Security Tightens At Government House To Block Anti-govt Protesters

[^_^]

Well, the death of a PAD member is certainly a win for Sondhi and now that he smells blood, I'm sure he wants more to die. Well, at least he can sell more newspapers!

It doesn't make you any better than the PAD/Sonthi by making use of someone's death to slander the PAD/Sonthi.

Your post sounds like cheering the death of someone just to prove your point!

You disgust me.

Edited July 25, 2008 by ^_^

[Nampeung]

I will now leave this open to the forum members to discuss, without being bullied by you Sunrise, 'We' anticipated' ... who are you talking for ?

[jumnien]

)-->

QUOTE ( @ 2008-07-25 07:38:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the death of a PAD member is certainly a win for Sondhi and now that he smells blood, I'm sure he wants more to die. Well, at least he can sell more newspapers!

It doesn't make you any better than the PAD/Sonthi by making use of someone's death to slander the PAD/Sonthi.

Your post sounds like cheering the death of someone just to prove your point!

You disgust me.

In comparison, I hold nothing but love and compassion and kindness towards you. I welcome your opinion, though it may be different than mine. I am far from cheering the death of anyone. I just acknowledge that at PAD headquarters, when the cameras are not on, which is, admittedly, infrequently, there is a great bloodthirst growing. There is much political gain by the PAD for getting their protesters killed. And yes, I think that is disgusting.

I welcome your response. Feel free to express yourself in this open forum!

[^_^]

In comparison, I hold nothing but love and compassion and kindness towards you. I welcome your opinion, though it may be different than mine. I am far from cheering the death of anyone. I just acknowledge that at PAD headquarters, when the cameras are not on, which is, admittedly, infrequently, there is a great bloodthirst growing. There is much political gain by the PAD for getting their protesters killed. And yes, I think that is disgusting.

I welcome your response. Feel free to express yourself in this open forum!

Well...sounds nice and all.

But...I would still give you a tight slap if you have offer me your other cheek.

Hypocrite at it's best.

[Nampeung]

Sunrise07 you really need some lessons on what sells newspapers !!! I too am open to discussion so chat away and I will respond

[jumnien]

)-->

QUOTE ( @ 2008-07-25 07:49:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In comparison, I hold nothing but love and compassion and kindness towards you. I welcome your opinion, though it may be different than mine. I am far from cheering the death of anyone. I just acknowledge that at PAD headquarters, when the cameras are not on, which is, admittedly, infrequently, there is a great bloodthirst growing. There is much political gain by the PAD for getting their protesters killed. And yes, I think that is disgusting.

I welcome your response. Feel free to express yourself in this open forum!

Well...sounds nice and all.

But...I would still give you a tight slap if you have offer me your other cheek.

Hypocrite at it's best.

As a non-violent pacifist, have the other cheek!

May all beings be happy!

[Nampeung]

So it's nearly 8am in BKK and which one of you is going to give this forum a decent update on what exactly is happening on the ground??? Not many budding reporters on Thai Visa chai mai?

[Plus]

Back to 1976.

The government cheers the lynching mobs via all available media, thugs indicted for inciting violence only a year ago are given government sponsored program on state TV channel.

And self-proclaimed democracy loving pacifists blame the victims for state supported violence.

Younghusband, why did you ask about Nazi lyrics? I won't put it past you that you think PAD are fascists here.

[Nampeung]

Sunrise has not even the nerve to answer me S*** that must be kind of bad in one way or another

[Nampeung]

Sorry Plus we must have posted on top of each other !!!

[Nampeung]

That t*** Sunrise07 has decided that he can't compete which is brilliant indeed.

[younghusband]

Back to 1976.

The government cheers the lynching mobs via all available media, thugs indicted for inciting violence only a year ago are given government sponsored program on state TV channel.

And self-proclaimed democracy loving pacifists blame the victims for state supported violence.

Younghusband, why did you ask about Nazi lyrics? I won't put it past you that you think PAD are fascists here.

First of all I'm very sorry there has been loss of life.

