Visa Options......

[andyadam]

OK, here we go....

A good friend of mine has been here for just over 5 years on a retirement Visa. It has now come to extesion time again but due to a substantial investment he's now dropped below the 800K for the extension.

So what are his options.....

He's over 50

Married to A Thai

Has a daughter

3 years of extensions in his passport

no pension or income (hence the investment)

He can do the 400K (for an 'O') but reluctant to leave LOS.

Now my memory may be wrong but I seem to remember something about being over 50 to live with a Thai child doesn't require proof of income........??

Ideas appreciated.

[Lite Beer]

OK, here we go....

A good friend of mine has been here for just over 5 years on a retirement Visa. It has now come to extesion time again but due to a substantial investment he's now dropped below the 800K for the extension.

So what are his options.....

He's over 50

Married to A Thai

Has a daughter

3 years of extensions in his passport

no pension or income (hence the investment)

He can do the 400K (for an 'O') but reluctant to leave LOS.

Now my memory may be wrong but I seem to remember something about being over 50 to live with a Thai child doesn't require proof of income........??

Ideas appreciated.

He cannot get an extension based on Marriage with 400,000 Baht . He, his Wife or both will need 40,000 Baht a month salary

There is an option of an extension if over 50 and the legal father of a Thai Child. A lot of Immigration officials are reluctant to do this but it is possible. Although the rule says no money needed , they do like to see something in your account.

[Maestro]

...Now my memory may be wrong but I seem to remember something about being over 50 to live with a Thai child doesn't require proof of income........??

That’s correct. Paragraph 7.17(5) of Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549 applies. Not all immigration offices may be familiar with this new rule (new since October 2006) and if Jomtien does not feel comfortable with it your friend may have to apply in Bangkok.

--

Maestro

[andyadam]

OK, here we go....

A good friend of mine has been here for just over 5 years on a retirement Visa. It has now come to extesion time again but due to a substantial investment he's now dropped below the 800K for the extension.

So what are his options.....

He's over 50

Married to A Thai

Has a daughter

3 years of extensions in his passport

no pension or income (hence the investment)

He can do the 400K (for an 'O') but reluctant to leave LOS.

Now my memory may be wrong but I seem to remember something about being over 50 to live with a Thai child doesn't require proof of income........??

Ideas appreciated.

He cannot get an extension based on Marriage with 400,000 Baht . He, his Wife or both will need 40,000 Baht a month salary

There is an option of an extension if over 50 and the legal father of a Thai Child. A lot of Immigration officials are reluctant to do this but it is possible. Although the rule says no money needed , they do like to see something in your account.

Sorry Lite, I meant the 400K to apply for an 'O' in somewhere like Sing....Thanks for the info, at least it proves I'm not going mad!!!!!

[andyadam]

...Now my memory may be wrong but I seem to remember something about being over 50 to live with a Thai child doesn't require proof of income........??

That’s correct. Paragraph 7.17(5) of Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549 applies. Not all immigration offices may be familiar with this new rule (new since October 2006) and if Jomtien does not feel comfortable with it your friend may have to apply in Bangkok.

--

Maestro

Thanks Maestro, very helpful and I know what you mean about Jomtien!!

[lopburi3]

FYI: 400k does not obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa from Singapore anymore. But it would work in KL with the normal marriage certificate/id card/home register/birth certificate proof.

[NotNew2You]

What is his nationality? This can be important when "proving" income for a retirement visa extension.

[andyadam]

What is his nationality? This can be important when "proving" income for a retirement visa extension.

He's a Brit but he has no income to prove!!!!

[andyadam]

FYI: 400k does not obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa from Singapore anymore. But it would work in KL with the normal marriage certificate/id card/home register/birth certificate proof.

When did that one change!!???? I've got my last 3 non imms from there, the last one about 6 months or so ago, what are they asking for now if the 400K in the bank is no good??

As far as I was aware the 400K/40K thing was something they asked for but not a requirement for a Visa just a condition of an extension.

