Death In Thailand Question

[Jingthing]

Let's say you die in Thailand. It happens.

So let's also say you have named people as your beneficiary on non-Thai accounts, such as retirement accounts or brokerage accounts. In the US at least, this can be done without a US will, you just name who you want your money to go to after death. They can claim it by sending in an original certified copy of your death certificate.

How could this be handled for a Thai death? Would the beneficiary need to come to Thailand and deal directly with the Thai authorities and/or embassy to obtain the certificate? Do Thais issue multiple certified copies of death certificates as is done in the US? Could they hire a Thai attorney remotely to pursue the certificates without having to travel to Thailand or might the embassies offer this service for people as routine business?

Edited May 25, 2008 by Jingthing

[GuestHouse]

Your embassy/consulate will issue a death certificate... though of course not to the person who is dead.

Understanding that this needs to be done and instructions on how to go about getting the certificate ought to be in the written instructions to the executor of your will.

[Jingthing]

Thanks, Guest.

Maybe I need to state the question again though.

Assets OUTSIDE Thailand.

Assets left to a person OUTSIDE Thailand by naming the person as such on the accounts(standard in the US for brokerage and retirement accounts).

No will OUTSIDE Thailand.

Dealing with this with a Thai will wouldn't make sense; Thai wills are only for Thailand assets.

All the businesses need is an officially issued death certificate (not a copy) to release the money.

So if the expat dies in Thailand, the US person will need multiple copies of DEATH CERTIFICATES from Thailand.

So Guesthouse says the embassy does this. Would they mail them or would the "lucky" heir have to drag their ass to Thailand to sort it out?

Edited May 25, 2008 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

Even if we are young, we could die in Thailand tomorrow. Those of us who are staying indefinitely (years or more) need to have a partner (spouse, lover, business associate) or close friend already designated to do these unpleasant tasks after our death. My boyfriend knows to go to the embassy/consulate here, get death certificates, notify friends and family, take care of my remains, etc. I suspect that one of my oldest children and my best friend will fly out here just to verify my death, but now that I think of it, they should accept a death certificate from the embassy.

An acquaintance (who posted a lot on TVisa) died suddenly and our evidence that he died is second-hand. But his posts indicate that his lover was well trained in how to handle the poster's death.

[higgy88]

The US Consulate [Chiangmai] will issue 20 originals, with the raised seal, of the form DS-2060 titled Report of the Death of an American Citizen Abroad. They are issued to the next of kin, and are accepted as the official death certificate. If the next of kin was not the one who informed them of the death, it is the US gov't responsibility to find and notify the next of kin. The consulate also notifies various other gov't agencies such as the SSA, VA, the state that has the birth records, and whoever else. If they can't find and notify the next of kin, I really don't know what would happen then but I am sure there are official procedures which the US gov't officials will follow.

[PeaceBlondie]

So, what if somebody leaves no family? Precisely that happened to our old friend in Hua Hin (who lived many years in Chiang Mai), the late Robert LeGrand, who died in HHin over the weekend, at the age of 80. He had a Thai will and executrix, and a close friend who are taking care of his assets. I do not even know his nickname on ThaiVisa so that we can 'retire' him as RIP.

Robert, like cm-happy, was an older, gay American. Unlike cm-happy, Robert outlived both of his long-term adult partners. He left behind two Chihuahua dogs, one of which was crippled and incontinent, but they are spoken for, and will be cared for.

We die. Slowly or quickly, we shuffle or hurtle off 'this mortal coil.' Be prepared, and help your loved ones to be ready for the inevitable.

[GuestHouse]

I think regardless of the 'rules' under which the companies holding your assets act it would still be a good idea to make will to ensure that a single and legally binding piece of paper states your wishes and thereby ensures that no 'company rule' of which you are not aware trips your beneficiaries up when they go to claim what you are leaving to them. (An exception to this is where assets are held in trust and where placing them in your will could risk death duties - get legal advice on that).

Going on from what Peaceblondie says, I think it is also a very good idea to appoint an executor who can deal with these issues and your will.

And finally, also going on from what PB says, you should not assume that you will simply die - you may suffer an illness/accident that leaves you non compos mentis, in which case a 'living will' can ensure that those who care for you have access to the funds to do so.

