Chinese Visa For Westerner Nearly Impossible

[toptuan]

As of April 16, the Chinese clamped on further restrictions for westerners applying for visas (now, add hotel confirmations, letters from host families, and round trip tickets in hand).

Looking forward to visiting Beijing during the Olympics, I kow-towed to their added requirements, and took all these things to the Chinese embassy in Bangkok yesterday. The visa clerk I dealt with was extremely rude. She misread the letter from my host family, missing an important date that was clearly stipulated in the letter, and then would not acknowledge her mistake when I pointed it out to her. She immediately slapped on four new requirements that are not published anywhere.

There were about 50 people, applying for visas yesterday morning, 10 of whom were westerners. Asking among the other westerners, none of them were granted visas, due to added requirements the clerks slapped on them--none of which requirements you can find anywhere (embassy website, bulletin board notices at consulate, etc.).

In 40 years of travel to over 30 countries, for business and tourism, I've never been refused a visa, so I'm not some drugged, loud-mouthed, flip-flop-bedecked backpacker trying to bludgeon his way through the visa consulate of the embassy. I showed up with a shirt and tie, and used proper decorum as I've always done in order to smooth the process.

Well that changed. Up to that point, I was courteous and polite. However, on seeing her obvious contempt at granting a visa despite all their posted requirements being met, I ended the interview with the statement that I would not visit China if I was paid to do so, and dam_n their Olympics, if this is their attitude toward visitors from the outside world.

I write this as a warning to other farangs in Thailand trying to visit China. Be prepared for a battle and many trips to the visa section to satisfy new, trumped-up requirements. I refuse to play the game; it's demeaning to someone who is intent on pumping several thousand dollars into their economy to see their spectacle put on for the world to show how much they've changed since third-world country days. Yeah, right.

Edited April 29, 2008 by toptuan

[peter991]

Thanks for posting your story TT. I was thinking of 'hopping over to China' and giving myself a birthday present, as the Olympics calls on my birthday.

Having read how you were treated, unless there's a post saying the complete opposite (and why!), China won't be seeing me.

Peter

[Prakanong]

They have been tightening up due to the Olympics I suppose - they are <deleted> scared of any problems

Singaporeans need a visa now - just implemented this month till after the gamess

[toptuan]

They have been tightening up due to the Olympics I suppose - they are <deleted> scared of any problems

Does the word "BACKFIRE" have any bearing here? It's tough throwing a party and locking the front door just before the guests arrive.

Edited April 29, 2008 by toptuan

[nonthaburial]

How strange, I hold a six month multi entry visa which is the second one I have held. Just as a matter of interest, this so called rude lady. Was she Chinese or Thai ??? If you really feel deflated or whatever why didnt you ask to see the Chinese Consul ?

[PattayaParent]

What were the four new requirements that were not published anywhere toptuan?

I'm about to apply for one myself and would like to be sure to have them before I rock up at the Embassy.

[cclub75]

Looking forward to visiting Beijing during the Olympics, I kow-towed to their added requirements, and took all these things to the Chinese embassy in Bangkok yesterday. The visa clerk I dealt with was extremely rude. She misread the letter from my host family, missing an important date that was clearly stipulated in the letter, and then would not acknowledge her mistake when I pointed it out to her. She immediately slapped on four new requirements that are not published anywhere.

There were about 50 people, applying for visas yesterday morning, 10 of whom were westerners. Asking among the other westerners, none of them were granted visas, due to added requirements the clerks slapped on them--none of which requirements you can find anywhere (embassy website, bulletin board notices at consulate, etc.).

It's perfectly normal.

The chinese are totally brainwashed. They saw that the "devils westerners" dared to critisize the chinese gvt and their damned olympic games... therefore immediate retaliation. The girl at the embassy feels that she has like a divine mission...

It's time for western countries to boycott this country.

After hundred years of slavery, then 100 years of colonial occupation, and then 60 years of brutal communism, the chinese know only one language : force.

