Potjaman Shinawatra Found Guilty Of Tax Evasion

[VAGINATOR]

she will never spend one day behind bars.wait and see

[pampal]

Be amazed if they actually spend any time in jail. Could get interesting if they do though.

I assume that an appeal is on the cards.

The case cannot be appealed. However Pojaman's lawyer can present new valid evidence if any with the lower court within 30 days.

from what I remember about appeals courts, new evidence cannot be introduced, appeals courts only deal with problems of procedural law. but this is Thailand and I could be wrong.

[PuaSai]

How do they handle 'white collar' crime in Thailand? Do they have a high class facility for these types like the U.S. does or do they go to places like the "Bangkok Hilton"?

Just curious.

[PuaSai]

There's one for you, nineteen for me.

Cos I'm the taxman...

That IS a huge tax! Thats as bad or more than the U.S.

[PuaSai]

There's one for you, nineteen for me.

Cos I'm the taxman...

That IS a huge tax! Thats as bad or more than the U.S.

Thats 74% of the value! OUCH!

[sanguan]

Unlike Phillippines, no ex-PM (or Family) goes to jail. Even those to order the shooting (and killings) of hundreds of students and citizens. Remember 1974, 1976, Suchinda etc. All walks free, retires happly, and all travel with diplomatic passports.

[sriracha john]

There's one for you, nineteen for me.

Cos I'm the taxman...

That IS a huge tax! Thats as bad or more than the U.S.

Thats 74% of the value! OUCH!

No, Post #101

[sriracha john]

Unlike Phillippines, no ex-PM (or Family) goes to jail. Even those to order the shooting (and killings) of hundreds of students and citizens. Remember 1974, 1976, Suchinda etc. All walks free, retires happly, and all travel with diplomatic passports.

How many previous ex-PM wives in Thailand have ever been indicted, tried, convicted, and sentenced to prison?

Edited July 31, 2008 by sriracha john

[tango]

So the bail is less than 1 % of the amount the government was defrauded of.

Shrewd decision - there's still 70 billioin in frozen assets. They can run, if they want to.

They can run but they can't buy.

[Loaded]

Be amazed if they actually spend any time in jail. Could get interesting if they do though.

I assume that an appeal is on the cards.

The case cannot be appealed. However Pojaman's lawyer can present new valid evidence if any with the lower court within 30 days.

from what I remember about appeals courts, new evidence cannot be introduced, appeals courts only deal with problems of procedural law. but this is Thailand and I could be wrong.

That's my understanding as well, the appeals court can't accept new evidence. I think it's the verdict (conclusion of the evidence and investigation from the first court) that is appealed. IE the first court's interpretation of the evidence. I believe you need to use points of law to base your appeal on though. The 30-day period can be extended by applying to the court for an extension.

[jumnien]

Be amazed if they actually spend any time in jail. Could get interesting if they do though.

I assume that an appeal is on the cards.

The case cannot be appealed. However Pojaman's lawyer can present new valid evidence if any with the lower court within 30 days.

from what I remember about appeals courts, new evidence cannot be introduced, appeals courts only deal with problems of procedural law. but this is Thailand and I could be wrong.

That's my understanding as well, the appeals court can't accept new evidence. I think it's the verdict (conclusion of the evidence and investigation from the first court) that is appealed. IE the first court's interpretation of the evidence. I believe you need to use points of law to base your appeal on though. The 30-day period can be extended by applying to the court for an extension.

Yes, that's my understanding as well - the appeals court cannot accept new evidence. Traditionally, however, they can accept large stacks of crisp 1,000 baht notes or chanot title deeds for beachfront villas! One way or another, they are going to be well off!

Edited August 1, 2008 by sunrise07

[marshbags]

Former AEC member praises Pojaman verdictBy Bancha Khaengkhan

The Nation

Published on August 1, 2008

A former member of the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) yesterday declared the court verdict in the Pojaman Shinawatra taxevasion case the agency's first important achievement.

