Amphetamine Problem

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

My daughter who is 40 and lives in Oregon has a drug problem with amphetamines. She has been using for about 10 years now and has become very paranoid.

Drugs are something I know little about and don’t know what approach to take in helping her. I’m afraid that sending money will just go toward more drugs, and make matters worse. She is living in a welfare apartment building and says it is full of mentally ill grown men. She also says she has been sexually abused and needs to move out of the apartment.

Says she is emotionally tattered and not sure of her mental state.

She has asked for my help which I am more than willing to give. But in doing so I don’t want to make matters worse.

Any suggestions on how to best give her assistance?

Advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Haven’t beentheredonethat.

[Prakanong]

Sorry to hear abouy your daughters and your problems.

Coud you get her to Thailand with you for a while - say 6 months or so? I know the drug is available in Thailand but she may not try to get it when you are around.

There are other board members with experience of this and know of help available in Thailand - I am sure they will point you in this direction

[kurgen]

Giving up class A's is very hard.

If you bring her to Thailand and she gets caught using she could either cost you a fortune in 'get out of jail free' money or end up doing some serious time.

Help her but be careful.

[grantbkk]

10 years of amphetamine abuse can only be mitigated with professional help. At this point there is nothing she can do on her own. She is aware that a problem exists but this knowledge will do her no good on her own. There are no feel good programs to free her of this physiological addiction. She has probably tried to quit over the past decade only going days at a time without the drug but was unsuccessful, backsliding within hours for just one more hit to give her a sense of balance. I'm guessing methamphetamine which is highly addictive.

Inpatient secure facilities will be her only salvation. 30 days of lock-down at minimum with months or years of followup to shore her up physiologically. It took 10 years to get where she is now. Thee will be no quick fix. Good luck.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

My wife and I have discussed having her come and visit but feel that is like putting the fox in the chicken coop. Very easy access here for drugs and she can be very resourcefull. So I'm affraid it would do her more harm than good.

In corresponding with her a quick reply from her is a week and a slow reply can be a couple of years, so it is hard to get information.

Thanks for the responses

BTDT

[distortedlink]

Although I am sympathetic with your daughter`s drug addition and emotional state, why are you coming on ThaiVisa with a problem that isn't Thailand related and is in need of professional advice that I doubt anyone on here can help with.

The way to deal with it is put your daughter in contact with a professional drug addition advisor or institution in the United States.

Edited May 10, 2008 by distortedlink

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

distortedlink

It is thailand related because I live in Thailand and have access to a group of people with an amazing amount of experience. Most of them are very helpfull and willing to provide information, then there is you.

[Totster]

Moved to Health forum

Totster

[way2muchcoffee]

1) Do not send her money under any circumstances. She is a drug addict and even though she may intend to use it to move house, she is extremely likely to spend the money on drugs. It is a virtual certainty.

2) Send her an email and ask her if she is willing to enter an intensive long-term drug treatment program. If she is, then you should fly back to Oregon an assist her in getting into one.

I would recommend a program in Seattle called 'SeaDruNar'. This treatment program is harsh, but effective. It involves 6 months of intensive work therapy and behavior modification therapy, coupled with AA/NA style support meetings. During the first three to six months clients are not allowed to leave the 'house' except to go to the program's 'recycling facility' where clients work six days per week, 8 hours per day. This is followed by a 3-month period during which clients move to another house, find a real job, and slowly integrate back into society while living in a carefully monitored and controlled environment. There is a lifetime of aftercare provided if any client wishes to remain part of the community. Since the clients are working to pay their treatment expenses there are often no monetary costs involved. The program is designed to provide the life skills and support tools necessary for the recovery of 'hard-core' addicts and alcoholics. Check out this website for more information: http://www.seadrunar.org/introduction.html

Edited May 10, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[geriatrickid]

Although I am sympathetic with your daughter`s drug addition and emotional state, why are you coming on ThaiVisa with a problem that isn't Thailand related and is in need of professional advice that I doubt anyone on here can help with.