I'm glad that this farce (the olympics) allows the world to see -at last- the real face of China : a brutal regime, a totally retarded country, and brainwashed and fanatic people.

[toptuan]

How strange, I hold a six month multi entry visa which is the second one I have held. Just as a matter of interest, this so called rude lady. Was she Chinese or Thai ??? If you really feel deflated or whatever why didnt you ask to see the Chinese Consul ?

Did you obtain it since the recent Olympic torch fiascoes and the Tibet uprising? I could not determine the nationality of the clerk. Lastly, I asked to speak to her supervisor and was denied, after which she pulled more requirements out of her hat.

The requirements were specific to my trip: She wanted copies of ID cards of any Chinese I might visit (I had a host family in China), she wanted an extremely detailed itinerary of all travel within China--more than just a list of places (with, of course, hotel confirmation at all locations--but that's a given). For the confirmations I did have--she wanted handwritten signatures on each and every confirmation. Lastly, the e-ticket confirmation was unacceptable--she required actual paper tickets in hand. As I talked with other westerners, they all were given added requirements specific to their situation--no blanket-type requirements for everyone.

I've dealt with visa people all over the world for decades. If they've been told to clamp down on visitors' visas for whatever reason, they can pull anything out of their hats, and you have to swallow it. I've mostly experienced the difficult side of this with Thai immigration, and have been lucky elsewhere.

Not this time!

Edited April 29, 2008 by toptuan

[LaoPo]

Looking forward to visiting Beijing during the Olympics, I kow-towed to their added requirements, and took all these things to the Chinese embassy in Bangkok yesterday. The visa clerk I dealt with was extremely rude. She misread the letter from my host family, missing an important date that was clearly stipulated in the letter, and then would not acknowledge her mistake when I pointed it out to her. She immediately slapped on four new requirements that are not published anywhere.

There were about 50 people, applying for visas yesterday morning, 10 of whom were westerners. Asking among the other westerners, none of them were granted visas, due to added requirements the clerks slapped on them--none of which requirements you can find anywhere (embassy website, bulletin board notices at consulate, etc.).

It's perfectly normal.

The chinese are totally brainwashed. They saw that the "devils westerners" dared to critisize the chinese gvt and their damned olympic games... therefore immediate retaliation. The girl at the embassy feels that she has like a divine mission...

It's time for western countries to boycott this country.

After hundred years of slavery, then 100 years of colonial occupation, and then 60 years of brutal communism, the chinese know only one language : force.

I'm glad that this farce (the olympics) allows the world to see -at last- the real face of China : a brutal regime, a totally retarded country, and brainwashed and fanatic people.

You're using very strong words, cclub75....

"...therefore immediate retaliation"

"a brutal regime, a totally retarded country, and brainwashed and fanatic people."

When was the last time you were in China ? IMHO it's not done to use such words based upon a message about a bad experience by Toptuan. But, I know, it's fashion nowadays to bash upon China, by ignorant people and -watchers.

BTW, my wife is not retarded, brainwashed or fanatic, she's a kind, sweet and intelligent Chinese Lady

LaoPo

[cclub75]

You're using very strong words, cclub75....

"...therefore immediate retaliation"

"a brutal regime, a totally retarded country, and brainwashed and fanatic people."

When was the last time you were in China ? IMHO it's not done to use such words based upon a message about a bad experience by Toptuan. But, I know, it's fashion nowadays to bash upon China, by ignorant people and -watchers.

BTW, my wife is not retarded, brainwashed or fanatic, she's a kind, sweet and intelligent Chinese Lady

LaoPo

LaoPo... I m not speaking about your wife...

And yes, of course "there are some very decent chinese", and yes it s bad to make generalization. We know the drill.

But overall, I maintain my words.

And yes I ve been in China a few times. And I face every day their violent and vicious competition in business.