Horst Wessell was a young German Nazi who was killed in street violence between the fascists and communists, and subsequently used as a matyr by the Nazis for their political propaganda.I didn't have the Nazi parallel in mind -though there are distinct fascist aspects to PAD- so much as the concept of provoking violence to achieve an agenda.Even in the last few hours one can see examples on this forum of the more boneheaded PAD apologists trying to use this tragedy to trash their enemies.

Frankly over the last couple of months the PAD has become widely discredited by the more thoughtful commentators, though the debate isn't really reflected on this forum.Chang Noi for example, well before this latest incident, noted that "PAD is flirting with the old agent provocateur's technique of placing its own crudely armed gangs in places where they will be attacked by enemies.This creates violent incidents, apparantly initiated by their opponents, though in truth a result of the inherent violence of PAD itself."

[Nampeung]

Well Sunrise would you mind explaining what's happening in BKK right now ???

Edited July 25, 2008 by Nampeung

[Siripon]

Back to 1976.

The government cheers the lynching mobs via all available media, thugs indicted for inciting violence only a year ago are given government sponsored program on state TV channel.

And self-proclaimed democracy loving pacifists blame the victims for state supported violence.

Younghusband, why did you ask about Nazi lyrics? I won't put it past you that you think PAD are fascists here.

First of all I'm very sorry there has been loss of life.

Horst Wessell was a young German Nazi who was killed in street violence between the fascists and communists, and subsequently used as a matyr by the Nazis for their political propaganda.I didn't have the Nazi parallel in mind -though there are distinct fascist aspects to PAD- so much as the concept of provoking violence to achieve an agenda.Even in the last few hours one can see examples on this forum of the more boneheaded PAD apologists trying to use this tragedy to trash their enemies.

Frankly over the last couple of months the PAD has become widely discredited by the more thoughtful commentators, though the debate isn't really reflected on this forum.Chang Noi for example, well before this latest incident, noted that "PAD is flirting with the old agent provocateur's technique of placing its own crudely armed gangs in places where they will be attacked by enemies.This creates violent incidents, apparantly initiated by their opponents, though in truth a result of the inherent violence of PAD itself."

The inherent violence of Thaksin's running dogs was clearly exposed on Thai television this morning where the pick-ups filled with thugs armed with sticks and knives were shown arriving at the park in Udon to attack the PAD. The cowardly morons, attacking lone Pad supporters like a pack of dogs shows the base mentality of Thaksin's supporters.

The police inaction was inexcusable as was Utai's , the brother of Deputy Agriculture Minister Theerachai incitement to kill the PAD supporters. The female leader of the 'Love Udon' group tried to justify the attacks saying the PAD had blocked the park entrance but she had no answer to the journalists' questions about the use of force.

The PAd is not discredited by 'thoughtful' commentators ,in my view, everyone knows Sonthi frequently goes over the top but his basic fear that Thaksin will do anything, anything at all to avoid the courts is widely held by many intelligent Thais and justifies his constant vigilance.

[younghusband]

Back to 1976.

The government cheers the lynching mobs via all available media, thugs indicted for inciting violence only a year ago are given government sponsored program on state TV channel.

And self-proclaimed democracy loving pacifists blame the victims for state supported violence.

Younghusband, why did you ask about Nazi lyrics? I won't put it past you that you think PAD are fascists here.

First of all I'm very sorry there has been loss of life.

Horst Wessell was a young German Nazi who was killed in street violence between the fascists and communists, and subsequently used as a matyr by the Nazis for their political propaganda.I didn't have the Nazi parallel in mind -though there are distinct fascist aspects to PAD- so much as the concept of provoking violence to achieve an agenda.Even in the last few hours one can see examples on this forum of the more boneheaded PAD apologists trying to use this tragedy to trash their enemies.

Frankly over the last couple of months the PAD has become widely discredited by the more thoughtful commentators, though the debate isn't really reflected on this forum.Chang Noi for example, well before this latest incident, noted that "PAD is flirting with the old agent provocateur's technique of placing its own crudely armed gangs in places where they will be attacked by enemies.This creates violent incidents, apparantly initiated by their opponents, though in truth a result of the inherent violence of PAD itself."