[lopburi3]

The 400k option ended in 2006 except for those already using that system. The new requirement is 40k family income (can be husband/wife or both).

[andyadam]

The 400k option ended in 2006 except for those already using that system. The new requirement is 40k family income (can be husband/wife or both).

But that's for an extension of stay rather than the Visa it's self isn't it???? I know about the 2006 changes but in Sing, they wanted to see cash in the bank and /or earnings to a total of 400K and the cah can be anywhere not just in Thailand, I fell short on the cash in the bank by about 30K but showed earnings of a couple of million for the year and got the Visa no problem.

[CosmicSurfer]

[quote name='Lite Beer' post='2184171' date='2008-09-01 15:59:41'

He cannot get an extension based on Marriage with 400,000 Baht . He, his Wife or both will need 40,000 Baht a month salary

There is an option of an extension if over 50 and the legal father of a Thai Child. A lot of Immigration officials are reluctant to do this but it is possible. Although the rule says no money needed , they do like to see something in your account.

According to Paragraph 7.17(6) of Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549 linked to above, if he has 3 years of extension already, then he can use the 400,000 baht in the bank basis. (Look at the continuation on the top of the next page.) The issue is wether they will allow him to apply his Retirement Extension to a Married extension.

The new part is that the money can be in an account with either party, or even a joint account.

Live & Learn

CS

Edited September 1, 2008 by CosmicSurfer

[CosmicSurfer]

Humm....

Quoting Paragraph 7.17 of Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549 linked to above

(3) In the case of a spouse, the

marital relationship shall be de

jure (legitimate) and de facto;

OR...

(6) In the case of an alien married

to a Thai woman, any party or

both must have a total income

of not less than Baht 40,000 per

month... etc...

Just how do these situations differ.. aside for a demand for income... Shouldn't an Alien married to a Thai woman qualify under Number (3), WITHOUT any income?????

Note that this situation says clearly "OR" not "and".

And where is the rule regarding an Alien married to a Thai MAN ????

(Tsk TSk.... No "D" word here.)

The Confusion never ceases.

CS

[lopburi3]

The 400k option ended in 2006 except for those already using that system. The new requirement is 40k family income (can be husband/wife or both).

But that's for an extension of stay rather than the Visa it's self isn't it???? I know about the 2006 changes but in Sing, they wanted to see cash in the bank and /or earnings to a total of 400K and the cah can be anywhere not just in Thailand, I fell short on the cash in the bank by about 30K but showed earnings of a couple of million for the year and got the Visa no problem.

Yes but Singapore no longer issues multi entry visas so showing an account there is no longer an option either.

[Maestro]

CosmicSurfer, that is a mistake in the immigration bureau’s translation. After clause (5) there should be no “or”. Sunbelt’s translation got it correct:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...er_Oct_2006.pdf

See the original Thai text for confirmation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...ce%2Frtp606.pdf

--

Maestro

[CosmicSurfer]

CosmicSurfer, that is a mistake in the immigration bureau’s translation. After clause (5) there should be no “or”. Sunbelt’s translation got it correct:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...er_Oct_2006.pdf

See the original Thai text for confirmation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...ce%2Frtp606.pdf

--

Maestro

Well I'll have to wait for my wife to get home from work to check the original Thai, but even Sunbelt's translation shows the "OR" after clauses 3 & 4, clause 5 showing neither an "or" nor an "and".... supporting my point in then above post, and still leaving me confused about the application of Clause 3.

Seems clear enough to me... Married legally and registered (the only way to have a legal marriage in Thailand), plus living together, should get you a Visa... No Money required.

I do, however, see the difference in translation regarding the 400,000 baht.... so this doesn't help the OP.

Unless he has the 40k Monthly income......

Or he applies under clause (3) ?????????

CS

PS... My wife has arrived home and she just translated the section for me... and she agrees... there is no "and" after section (3) only "or"... The law is all about the words... Why doesn't anyone sue?

PPS... My wife now is trying to convince me that (6) is a seperate clause and they don't need an "and or "or"... a typically Thai misunderstanding of the importance in correct wording in legal interpretations...

