Rants and Raves about Filipino EFL teachers in Thailand

[PeaceBlondie]

agreeing with garro, I think. There are more than 18 types of Filipinos in Thailand. More than 189 types of farang in Thai TEFL, from the Irish guy on the train that I could not understand, to my CELTA/DELTA trained Brit instructor that I also could not understand easily, to the Black Pacific islander I understood well, and so on. More than a dozen kinds of Thai English teachers, also. The general thing about generalities is that they are generally sillier than General Public.

[mrtoad]

There are generally 2 types of Philippinos who come here... Of course it's not 'black and white' and there are those Philippinos who fall somewhere in between the 2 groups mentioned below:

1) The low-quality teachers, with bad accents and very little or no teaching value...

*Similarly, the cheap Farang (or better 'falang') "Ki-Nok" types who come to Thailand are also 'low class' other than their ability to 'speak' English. It is usually also this type of Falang who encounter this type of Philippinos here in item #1.

2) The upper classed highly educated Philippinos with no 'accent', who either own their own businesses or work at top executive posts in multi-national corporations in Thailand earning 100,000 to 1 Million baht per month, are often chauffeur driven and live in luxury serviced apartments in sukhumvit or sathorn (and often even bring their own Philipino servants/nannies with them; Sunbelt clients in fact!)... often these upper classed Philippinos are graduates of Ateneyo or Delasalle and/or US universities... If ever these types of Philippinos teach in Thailand, they normally only take jobs from the top schools/universities in Thailand, such as Chula, Thamassat, Abac and don't live completely on teacher salary, but get supplementary allowances from their rich parents back in the Philippines and live in Thailand for 'fun'. This group of Philippinos, similar to the Thai hi-so, also look down on Ki-Nok falang and don't associate with them.

*The farangs who encounter and work with this Philippino group in #2 are executives and/or highly educated themselves, and often have a high view of Philippinos and view such philippinos as highly educated Asians.

***

That's why on this thread, it's easy to know who the Ki-Nok 'falangs' are, and who are not.

Well done, you have got my vote for most offensive post of the week.

Seconded, and he can't even spell Filipino, which would suggest that he would be in group 1.

[garro]

agreeing with garro, I think. There are more than 18 types of Filipinos in Thailand. More than 189 types of farang in Thai TEFL, from the Irish guy on the train that I could not understand, to my CELTA/DELTA trained Brit instructor that I also could not understand easily, to the Black Pacific islander I understood well, and so on. More than a dozen kinds of Thai English teachers, also. The general thing about generalities is that they are generally sillier than General Public.

Are you sure that he was from Ireland?

It is a common mistake in Thailand to think Ireland and Iceland is the same place.

Maybe you didn't understand because he wasn't speaking English?

Did he say something like, 'Smjörið er brætt og hveitið smátt og smátt hrært út í það, þangað til það er gengið upp í smjörið. Síðan er mjólkinni'?

[samskywalker]

There are many ways to skin a cat. Teaching English, whether it be British-based,North American, i.e., Canadian of US based, Australian, New Zealand-based, Irsh (Northern and Southern), whatever, Thai's can and do benefit from exposure to more than one-nation, one-dialect based English-language teaching. I am an American, a teacher for the past 38 years, multiple-degreed and yet I still find that some of the teachers here, without the same kind of background are doing a fair job of teaching in spite of the limitations placed upon them by school administrators. The problem is in the standards enforced by schools spoken of before--- no one fails, allowing late comers and enforced face-saving. Filipinos can teach well, some do and some don't, but look around many of those who do teach English here do so in order to survive in Thailand. Teacher-bashing based on origin of the teacher helps no one.

[junkofdavid2]

There are generally 2 types of Philippinos who come here... Of course it's not 'black and white' and there are those Philippinos who fall somewhere in between the 2 groups mentioned below:

1) The low-quality teachers, with bad accents and very little or no teaching value...

*Similarly, the cheap Farang (or better 'falang') "Ki-Nok" types who come to Thailand are also 'low class' other than their ability to 'speak' English. It is usually also this type of Falang who encounter this type of Philippinos here in item #1.