Did you see the scenes in Korea ? With the fight with hundred of chinese "students" ?

It s just another example of their extreme nationalism.

Nationalism + poverty + brutal regime + no moral conscience + lack of education = a powerful and sour cocktail.

Now the West is stupid enough to let its panties loose in front of the "Dragon", and to put its values into garbage... fair enough. But it s a major political mistake. That will cost us a lot.

[Pushit]

hinese entry visa does not look practical for anyone with an independent opinion.

Good Luck! I was but now I'm not going to Olympic Games all torn up !

[Naam]

After hundred years of slavery, then 100 years of colonial occupation, and then 60 years of brutal communism, the chinese know only one language : force.

I'm glad that this farce (the olympics) allows the world to see -at last- the real face of China : a brutal regime, a totally retarded country, and brainwashed and fanatic people.

cruise missiles or carpet bombing?

[LaoPo]

You're using very strong words, cclub75....

"...therefore immediate retaliation"

"a brutal regime, a totally retarded country, and brainwashed and fanatic people."

When was the last time you were in China ? IMHO it's not done to use such words based upon a message about a bad experience by Toptuan. But, I know, it's fashion nowadays to bash upon China, by ignorant people and -watchers.

BTW, my wife is not retarded, brainwashed or fanatic, she's a kind, sweet and intelligent Chinese Lady

LaoPo

LaoPo... I m not speaking about your wife...

And yes, of course "there are some very decent chinese", and yes it s bad to make generalization. We know the drill.

But overall, I maintain my words.

And yes I ve been in China a few times. And I face every day their violent and vicious competition in business.

Did you see the scenes in Korea ? With the fight with hundred of chinese "students" ?

It s just another example of their extreme nationalism.

Nationalism + poverty + brutal regime + no moral conscience + lack of education = a powerful and sour cocktail.

Now the West is stupid enough to let its panties loose in front of the "Dragon", and to put its values into garbage... fair enough. But it s a major political mistake. That will cost us a lot.

I'm sorry but your ignorance is huge....HUGE.

Ever heard about the Nanjing Massacre* where the Japanese killed, raped and buried thousands of Chinese.............also alive ?

"Thousands were led away and mass-executed in an excavation known as the "Ten-Thousand-Corpse Ditch", a trench measuring about 300m long and 5m wide. Since records were not kept, estimates regarding the number of victims buried in the ditch range from 4,000 to 20,000. However, most scholars and historians consider the number to be around 12,000 victims."

A total of 300,000 civilians were murdered, slaughtered, butchered in such a devastating, brutal way that it is beyond any imagination...

Have a read and study a bit more about China if you please before making comments like "..of course there are some very decent Chinese" just because I told you my wife is Chinese.

The people of China have suffered much more than anybody from the West can possibly anticipate.

I'll give you just one link but I could give you many more but opening it would make you sick and puke even more than the one below....

If you go to the bottom of that link I hope you can keep on breathing after seeing photos with your own eyes what happened in a few weeks of mass murder:

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

&

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/223038.stm

Note: if you have such difficulties with their fierce competition in your own business you** are the one doing something wrong, not the Chinese who want to make a living also, fighting for every Yuan, and: If you can't beat them.....

I know, since I did business with them for some 30 years.

Or are you saying that only you are entitled to make money and have a good living ?

** a Swedish friend of mine tried to do business in LOS; it took him a few months and decided he could NEVER do business within Thailand; so, he moved to China and is doing very well...BUT for leisure and holidays he prefers LOS...of course, and so does my wife and me.

If you are shouting and bashing it shows YOU are doing something wrong; bashing and shouting doesn't help; being smart & intelligent does.

LaoPo

[Ricardo]

Looking forward to visiting Beijing during the Olympics, I kow-towed to their added requirements, and took all these things to the Chinese embassy in Bangkok yesterday. The visa clerk I dealt with was extremely rude. She misread the letter from my host family, missing an important date that was clearly stipulated in the letter, and then would not acknowledge her mistake when I pointed it out to her. She immediately slapped on four new requirements that are not published anywhere.

