Potjaman Shinawatra Found Guilty Of Tax Evasion

[sriracha john]

Confirmed word has it that one of her daughters changed her Facebook tagline to 'life isn't fair'.

My response: no it isn't honey, no it isn't......

link, PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE....

[sriracha john]

Thaksin, wife won't seek asylum abroad: Spokesman

Ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Potjaman will not seek political asylum abroad, Thaksin's spokesman Pongthep Thepkanchana said Friday. "I can assure you that Thaksin will return to Thailand as scheduled, after attending the opening of the Olympics in Beijing on August 9 and 10," Pongthep said. His statement came after the Criminal Court found Potjaman guilty in tax evasion case. The court sentenced her to three years in jail. She was released on bail the day of the verdict. He insisted that Thaksin and his wife will come back to Thailand to fight the cases because they have faith in the justice

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=129208

=======================================================================

Believability has always been a problem with them. The "Thaksin Calling It Quits" thread is full of hundreds of his lies.

[samran]

Confirmed word has it that one of her daughters changed her Facebook tagline to 'life isn't fair'.

My response: no it isn't honey, no it isn't......

link, PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE....

strident TRT/PPP co-worker who's maintains that her party is the best representative of the poor has gone to consult with her interior designer on her 40million baht 'flat' (as she calls it) which is nearing completion. Daddy's wedding present. She needs to beat the traffic in her Merc you see.....

Means I can't get a screenshot of the offending page on her laptop.....

[sriracha john]

Confirmed word has it that one of her daughters changed her Facebook tagline to 'life isn't fair'.

My response: no it isn't honey, no it isn't......

link, PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE....

strident TRT/PPP co-worker who's maintains that her party is the best representative of the poor has gone to consult with her interior designer on her 40million baht 'flat' (as she calls it) which is nearing completion. Daddy's wedding present. She needs to beat the traffic in her Merc you see.....

Means I can't get a screenshot of the offending page on her laptop.....

ahhh ok, requires stealth mode activity...

a superficial search of the site I did didn't turn it up... if your sleuthing is successful, sharing would be much appreciated.

[EdgeCarver]

Thread started to separate different cases posted in thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Face...ts-t137657.html

Thaksin May Face More Arrest Warrants

=============================================================================

BREAKING NEWS

Potjaman Shinawatra Guilty

10.47am : The Criminal Court on Thursday found Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra guilty of intentionally avoiding a tax payment of Bt546 million for the transfer of 4.5 million shares of the Shinawatra Computer and Communications' shares worth Bt738 million. Also found guilty in the historic trial are Pojaman's brother Bannaphot Damapong and her personal secretary Kanchana Honghern. The court sentenced Pojaman and Bannaphot each to 3 years in jail.

- The Nation

Am I being naive or has no-one else noticed the strange tax rate that seems to have been applied here?

According to my search of tax rates in Thailand the top rate for income tax is 37% (for incomes over THB 4 million) and capital gains are taxed as income (i.e. no special rates or allowances). Even if the WHOLE of the transfer was deemed a capital gain (i.e. the shares were acquired for zero consideration) the numbers quoted are twice the tax rate that should have been applied.

I would hazard a guess that there was consideration in acquiring the shares and so the tax liability should have been much less than half the sum quoted in the press.

Don't get me wrong, I have no truck with tax evaders but should I ever retire to Thailand it would be good to know that the tax law is properly understood by the revenue authorities and properly enforced by the judiciary.

[sriracha john]

Once again, Post #101 will be helpful to read regarding the actual tax incurred and the penalties.

[wolfmanjack]

Thread started to separate different cases posted in thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Face...ts-t137657.html

Thaksin May Face More Arrest Warrants

=============================================================================

BREAKING NEWS

Potjaman Shinawatra Guilty

10.47am : The Criminal Court on Thursday found Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra guilty of intentionally avoiding a tax payment of Bt546 million for the transfer of 4.5 million shares of the Shinawatra Computer and Communications' shares worth Bt738 million. Also found guilty in the historic trial are Pojaman's brother Bannaphot Damapong and her personal secretary Kanchana Honghern. The court sentenced Pojaman and Bannaphot each to 3 years in jail.

- The Nation

Am I being naive or has no-one else noticed the strange tax rate that seems to have been applied here?

According to my search of tax rates in Thailand the top rate for income tax is 37% (for incomes over THB 4 million) and capital gains are taxed as income (i.e. no special rates or allowances). Even if the WHOLE of the transfer was deemed a capital gain (i.e. the shares were acquired for zero consideration) the numbers quoted are twice the tax rate that should have been applied.

