Spreaders of Conspiracy Theories: Unmasking the Motivations Behind the Lies

[raybona]

When we arrived in India we hade to "grease the palm" which is called "Bakshee's", because of a dog and everything else, even though we had all the papers in order, but we were so happy to finally arrive so we didn't care.

So, arriving in CM we expect the same but what is the normal standard, more or less, without insulting anyone or pay far to much?

Here, customs have a newspaper laying on their desk and ask you to contribute to the stack which is already laying there, and preferably in Euro's , and there the stamp came + free way through all the other officers waiting for their turn.

Same thing over there?

Ray

[Bill97]

No it is not the same thing over here and you really should get that clearly into your head. You mention a dog and "everything else". Since you do not state specifically what "everything else" is, nobody can help you. Why don't you search Thai customs regulations to find out what you might encounter for what you are bringing. Any answer you might get here would be for a different case, not the same stuff as yours will be, on a different day and probably with a different customs inspector and those 3 things can change the result very significantly. You may have to clear customs in Bangkok and not Chiang Mai anyway, some people do.

[p1p]

Thai customs regulations seem to be subject to flux at present. I hear reports of many travellers being stopped and charged significant amounts of "duty" for importing normal items.

A friend's mother was recently slapped with a demand for 2,500 Baht because she had three unopened packs of toothpaste. She refused to pay and demanded to meet his senior, wherupon she was allowed to proceed without paying.

[Tyke]

When we arrived in India we hade to "grease the palm" which is called "Bakshee's", because of a dog and everything else, even though we had all the papers in order, but we were so happy to finally arrive so we didn't care.

So, arriving in CM we expect the same but what is the normal standard, more or less, without insulting anyone or pay far to much?

Here, customs have a newspaper laying on their desk and ask you to contribute to the stack which is already laying there, and preferably in Euro's , and there the stamp came + free way through all the other officers waiting for their turn.

Same thing over there?

Ray

It's people like you who cause corruption in countries like this - and then complain about it or wonder why you have to wait when a bribe is not necessary or requested. Whenever you pay a bribe think of this:

1. How many other honest, law-abiding people are you jumping the queue around?

2. How many officials are you allowing to get away with corruption?

3. How many poorly paid officials might you be inducting into corruption?

4. What effect are you having on a developing country by promoting corruption, eg. bypassing safety 'mechanisms'. getting away with law-breaking?

Think about it - next time you arrive in a customs with a wad of bribery cash.

[Tyke]

Thai customs regulations seem to be subject to flux at present. I hear reports of many travellers being stopped and charged significant amounts of "duty" for importing normal items.

A friend's mother was recently slapped with a demand for 2,500 Baht because she had three unopened packs of toothpaste. She refused to pay and demanded to meet his senior, wherupon she was allowed to proceed without paying.

Whenever in doubt about having to pay for something and you don't know if it is a genuine payment or a bribe then ask for an official receipt and the name and/or number of the person who is asking for the payment. If it is genuine then these will be provided, if not then they will allow you through without payment. It's quite simple.

[mild7even]

Thai customs regulations seem to be subject to flux at present. I hear reports of many travellers being stopped and charged significant amounts of "duty" for importing normal items.

A friend's mother was recently slapped with a demand for 2,500 Baht because she had three unopened packs of toothpaste. She refused to pay and demanded to meet his senior, wherupon she was allowed to proceed without paying.

Whenever in doubt about having to pay for something and you don't know if it is a genuine payment or a bribe then ask for an official receipt and the name and/or number of the person who is asking for the payment. If it is genuine then these will be provided, if not then they will allow you through without payment. It's quite simple.

I almost got popped while clearing customs in Chiang Mai about a week ago. I had a baby stroller in a box and the inspector said it wasn't for personal use. I said what? It is for my personal use. And he said, "Not for YOUR personal use" meaning I wasn't going to be the person riding in it. Pointing to my obviously pregnant wife (in the waiting area just outside customs) didn't seem to work. I said okay, I'll pay the duty, but I want a receipt. Another inspector then came up and waved me through.