--

Having acted as an executor for a foreigner's wills in Thailand and the UK I'd add that it is essential to select a competent executor, the hurdles this task includes would very easily trip someone who is not able to 'battle' bureaucracy. I certainly feel that a Thai would face particular problems when dealing with 'the big guy in the big office' as arises when clearing paperwork with banks, insurance companies and pension funds.

[Jingthing]

Thanks for some excellent information.

I was talking about non-Thai assets to a non-Thai beneficiary, which the complication of the dead person dying in Thailand.

[bino]

A good friend of mine (american) dropped dead in Phuket a few years ago, and I acted as the Thailand executor for his daughter in North Carolina.

I'm not sure about non-thai assets, but the US embassy was extremely helpful. They issued a death certificate and a power of attorney document in my name (based on his daughter's insructions) that allowed me to walk into his bank, effect a transfer to his daughter's account as a last transaction and close his Thai bank accounts. The same documents allowed me to claim his body from the morgue for the funeral, cancel his cellphone, terminate his lease, etc. etc.

I delivered his ashes and personal belongings to the embassy. They sent them along with the death certificate and all of the other related documentation to his daughter in the US via Airforce Post Office (APO) service. So- I don't think she had any problem contending with the non-thai assets considering that she had a genuine death certificate from the US embassy in Thailand.

The embassy would have done all of the Thai aspects on her behalf, but would have charged her considerable fees for the employee's time, courier service, transportation, etc. I was here and willing to do it, so she saved some $$.

Edited May 27, 2008 by bino

[Jingthing]

Just to confirm, you CAN get MULTIPLE official copies of death certificates, correct? Because each institution requires an official document, not just a copy machine version of ONE original.

[higgy88]

Death of US Citizen Abroad

The U.S. consular officer will send the family up to 20 certified copies of the Report of Death at the time the initial report is issued. These are provided at no fee.

Jingthing, if and/or when you ever go through this, you will find that the actual location of where a person dies is of minor importance. The only difference is that if he/she dies in another country then the papers you will need will come from the consulate, and as Bino said they are very helpful.

[Sheryl]

Death of US Citizen Abroad

The U.S. consular officer will send the family up to 20 certified copies of the Report of Death at the time the initial report is issued. These are provided at no fee.

What concerns me, both from this thread and another one currentregarding what happens to the body, is the part about "the family" or "next of kin". I'm not totally sure who the Embassy would consider to be the next-of-kin for someone without spouse or children but in my case any likely definition will still led to someone who is mentally unfit to handle the matter. (Alzheimers...schizophrenia...alcoholism...etc.) I have a will with a designated executior and had always assumed that my executor would be able to make all necessary decisions, get the death certificate, arrange about cremation etc.

Is this not the case? Will my whacked out family nonetheless be brought into this by Embassy policy? I hope not, as my affairs might never get sorted out, and while they don't qualify as legal next iof kin, I do have dependents I'm concerned about....

Advice?

[higgy88]

Sheryl,

I'm definitely not an expert on this subject and have just related my own personal experiences, but I really don't think you have anything to worry about. In general this is the way I saw it. The people at the Thai hospital and at the US Consulate were mainly concerned with making sure that their asses were covered, so that no one could come back later and say they should have done it this way or not have done it that way. If you have already made a will and have specified exactly who you want to do what, then everyone is covered and knows what to do and the process can go forward, following the standard procedures of course. I think Guesthouse made a very good point about having a will, and Bino had a good description about the process. If you haven't made a will, then what to do is put on the consulate's lap. They really do not want to make any decisions about what to do with you, but would much rather find someone who can and will make these decisions as soon as possible, and this is is simply described as the family and/or next of kin. One other point I want to make is that the consulate definitely wants to be notified when a citizen dies. This is not a request but is more of a demand, and the best way that they can make sure that they are notified is by not letting anyone do anything until they are.

So if you have already made your will then I think you have nothing to worry about. Of course I am sure your whacked out family is still going to be notified of your demise when it happens, but I don't think you have to worry about them getting involved. So don't worry and enjoy yourself now while you're still here. For those who haven't made a will yet, doing so now will make it much easier for everyone involved when your time comes.