I would hazard a guess that there was consideration in acquiring the shares and so the tax liability should have been much less than half the sum quoted in the press.

Don't get me wrong, I have no truck with tax evaders but should I ever retire to Thailand it would be good to know that the tax law is properly understood by the revenue authorities and properly enforced by the judiciary.

Ever hear of penalties and interest ???? Just because the paper does not spell it out does no mean that they aren't included.

[EdgeCarver]

Thread started to separate different cases posted in thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Face...ts-t137657.html

Thaksin May Face More Arrest Warrants

=============================================================================

BREAKING NEWS

Potjaman Shinawatra Guilty

10.47am : The Criminal Court on Thursday found Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra guilty of intentionally avoiding a tax payment of Bt546 million for the transfer of 4.5 million shares of the Shinawatra Computer and Communications' shares worth Bt738 million. Also found guilty in the historic trial are Pojaman's brother Bannaphot Damapong and her personal secretary Kanchana Honghern. The court sentenced Pojaman and Bannaphot each to 3 years in jail.

- The Nation

Am I being naive or has no-one else noticed the strange tax rate that seems to have been applied here?

According to my search of tax rates in Thailand the top rate for income tax is 37% (for incomes over THB 4 million) and capital gains are taxed as income (i.e. no special rates or allowances). Even if the WHOLE of the transfer was deemed a capital gain (i.e. the shares were acquired for zero consideration) the numbers quoted are twice the tax rate that should have been applied.

I would hazard a guess that there was consideration in acquiring the shares and so the tax liability should have been much less than half the sum quoted in the press.

Don't get me wrong, I have no truck with tax evaders but should I ever retire to Thailand it would be good to know that the tax law is properly understood by the revenue authorities and properly enforced by the judiciary.

Ever hear of penalties and interest ???? Just because the paper does not spell it out does no mean that they aren't included.

Thank you for the courtesy of your reply.

You are clearly right about the newspaper not spelling out what the claim amounted to. However, you can't assume that I can infer penalty rates or interest rates without any information about either.

All I have - without benefit of the newspaper itself - is the report in this blog.

As a former consultant to Investment Managers in the City of London and other financial centres I know that inference without evidence (particularly in respect of taxes) is a dangerous game.

I would also point out that I was interested mainly in the tenor of the comment - mainly enthusiasm at the findings against Khunyin Thaksin - and only after writing was I aware that in the TEN pages of this thread was there an occasional comment on rates and penalties.

Nevertheless, thank you once again for the courtesy of your reply. I shall try to ensure that my researches and/or enquiries are more thorough in the future so that I don't put you to further trouble.

[elliss]

where will the jail be ../?

hong kong ,

manchester city , football club ..

bahamas .

what about a poll on this ,

suitable jail locations

[Plus]

Pentaly rates come from Nation's article, I think the first big write up in this thread, unfortunately comes at the top of page 4.

There are 26 referrals to that post on practically every page, and counting.

Basically the pentalty doubled the amount, and then there's interst. So, here's you jump from the initial 30+% ot 75%.

>>>

So a theif is not a theif until he get's caught, nevermind everyone know he's stealing

I don't know that Sondhi or Chamlong are stealing anything. Thaksin tried to legally get Sondhi and his ASTV while he was still a PM. There was nothing.

No one is even calling them "thieves".

Sondhi has lost at least one defamation case, btw. Is it fair enough for you?

[Heng]

When i first came here it was explained to me that the "Army Mafia" was the most powerful force in thailand. Then came the "Police Mafia" and then the "Mafia Mafia". My father was at the night bazaar in Chiang Mai when a police officer walked up and shot a vendor right in front of him. My dad was like "what the hel_l was that?" Another vendor told my father that person did not pay so he was made an example of for the rest of the vendors. Right after that happened a few army personal were stationed at he night bazaar. I still see one guy with a beret keeping an eye on things.

So you are saying that it might go back to the army and police extracting protection money from businesses? I am already paying some tea money but i would hate for it to get out of control.