2) The upper classed highly educated Philippinos with no 'accent', who either own their own businesses or work at top executive posts in multi-national corporations in Thailand earning 100,000 to 1 Million baht per month, are often chauffeur driven and live in luxury serviced apartments in sukhumvit or sathorn (and often even bring their own Philipino servants/nannies with them; Sunbelt clients in fact!)... often these upper classed Philippinos are graduates of Ateneyo or Delasalle and/or US universities... If ever these types of Philippinos teach in Thailand, they normally only take jobs from the top schools/universities in Thailand, such as Chula, Thamassat, Abac and don't live completely on teacher salary, but get supplementary allowances from their rich parents back in the Philippines and live in Thailand for 'fun'. This group of Philippinos, similar to the Thai hi-so, also look down on Ki-Nok falang and don't associate with them.

*The farangs who encounter and work with this Philippino group in #2 are executives and/or highly educated themselves, and often have a high view of Philippinos and view such philippinos as highly educated Asians.

***

That's why on this thread, it's easy to know who the Ki-Nok 'falangs' are, and who are not.

Well done, you have got my vote for most offensive post of the week.

Seconded, and he can't even spell Filipino, which would suggest that he would be in group 1.

Yes I am ki Nok!

And by seeing who gets offended, it's obvious who's with me in the group!

Edited July 19, 2008 by junkofdavid2

[mrtoad]

[

Yes I am ki Nok!

And by seeing who gets offended, it's obvious who's with me in the group!

I certainly am.

Maybe we should set up a sub forum?

[PeaceBlondie]

... More than 189 types of farang in Thai TEFL, from the Irish guy on the train that I could not understand, to my CELTA/DELTA trained Brit instructor that I also could not understand easily, to the Black Pacific islander I understood well, and so on.

Are you sure that he was from Ireland?

It is a common mistake in Thailand to think Ireland and Iceland is the same place.

Maybe you didn't understand because he wasn't speaking English?

garro, he talked nothing like the folk in County Clare. Maybe more like the Aran Islands. But we were not even in the staff room of a school, we were heading north from Georgetown, Malaysia. He might have spoken proper English in the classroom. And that is where it matters, to speak a form of English which a foreigner understands, whether it is spoken by a native of Iceland or Belize.

[otherstuff1957]

The Filipino teachers I have worked with have ranged from being excellent teachers to awful teachers, from being near-native speakers to being almost unintelligible and from being thoroughly professional to being totally clueless. In other words, they've been pretty similar to the Farang teachers that I have worked with.

The only real beef I have with them is that they are so servile and desperate for a job that they devalue all other English teachers in Thailand!

[Ijustwannateach]

There is some serious bad feeling between native-speaking and non-native-speaking TEFLers in Thailand, for several reasons:

1. Quite frequently, the formal (paper) educational qualifications of the non-native-speakers are technically superior to the formal (paper) educational qualifications of the native speakers. However, to put this in perspective, a Filipino friend of mine who now makes big $$$ in the states told me that "there are only 2 or 3 universities in the Philippines which are actually any good." From personal observation of a few of those "universities," I can say that many of them are not unlike the local provincial universities in Thailand- which is to say, off the accreditation scale as far as the United States, the UK, and Australia would be concerned.

2. The native speakers get paid substantially more, often for the same amount of work or less. However, as I have frequently remarked on the same issue regarding foreigners "vs." Thais, native speakers ARE NOT IN THE SAME MARKET as Filipino TEFLers or Thai English teachers. That is to say, offered the same pay as a Thai teacher, those of us with any qualifications at all would simply not be around in any significant numbers (I barely came here myself at the rate then offered). You can't change the rules of the game after you've started playing, much as many would like to do so.

3. Being more insecure about their jobs and presence here, many non-native speaking personnel find themselves unable to say no to their schools' requests, and thus while working harder, are more likely to find themselves in staff management roles, sometimes even above native-speakers. Unfortunately, many of them find it difficult to handle such situations with professionalism and resort to using their new "power" to focus on petty grievances or act out resentment, spite, and general lack of fulfillment in life against the native-speaking staff (not unlike certain Thais in certain institutions).

4. Though it doesn't matter at probably 80-90% of Thai institutions where foreigners are employed as foreign language teachers (where most students will never develop a level of proficiency that makes it even worth paying extra for them), most native speakers are still better speakers of English across the board than most non-native speakers who have grown up in a non-native-speaking environment, no matter how experienced or qualified, and that has a bearing on how well they can teach it (whether they have talent as a teacher is another matter).

Basically, it is the old rule about minorities squabbling with each other over minor differences in status and perceived shortages in resources- divide and conquer. I wish the Filipino TEFLers (and other non-native speaking TEFLers) good luck, but they will not succeed in the long run through the odd tactic of attacks on the one group sure to be more expert in the language than they are.