The way to deal with it is put your daughter in contact with a professional drug addition advisor or institution in the United States.

Because she is in Thailand and needs help? I am an insensitive selfish guy, but that this has to be one of the most clueless responses I have ever read in a forum.

Perhaps you need to have a kid or sibling get jammed up like this to appreciate what the OP is experiencing. Newsflash for you Braniac; alot of expats in Thailand that have their families out of the country face problems similar to this. If it's not a kid, it's an elderly parent. It happens. Not everyone moves to Thailand and abandons their familial responsibilities, or is able to stop caring about their kids. If someone in here has experienced this before and can help out,then maybe, the OP's sanity and peace of mind will be preserved.

GrantBKK says it best. Wise advice. And under no circumstances bring the daughter here, for both your sakes.

Anyways, sorry to hear about your problem and I hope you hold up.

[way2muchcoffee]

Amphetamines are so readily available in Thailand that I wouldn't even consider bringing her here. Remember that Thai drug laws and Thai prisons are exceptionally harsh and brutal.

[hanibal7]

Sorry to hear about your daughter.Speed can be very addictive but not impssible to cure.My thoughts would be to bring her over to thailand,cham am for you i think,and stay with her for how long it takes.do not believe anything she says and keep a close watch.cha am and hua hin seem much betetr than bk/pattaya/phuket to me.maybe rent a place miles away from temptation and keep her busy.swimming and anything energetic will help to get the speed from her body and keep her fit and healthy.doing plenty of walking can keep her body high without the drugs.Maybe even very spicy food can help as most of the thais i know seem to have a fix with pet,pet pet food.

good luck in your efforts,as there will be a possibility you will have to go back to the states to sort this big problem out.

[Ulysses G.]

My daughter who is 40 and lives in Oregon has a drug problem with amphetamines. She has been using for about 10 years now and has become very paranoid.

Drugs are something I know little about and don’t know what approach to take in helping her. I’m afraid that sending money will just go toward more drugs, and make matters worse. She is living in a welfare apartment building and says it is full of mentally ill grown men. She also says she has been sexually abused and needs to move out of the apartment.

Says she is emotionally tattered and not sure of her mental state.

She has asked for my help which I am more than willing to give. But in doing so I don’t want to make matters worse.

Any suggestions on how to best give her assistance?

Advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Haven’t beentheredonethat.

I did a lot of Meth in my younger days, but your daughter sounds a real mess. However, speed is not a physical addiction, so that is one blessing.

DON'T GIVE HER ANY MONEY! She is going to buy crank. That is probably what she is really looking for.

DO NOT BRING HER TO THAILAND! The speed here is much better and much, much cheaper and the heroin is great too. There would be no reason to quit here.

The biggest problem I had when I quit the stuff, is that you never feel happy in comparison to the euphoria of the drug. It takes forever to start feeling happy naturally again.

Some posters suggested exercise and that might help detox the body faster and provide natuaral endorphins to replace the euphoria of the drug.

All I can think of is rehab, but that only works if you really want to get off. I moved away from my drug-freak friends, but I could have easly found new connections if I hadn't sincerely wanted to stop.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

way2muchcoffee I have PMed you. Thanks

Geriatrickid...Thanks for the thoughts, they are appreciated.

We recognise it is a very difficult time for her and also realize that without treatment it will not get any better. I think the most difficult hurdle is getting her to agree to being treated.

Grantbkk, bigfatpig and hanibal 7 thank you all for your inputs.

[Macx]

Sorry to hear about your daughter's problem.

My uncle was a heroine addict. It took several fortunes and 5 years to get him off it. In the end, the only thing that worked was hiring a personal coach/guardian who basically lived with him 24/7 for nearly a year.