It all depends on one's point of view I suppose. I've always found that it's the police that have more business interests, and the army a distant second. In Cholburi though for example, you'll find plenty of navy folks who have a lock on the underworld and a light but significant grasp of the legal business world (and it seems that just about every land title that passes before me has plenty of navy ranks as part of the owner history on the back of the deed), for a long time controlling much of the smuggling going on, later to be shared with the police. That said, I've always felt that all of these institutions have always been the tools of (and thus at the mercy of) the various business elements of society, but legal and illegal -both organized and informal criminal groups-, mostly because the former (police, army, navy, etc.) aren't as capable of/adept at transferring their wealth and power from generation to generation as 'civilians' are.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin has no plan to seek asylum: Sansanee

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra did not plan to seek a political asylum abroad and he did not cry following the conviction ruling against his wife, his personal spokesman said Friday.

Sansanee Nakpong said Thaksin would return to Thailand on either August 9 or 10 and would not remain overseas to escape court cases.

She said Thaksin insisted to defend himself in court in all cases.

"Thaksin is in great spirit and did not cry as reported. I was there with him yesterday. And before he flied to Japan, he talked cheerfully to his family and those who saw him off," the spokeswoman said.

- The Nation

===================================

I did so NOT cry...

----------------------------------

as for "defend himself IN court" nonsense... he missed today's defense opening in the land case (refer to that thread)

[sriracha john]

So a theif is not a theif until he get's caught, nevermind everyone know he's stealing

I don't know that Sondhi or Chamlong are stealing anything. Thaksin tried to legally get Sondhi and his ASTV while he was still a PM. There was nothing.

No one is even calling them "thieves".

Sondhi has lost at least one defamation case, btw. Is it fair enough for you?

I think we're looking at another case of "sunrise syndrome"...

perhaps the treatment for the malady should be the same.

[mahtin]

There's one for you, nineteen for me.

Cos I'm the taxman...

That IS a huge tax! Thats as bad or more than the U.S.

Thats 74% of the value! OUCH!

No, Post #101

Actually it's from an old Beatles song referring to tax of nineteen shillings in the pound that they were then paying on record sales.

There were 20 shillings in one pound.

[tracer]

Thread started to separate different cases posted in thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Face...ts-t137657.html

Thaksin May Face More Arrest Warrants

=============================================================================

BREAKING NEWS

Potjaman Shinawatra Guilty

10.47am : The Criminal Court on Thursday found Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra guilty of intentionally avoiding a tax payment of Bt546 million for the transfer of 4.5 million shares of the Shinawatra Computer and Communications' shares worth Bt738 million. Also found guilty in the historic trial are Pojaman's brother Bannaphot Damapong and her personal secretary Kanchana Honghern. The court sentenced Pojaman and Bannaphot each to 3 years in jail.

- The Nation

I thought these were high court desisions. So how can anyone go higher up to 'bypass' the system????

[baanthale]

So a theif is not a theif until he get's caught, nevermind everyone know he's stealing

I don't know that Sondhi or Chamlong are stealing anything. Thaksin tried to legally get Sondhi and his ASTV while he was still a PM. There was nothing.

No one is even calling them "thieves".

Sondhi has lost at least one defamation case, btw. Is it fair enough for you?

I think we're looking at another case of "sunrise syndrome"...

perhaps the treatment for the malady should be the same.

Nice post So you reached that level now? I'm quite sure that even you two, sooner or later, will understand that Thailands social and political problems goes a little deeper than just the Thaksin family

[slapout]

Well I guess the conviction for tax evasion, along with other things accomplished by the Thaksin family will put them on par with other famous people from around the world, Al Capone, Vatanna, Marcos, etc.

[baanthale]

Well I guess the conviction for tax evasion, along with other things accomplished by the Thaksin family will put them on par with other famous people from around the world, Al Capone, Vatanna, Marcos, etc.

And all I am saying is that if it's JUSTICE we are looking for, there should be a lot more people in these court rooms, not only the Thaksins. Thailand will still be as corrupt tomorrow, the money just change hands!

[old wanderer]

Regarding the latest development some event come to mind....

"King Bhumibol Adulyadej called on the courts to be, in effect, political referees, saying, "If you do not follow legal principles, correct administration principles, the country will not survive as it is today."

Since then, the courts have taken steps that have curbed the power of Thaksin and his allies, nullifying an election, disbanding a political party and barring him and 110 other party officials from politics for five years.

"This judicial activism is justified because the other branches, I mean the legislative and executive, do not function well," said Somchai Homlaor, who heads Forum Asia, a human rights group. "This is a crucial period for the judiciary. If they get good support from the public and they function well, this will be the turning point of Thai politics. If this judicial activism fails to reform our politics, this will end up as a disaster for our society."

Did his words finally bear some fruit?