There were about 50 people, applying for visas yesterday morning, 10 of whom were westerners. Asking among the other westerners, none of them were granted visas, due to added requirements the clerks slapped on them--none of which requirements you can find anywhere (embassy website, bulletin board notices at consulate, etc.).

It's perfectly normal.

The chinese are totally brainwashed. They saw that the "devils westerners" dared to critisize the chinese gvt and their damned olympic games... therefore immediate retaliation. The girl at the embassy feels that she has like a divine mission...

It's time for western countries to boycott this country.

After hundred years of slavery, then 100 years of colonial occupation, and then 60 years of brutal communism, the chinese know only one language : force.

I'm glad that this farce (the olympics) allows the world to see -at last- the real face of China : a brutal regime, a totally retarded country, and brainwashed and fanatic people.

But enough about their good points ...

[johnh101]

Is it really any more difficult than it is for most of the world to get a US entry visa ??????

They don't want to be arresting western pro tibet demonstraters live on the BBC. It will all be back to normal after the olympics.

Edited April 30, 2008 by johnh101

[skippybangkok]

The visa clerk I dealt with was extremely rude.

What else would you expect from the Main land? duhhhhhhhhhh

[pampal]

yawn

Another anti-China thread

[ercorn]

A 2 entry Chinese visa is availible in Hong Kong for 1500 HKD.Arrive early morning you will have it in the affternoon at the latest the next day.My agent in Hong Kong told that the visa rules to China will return back to normal after the Olympics (though I am not holding my breath).

[martin.agren]

http://www.chinaconsulate.se/eng/lsqz/qz/t425157.htm <- Note 1 says that you have to apply in your native country. Could that really be true? I'll not be in Sweden during the time you have to apply to get a valid visa.

[LaoPo]

http://www.chinaconsulate.se/eng/lsqz/qz/t425157.htm <- Note 1 says that you have to apply in your native country. Could that really be true? I'll not be in Sweden during the time you have to apply to get a valid visa.

If someone, wanting to visit China, is not in his/her home country..have a travel agent arrange the visa. Lots of people do that, not familiar with/in a foreign country.

LaoPo

[retiredusn]

Until we have more than ONE case and do not know the other half of the story believe I will hold my thoughts. Seems to be a lot of bashing without knowning the facts, But then some folks get bored easy.

[backflip]

Next time, apply for a business, not a tourist visa - it's easier to get.

[cmsally]

It also seems that if you don't have the return flight ticket and hotel booking you can't even enter the consulate building. Which is a bit of a catch 22 situation for those that want to find out exactly what the requirements are before they purchase the ticket and book the hotel. For instance if you want to make an overland trip entering from Macau or Hong Kong, is a ticket to there enough. If you are planning to spend a few months in China exactly how many nights accommodation do they want to see paid for?

A number of people I know have faced this dilemma and it has become such a hassle they have all cancelled their trips and planned to go elsewhere.

[ThunderDuck]

A number of people I know have faced this dilemma and it has become such a hassle they have all cancelled their trips and planned to go elsewhere.

I'm sure there are many thousands worldwide who's travel plans have been aborted ... including mois.

There is an informative thread on this issue in the Chiang Mai forum that predates this one, if ur interested.

[cmsally]

A number of people I know have faced this dilemma and it has become such a hassle they have all cancelled their trips and planned to go elsewhere.

I'm sure there are many thousands worldwide who's travel plans have been aborted ... including mois.

There is an informative thread on this issue in the Chiang Mai forum that predates this one, if ur interested.

With no return ticket (to mainland China that is) nor hotel booking (although they already had some email confirmations), my friends couldn't even get past the guard on the gate at the Chinese consulate in Chiang Mai

Doesn't exactly give one the confidence to rush out and buy a return ticket to Beijing and pay for a whole load of hotels.