"It indicates our investigaฌtion was correct and that we could clearly point out to the court the scam to avoid tax payment by the Shinawatra family," said Viroj Laohaphan.

He believes the verdict will have an effect on other cases. After working for 18 months on 13 antigraft cases involving the Thaksin administration, the AEC - which has been sued by those they have been investiฌgating - received a morale boost when the Criminal Court handed down jail terms for Pojaman, her adopted brother, Banaphot Damapong, and her secretary, Kanchanapa Honghern, for avoiding paying taxes on Bt546 million for the sale of Shinawatra Computer and Communications shares.

Viroj said the AEC had conฌcrete evidence the share transฌfer by Pojaman to her brother violated Article 37 of the Civil Code. As a result of the verdict, the Revenue Department will collect the tax that had been avoided.

He said the AEC had also filed a suit against Revenue Department officials who replied in a letter to Pojaman that the sale of the shares was not subject to taxation.

Viroj will testify as a witness in court early next month.

Unquote

Scrolling through the thread i noted that several posters were asking about the bit highlighted in red , apologies if i,ve missed something on the issue.

They should also be billed on interest that it would have earned and paid into the coffers to improve the plight of the poor in some way.

Keep your thieving fingers off it you greedy, self rewarding unprincipled B*ST*R*S

marshbags

Edited August 1, 2008 by marshbags

[NoSpeakIt]

When you think about it, this is what's kept the place 'pleasant' enough - but the mid-term future doesn't look very good does it..

I for one am looking forward to the post USSR-esque free for all that it'll likely all become. I have my chess pieces in place, how about ya'll?

this sounds really cool but why is there going to be a free for all?

[wolfmanjack]

I for one am looking forward to the post USSR-esque free for all that it'll likely all become. I have my chess pieces in place, how about ya'll?

Good point Heng. But do you expect a complete free for all-scene for all farangs too? That would be fantastic :-D

Good old days, open discos until the sun comes up and goes down again?

There will plenty of crumbs to go around for everyone, farangs included.

Not sure what you mean by "discos" though, you mean like in historical documentaries like Saturday Night Fever?

I think he is referring to when i first started coming to Thailand where the bars and discos would stay open until the sun came up.

I want to hear more about the free for all you mentioned. Are you saying that there will business opportunities for those of us not so rich because all of the rich and powerful thai families will be at each others throats ????

[NoSpeakIt]

I for one am looking forward to the post USSR-esque free for all that it'll likely all become. I have my chess pieces in place, how about ya'll?

Cash is king. Especially Euro's

Cheers

no, gold is king.

[blaze]

Former AEC member praises Pojaman verdictBy Bancha Khaengkhan

The Nation

Published on August 1, 2008

A former member of the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) yesterday declared the court verdict in the Pojaman Shinawatra taxevasion case the agency's first important achievement.

"It indicates our investigaฌtion was correct and that we could clearly point out to the court the scam to avoid tax payment by the Shinawatra family," said Viroj Laohaphan.

He believes the verdict will have an effect on other cases. After working for 18 months on 13 antigraft cases involving the Thaksin administration, the AEC - which has been sued by those they have been investiฌgating - received a morale boost when the Criminal Court handed down jail terms for Pojaman, her adopted brother, Banaphot Damapong, and her secretary, Kanchanapa Honghern, for avoiding paying taxes on Bt546 million for the sale of Shinawatra Computer and Communications shares.

Viroj said the AEC had conฌcrete evidence the share transฌfer by Pojaman to her brother violated Article 37 of the Civil Code. As a result of the verdict, the Revenue Department will collect the tax that had been avoided.

He said the AEC had also filed a suit against Revenue Department officials who replied in a letter to Pojaman that the sale of the shares was not subject to taxation.

Viroj will testify as a witness in court early next month.

Unquote

Scrolling through the thread i noted that several posters were asking about the bit highlighted in red , apologies if i,ve missed something on the issue.

They should also be billed on interest that it would have earned and paid into the coffers to improve the plight of the poor in some way.

Keep your thieving fingers off it you greedy, self rewarding unprincipled B*ST*R*S

marshbags

OK- now just what IS article 37 of the civil code?

