into the whole "thai-Wife' way of thinking. I see my partner as an equal, and have since the first day that we met. We married after getting to know each other thoroughly; after we were sure that was what we wanted. And yes, I did pay a dowry, a large dowry, and yes it was returned to me plus the generous gifts that her family bestowed on us. ( I shared this actual experience with Caravelle) Does that make my wife different from others? I (and again I would imagine that we differ on this point) believe (not in any wacky religious sense) that people are fundamentally good - you on the other hand would say that I beat the stakes, I guess!

Of course, there are situations here that justify a degree of caution. If you are considerably older/ younger than your partner, have never met, have nothing in common, and decide to marry based on nothing more than she a few words on an email, then the probability for success I would imagine is greatly reduced. But then again what do you expect?

Back to the point though. I believe that Caravelle has got to know his partner, has got to know her family and is fairly happy with the way that his relationship is progressing - I hope that he does not take to heart your generalisations.

[chonabot]

Are you caravelles bird then? Or just on a percentage.

[Bud Zumwalt]

???

Whose getting married on the basis of email, email gets you the introduction minus seaching the bars, marriage intro services, hitting on the nurses at the hospital while having plastic surgery or in your case maybe something else. Yes email searches have some merit, but it is usually the Thai ladies who try to finalize things over the email. When you have half the world between you and you want more than just a taxi ride to your hotel, I guess by emailing, pen paling with or even talking serious matters over the internet is just bad taste for you conservatives .. fat old men having to pay these ladies, their families, for their email and excuse me what makes these respectable ladies any better than the bar girls getting the money the hard way on their backs. Contemporary, innovated Thai families should not ask for money. And running a background check is not so unheard off. How many guys have read about scams and dowries on this very site, I have only been reading these posts a few weeks and it has come up twice! Before I would ever marry anyone I would do a background check, live with her at least a year and get to know her family personally on a regular basis. Perhaps then I would pay a fair dowry, but really this old trandition is becoming just an excuse for helping a family who is starving, or needy. Sell their daughter to the highest bidder, ues that is so upper class.

Bud

[benny]

Do me a favor Bud, try and give me and others advice when you are in a position to do so.  Avoid generalisations, they benefit no one.

 fat old men having to pay these ladies, their families, for their email

I am 28, healthy and not an ounce of plastic on my body.

Lets stop this now.

[Bud Zumwalt]

???

To Benny,

I am so glad you do not need plastic surgery at age 28, I did not either, so we have something in common.

Fact is at 28 I am sure you have your entire life in front of you, and I sincerely hope you find if you have not already a fine Thai lady to spend that life with.

I truly believe they can offer a male much more than their Western counterparts and if paying a dowry is that price, I guess when it comes down too it the price is not so high after all. I just think that dual pricing is unfair, I mean what does a Thai man pay in relationship to a Westerner? I wonder if anyone knows that one? It seems the dowry is really from a time far gone, maybe the culture needs an update or at least fair pricing, minus the daul pricing.

Bud

[Edward B]

maybe the culture needs an update

That's gonna go down in history as the dumbest thing ever written.

[Bud Zumwalt]

???

I guess you were one of the guys who just loved paying the price. But really in a contemporary, innovated and super power country like the United States of America, we nor anyone in the Westernized world pay dowries. So you know what, just maybe a culture update is in order. And maybe paying a dowry in this day and age is the dummist thing I ever heard of.

Humble Buddy..

[parryhandy]

theres a theory i read that says when people ask other people, especially strangers, about a decicision that has to be made they have already subconciously decided what they will do anyway. i think this is true 100 percent.you mentioned you could walk away in an earlier post . rubbish. all the good advice given to you , youve ignored because you didnt want to hear that.one minute you have doubts the next you say a 15k dowry aint so bad.sucker born every minute.

is your girlfriend really a proper nurse. i doubt it.why does she go to all that trouble and now decide to marry a farang.

oh yes course youll get the dowry back now the family know youve got a tidy sum that can be siphoned if and when. plus you are taking their daughter to a foreign country in which she will and therfore them  be set up for life.