[sabaijai]

Is it really any more difficult than it is for most of the world to get a US entry visa ??????

They don't want to be arresting western pro tibet demonstraters live on the BBC. It will all be back to normal after the olympics.

Not according to this New York Times article.

Bracing for Games, China Sets Rules That Complicate Life for Foreigners

BEIJING — In little more than 100 days, China will open its arms to a deluge of foreigners, many of whom will be pleasantly surprised to find a dizzying array of designer boutiques and painfully hip martini bars that divert expatriates and middle-class Chinese in this once dowdy capital.

Outside a visa application office in Hong Kong. China has imposed new restrictions on visas that concern many foreigners.

But even as Beijing is promising to welcome 1.5 million visitors to the Olympic Games, public security officials are tightening controls over daily life and introducing visa restrictions that are causing anxiety among the 250,000 foreigners who have settled here in recent years.

The visa rules, which were introduced last week with little explanation, restrict many visitors to 30-day stays, replacing flexible, multiple-entry visas that had allowed people to remain for up to a year. The new rules make it harder for foreigners to live and work in Beijing without applying for residency permits, which can be difficult to obtain. The restrictions are also complicating the lives of businesspeople in Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore used to crossing the border with ease.

“I can’t begin to explain how serious this is going to be,” said Richard Vuylsteke, president of the American Chamber of Commerce in Hong Kong. “A barrier like this is going to have a real ripple effect on business.”

The government wants to present a blemish-free image of Beijing for the Olympics. Police officers have cleared away street beggars and closed down shops selling pirated DVDs, while also forcing some migrant workers to go back to the countryside.

Over the last month the police have raided bars and clubs suspected of harboring drug dealers. An operation two weeks ago that netted a group of French teenagers has provoked charges of heavy-handed police tactics.

Other restrictions can seem random, like a decision on Wednesday that forced the cancellation of a popular music festival a week before its start. Organizers of the eight-year-old event, the Midi Festival, said officials had told them they were concerned about security. More than 80 bands, many of them from abroad, were scheduled to perform.

But most of the fear and consternation has been prompted by the new visa rules, which have thousands of foreign residents scrambling for black market documents — or contemplating leaving. Residents who in the past could apply locally to extend yearlong tourist or business visas have been instructed to return home and apply for the short-term visas at the Chinese Embassy in their home countries.

Some, like Desmond McGarry, a jazz musician who has lived here since 2002, said they would probably leave. For Mr. McGarry, returning to Canada would mean abandoning his apartment and a network of friends. “It’s been very comfortable until now, even if we existed in a gray zone,” he said. “Maybe I’ll leave and try to come back in the fall when things calm down.”

The new visa rules come at a time of heightened tensions in Beijing and other cities, where public anger has been directed at Western governments and overseas news organizations seen as sympathetic to Tibetan independence. Over the last week, that discontent has fueled demonstrations at the French Embassy in Beijing and at outlets of Carrefour, a French supermarket chain whose executives have been accused of aligning themselves with the Dalai Lama.

Some foreign residents are nervously awaiting next Thursday, the first day of a planned Carrefour boycott.

Although the majority of foreigners say they have seen no change in the behavior of their Chinese neighbors and co-workers, some French residents complain that nationalist ire is seeping into their daily lives. One businessman who plays tennis at a Chinese sports club said acquaintances refused to join him on the court last weekend.

More ominously, the owner of a popular French restaurant here said he was denied a visa extension on Wednesday by an official who simply told him, “It’s because you’re French.” The man, who asked that his name and business not be printed for fear of antagonizing the authorities, said he was in a panic. “My whole life is here,” he said.

Most Westerners readily acknowledge that they enjoy privileged lives, including unspoken immunity from the tangle of rules that can complicate the lives of average Chinese.