Play it cool, don't get excited, but don't hand over the cash just because they ask for it.

[Loaded]

When we arrived in India we hade to "grease the palm" which is called "Bakshee's", because of a dog and everything else, even though we had all the papers in order, but we were so happy to finally arrive so we didn't care.

So, arriving in CM we expect the same but what is the normal standard, more or less, without insulting anyone or pay far to much?

Here, customs have a newspaper laying on their desk and ask you to contribute to the stack which is already laying there, and preferably in Euro's , and there the stamp came + free way through all the other officers waiting for their turn.

Same thing over there?

Ray

It's people like you who cause corruption in countries like this - and then complain about it or wonder why you have to wait when a bribe is not necessary or requested. Whenever you pay a bribe think of this:

1. How many other honest, law-abiding people are you jumping the queue around?

2. How many officials are you allowing to get away with corruption?

3. How many poorly paid officials might you be inducting into corruption?

4. What effect are you having on a developing country by promoting corruption, eg. bypassing safety 'mechanisms'. getting away with law-breaking?

Think about it - next time you arrive in a customs with a wad of bribery cash.

He asked whether he needs to do it here and then you blame him for corruption at immigration - baa

[PeaceBlondie]

Let me guess, without knowing or caring what the nationality of the opening poster is. Things are so bad back in his home country that you can spend serious jail time just for starting to offer a bribe. Then he went to Goa and other places that were so different that the officer is upset if no bribe is offered. I seriously doubt if customs or immigration officers in Thailand can directly be offered a bribe. The traffic cop, however, can often be bought off for 200 to 500 baht cash. You have to live here for quite a while, or read this website 24/7 for a year, to know what is acceptable.

22 years at the IRS, in a position of authority to drastically change a taxpayer's liability, and I was never offered a bribe. I once abated 2 million dollars of tax, interest and penalties simply because it was the right thing to do, not for a bribe.

[Tyke]

When we arrived in India we hade to "grease the palm" which is called "Bakshee's", because of a dog and everything else, even though we had all the papers in order, but we were so happy to finally arrive so we didn't care.

So, arriving in CM we expect the same but what is the normal standard, more or less, without insulting anyone or pay far to much?

Here, customs have a newspaper laying on their desk and ask you to contribute to the stack which is already laying there, and preferably in Euro's , and there the stamp came + free way through all the other officers waiting for their turn.

Same thing over there?

Ray

It's people like you who cause corruption in countries like this - and then complain about it or wonder why you have to wait when a bribe is not necessary or requested. Whenever you pay a bribe think of this:

1. How many other honest, law-abiding people are you jumping the queue around?

2. How many officials are you allowing to get away with corruption?

3. How many poorly paid officials might you be inducting into corruption?

4. What effect are you having on a developing country by promoting corruption, eg. bypassing safety 'mechanisms'. getting away with law-breaking?

Think about it - next time you arrive in a customs with a wad of bribery cash.

He asked whether he needs to do it here and then you blame him for corruption at immigration - baa

Exactly. He's asking if you need to pay bribes at immigration and should they be ready for it. I am saying that no one has to pay bribes at immigration unless in some cases they just want to make life easier. I am saying such an attitude breeds corruption and the people who take part in it are to blame for it. You were spot on.

[Priceless]

When we arrived in India we hade to "grease the palm" which is called "Bakshee's", because of a dog and everything else, even though we had all the papers in order, but we were so happy to finally arrive so we didn't care.

So, arriving in CM we expect the same but what is the normal standard, more or less, without insulting anyone or pay far to much?

Here, customs have a newspaper laying on their desk and ask you to contribute to the stack which is already laying there, and preferably in Euro's , and there the stamp came + free way through all the other officers waiting for their turn.

Same thing over there?

Ray

It's people like you who cause corruption in countries like this - and then complain about it or wonder why you have to wait when a bribe is not necessary or requested. Whenever you pay a bribe think of this:

1. How many other honest, law-abiding people are you jumping the queue around?

2. How many officials are you allowing to get away with corruption?

3. How many poorly paid officials might you be inducting into corruption?

4. What effect are you having on a developing country by promoting corruption, eg. bypassing safety 'mechanisms'. getting away with law-breaking?