I wish I was a lawyer... or had the money to hire one.

CS

[digitalchromakey]

CosmicSurfer, that is a mistake in the immigration bureau's translation. After clause (5) there should be no "or". Sunbelt's translation got it correct:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...er_Oct_2006.pdf

See the original Thai text for confirmation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...ce%2Frtp606.pdf

--

Maestro

Well I'll have to wait for my wife to get home from work to check the original Thai, but even Sunbelt's translation shows the "OR" after clauses 3 & 4, clause 5 showing neither an "or" nor an "and".... supporting my point in then above post, and still leaving me confused about the application of Clause 3.

Seems clear enough to me... Married legally and registered (the only way to have a legal marriage in Thailand), plus living together, should get you a Visa... No Money required.

I do, however, see the difference in translation regarding the 400,000 baht.... so this doesn't help the OP.

Unless he has the 40k Monthly income......

Or he applies under clause (3) ?????????

CS

PS... My wife has arrived home and she just translated the section for me... and she agrees... there is no "and" after section (3) only "or"... The law is all about the words... Why doesn't anyone sue?

PPS... My wife now is trying to convince me that (6) is a seperate clause and they don't need an "and or "or"... a typically Thai misunderstanding of the importance in correct wording in legal interpretations...

I wish I was a lawyer... or had the money to hire one.

CS

Law needs logic 7.17 Criteria (1) .... and (2) ..... and [(3) ... or (4).... or (5).... ] Then (6)

Note that there is no and/or after (5)

So you must meet (1) AND (2) AND ((3) OR (4) OR (5)) AND (6)

Edited September 1, 2008 by digitalchromakey

[CosmicSurfer]

Law needs logic 7.17 Criteria (1) .... and (2) ..... and [(3) ... or (4).... or (5).... ] Then (6)

Note that there is no and/or after (5)

So you must meet (1) AND (2) AND ((3) OR (4) OR (5)) AND (6)

Just looked again... There is No "and" and no "then" after number (05)....

Wishing doesn't make it so....

Using this logic, then the invisible 'and' that you want to apply to number (3) would apply equally to number (4) which is a clause for children. Do they need 40k and a Thai wife too?

Still confused

CS

[Maestro]

It’s like digitalchromakey put it. Structured, it looks like this:

(1)

and

(2)

and

(3) or (4) or (5)

and

(6)

If anybody gets confused, you are in good company. Even immigration officers have difficulty understanding some parts of that document. I have witnessed this myself.

--

Maestro

[digitalchromakey]

Law needs logic 7.17 Criteria (1) .... and (2) ..... and [(3) ... or (4).... or (5).... ] Then (6)

Note that there is no and/or after (5)

So you must meet (1) AND (2) AND ((3) OR (4) OR (5)) AND (6)

Just looked again... There is No "and" and no "then" after number (05)....

Wishing doesn't make it so....

Using this logic, then the invisible 'and' that you want to apply to number (3) would apply equally to number (4) which is a clause for children. Do they need 40k and a Thai wife too?

Still confused

CS

(6) Starts off "In the case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife .... "

So (6) obviously, Per Se, does not apply to (4)

It does however apply to (5), if you are also over 50 and the father or mother of a Thai AND you are married to a Thai. Otherwise those over 50 and married with children could avoid the 40K family income criteria.

Sorry CS - the logic is admittedly complex, but it's clear; in this instance your wife is correct and you are as you said 'still confused'

[NotNew2You]

What is his nationality? This can be important when "proving" income for a retirement visa extension.

He's a Brit but he has no income to prove!!!!

OK...if US citizen, no need to "prove" any pension income.

[Lite Beer]

According to Paragraph 7.17(6) of Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549 linked to above, if he has 3 years of extension already, then he can use the 400,000 baht in the bank basis. (Look at the continuation on the top of the next page.) The issue is wether they will allow him to apply his Retirement Extension to a Married extension.

CS

This kind of answers your question.