The inherent violence of Thaksin's running dogs was clearly exposed on Thai television this morning where the pick-ups filled with thugs armed with sticks and knives were shown arriving at the park in Udon to attack the PAD. The cowardly morons, attacking lone Pad supporters like a pack of dogs shows the base mentality of Thaksin's supporters.

The police inaction was inexcusable as was Utai's , the brother of Deputy Agriculture Minister Theerachai incitement to kill the PAD supporters. The female leader of the 'Love Udon' group tried to justify the attacks saying the PAD had blocked the park entrance but she had no answer to the journalists' questions about the use of force.

The PAd is not discredited by 'thoughtful' commentators ,in my view, everyone knows Sonthi frequently goes over the top but his basic fear that Thaksin will do anything, anything at all to avoid the courts is widely held by many intelligent Thais and justifies his constant vigilance.

The language used - running dogs, cowardly morons,pack of dogs etc rather illustrates my point how the political debate has been debased and is indeed very reminiscent of totalitarian invective, whether fascist or communist.I do however agree that it's all about Thaksin, and here the discussion does indeed become inevitably complex.In the short term it's certainly the main PAD aim to ensure Thaksin faces up to the charges but equally since the country at a general election would almost certainly back the party supporting him, the longer term aim is to subvert democracy.Underlying all this is the massive gap between the rich and the poor in this country, and the determination of the ruling elite to maintain this gaping division.Even a nodding aquaintance with history would make one aware that this was an issue faced across the developed world more than a century ago.In Thailand it's happening now.

[Siripon]

If you watch footage of the events in Udon you will understand why I use strong language, regarding debates, isn't that what Thaksin always tries to avoid?

[Los78]

If you watch footage of the events in Udon you will understand why I use strong language, regarding debates, isn't that what Thaksin always tries to avoid?

It was just a matter of time until PAD caused problems with the wrong people for something like this too happen. Sorry that it resulted in a loss of life. However they decided to cause the problems for the locals in Udon. Its not like PAD are innocent of doing nothing and just doing good in that community. I dont think they were doing just a peaceful protest there either to cause a violent confrontation but there is more to the story. Their are two sides to every story. Remember that. In this case local issues played a part resulting in a casualty.

Edited July 25, 2008 by Los78

[Plus]

Here comes justification for vandalism and murder in the name of "democracy" because PAD are fascist provocateurs.

"they decided to cause the problems for the locals in Udon" huh? Blocked the park entrance?

What we've seen is the complete breakdown of law and order. Police doing nothing and just watching. Bloodied man lying on the ground right in front of them and they are not even trying to help him.

What we see is pathetic excuses for the violence from "democracy" lovers.

[Los78]

Here comes justification for vandalism and murder in the name of "democracy" because PAD are fascist provocateurs.

"they decided to cause the problems for the locals in Udon" huh? Blocked the park entrance?

What we've seen is the complete breakdown of law and order. Police doing nothing and just watching. Bloodied man lying on the ground right in front of them and they are not even trying to help him.

What we see is pathetic excuses for the violence from "democracy" lovers.

Again sorry about the loss of life. As to the police not doing anything well I am sure that is not the case. Were you there Plus? I think you can't just put out accusations like that. In any case I would fight for freedom and democracy then be live under a dictatorship. Yes I am a democracy lover.

[hammered]

Frankly I am quite amazed to see people on here who probably claim to be eductaed blame the death of a peaceful protestor on the group protesting peacefully in Udon. The mob that attacked the protestors was organised and armed. The person inflicting the blow should be charged with at least manslaughter and the organiser who is part of an influential family in Udon should also be charged with Incitement. This level of brutality is not acceptable whatever one thinks of the politics of the guy murdered.