Source:

and on it goes...

"In the latest case, military-backed investigators accused the fallen premier of conflict of interest in a loan granted by the Export-Import Bank of Thailand so that Myanmar could buy satellite services from Thaksin's Shin Satellite.

The investigators claim Thaksin wrongly ordered the Exim Bank to increase a three-billion-baht (89.6-million-dollar) loan to four billion baht, so that Myanmar's ruling junta could buy more services from ShinSat.

ShinSat is part of the Shin Corp telecom firm, which Thaksin founded. His family sold the company to Singapore's state-linked Temasek Holdings in January 2006 in a tax-free deal that prompted street protests leading to the military coup against him.

‘The charges submitted by the (investigators) are enough to warrant a hearing. The court decided to take the case,’ Judge Panya Suthibodi told the court, setting the first hearing for September 15.

Neither Thaksin nor his lawyer attended the hearing Wednesday.

The case is the latest in the mounting legal challenges against Thaksin. He also faces trial at the Supreme Court for allegedly arranging for his wife to buy a prime chunk of real estate for just one-third its appraised value, while other graft cases are pending."

Source:

I made the mistake of hooking up my wife's Thai TV here in the USA after we moved. She sits in front of it, sometimes sleeps on the floor in front of it, all the time glued to ASTV and the situation and protest going on. I think she even had her sister take some money to the protest in Suam Luang. She love Sondhi. She believes he is the best hope of Thai people finally hearing the truth on what is going on.

Also he is on the phone to her village in Issan yelling at people about Thaksin.

When this government is finally thrown out, and a new government is installed hopefully the King's words will spread to the rest of the government as it seems to have effected the Court..

I am sure when Thaksin attorney and helpers were thrown in jail last month, no appeal, no bail, (including a woman), and they still have to face criminal charges of 5 years for attempted bribery, it was a wake-up call that maybe the rules of the game have changed.

King Bhumibol Adulyadej seldom speaks, but if there is one revered person in Thailand, it is His Royal Highness, King Bhumibol. A few words and everyone tries to please him.

Thaksin make the mistake of trying to replace him with his self.

[Plus]

And all I am saying is that if it's JUSTICE we are looking for, there should be a lot more people in these court rooms, not only the Thaksins.

There are two dozen cases going to the courts, Thaksin and his family are not the only defendants, his entire cabinet is there, even Attorney General is there, it's not only Thaksins.

If you mean that Democrat and PAD leaders should be prosecuted, too, they need to commit crimes first. You can't prosecute them simply for being the opposition and call it "fair".

>>>>

When Democrats were embroiled in a petty land scandal in Phuket they resigned themselves. and set a standard. Three years later NAP government resigned, taking responsibility for the 1997 crisis.

Thaksin and his cronies sucessive governments have no shame, showed no remorse, and they never aknowledge their wrongdoing or repsonsibilit.

Their punishement should be made into an example for other aspiring politicians.

[A_Traveller]

There's an interesting piece, entitled Thaksin family's gamble fails to pay especially the last segment, on the BBC website from Jonathan Head, which I'll only link to Background Article.

Regards

edit/add title//

Edited August 2, 2008 by A_Traveller

[sriracha john]

Courts might soon send Thaksin packing for England

Thursday's verdict against Pojaman Shinawatra is not simply about the tax-evasion case, but it also has far-reaching implications for the political scene.

The dreadful facial expression of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra as the verdict against his wife was delivered was a tell-tale sign that this was a defining moment in his life. Known for his devotion to family, Thaksin will definitely do everything in his power to ensure that his wife Pojaman never serves a day of her three-year jail term.

This does not mean he will try to tamper with the judiciary. He may well, however, take advantage of the final option remaining to him to break free from his legal troubles and that is to relocate his family to England.

Like many world leaders unwanted in their home countries, Thaksin can live a peaceful life in London. It is not imperative for him to apply for asylum. He is expected to keep busy by running Manchester City Football Club.

Under Thai law, Thaksin and Pojaman may remain fugitives for the rest of their lives, but that is a reasonable price to pay in exchange for a fresh start. The alternative is imprisonment with a glimmer of hope for a royal pardon.

When Thaksin ended his self-imposed exile in February, he may have harboured a secret hope that the People Power Party's election victory could translate into his triumphant return. He found himself caught up in legal wrangling because of politics, so it was reasonable that he would expect politics to rescue him from trouble. Unfortunately things failed to go according to plan.