Does this mean that if the revenue department oks a transaction I undertake- I can still be charged with tax evasion?

[RusticCharm]

I'll be gobsmacked if any of the Shin's do a day in jail.

Though it'd be great to see them all in there. Mum, dad, the two ugly daughters and the cheating son.

[marshbags]

I'll be gobsmacked if any of the Shin's do a day in jail.

Though it'd be great to see them all in there. Mum, dad, the two ugly daughters and the cheating son.

Ideally we would all wish them to serve their sentences in full and deservedly so.

Should they in some way be facilitated a means to do a runner, despite lack of documentation and being officially banned from leaving the country...

Ahem but ........................

The important thing is the precedent that has now been set, the signal it sends out and the future court cases that are coming up.

Had they got off these charges, then achieving any justice in the ongoing cases, would have been very difficult indeed.

In the time it took to read out the verdict, along with the live filming of it for all to see, it has in my humble opinion, raised the bar massively in relation to the standards it sets from now on.

Brilliant result, Outstanding , Excellent ect. ect. ect. justiceeeeeeeee and accountability at long last.

marshbags

Edited August 1, 2008 by marshbags

[NanaFoods]

I'll be gobsmacked if any of the Shin's do a day in jail.

Though it'd be great to see them all in there. Mum, dad, the two ugly daughters and the cheating son.

I remain skeptical as well...

...at the same time hopeful that an example might finally be made against widespread corruption in Thai politics.

I'll believe it when I see actually happen.

[ray23]

Tax I have no idea what he real tax rate is, but keeep in mind that number might include panaltie adn intrest at this point.

Two of them got an extra year for cooking the books. If the entire verdict is every converted to english, then we might be able to get an understanding unless you read Thai.

They will file the appeal and have years to work on this unless I miss my guess. It would seem very important to have the government structure in place to change law, for the family these days.

[Plus]

At this point I'm completely lost. Sometimes it appears clear to me and in the next moment something new comes up.

Pojamarn wanted to give Bonaphot some shares in Shin, don't ask me why. If she did so, he had to pay tax on this income (25-30%), so she arranged an untaxable stock "sale" from herself to herself (paid for Bonaphot shares) using her nominee maid and called the whole thing a "wedding gift" (once it was called "child birth gift", too). The court said it didn't qualify as "gift due to moral obligations", as defence claimed, the court relied on Thai dictionary to clarify the meaning of the term. It concluded that Bonaphot wasn't a poor man and had millions of shares in Shin already, there was no moral obligation to lift him out of poverty.

The unpaid tax attracted 200+ million in fines, and also interest. That's how the damage amount shot to 75% of the initial sale value.

The part about a fake gift is clear but I still don't understand where the fake sale fits into all this.

[NoSpeakIt]

I'll be gobsmacked if any of the Shin's do a day in jail.

Though it'd be great to see them all in there. Mum, dad, the two ugly daughters and the cheating son.

Ideally we would all wish them to serve their sentences in full and deservedly so.

Should they in some way be facilitated a means to do a runner, despite lack of documentation and being officially banned from leaving the country...

Ahem but ........................

The important thing is the precedent that has now been set, the signal it sends out and the future court cases that are coming up.

Had they got off these charges, then achieving any justice in the ongoing cases, would have been very difficult indeed.

In the time it took to read out the verdict, along with the live filming of it for all to see, it has in my humble opinion, raised the bar massively in relation to the standards it sets from now on.

Brilliant result, Outstanding , Excellent ect. ect. ect. justiceeeeeeeee and accountability at long last.

marshbags

you guys are jumping the gun here. thaskin couldn't rally enough power and ended up on the losing side of the coin that doesnt mean that anything is changing or that there is a new precedent for justice, it just means there is a change of power. i promise there are a hundred new men waiting to follow his lead in robbing the country blind. its hardly different elsewhere on this planet. in the usa, they call this process an "election".

[Plus]

They certainly are not going to go after every corruption case, it's simply impossible. There are too just many thieves to catch them all.