However, I got the married extension for 3 years , changed to the Retirement option then changed back again last year. 400,000 in the bank needed.

(6) In case of the applicant who is

married to a Thai wife, one of them

or both of them need to have the

total annual income that is

averaged out not less than 40,000

Baht per month. Except for the case

that the said foreign national has

entered Thailand before this Order

is enforced and the foreign national

has been permitted to stay in the

Kingdom by the result of having

married to a Thai wife, then if the

applicant does not have the said

income, then, the latest 3 months

records of the account book of any

Bank in Thailand with the account

name of either or both parties need

to have the amount of money not

less than 400,000 Baht.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Lite Beer

[CosmicSurfer]

(6) Starts off "In the case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife .... "

So (6) obviously, Per Se, does not apply to (4)

It does however apply to (5), if you are also over 50 and the father or mother of a Thai AND you are married to a Thai. Otherwise those over 50 and married with children could avoid the 40K family income criteria.

Sorry CS - the logic is admittedly complex, but it's clear; in this instance your wife is correct and you are as you said 'still confused'

Yes... This is my point exactly.... The way the regulation is written provides for it.

I'm sorry, but I believe in "the letter of the law"... and that means the WORDS that are written, as they are written.

I accept the reality of Thai manipulation to make the law conform with whatever reality that touches their fancy of the moment. But it is too trying and stressful to never be sure what exactly will happen when you obey every regulation, as written, provide every document, as required, and STILL have issues develop due to the bias and predjudices of whichever offical decides to create their own rules.

I accept that we here try and understand and keep up with the devolving regulations that never seem to coalesce into a coherent and stable situation.

But how will this society ever grow up and learn some maturity if it is never held to the rules they themself write and create, and the ambiguities resulting... Cause and effect... Consequences of their actions... or lack of attention to the results of their ignoring the details. This in turn translates to all aspects of the society... including the screwed up attitude towards education.

I stand by the letter of the law and regulation as WRITTEN, not as interpreted by any other persons. There is NO "and" written regarding article (6). That is black and white.

It is too bad that no Court will ever Rule on this, and clear it up juristically.

Maybe if the Thai Supreme Court, actually took up the ambiguities in the Laws and Regulations, As written, society here would finally start to be more responsible, not only to us foreigners, but more importantly, to All the people under the responsibility of the government....

To Serve and Protect...

CS

[LivinLOS]

...Now my memory may be wrong but I seem to remember something about being over 50 to live with a Thai child doesn't require proof of income........??

That’s correct. Paragraph 7.17(5) of Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549 applies. Not all immigration offices may be familiar with this new rule (new since October 2006) and if Jomtien does not feel comfortable with it your friend may have to apply in Bangkok.

--

Maestro

Yes as well as the over 50 support of a Thai child, another little known one seems to be the support (or is it dependency) of a child thats Farang or Thai thats in an expensive school. This does not need to be over 50.

My buddy who is late 30's maybe early 50's, has his kid into the expensive school system here, they get the kid an ED visa and he gets a non imm O through that too. The non imm O is I think piggy backed onto the childs ED. I think he showed them half a mil in the bank but I dont know if thats a set requirement a fixed amount or at the officers discretion, fact is he wouldnt have a problem with any relative amount he just had 500k in there at the time.

Apologies of thats all vague, he doesnt explain it clearly as the school deals with it all for him. But thats the gist. Under 50, kid in posh school on ED visa money in bank to support the kid.

[Maestro]

LivinLOS, we are getting off topic here, the topic being a change from retirement extension to an extension to live with Thai child. The situation you are talking about is the extension as a dependent, covered by clause 7.10 of Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549:

7.10 In the case of a family member of an alien who has been permitted to stay temporarily in Thailand for study in an educational institution as set out in clauses 7.7 or 7.8 (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted child or the child of his/her spouse): Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

--

Maestro

[phuketrichard]

2 years ago in Phuket id di not have the 800,000 for my retirmewnt exetension. I have a thai daugher so applied for having a thai child.