Perhaps, your best bet is bring her here, putting her into a serious program, and then have her live with/near you and hire a Thai guardian to be with her 24/7. It's more affordable here than in the states. You can get a proctor/assistant through the hospital for anywhere from 10-20k baht/month.

Best wishes. My heart goes out to you and yours.

[hanibal7]

as one poster said,speed is not a physical addiction but she will feel very unhappy and will want to feel the way speed kicks in.My feelings is that she is on other drugs too.take her to cham am and take care of her 24/7.you will find out then if its just speed,which shouldnt be too hard to get her off it.

[LivinLOS]

Being in N.America I suspect its meth amphet not 'just' amphet.. Meth is IMO a whole lot worse..

I would say with any addiction a total change of scenery and change of associates and social scene is required. Yes its possible she may continue to seek out drugs in a new environment but in her current one drugs will seek out her. Also while yaba is readily available here the culture shock, the totally different environment might well give her other avenues to be interested in things. One downside is I think many expats have large amounts of time on thier hands and its not uncommon for people to fill that time with intoxicants (alcohol being the primary oe for expats I suspect). Being busy is essential in that situation.

To change within her current environment would need a lot of support.. I dont know the details but after many years theres also going to be lots of chemical inbalances, mental and emotional baggage to also deal with.

Good luck.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

livinLOS

Yes you are right it is meth amphet that she is using. The drug has really screwed her up mentally and it makes it very difficult to communicate with her. Before she got onto the drug she was a vibrant beautiful young lady who had everything going for her. The change in her is very depressing for all of us.

Hopefully we will be able to talk her into going into a treatment program.

Thanks

BTDT

[Ulysses G.]

Being in N.America I suspect its meth amphet not 'just' amphet.. Meth is IMO a whole lot worse..

"Ice" is available in the Kingdom, and is supposedly a much stronger version of Meth-Amphetamine. Strong stuff.

I'm afraid that bringing her to rehab here might be just setting her up with amazing drug connections for all kinds of cheap drugs all over the country, with other patients who don't really intend to quit. It is something to think about.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[ilyushin]

Try a look at these as a start.

Oregon Rehab

To get a user off a substance is a case-by-case issue.

Also, you should educate yourself about the drug(s) and treatments available so that when you dicuss the addiction all your advice and support are spot on getting her to improve.

Family plays a big part of recovery as friends are usually on the crap too. Thailand offers many rehab units that will certainly bring her around. You may have a chance to get her around people who will open her eyes to a new high on life.

Hope this helps.

Edited May 10, 2008 by ilyushin

[burman]

I notice a couple of people have mentioned about not bringing her to Thailand and I just wanted to mention a friend of mine. He was a heroin user in the UK, and come to Thailand to give it up. He did this (several years ago) and now lives a very nice life here and has made a real success of himself.

Part of the reason was that he saw a new way of life over here, not experienced in his up bringing in the UK which changed his way of thinking. Another reason was that the people he met here were not heroin users whereas at home most of his friends were. I think the third and most significant reason was heroin was not so easily available here as it was in his hometown in Northern England.

A more recent story is from a friend who has been using crack/heroin regularly in the UK for the last couple of years. He visited Thailand and Laos for 4 months this year and stayed away from drug use. He's hoping to come out here again in 6 months and live in Laos for a year which I know will be a major change in his life for the better. I got an email from him the other day, as soon as he got back to London, within an hour or so of putting his bags down and seeing a friend drugs were put on the table for him and he was using cocaine again. It's quite a contrast from when he visits me here and instead of hard drugs gets some beers and a few plates of good food.

I was into drugs in the UK myself before I moved here, and should I have stayed in London and never visited Thailand there is a good chance I too now would have been using crack at some point.

My point is quite obvious, that although Thailand is a country with significant drug problems it's not nearly as available as it in in many big cities in the west, especially if all your friends are into the same scene.

So just wanted to give another side to the story regarding drug users coming to Thailand. Make of it what you will, and good luck!