By the way, stereotyping of foreign teachers in terms of wealth is off-topic and further posts in that direction are not encouraged.

"S"

[Jimjim]

I like some of the English teachers talking bad about Filipino teachers but don't realize it's "Filipino" and not "Philipino" even though it's the "Philippines". Anyway.

There are some good Filipino teachers and some bad ones in Thailand. I've seen both. Everyone's human. There are some good Western teachers and some bad ones in Thailand. I've seen both. But, when I was a teacher, in my opinion on average the Filipino teachers were better overall (discipline and even teaching English). In my opinion, the little mistakes that most of them made are not that big a deal as for a vast majority of Thai students they teach will never even speak as well as the average Filipino. Most of them probably couldn't take a Thai student to the highest level (all though I knew a few who could) but that's why you should have good Westerner EFL teachers as well. I worked in an ESL department and the best teacher was a Filipino guy. Even the parents of the students loved him for his enthusiasm and dedication.

[Rhys]

Moderator.... time to act... Really no place for this..

[garro]

Moderator.... time to act... Really no place for this..

Which thread are you talking about?

Your post doesn't make any sense as you don't indicate what there is 'no place for'.

[seagull]

It might be a little off topic here. But I have been wondering for sometime now. Doesn"t an English language teacher teaching Thai students the English language, needs to speak, read and write the Thai language too ? If not, how does an English teacher conducts his/her lessons where in a situation, explanations would be required to be in Thai ?

I am serious. Not being a smart-arsed here.

[PeaceBlondie]

Honest question. No, there is absolutely no requirement in most countries for EFL teachers to speak anything but English. That is how the teaching method works. I had trouble saying chaimai? and mai kojai (still do). I have never understood a single letter of the Thai alphabet, and I do not need to, to teach English. Surely, there were times when I wanted to say "open your books to page 9" or "Pongsachawit, stop beating Aranawanadachasa over the head" in Thai. Even if I could have, it would have taught less English. That is why most Thai teachers of English teach so little English - they can say it in Thai. Also, that is why I learned foreign languages so poorly from English speakers.

[mbkudu]

Also, that is why I learned foreign languages so poorly from English speakers.

That is an excellent point that never dawned on me. In high school I learned Spanish from a teacher who always explained everything in English. All we ever did was recite verbs (hablo, hable, hables, hablan, hablamos, over and over again) and vocabulary. I never learned how to speak.

As far as the topic goes. No teacher should ever be judged by his or her ethnic or national background. I don't understand

why the original poster even started such a topic. It is only cruel to do so, and fans the flames of division among teachers

here. After re-reading the original post I see that the poster seems to be on the positive side for Filipino teachers, but the

ensuing posts turned ugly to say the least.

Edited July 20, 2008 by mbkudu

[garro]

Also, that is why I learned foreign languages so poorly from English speakers.

That is an excellent point that never dawned on me. In high school I learned Spanish from a teacher who always explained everything in English. All we ever did was recite verbs (hablo, hable, hables, hablan, hablamos, over and over again) and vocabulary. I never learned how to speak.

As far as the topic goes. No teacher should ever be judged by his or her ethnic or national background. I don't understand

why the original poster even started such a topic. It is only cruel to do so, and fans the flames of division among teachers

here. After re-reading the original post I see that the poster seems to be on the positive side for Filipino teachers, but the

ensuing posts turned ugly to say the least.

The OP and some of the replies were taken from another thread. The OP claims to be a Filipino. Some of his replies were quite controversial, to say the least, and were removed - mind you, so were some of my replies to him.

Edited July 20, 2008 by garro

[mbkudu]

I guess I feel that it is a shame that people even find it necessary have such a debate at all.

[seagull]

Honest question. No, there is absolutely no requirement in most countries for EFL teachers to speak anything but English. That is how the teaching method works. I had trouble saying chaimai? and mai kojai (still do). I have never understood a single letter of the Thai alphabet, and I do not need to, to teach English. Surely, there were times when I wanted to say "open your books to page 9" or "Pongsachawit, stop beating Aranawanadachasa over the head" in Thai. Even if I could have, it would have taught less English. That is why most Thai teachers of English teach so little English - they can say it in Thai. Also, that is why I learned foreign languages so poorly from English speakers.