The People Power Party has plunged into the political quagmire and now barely remains afloat. Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej proved to be a hard-headed proxy. And the judiciary turned out to be an impregnable fortress. The excitement of the People Power Party's election victory quickly faded. The government was preoccupied with its problems, hence it was not in a position to get Thaksin out of his legal entanglements.

Although every court battle involving Thaksin and his wife has political overtones, the judicial review is based strictly on pertinent factual and legal issues. The tax-evasion case involving Pojaman provided clear proof that the judiciary cannot be swayed by sentiment.

From start to finish, the evidence shown during trial indicated a clear-cut case for conviction. And the Criminal Court found no cause to grant leniency in sentencing.

The defence can hope to overturn the conviction by appellate review, though the odds are stacked against such a move being successful. The next court battle will focus on the Ratchadaphisek land case involving Thaksin and Pojaman. The graft case, which is being tried in the Supreme Court, is expected to conclude this month or early next month if there are delays. The prosecution's evidence is strong, and a conviction is looming a few months following trial. Since the case is being fast-tracked, the judicial review is one tier and Thaksin will have no chance to appeal.

If Thaksin is to relocate his family, he must do so soon, preferably before the conclusion of the land case in order to get permission to travel abroad.

Preparations might already be under way for relocation. Thaksin is disengaging himself from the People Power Party. If the latest Cabinet reshuffle is any indication, Samak has gained a firmer grip on the People Power Party while Thaksin is fading out. A few months ago, no one would have believed that Samak could win the loyalty of more than 30 MPs from the Northeast.

Although the Isaan Pattana faction has dissolved itself, its MPs still retain a loose alliance with Samak out of gratitude for his allocation of a Cabinet seat.

Of course, Thaksin still wields formidable influence over the People Power Party. But he appears to delegate more and more decisions to be made among the four powerful factions. The People Power Party is on track to seeing itself run by collective leadership.

The factions are led by Newin Chidchob for MPs from the lower Northeast, Sudarat Keyuraphan for Bangkok MPs, Sompong Amornwiwat and Yongyuth Tiyapairat for MPs from the North and Surapong Suebwonglee for People Power Party members from the so-called October generation.

Surapong and Newin are close allies even though they run separate factions. Samak commands his 30 MPs as leverage to maintain his leadership. If Thaksin departs Thailand for good, the four factions will try to preserve the status quo within the People Power Party and try to wait out the expiration of the five-year ban after which Thai Rak Thai executives can resume political activities.

For Samak, his job is to make his leadership last as long as possible. This is his last hurrah before going back into retirement.

For Thais, the political melodrama involving Thaksin will forever remain a cliffhanger - turmoil wreaking havoc but villains never identified and punished.

- The Nation

[hammered]

Courts might soon send Thaksin packing for England

Thursday's verdict against Pojaman Shinawatra is not simply about the tax-evasion case, but it also has far-reaching implications for the political scene.

The dreadful facial expression of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra as the verdict against his wife was delivered was a tell-tale sign that this was a defining moment in his life. Known for his devotion to family, Thaksin will definitely do everything in his power to ensure that his wife Pojaman never serves a day of her three-year jail term.

This does not mean he will try to tamper with the judiciary. He may well, however, take advantage of the final option remaining to him to break free from his legal troubles and that is to relocate his family to England.

Like many world leaders unwanted in their home countries, Thaksin can live a peaceful life in London. It is not imperative for him to apply for asylum. He is expected to keep busy by running Manchester City Football Club.

Under Thai law, Thaksin and Pojaman may remain fugitives for the rest of their lives, but that is a reasonable price to pay in exchange for a fresh start. The alternative is imprisonment with a glimmer of hope for a royal pardon.

When Thaksin ended his self-imposed exile in February, he may have harboured a secret hope that the People Power Party's election victory could translate into his triumphant return. He found himself caught up in legal wrangling because of politics, so it was reasonable that he would expect politics to rescue him from trouble. Unfortunately things failed to go according to plan.

The People Power Party has plunged into the political quagmire and now barely remains afloat. Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej proved to be a hard-headed proxy. And the judiciary turned out to be an impregnable fortress. The excitement of the People Power Party's election victory quickly faded. The government was preoccupied with its problems, hence it was not in a position to get Thaksin out of his legal entanglements.

Although every court battle involving Thaksin and his wife has political overtones, the judicial review is based strictly on pertinent factual and legal issues. The tax-evasion case involving Pojaman provided clear proof that the judiciary cannot be swayed by sentiment.