Phuket and asked for 500,000 in the bank ( 3 months in advance) and copies of BC and house paper. I got a 30 day extension as this extension needs to be approved in Bangkok ( where a retirment extension can be done at local office) 3 weeks later went back and got the remianed of the year extension.

The LAW as i understand it is you dont need to show money but must show u can priovide for ur child and phuket takes 500,000 asd proof

[HorseDoctor]

Humm....

Quoting Paragraph 7.17 of Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549 linked to above

(3) In the case of a spouse, the

marital relationship shall be de

jure (legitimate) and de facto;

OR...

(6) In the case of an alien married

to a Thai woman, any party or

both must have a total income

of not less than Baht 40,000 per

month... etc...

Just how do these situations differ.. aside for a demand for income... Shouldn't an Alien married to a Thai woman qualify under Number (3), WITHOUT any income?????

Note that this situation says clearly "OR" not "and".

And where is the rule regarding an Alien married to a Thai MAN ????

(Tsk TSk.... No "D" word here.)

The Confusion never ceases.

CS

Yes it's very telling that these rules are geared toward men marrying women, very few western women are going to get married for a visa i.e.

The entire system seems to revolve around this marriage to a Thai arrangement.

When I went to Phuket Immigration, I had a clue that I could qualify for an investor visa ( while still available ) It was like pulling teeth to get any informaiton. The woman actually suggested fraud , " Get married" . I just kept asking and asking and finally she came out with a sheet of paper with the investor visa requiremnets, and it was easy to get .

Why are they so ...stupid and incompetent. It's like they're stuck in 7th grade...Recommending marriage, I'd rather chew off my left arm than marry a Thai. ( Cook , clean, cook, screw. Clean....cook, screw. Clean...ad infinitum...)

Then I realized single, western women aren't welcome, perhaps we're seen as competition for the Thai women but really there's no contest, the women are so lovely and subserviant.

Yes this is paradise- for men only .....

Please I need a cargo plane for 4 horses that I will not abandon here!!!!

[madi]

OK, here we go....

A good friend of mine has been here for just over 5 years on a retirement Visa. It has now come to extension time again but due to a substantial investment he's now dropped below the 800K for the extension.

So what are his options.....

He's over 50

Married to A Thai

Has a daughter

3 years of extensions in his passport

no pension or income (hence the investment)

He can do the 400K (for an 'O') but reluctant to leave LOS.

Now my memory may be wrong but I seem to remember something about being over 50 to live with a Thai child doesn't require proof of income........??

Ideas appreciated.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are correct.

I stay here with my wife and two sons. I am over 50. I do not need to show any money in order to stay. My Visa was given to me here in Bangkok.

I of course need to renew each year though. I also have to report every 90 days but you all know that. I had to be at least 50 years old for this.

Anyone who says that this kind of visa is not given is mistaken. End of story.

[Lite Beer]

OK, here we go....

A good friend of mine has been here for just over 5 years on a retirement Visa. It has now come to extension time again but due to a substantial investment he's now dropped below the 800K for the extension.

So what are his options.....

He's over 50

Married to A Thai

Has a daughter

3 years of extensions in his passport

no pension or income (hence the investment)

He can do the 400K (for an 'O') but reluctant to leave LOS.

Now my memory may be wrong but I seem to remember something about being over 50 to live with a Thai child doesn't require proof of income........??

Ideas appreciated.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are correct.

I stay here with my wife and two sons. I am over 50. I do not need to show any money in order to stay. My Visa was given to me here in Bangkok.

I of course need to renew each year though. I also have to report every 90 days but you all know that. I had to be at least 50 years old for this.

Anyone who says that this kind of visa is not given is mistaken. End of story.

Good for you mate. Well done.

The problem is that a lot of offices will not issue while others want to see money in the bank.

Now that people are being told to use their local office rather than go to Bangkok they are snookered.

[andyadam]

Thanks for all your input guys, I'll let him have a read and see how he get's on..........I'll update with the outcome, he's not due to renew for 6 weeks yet!