Still bastards would think twice about possibility of getting caught. Under Thaksin it was not a concern at all.

Thanks Heng for reminding of post USSR.

This case is pretty much like when Putin jailed Khodorkvoskdsodkswy a few years ago - to keep a dozen other oligarchs in line. Free for all looting had to stop.

And I bet Heng is waiting for the next round of "free for all" times. He'd set up a disco himself for those who think it's about dancing whole night. He'd even set a soup kitchen for those who think it's about giving away food. This way everybody will be happy.

[Heng]

How do they handle 'white collar' crime in Thailand? Do they have a high class facility for these types like the U.S. does or do they go to places like the "Bangkok Hilton"?

Just curious.

The status quo is that you pay your way out before prosecution. There has never been a need for a high class minimum security facility because it rarely gets that far.... and if it does, it's usually because you have been *doing the crime and not saving your cash.* In other words, you fit into the Thai requirements for jail time: Are you either 1) poor and/or 2) stupid? Welcome to prison.

Edited August 1, 2008 by Heng

[Heng]

When you think about it, this is what's kept the place 'pleasant' enough - but the mid-term future doesn't look very good does it..

I for one am looking forward to the post USSR-esque free for all that it'll likely all become. I have my chess pieces in place, how about ya'll?

this sounds really cool but why is there going to be a free for all?

Well, don't get me wrong, it's been the Wild East here for some time already... but in the minds of a good majority of locals (and some foreigners), there has been that one factor that TG2 mentioned that has kept people in line just a little more than they would otherwise be inclined. Kind of like folks who are semi-religious and have a slight nagging at the edge of their conscience that they should or shouldn't be doing something. Well, if that 'force' is removed (like telling people that the ten commandments no longer apply), you're going to get a free for all of sorts.

[Heng]

I for one am looking forward to the post USSR-esque free for all that it'll likely all become. I have my chess pieces in place, how about ya'll?

Good point Heng. But do you expect a complete free for all-scene for all farangs too? That would be fantastic :-D

Good old days, open discos until the sun comes up and goes down again?

There will plenty of crumbs to go around for everyone, farangs included.

Not sure what you mean by "discos" though, you mean like in historical documentaries like Saturday Night Fever?

I think he is referring to when i first started coming to Thailand where the bars and discos would stay open until the sun came up.

I want to hear more about the free for all you mentioned. Are you saying that there will business opportunities for those of us not so rich because all of the rich and powerful thai families will be at each others throats ????

Yeah, I was just playing. It's just that I have always thought of "disco" as an out of date era-specific term.

Well, I think there will be more opportunities, but again, that's completely relative. Obviously for those with very little capital and a very thin or non-existent social network, it'll be the same ol' game of "watching other people play." For those already on the field (whatever field that is), there will be IMO a more 'anything goes' type of feel to the rules and regulations both real and 'imagined' as a frame of mind. Perhaps kind of like when you step on the plane in any state in the US and then get off the plane in Vegas or Hedonism 2.

[steffi]

So, do all these charges mean that if they wanted to they can find the entire family guilty on tax evasion charges?

[NoSpeakIt]

heng i still have no idea why the rules are changing

how does this ruling effect every day people in society?

why is there an 'anything goes' type feel?

[BigC]

A courageous and excellent start to begin the long road to seeking justice in the Kingdom of Thailand.

it is terrible. his wife has only obviously helped out her husband. So what happens in this country after u become priminister u have to go to jail.

u show men one leader round the world who has not done something dogey

[Heng]

heng i still have no idea why the rules are changing

how does this ruling effect every day people in society?

why is there an 'anything goes' type feel?

My reply was to post #167, in particular the second paragraph, and not to the OP, NoSpeakit. This ruling doesn't change anything, IMO, and has little relevance to the average local or foreigner... other than pointing out that: blatant >100 million tax evasion by 'public' figures is now frowned upon. But don't get too excited because discreet >100 million tax evasion and most certainly <100 million tax evasion is still the accepted norm.