From start to finish, the evidence shown during trial indicated a clear-cut case for conviction. And the Criminal Court found no cause to grant leniency in sentencing.

The defence can hope to overturn the conviction by appellate review, though the odds are stacked against such a move being successful. The next court battle will focus on the Ratchadaphisek land case involving Thaksin and Pojaman. The graft case, which is being tried in the Supreme Court, is expected to conclude this month or early next month if there are delays. The prosecution's evidence is strong, and a conviction is looming a few months following trial. Since the case is being fast-tracked, the judicial review is one tier and Thaksin will have no chance to appeal.

If Thaksin is to relocate his family, he must do so soon, preferably before the conclusion of the land case in order to get permission to travel abroad.

Preparations might already be under way for relocation. Thaksin is disengaging himself from the People Power Party. If the latest Cabinet reshuffle is any indication, Samak has gained a firmer grip on the People Power Party while Thaksin is fading out. A few months ago, no one would have believed that Samak could win the loyalty of more than 30 MPs from the Northeast.

Although the Isaan Pattana faction has dissolved itself, its MPs still retain a loose alliance with Samak out of gratitude for his allocation of a Cabinet seat.

Of course, Thaksin still wields formidable influence over the People Power Party. But he appears to delegate more and more decisions to be made among the four powerful factions. The People Power Party is on track to seeing itself run by collective leadership.

The factions are led by Newin Chidchob for MPs from the lower Northeast, Sudarat Keyuraphan for Bangkok MPs, Sompong Amornwiwat and Yongyuth Tiyapairat for MPs from the North and Surapong Suebwonglee for People Power Party members from the so-called October generation.

Surapong and Newin are close allies even though they run separate factions. Samak commands his 30 MPs as leverage to maintain his leadership. If Thaksin departs Thailand for good, the four factions will try to preserve the status quo within the People Power Party and try to wait out the expiration of the five-year ban after which Thai Rak Thai executives can resume political activities.

For Samak, his job is to make his leadership last as long as possible. This is his last hurrah before going back into retirement.

For Thais, the political melodrama involving Thaksin will forever remain a cliffhanger - turmoil wreaking havoc but villains never identified and punished.

- The Nation

The last part on the factions is quite interesting. If and it is a big if Thaksin withdraws from poltical life, who will be willing to fund the PPP. It will take deep pockets to keep such a large party together and how many truly wealthy peopel want to get down and dirty right now. It may be that the PPP will split into two or three regionally based parties if Thaksin withdraws.

[baanthale]

And all I am saying is that if it's JUSTICE we are looking for, there should be a lot more people in these court rooms, not only the Thaksins.

When Democrats were embroiled in a petty land scandal in Phuket they resigned themselves. and set a standard.

Did they have a choice? You sound like they resigned due to their goodness. As I understand it, it was due to that Chuan appointed one of the land scandal attendents to be a minister in their government, and that only a few day's after scandal came out! As I see it, they had to resign! Looks like a typical case of "we see what we like to see, and not really like things really are" Nevermind, I know your views on this, and I do not share them.

[wolfmanjack]

When i first came here it was explained to me that the "Army Mafia" was the most powerful force in thailand. Then came the "Police Mafia" and then the "Mafia Mafia". My father was at the night bazaar in Chiang Mai when a police officer walked up and shot a vendor right in front of him. My dad was like "what the hel_l was that?" Another vendor told my father that person did not pay so he was made an example of for the rest of the vendors. Right after that happened a few army personal were stationed at he night bazaar. I still see one guy with a beret keeping an eye on things.

So you are saying that it might go back to the army and police extracting protection money from businesses? I am already paying some tea money but i would hate for it to get out of control.

It all depends on one's point of view I suppose. I've always found that it's the police that have more business interests, and the army a distant second. In Cholburi though for example, you'll find plenty of navy folks who have a lock on the underworld and a light but significant grasp of the legal business world (and it seems that just about every land title that passes before me has plenty of navy ranks as part of the owner history on the back of the deed), for a long time controlling much of the smuggling going on, later to be shared with the police. That said, I've always felt that all of these institutions have always been the tools of (and thus at the mercy of) the various business elements of society, but legal and illegal -both organized and informal criminal groups-, mostly because the former (police, army, navy, etc.) aren't as capable of/adept at transferring their wealth and power from generation to generation as 'civilians' are.

Very interesting. An Army general I once knew hated the police. I am not sure why but he said the army and the Police have never gotten along with each other. This was back in 1995 though so maybe it is different now. It sounds like the same can not be said for the navy if they are sharing with the police.