Aaaah, I understand what you're saying, PB. And appreciate your prompt response for something that has more or less puzzles me for awhile.

I just would find myself in an awkward situation if and when being thrown a question in Thai by a Thai student, needless to say why he asked it in Thai (as he can't speak English yet), I would then need to understand his questions and reply with both English and Thai, so that he/she perfectly understands the explanation given.

This is not a direct enquiry to you PB, therefore no need for a direct response likewise, but to any EFL teachers who knows only the English language (being native English speakers and EFL certified) but not the Thai language as well.

Or am I missing something again ?

[mrtoad]

Honest question. No, there is absolutely no requirement in most countries for EFL teachers to speak anything but English. That is how the teaching method works. I had trouble saying chaimai? and mai kojai (still do). I have never understood a single letter of the Thai alphabet, and I do not need to, to teach English. Surely, there were times when I wanted to say "open your books to page 9" or "Pongsachawit, stop beating Aranawanadachasa over the head" in Thai. Even if I could have, it would have taught less English. That is why most Thai teachers of English teach so little English - they can say it in Thai. Also, that is why I learned foreign languages so poorly from English speakers.

Aaaah, I understand what you're saying, PB. And appreciate your prompt response for something that has more or less puzzles me for awhile.

I just would find myself in an awkward situation if and when being thrown a question in Thai by a Thai student, needless to say why he asked it in Thai (as he can't speak English yet), I would then need to understand his questions and reply with both English and Thai, so that he/she perfectly understands the explanation given.

This is not a direct enquiry to you PB, therefore no need for a direct response likewise, but to any EFL teachers who knows only the English language (being native English speakers and EFL certified) but not the Thai language as well.

Or am I missing something again ?

Seagull, it depends on the school. Where I work, I always have a Thai assistant, so if there is a real problem in explaining something, then they are more than happy to help.I'm also pretty lucky in that the school that I work in has a very solid EP, so even at a young age the children are familiar with English.

It would be remiss of me to suggest that this is the same in other schools though.

BTW, my Thai is still pretty limited, but I make sure that I have plenty of materials which make things easier to explain.

[ilyushin]

If I were studying English, Thai, Vietnamese, Japanese or any other language it would be a native speaker. Hopefully with emphasis on culture, life in general and mannerisms.

Seen lots of bad English teachers ( come, stay, get weeded out, move on ) from UK, US, CA, AU, NZ, etc...BUT I have meet many more native English speaking teachers that are really great at what they do.

FYI- I witnessed this! Filipinos survived a purge in a private university near my home. Talented team of natives cleaned out. My wife also informed me that my children's school has changed natives English teachers to all Filipinos. Clean sweep! Manila mafia in a Catholic school?

Looks like a concern to me.

[mizzi39]

It might be a little off topic here. But I have been wondering for sometime now. Doesn"t an English language teacher teaching Thai students the English language, needs to speak, read and write the Thai language too ? If not, how does an English teacher conducts his/her lessons where in a situation, explanations would be required to be in Thai ?

I am serious. Not being a smart-arsed here.

Studies prove that new learners of a second language or L2 learn more effectively through acquisition or a "mothers tongue" and this is the reason for very little if any Thai translation in most classrooms especially M1-M6. translation is almost a disservice to the student. The students that attend the EP that I teach for are forced to learn through acquisition and take ALL of their courses in English with no translation. You would be surprised how far a student can progress when they are not bogged down with trying to apply language rules from their L1 to L2.

[mizzi39]

Moderator.... time to act... Really no place for this..

What a shame that posters like this are aloud on TV, even though this "discussion" may have started from another poster it should have been stopped by now. As a native speaker I do not find posters like these to be of service to anyone. I usually enjoy reading posters on the teachers forum especially opinions (replies) from peaceblonde and Garro (spelling correct I hope), but feel that this kind of topic pushes the envelope a bit to far. I find it ironic that TV has a policy about not naming and shaming TEFL programs or other schools even when they may deserve some "shame", but it is OK to name and shame a whole race based on whether or not they are "worthy" to be teaching English in LOS or anywhere else, so yes moderator should have acted because there is really no place for this! Poster should have been closed along time ago.

Edited July 21, 2008 by mizzi39

[PeaceBlondie]

mizzi, your advice is hereby taken. I had to move the off-topic firefight that erupted after garro (I think) said something reasonably nice about Filipinos, and it went downhill after that. Time to close it. Thanks, y'all.