Edited May 10, 2008 by burman

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Just wanted to say that I have really enjoyed TV and spent most of my time reading post and participating in various challenges.

But I am truly amazed at the amount of responses and advice I have received today from this thread, not only in posts but in PM's it is really rather heartwarming to know that there are so many caring people on TV willing to take time to share experiences and provide very valuable information and advice.

To all of you Thank You seems like an inadequate rsponse but I am at a loss for words so I guess I will have to settle for THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[GuestHouse]

Sorry to hear the problems you and your family are facing.

I think I'd seperate two issues. Drug use and Physical Safety.

The drug use is something that clearly needs a long term solution and, as others have said, professional assistance.

The phisical safety issue is a bit easier to deal with, if as you suggest it relates to her accommodation. I'd consider a trip back to help your daughter move home to sort out the safety problems and perhaps start a face to face discussion on how to start dealing with the drug thing.

Certainly I don't see that you can give much help from Thailand.

[mrtoad]

As it has been mentioned by several posters, it is important that she is put into touch with the correct services in the states. The biggest problem to overcome, is actually accepting that she has a substance abuse problem. It appears that she may realsie this, considering that she has asked for help. It is now very important to find the suitable programme for her, and hopefully she will engage properly with the service to deal with her addiction.

Whilst, I agree that Thailand has plenty of drugs available, it is no different that N.America or the UK, and part of her ongoing battle to beat the adiction will be remaining strong enough to resist the temptation to use again.

It will certainly be a long and challenging path to deal with this, both for her, her family and her friends. She will need the support of her family and "genuine" friends more than ever. I don't think it would be irresponsible to bring her to Thailand, if you can find the right support and rehab service for her. I can remeber a similar situation with one of my clients on my caseload a few years ago who was a serial amphet abuser, this compunded his Mental Health problems to such a point, that it was no longer possible to manage him safely in the community. Initally a detox programme (Section 3 MHA), followed by a guardianship (Section7 MHA), which meant that we moved him out of his local area and away from some of the more negative elements of his original community. His family were fully supportive of this, and I know for a fact that he is now doing very well because of it. Maybe you should look at a good detox programme in the USA, followed by some time away from her City spent with supportive family, it may just give her the opportunity to reasses her lifestyle and set a new path.

I wish you the very best of luck.

p..s The sections are irrelevant to this case, just trying to give an example of how sometimes changing someones living environment can have a positive outcome..

[Sheryl]

The posters who recommend an inpatient program are 100% correct. That is the only way to go. Don't send her any money, but do pay for her treatment in a program. In addition to getting her of drugs, this will resolve the residence problem. She'll need to be an inpatient for at least 30 days and quite possibly longer. Many of these programs can arrange "halfway"houses to live in afterwards, as they get lots of people who like your daughter don't have a suitable environment to go back to.

It will take a year at least off drugs before her mind is fully cleared of the effects of the chemicals and at least that long in therapy to help her face and deal with the various psychological issues that kled to the addiction and that will have resuklted from all that happened in its wake.

If cost is a constraint -- I have no idea what sort of low cost residential programs are available in the States -- there is an excellent residential program in Cebu, Philippines called Recovery House that is very affordable. Did wonders for my nephew, and it's all in English.

Good luck.

[smileah]

You're right - sending her money will not help. Can you fly out there and physically put her in rehab? If you can't make it there, do you know someone who can do this for you?

If she actually admits she needs help, then now is the time to act.

She NEEDS to be in a rehab facility. Even if you lived down the road from her - she needs this type of intervention. I wish you many blessings, and hope that you can manage to help her.

Look up Rehab facilities near her place on google.

Best of luck.

[insideleft]

The crux of this kind of issue is often with the degree of determination the individual has.

Plenty of people in plenty of countries are getting out of dependency mired lifestyles everyday for free.

By all means, go and pay professionals, but at the same time, find out what kind of help you and your family can get from the anonymous 12 Step programs...Narcotics Anonymous for the user...Naranon for families and loved one's of users...