all this about not asking for money, not talk about it on e

-mail,meeting the family where you are kept isolated with them,her talking to other guys on e-mail (emotional blackmail) etc.. is all standard practise for keeping you keen.

at the end of the day why get married .why not just live together for a while see how it goes and try doing it without throwing money around and see if things stay the same then.

i think whatever happens youve already decided your getting value for money.

good luck    ho ho ho

[D80]

But really in a contemporary, innovated and super power country like the United States of America, we nor anyone in the Westernized world pay dowries. So you know what, just maybe a culture update is in order. And maybe paying a dowry in this day and age is the dummist thing I ever heard of

Oh my Buddha!  Hahahah That is CLASSIC!  

I can't even begin to write what is on my mind right now reading this part of your post.  I'm sorry Bud... I try not to pigeonhole people... but you do fit all the stereotypes of an American.  It really does make me smile.  

[DaveYo]

Bud, you were talking of meeting some girls when you arrive in Thailand.  How come you now into dowry.  Did you have a zip lock wedding?

:blues: :laugh:

[Bud Zumwalt]

To Dave Yo,

Follow me around in Bangkok too, I can show you somethings.

Anyway thanks for the great advise on how to handle her. Good advise from a fellow American.

The reason I am here is only advise on dowry.

Somehow, many farang men have problems understanding about dowries and "bride-prices" and the somewhat cold-bloodedness that Asian societies seem to have in making a marriage into something of a financial transaction, as opposed to just a union of 2 people in love.

Now, before anyone here accuses me of being an jerk racist, let me clarify that I have the deepest respect for BOTH the Asian beliefs as well as the farang beliefs, for both have shaped my thoughts over the years and continue to do so.

With that little disclaimer out of the way, permit me to share some thoughts. Bud is such an expert on everything, no I am not, but please listen.

This thing about dowries, bride-prices (for the sake of saving typing I'll just use the word "dowry" to mean both, OK?) might not be so mystical if we try to understand the history and background of the people involved.

A few generations from now, I think the concept of dowries will also die off in Asia, indeed it is already diminishing all over Asia in the more prosperous and educated parts, but as per the current socioeconomic status of many Asian societies, it still seems relevant.

Most Asian families, as I am sure I mentioned sometime ago, have roots in poverty, and  bringing up children for poor people is a continual struggle with many difficult decisions to be made. to have a few children, better chances to feed/educate but if some die due to disease, etc., the family can be wiped out OR have many children and hope some survive and can help out when parents grow old?

To have more sons or daughters, which to educate and which to send for work at early age? Some societies favored sons so much they used to kill off newborn daughters. to feed all children equally well or feed the promising ones better and let the "weaker" or "inferior" children do as best as they can?

Many years to support the children, e.g. could they ask an unemployed daughter aged 15 or 20 or 25 to leave the house, or could any child stay with the parents for as long as they wanted at which point could they say a child is "independent": can they say a son or daughter is independent when they get married and move to a different town?

For some of these issues, you will have to understand that Government social services etc are as good as non-existent for Asians. They have no real expectation of Unemployment benefits, Old-Age funds (except government employees who have pensions), ... so you decide.

Bud

[markt]

Dowries are buying a wife, nothing more, nothing less.

By saying that you paid up because you respect their culture/traditions etc is kidding yourself.

If you don't pay, you don't marry the woman you love.

[chonabot]

You go uh....gir....g.....bloke!

[Heng]

If you put yourself in a position equal to that of the bride's family (whether that means increasing OR decreasing your socio-economic position), dowry typically becomes a non-issue.  

Among Thais (and surely once in awhile among falangs and Thais), the dowry or any funds offered during the engagement ceremony, is returned (often in excess as a gift to the bride and groom).   Why?   Because it's JUST CEREMONIAL.        

Any idealistic westerner who feels that finances and love are unrelated to marriage obviously have never heard of western divorce courts, joint checking accounts, etc...    Love/romance/poetry are abstract concepts.  Finance and security are practical.    

[markt]

Any idealistic westerner who feels that finances and love are unrelated to marriage obviously have never heard of western divorce courts.      

What are they ?

[chonabot]

IS that like Country and Western?

[Heng]