Think about it - next time you arrive in a customs with a wad of bribery cash.

He asked whether he needs to do it here and then you blame him for corruption at immigration - baa

Exactly. He's asking if you need to pay bribes at immigration and should they be ready for it. I am saying that no one has to pay bribes at immigration unless in some cases they just want to make life easier. I am saying such an attitude breeds corruption and the people who take part in it are to blame for it. You were spot on.

You may very well be right about Immigration. The same may however not be true about Immigration in India, where they are coming from Concerning Thailand, I agree that Immigration may be one of the cleaner authorities. On the other hand, I very much doubt it is possible to get anything major through Thai Customs without paying a bribe

I see no reason to suspect the OP of wanting or planning to bribe, unless it is absolutely necessary. He just wants to be prepared, a trait recommended by Lord Baden-Powell

/ Priceless

[Tyke]

When we arrived in India we hade to "grease the palm" which is called "Bakshee's", because of a dog and everything else, even though we had all the papers in order, but we were so happy to finally arrive so we didn't care.

So, arriving in CM we expect the same but what is the normal standard, more or less, without insulting anyone or pay far to much?

Here, customs have a newspaper laying on their desk and ask you to contribute to the stack which is already laying there, and preferably in Euro's , and there the stamp came + free way through all the other officers waiting for their turn.

Same thing over there?

Ray

It's people like you who cause corruption in countries like this - and then complain about it or wonder why you have to wait when a bribe is not necessary or requested. Whenever you pay a bribe think of this:

1. How many other honest, law-abiding people are you jumping the queue around?

2. How many officials are you allowing to get away with corruption?

3. How many poorly paid officials might you be inducting into corruption?

4. What effect are you having on a developing country by promoting corruption, eg. bypassing safety 'mechanisms'. getting away with law-breaking?

Think about it - next time you arrive in a customs with a wad of bribery cash.

He asked whether he needs to do it here and then you blame him for corruption at immigration - baa

Exactly. He's asking if you need to pay bribes at immigration and should they be ready for it. I am saying that no one has to pay bribes at immigration unless in some cases they just want to make life easier. I am saying such an attitude breeds corruption and the people who take part in it are to blame for it. You were spot on.

You may very well be right about Immigration. The same may however not be true about Immigration in India, where they are coming from Concerning Thailand, I agree that Immigration may be one of the cleaner authorities. On the other hand, I very much doubt it is possible to get anything major through Thai Customs without paying a bribe

I see no reason to suspect the OP of wanting or planning to bribe, unless it is absolutely necessary. He just wants to be prepared, a trait recommended by Lord Baden-Powell

/ Priceless

Priceless,

What do you mean by 'major'? I can't imagine there is anything legal that you cannot bring into the country without paying a bribe. You might have to pay import duty, but that is not the same thing.

And why should a bribe be necessary? I have been coming to Thailand for over 20 years and bribery has never figured at anytime in my immigration. In fact I have travelled all over the globe, incl. India and the same applies.

And pray tell me, how does the bribery system work at customs in Thailand? - I would love to know.

[PeaceBlondie]

I have never imported anything, but have understood that the "bribes" amount to absurd over-valuations of the goods being imported, such as used cars.

[thaiclan]

I had to pay a bribe to receive 2 boxes of home contents stuff. I was told that otherwise it could take many many months...

Yes it would be nice if we all had the time, principal and motivation to stand up against corruption, but the truth is we all want to go about our lives and not have to fight (ESPECIALLY IF WE CAN AFFORD IT).

If I was bringing my dog over here and was asked for a bribe I would pay if the alternative was I had to be separated from my dog for a length of time.

Corruption is awful, yes I agree and it hurts the poor and down trodden mostly. However, truthfully I would rather pay off the traffic cop, ease my goods through customs and pay a police officer to make a problem go away, rather than wasting my time and emotions trying to fight such an ingrained aspect of human culture - however distasteful.