Sadly this is a reflection of the patronage system that the PPP and TRT relies on (and the part of the system that Jakrapob and his ilk benfit directly from) in the rural areas to intimidate anyone who is actaully willing to voice a differing opinion, and to suppress any flow of information that may counter their own propoganda. It is neither new nor unexpected and anyone who has ever tried to organize anything anti to what Thaksin wanted in these areas will know only too well this was waiting to happen long before the PAD was ever set up. Never forget that most of rural Thailand is controlled by a strong and unrelinquishing feudal patronage system that ensures a single line of thought and respect for those that control the places with the threat of instant retribution to any who will not obey their masters never far away. TRT and PPP far from trying to do away with this system have just taken it in. Those who have tried to stand up to mill owners or who have stood up to unwanted projects or refused to sell parcels of land all know the violence one risks by standing up against anything very well.

My condolences to the family of the murdered man and may justice actually work here although I doubt it. In the meantime I am disgusted at suggestions that he somehow brought it upon himself or deserved it and as when suggestions were made that the TRT resembled nazis I am utterly amazed that such an ridiculous assertions are made this time against the PAD. A man has been murdered by an armed mob organised by the local powerful family. It is as simple as that. Now the police should make arrests and this should move to the courts. With Thailand so divided an example and astrong one needs to be made. In the meantime I think it is better not to read some of the comments posted on here that quite frankly show a lack of humanity without getting into a complete willingness to excuse extreme acts to just cheerlead a government that has done absolutely nothing to try and heal social and political rifts, which when elected many hoped it would.

I do understand that as the word of what the torpedo said percolate around the country that the PPP and especially their rural warlords have to provide distraction and remind the locals exactly who tells them what to do but organising armed violence is a step too far and should be roundly condemned by all.

Many on here talk of democracy. I would just like to remind everyone that freedom to protest peacefully is a basic democratic right and that right should be defended for even those we dont agree with or there is no democracy. It is the states duty to provide protection to demonstrators not to stand aside and allow the armed gangs of local influential people to smash them. In its own way what happened in Udon Thani was a direct attack on democracy and probably the constitution by a group connected to the government. That is a sobering thought for anyone who really cares for democratic principles but one not surprising in Thailand sadly.

[Plus]

Just watch the video.

In the Thai blog Sopon writes that police numbers where about the same as "Love Udon" lynch mob members.

We don't have a video of what the police were doing during the rampage but we can cleary see that they didn't stop it and we see that they didn't help injured man on the grass.

[Meerkat]

A despicable episode. Surely it's time for the police to use stronger measures than just barricades which we know are totally ineffective (and in fact can do more damage in the hands of a concerted mob). Water cannon, tear gas - maybe they should take some lessons from their South Korean brethren as they're doing a piss-poor job of protecting people at the moment.

[hammered]

The worse all this gets and it will involve blame and counter blame and higher tension and more attacks and god knows what else, the more I think the only answer if anyone really wants to have social cohesion is for a government of national unity to be drawn from the exisitng parliamentray members. They could then in a hopefully rational manner deal with each of the issues. If the politicians cannot come together to do what is best for the country what hope is there? A descent into anarchy and politcally cleansed areas is not going to be good for the country in the medium to longer term.

Failing this is the only thing that will unite the country going to be a real shooting war with Cambodia? Lets hope nobody in power is mulling this one over.

[Plus]

The problem is not only with police - they are powerless in places like Udon, the problem is with government inciting the mobs itself.

Siripon mentioned the bother of government minister's incitement to kill on this particular occasion and Samak just launched a TV program aimed specifically at destroying PAD.

He WILL face responsibility for what has happened, I just dare not predict in what form.

[hammered]

Pro-government activist admits on TV he led protests to beat up PAD protesters in Udon Thani

Kwanchai Praiphana, leader of the Udon Thani Guard Group, admitted during an interview on Channel 3 that he let his supporters to beat up protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Kwanchai vowed to lead his supporters to beat PAD protesters again if they hold another rally in the northeastern province.

On Thursday, Kwanchai led hundreds of protesters demolish PAD's stage and beat up PAD protesters, seriously injuring two of them.