The 12 Step approach doesn't work for many people when all those who go to these meetings is taken into accountl, but many thousands try every year, many thousands, and only perhaps 3-7% stay sober or clean, however, while 6% may not be much, it is still quite a few people...and all it costs is time and energy...

Most professionals cannot be afforded for the daily support most user's need...the anonymous programs support users while the learn different approaches to life...

Critics cite these programs as 'dogmatic' and 'cultish' with no evidence to support their effectiveness...I do hope none of those same critics are religious...

The drug using lifestyle is dogmatic and cultish also...I'd say that breaking the addictive lifestyle and approach to one's experiences is the initial focus...not narrow western views of evidence...dogmatism or cultish approaches...

In fact, if you want evidence, go to an AA or NA meeting and count how many people in the meeting are stoned or drunk that day...

Good luck...

[Sheryl]

There are non-profit 12 step residential rehab programs. For sure, only look at non-profit programs. Most of these will be 12 step based.

Not all in-patient rehab is aimed at the high end/celebrity market, altho that's what one hears the most about.

In this particular case, with a very unsafe living situation, so many years of meth abuse that neurological recovery even if complete will take very long and she can't possibly address her immediate safety needs now -- residential rehab is essential. AFTER that, and once in a safe living situation, NA could indeed be a great resource.

Another plus, which I can attest to from my own experience is the tremendous relief it is to a worried family member to have a break from anxiety over the user's welfare. At least for a few months, you know where they are and that they are safe. That alone can be worth the cost.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Just thought I should post an update on what is happening.

Sent her an e-mail offering to make all the arrangements, pay any and all cost envolved and to take care of all the details for her. Told her I would fly there and take care of it. Told her I loved her and would do everything I could to help her.

Her response was "Dad it is very sad that all you see in me is a drug addict, I'm much more than that." And she has not responded to my e-mails since then, even though they do not even mention drugs.

I think I misinterpeted her request for help, I think rather than rehab help she just wanted me to send her money. I will send her things she needs or pay for things for her but I will not send her money as I feel she will just indulge her habit with it.

I don't believe I can fly back there and physically make her go into treatment. I don't think the facilities will take them unless it is voluntarily. Also she would resent the treatment and I think the results would be very short lived. In my opinion she has acknowledge she has a problem and want to be cured for any type of cure to help.

So for right now there is not a whole lot that I can do other than send her occasional emails telling her we love her and am here for her. It is very aparent that over the years the drugs have screwed up her mind as she is extremely paranoid of most everyone and everything now. This I believe is part of the problem in getting her to volunteer for treatment.

Can't tell you how sad it is to see someone you love get so screwed up and their life essentially ruined. Feel rather hopeless about it as I don't see anything we can do to significantly improve it. We will keep trying and with luck and perserverance we may get her to change her thinking.

BTDT

That pretty much brings things up to date. Do want to thank everyone for their inputs and support in this, it means a lot and we thank you for it.

[Sheryl]

You are 100% correct -- there is nothing you can do for her until and unless she is willing to admit she has a problem and seek help.

I know first hand just how wretching an experience this is. You have my hearfelt sympathy.

While you cannot help her until such a time as she is ready/willing, there are resources available to help you deal with the heartbreak of this situation if you want them.

Al-anon is specifically for families of alcoholics but families of drug users can and do benefit and are welcome, and they have meetings and contact people in Thailand -- see pinned notice in the "Ï drink too much"sub-forum.

Nar-anon is specific to families of drug users but AFAIK they don't have a branch in Thailand. Website is http://nar-anon.org/index.html

I don't think it much matters between nar-anon and al-anon as the dilemma and issues for family members are pretty much the same.

Both have online programs for people who don't leave near a meeting. They also have some great literaure, very practical and written by people who have lived it.

All the best and so sorry fore what you are going through.