I do not have the money at the moment to take advantage of any situation that may occur so it is just an interesting subject at this time for me. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

[NanaFoods]

When i first came here it was explained to me that the "Army Mafia" was the most powerful force in thailand. Then came the "Police Mafia" and then the "Mafia Mafia". My father was at the night bazaar in Chiang Mai when a police officer walked up and shot a vendor right in front of him. My dad was like "what the hel_l was that?" Another vendor told my father that person did not pay so he was made an example of for the rest of the vendors. Right after that happened a few army personal were stationed at he night bazaar. I still see one guy with a beret keeping an eye on things.

So you are saying that it might go back to the army and police extracting protection money from businesses? I am already paying some tea money but i would hate for it to get out of control.

It all depends on one's point of view I suppose. I've always found that it's the police that have more business interests, and the army a distant second. In Cholburi though for example, you'll find plenty of navy folks who have a lock on the underworld and a light but significant grasp of the legal business world (and it seems that just about every land title that passes before me has plenty of navy ranks as part of the owner history on the back of the deed), for a long time controlling much of the smuggling going on, later to be shared with the police. That said, I've always felt that all of these institutions have always been the tools of (and thus at the mercy of) the various business elements of society, but legal and illegal -both organized and informal criminal groups-, mostly because the former (police, army, navy, etc.) aren't as capable of/adept at transferring their wealth and power from generation to generation as 'civilians' are.

Very interesting. An Army general I once knew hated the police. I am not sure why but he said the army and the Police have never gotten along with each other. This was back in 1995 though so maybe it is different now. It sounds like the same can not be said for the navy if they are sharing with the police.

I do not have the money at the moment to take advantage of any situation that may occur so it is just an interesting subject at this time for me. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Yes, interesting.

I know an ex border patrol soldier who can't stand the police as well.

[Heng]

Very interesting. An Army general I once knew hated the police. I am not sure why but he said the army and the Police have never gotten along with each other. This was back in 1995 though so maybe it is different now. It sounds like the same can not be said for the navy if they are sharing with the police.

I do not have the money at the moment to take advantage of any situation that may occur so it is just an interesting subject at this time for me. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Oh, I didn't mean they were sharing like friends. Sharing as in the way the army and police "share." They tolerate each other for the most part. The saying by business folks is "the police count cash, the army counts whisky bottles." The police supposedly enforce (or not) the law over every square meter of the country. The army typically only has sway over the border areas and anywhere that they have bases/camps. Some army folks try to freelance in police territory, and the police are also annoyed when their own investigations or interests get stonewalled by the army (say some army guy kills a guy on the street... and then goes and hides out on an army base somewhere; or perhaps a group of soldiers are manufacturing counterfeit Johnny Walker Black Label on one of their bases... the police have an idea, but often can't access the base), ...hence the hard feelings. Business families small and large get the last laugh though, because they often have been sending family members into all areas: gov't service, the private sector, educated abroad, through the police academy, into the army, etc., so they have an 'in,' usually minor, but sometimes beneficial, in overlapping areas. And very rarely will you find someone more loyal to the police, army, CAT, PTT, electric company, the court system, etc. more than they are to their own family.

And quite all right, I certainly find it more interesting than 'she'll never spend a day in jail' vs. 'the messiah has come, change is upon us!'

p.s. My 'play' is: she'll never spend a day in jail NOR will she have to live in self imposed exile abroad; worst case will be pretend exile, ala Kamnan Poh or Asavahame (maybe he's really hiding out in Cambodia; haven't heard anything otherwise... but KP is definitely still in Cholburi), where no one will be making an ACTIVE effort to apprehend out of 'respect'

Edited August 2, 2008 by Heng

[sriracha john]

A courageous and excellent start to begin the long road to seeking justice in the Kingdom of Thailand.

it is terrible.

his wife has only obviously helped out her husband.

It's terrific.

It's been asserted on many occasions that it's actually Potjaman who literally and figuratively wears the pants in that family.

wears the pants in the family = rules the roost

Thaksin's 'conscience' gets 3 years

The photo says it all. Former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra looks troubled. A complete contrast to the usually confident man.

Mr Thaksin and his wife, Madam Pojaman, leave the court in Bangkok yesterday. -- Picture: AFP

Now, look at his wife, Madam Pojaman Shinawatra - unruffled and calm.