Kwanchai said he had warned local PAD supporters several times not to organise a rally in the province, because he regarded that anti-government rallies damaged the province's reputation.

"Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges," Kwanchai said.

"I've warned them several times that they must not come here."

I wonder if this guy can be charged for breach of constitution. Arent there some articles relating to trying to destroy democracy? Could denying the right to protest come under this?

More seriously this guy seems like the typical upcountry enforceer of some powerful family that runs around with more or less total immuntiy from anything and whom everyone is scared of.

A good question would be how much of democracy actuallty remains in Thailand? Freedom of the media is going. Freedom to assemble is going. The rule of law is being laughed at. Any check and balance mechanism is trying to be removed. And all of this is by an elected government. Truly amazing Thailand.

[^_^]

All from the News today.

TPBS did a phone interview with one of the police chief this afternoon regarding the mob clash in Udon Thani.

The Police Chief clarified that they did not react to try to stop the attacking mob because they weren't armed and furthermore out-numbered; hence they just watched.

(they weren't allowed to be armed because it might provoke even more serious consequences if used inappropriately)

ASTV shown a footage where the leader of the attacking mob (the elder brother of an PPP MP) shouting instructions through a microphone on top of a pickup truck ordering his mob to attack the PADs. Could be heard clearly on the video footage that the order was "go after him", "Kill him", "he's getting away...go after him...", etc. The reporter added that the mob leader also openly announced over his microphone that "get 500 baht per injury imposed on the PADs" & "get 20,000 baht if killed a PAD leader/guard".

(I wonder how could this mob leader still walking the street...no arrest warrant...nothing)

TPBS shown a footage where Suthep Thepsuban was interviewed by a group of reporter this morning. Suthep said that he has received information that an amount of 30 Million Baht was paid to see to it that the mob clashes. Suthep also said that Charlerm made a phone call to show his support for the attacking mob in Udon Thani after the clash is inappropriate and should resign.

[hammered]

Some sources including the governor of Udon are saying nobody was killed, which if confirmed is good news indeed although it is probably only a matter of time.

[hammered]

)-->

QUOTE ( @ 2008-07-25 13:27:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All from the News today.

TPBS did a phone interview with one of the police chief this afternoon regarding the mob clash in Udon Thani.

The Police Chief clarified that they did not react to try to stop the attacking mob because they weren't armed and furthermore out-numbered; hence they just watched.

(they weren't allowed to be armed because it might provoke even more serious consequences if used inappropriately)

ASTV shown a footage where the leader of the attacking mob (the elder brother of an PPP MP) shouting instructions through a microphone on top of a pickup truck ordering his mob to attack the PADs. Could be heard clearly on the video footage that the order was "go after him", "Kill him", "he's getting away...go after him...", etc. The reporter added that the mob leader also openly announced over his microphone that "get 500 baht per injury imposed on the PADs" & "get 20,000 baht if killed a PAD leader/guard".

(I wonder how could this mob leader still walking the street...no arrest warrant...nothing)

TPBS shown a footage where Suthep Thepsuban was interviewed by a group of reporter this morning. Suthep said that he has received information that an amount of 30 Million Baht was paid to see to it that the mob clashes. Suthep also said that Charlerm made a phone call to show his support for the attacking mob in Udon Thani after the clash is inappropriate and should resign.

That should be enough to put the announcer inside and send a clear message that politcal violence is unacceptable. What Suthep says is all too believable although I expect there is no evidence. Also will the government be big enough to allow indictments and sentences against their own?

[^_^]

Some sources including the governor of Udon are saying nobody was killed, which if confirmed is good news indeed although it is probably only a matter of time.

I was wondering about that too while watching the News...why there was no mention of "death" but only the injured?

News only reported that there were 17-20 injured and most was discharged from hospital except 4 whom are more seriously injured.

Of course would be good if there really weren't any death.

[Plus]

And YH here have audacity to compare death of a PAD supporter at the hands of a mob directed by "democratic" government to shooting of a Nazi song writer over unpaid rent.