[Priceless]

Priceless,

What do you mean by 'major'? I can't imagine there is anything legal that you cannot bring into the country without paying a bribe. You might have to pay import duty, but that is not the same thing.

And why should a bribe be necessary? I have been coming to Thailand for over 20 years and bribery has never figured at anytime in my immigration. In fact I have travelled all over the globe, incl. India and the same applies.

And pray tell me, how does the bribery system work at customs in Thailand? - I would love to know.

We spent some considerable time and effort and involved numerous people, including the immigration police, to get our furniture and other household goods through customs without paying 80,000 baht as demanded. As it was imported in my Thai wife's name (and she had lived abroad for years) it should legally be free of customs duty.

/ Priceless

[raybona]

I had to pay a bribe to receive 2 boxes of home contents stuff. I was told that otherwise it could take many many months...

Yes it would be nice if we all had the time, principal and motivation to stand up against corruption, but the truth is we all want to go about our lives and not have to fight (ESPECIALLY IF WE CAN AFFORD IT).

If I was bringing my dog over here and was asked for a bribe I would pay if the alternative was I had to be separated from my dog for a length of time.

Corruption is awful, yes I agree and it hurts the poor and down trodden mostly. However, truthfully I would rather pay off the traffic cop, ease my goods through customs and pay a police officer to make a problem go away, rather than wasting my time and emotions trying to fight such an ingrained aspect of human culture - however distasteful.

Hi Thaiclan (love your logo, tryed to get of the bug from my screen for some time!), and all you other guys who were protecting me.

First of all it is not people like me who promote corruption, but if you arrive in Goa and your dogs have been on a plane for 24 hours without water, you want them out as soon as possible. As Goa is not really India, asking for a reciept, or even worse, calling the highest officer on duty doesn't help here, you can even call the police. THEY'RE ALL IN IT!! At the end they will wave you through after sitting half the day in a hot office.

Thanks guys

[Tyke]

I had to pay a bribe to receive 2 boxes of home contents stuff. I was told that otherwise it could take many many months...

Yes it would be nice if we all had the time, principal and motivation to stand up against corruption, but the truth is we all want to go about our lives and not have to fight (ESPECIALLY IF WE CAN AFFORD IT).

If I was bringing my dog over here and was asked for a bribe I would pay if the alternative was I had to be separated from my dog for a length of time.

Corruption is awful, yes I agree and it hurts the poor and down trodden mostly. However, truthfully I would rather pay off the traffic cop, ease my goods through customs and pay a police officer to make a problem go away, rather than wasting my time and emotions trying to fight such an ingrained aspect of human culture - however distasteful.

Hi Thaiclan (love your logo, tryed to get of the bug from my screen for some time!), and all you other guys who were protecting me.

First of all it is not people like me who promote corruption, but if you arrive in Goa and your dogs have been on a plane for 24 hours without water, you want them out as soon as possible. As Goa is not really India, asking for a reciept, or even worse, calling the highest officer on duty doesn't help here, you can even call the police. THEY'RE ALL IN IT!! At the end they will wave you through after sitting half the day in a hot office.

Thanks guys

Why in God's name are u bringing dogs into Goa then into Thailand. It's stupid activities like this that people like you believe they have a right to get a quick fix by making bribes that is the whole problem. And yes, by giving bribes for quick fixes you are encouraging it. It's simple.

[Tywais]

Why in God's name are u bringing dogs into Goa then into Thailand. It's stupid activities like this that people like you believe they have a right to get a quick fix by making bribes that is the whole problem. And yes, by giving bribes for quick fixes you are encouraging it. It's simple.

You have made it clear "your" view points on this issue, but the OP has experienced an issue in Goa where it seems to be commonplace for this type of activity and simply wishes to know if it is the same in Thailand (CM). I don't see a need for your continuing posting the same comments on this, opening the topic up to a flame war.

[Lancashirelad]

I don't think any airline would carry dogs in the hold for 24 hrs (that's a very long flight!!) without access to water AND remembering to switch the hold heaters on.