All the more surprising since Pojaman, 50, has just been sentenced by a Thai court to three years' jail for tax evasion involving millions. She is out on 5million baht ($200,000) bail pending an appeal.

But that is the Thaksins for you.

Whenever Thaksin, 58, has been in trouble or has needed to get a deal done, his wife takes care of it. He also calls her his conscience and she rules the roost, so to speak.

When Panthongtae, the family's eldest son, was young, he saw his parents working night and day without resting. He complained: 'Mum, when are we going to get rich?'

He did not say: 'Dad, when are we going to get rich?'

Thaksin himself bears this out.

'No matter how important I have become, I always listen to her,' Thaksin once told reporters while he was still prime minister.

It is no wonder she is often called 'The Mistress', reported Reuters.

Pojaman was born in 1956, the youngest of four children of the former Assistant National Police Chief. Despite being the youngest, her father entrusted her to manage the family's money. She allocated the daily expenses to her siblings. She started her education at the prestigious St Joseph Convent School, where she first met Thaksin, who was a friend of her brother. She went on to study arts in the US, where Thaksin was studying for his doctorate. They married in Thailand in 1976 and had three children - Panthongtae, Pintongta, and Praethongtan.

Pojaman played a major role in helping Thaksin build up a small computer business into a telecoms empire that became known as Shin Corp. Thaksin is now worth US$400 million after Thai authorities froze more than US$2 billion of his family's assets pending the corruption cases against him. Pojaman's ability to read people's minds is legendary. Once Pojaman needed to get a deal done by a senior bureaucrat, so she tried to find out his favourite gift. The senior bureaucrat was known to be crazy about neckties and had scores of them in his closet. But she bought him one in a colour that floored him, said The Nation.

Pojaman, always perfectly coiffed and dressed in sharp tailored suits, has a management style that endeared her to people working in Shin Corp. According to an AFP report, senior managers of Shin Corp would be richly rewarded for their performances. Pojaman never forgot to give them cash or cheques in return for their efforts. If a manager needed a company car and he really deserved it, she would ensure he got it. When he became prime minister, Thaksin relied on Pojaman to resolve feuding within his Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thais) party. The reason: She played a key role in the creation of Thai Rak Thai. She supported Thaksin's passion for politics. All the close aides of Thaksin are in fact aides of Pojaman. One cannot get close to Thaksin, or become a member of his inner circle, without the screenings by her, reported AFP. She sat beside him during the important meetings of the Thai Rak Thai Party as she was its largest donor. In fact much of the billions of dollars that Thaksin earned through Shin Corp was actually held in her name. She even owned the glass-and-steel high-rise where TRT once kept its party headquarters.

But Thaksin's fall after a coup in September 2006 has left her - as well as her brother and two of her children - in the sights of corruption-busters.

She is also under investigation in a slate of corruption cases, including one over Thaksin's sale of Shin Corp to Singapore's Temasek Holdings in January 2006.

- Electric News

[sriracha john]

Thaksin daughters say Potjaman feels better

Pinthongta Shinawatra, daughter of ex-PM Thaksin, said her mother Potjaman is feeling better now after she was found guilty in tax evasion case.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=129228

================================================================================

I'm glad that the Criminal Court was able to ease her troubled conscience.....

Edited August 2, 2008 by sriracha john

[Samuian]

Thaksin daughters say Potjaman feels better

Pinthongta Shinawatra, daughter of ex-PM Thaksin, said her mother Potjaman is feeling better now after she was found guilty in tax evasion case.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=129228

================================================================================

I'm glad that the Criminal Court was able to ease her troubled conscience.....

Sure this not the Thai Remake of Faulty Towers?

I love it and they will ensure the show goes on..with some "honest lies".

Future Shows:

CASES AGAINST THAKSIN FAMILY

Case one: Abuse of power related to purchase of state land by his wife. Who: Thaksin and his wife. Status: Trial underway

Case two: Abuse of power linked to government lottery scheme. Who: Thaksin and several former Cabinet ministers. Status: Case accepted by Supreme Court

Case three: Abuse of power related to state loan to Burma alleged to have benefited family business. Who: Thaksin. Status: Case accepted by Supreme Court

Case four: Concealing assets. Who: Thaksin, wife and two others. Status: Awaiting court decision on proceeding to trial

Case five: Tax evasion. Who: Members of Thaksin's family. Status: Pojaman Shinawatra and her brother jailed for three years, her secretary for two years

Several other claims also lodged

Edited August 2, 2008 by Samuian