That may be about to change. Last week English-language signs began appearing on Beijing streets and in high-end apartment buildings directing foreigners not staying in hotels to register with the police. The regulations, which are not new but are rarely enforced, promise steep fines for those who do not comply.

Because the government has not issued formal guidelines about the new visa rules, rumors and uncertainty have been rife, and travel agents say that a handful of tourists have been denied visas without evident rationale.

Cloris Yip, the manager of Smiley Travel in Hong Kong, cited the example of two tourists, a Swiss and a German; the Swiss citizen received a 30-day visa while his German companion was given one for five days. The men, she said, canceled their trip.

“Maybe the Chinese government is not so happy with the Germans right now,” Ms. Yip said. “Maybe they think some foreigners want to protest Tibet during the Games. Either way, you cannot argue or negotiate.”

Businessmen are also feeling powerless. Hong Kong executives accustomed to visiting mainland factories or construction projects every few days are now spending one day each week waiting for new single- or double-entry visas.

“Everyone is affected by it, and they are very unhappy,” said Seth Peterson, a vice president of Techtronic Industries Company, which manufactures vacuum cleaners and power tools in southern China.

Asked about the restrictions, Jiang Yu, a Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, insisted that there had been no change in visa rules. “The Chinese people will welcome foreign friends in a warm, enthusiastic and open-minded way,” she said during a news conference on Tuesday.

Whether or not these are just temporary measures, those who depend on foreign expertise for their businesses say the impact has been real. Collin Crowell, the managing editor of City Weekend, an English-language entertainment guide in Beijing, said the new requirements were causing consternation among the magazine’s freelance writers.

And Raluca Riquet, an event planner who is organizing art shows for the summer, said she was struggling to find curators with valid visas.

“We’ll find a solution, but it’s not so easy,” said Ms. Riquet, who holds dual French and Romanian citizenship. “The government really wants to control everything and everybody before the Olympics. For us foreigners, it’s a really big change.”

I'm in China on holiday now, barely managed to get in as they continued to tighten visa regs. The word here is that this is new policy for the foreseeable future, not directly related to the Olympics but possibly, as someone posted above, in retaliation for Tibet protests around the world.

By the way all documents such as hotel confirmation and tickets must be original. No faxes, emails or photocopies are accepted. Toughest visa application I've ever been through -- I was refused four days in a row until I had everything exactly as required.

I've been coming to China semi-frequently since the early 80s, but I won't be planning any future holidays in China as long as this palpable atmosphere of xenophobia (among officials at least) continues.

[sabaijai]

A 2 entry Chinese visa is availible in Hong Kong for 1500 HKD.Arrive early morning you will have it in the affternoon at the latest the next day.My agent in Hong Kong told that the visa rules to China will return back to normal after the Olympics (though I am not holding my breath).

When did you last apply? Currently only single-entry, one-month visas are available worldwide.

[ercorn]

A 2 entry Chinese visa is availible in Hong Kong for 1500 HKD.Arrive early morning you will have it in the affternoon at the latest the next day.My agent in Hong Kong told that the visa rules to China will return back to normal after the Olympics (though I am not holding my breath).

When did you last apply? Currently only single-entry, one-month visas are available worldwide.

Applied and recieved visa on 29 May.Shoestring travel HK.

[davidxl]

I remember somewhere that on some application notes for Uk visitor visas that Chinese citizens should expect to wait longer than other nationalities as it was likely that their applications would be referred to the UK for an assessment and decision to be made their rather than the local embassy. Wonder why this is?

[LaoPo]

A 2 entry Chinese visa is availible in Hong Kong for 1500 HKD.Arrive early morning you will have it in the affternoon at the latest the next day.My agent in Hong Kong told that the visa rules to China will return back to normal after the Olympics (though I am not holding my breath).

When did you last apply? Currently only single-entry, one-month visas are available worldwide.

Applied and recieved visa on 29 May.Shoestring travel HK.

You mean 'March' ?

LaoPo