State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[ThNiner]

Pretty convincing arguement... but it's lacking something...

People who want fair and transparent elections and wanna root out corruptly elected gov't are now seen by some on here as anti-democratic. 555555 I have to laugh.

[blaze]

I am a firm supporter of PAD and the protest....

It has always been a peaceful protest, in hopes of stopping further corruption and theft of the country to benefit a few at the top.

My wife bears the scars of the May 92 protest, when another corrupt government did the same thing to the people that were peacefully assembled. Many were killed and wounded.

The most peaceful outcome would be for word from on High to come down for Samak to find life elsewhere. I thought it would after his visit to Hua Hin last week.

RIGHT ON!!! I can't believe how many of the farangs posting on here have so little respect for the brave protesters who are standing up for a fair share of the pie, standing up to these elite few who steal from the common man. Does anybody remember the cival rights movement in America and MLK Jr. ???

More power to the PAD, which knows there never has been a Western style democracy in Thailand.

However, there hasn't ever been a Thai style democracy in Thailand, either, much less a Western one. Thais haven't been able to make any kind of democracy work since the end of absolutism in 1932. So why should we think or believe Thais could/would succeed now?

Accordingly, my point is that shallow and limited democracy in Thailand certainly cannot be compared to the USA (or Britian, or France etc).

Nor could PAD in any way be compared to the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., his Southern (U.S.) Christian Leadership Conference and the Civil Rights Movement of the post WW2 Era that Dr. King and his SCLC led.

Thailand and the United States are radically different: societies, cultures; civilizations. There isn't any parallel to be made in respect to PAD and the Civil Rights Movement in the U.S. ( a movement which is about to culminate in the election of a black man as president November 4th).

Neither TRT nor PPP compare to either of the two major political parties in the U.S. Forget any comparason what so ever, period.

STAMP

I think a better analogy might be the riots that have been taking place in that Bolivian bastion of white priviledge- Santa Cruz- where a government popular with the rural poor majority is being attacked by the urban middle and upper classes. Even the issues is analagous- constitutional reform.

[ThNiner]

I'll be joining a rally at a university this afternoon.

Not a smart thing to do right now if you ask me, a week ago? Maybe, but now?

definitely a pro PAD supporter ..

If I were an active pro PAD supporter, I would still be there. The rally is still going on. I'm not for PAD violating the law. I'm not a Sondhi's crew but I'm all for kicking out this illegitimate puppet gov't whose sole purpose of existence has been to rewrite the constitution to bail out the biggest criminal in Thai history.

[kurtgruen]

The PAD party is solely responsible for this situation, along with their military cronies who will not accept a democratic election and the merchants who are financing this sham. Thailand belongs to the people and NOT the military rich families who do not want to see a democratic Thailand, but want to maintain a nepotistic old rule, they hide behind the word Democratic but they are not democratic. I for one applaud prime Minister Samak's ruling, the military has tried everything to hinder him forming a democratically voted government. Th PAD is not democratic they are a wolf in sheep clothing... remember the military placed a curfew for many months all over Thailand at least this government offers people their opportunity and right to voice their opinion...BUT the PAD party only wants power for themselves

Another absolutely funny comment. This same gov't that was trying to amend the constitution to limit people's rights to peacefully gather for a political rally is now painted with the "democratic" light by some people here. HAhahahahah By the way, the gov't sort of withdrew the idea after some stern objections from many university Ajarns and the public.

A lot of funny stuff on here.

I hear you, ThNiner. I feel the same way. Like they are calling the PAD the Elite and Elitists, when the PAD is supported by the Unions and people from all walks of life. Some of these posters don't make any sense at all to me. Reminds me of the saying of David Brandt Berg, (Founder of the Children of God) years ago, when he said...""If you tell a lie, tell a big one, then some people might believe you"" LOL

Looks like it is up to people like us, to hold them accountable ;-)

[Splatter]

I'll be joining a rally at a university this afternoon.

Not a smart thing to do right now if you ask me, a week ago? Maybe, but now?

definitely a pro PAD supporter ..

If I were an active pro PAD supporter, I would still be there. The rally is still going on. I'm not for PAD violating the law. I'm not a Sondhi's crew but I'm all for kicking out this illegitimate puppet gov't whose sole purpose of existence has been to rewrite the constitution to bail out the biggest criminal in Thai history.

Applause to you for getting involved and standing up.

Where is the rally?

Edited September 2, 2008 by Splatter

[Sunderland]

I don't particularly support anyone in this ongoing problem. I do wonder, as many others do, how anyone can be in favour of supporting a political party, in this case the PPP, which is guilty of electoral fraud. Is there really any justifiable reason for supporting such a party under those circumstances? New elections are necessary, surely?

Please answer in a way which refrains from basically choosing the easy option which is to slag off the PAD.

Why support the PPP?

[ando]

It is incredible that after thousands of posts, some people's opinions have not changed from day one. It really shows how everyone can take a compltely different look at the same situation and once again begs the question of how are we going to solve this problem without compromise. PAD's 30-70 proposal is unacceptable, PAD's closing of airports and raiding of NBT is unacceptable. Government's insiduous corruption is unacceptable, and while they are ligitimate by election, they have certainly lost their mandate to rule (their actions regarding Cambodia has already been ruled as unconsitutional, the PM is up on at least two charges, many ministers are facing trails, they have without a doubt lost their mandate, whether they were elected or not, does not give them carte blanche - people on the anti PAD side cite how in other countries PAD would have been dispersed by force long ago, but don't forget the flip side, had the government's actions been the same in any other country, they would have been forced to resign, or shamed into resigning long ago too), DAAD's voilence was unacceptable. PAD, DAAD and the Gov are not ALL a bunch of idiots. If we don't try to see the other argument, other greviences, then we can go on for another 200 pages on this forum and not have achieved anything but venting our own grievances...which, admitedly, is why we are here, but wouldn't it be nice if we could do what the entire nation needs to do, and that is find a solution. And that means compromise. Most of my office is PAD or PAD sympathetic, about 30 percent are pro government. It has been an interesting time because we are actually talking and we even share TV time at work, so both NBT and ASTV and also impartial channels are shown.

I agree with most of what you have written.

The whole political system in Thailand needs a shake up. And I do believe this is (very) slowly happening through the court system. Certainly the judiciary are also subject to corruption on occasions also, but slowly they are turning the tide in favour of real justice. Thailand is a developing democracy with a very entrenched culture of corruption and so progress will not be as fast as some would like. And at the same time we have powerful elements within Thai society trying to turn back the tide of change. Two steps forward and one step backwards as they say. But trying to fast forward this process of change with radical new political ideas will only cause opposition and gridlock. The democratic evolution of Thailand backed up by a fair and honest court system must be allowed to progress at a pace consistent with the peoples accepted principles of social justice if it is to succeed at all. I believe the King has said that the countries future depends on a fair, honest and just court system, and I fully support that ideal. Change will come slowly. Radical change will only result in radical opposition and further (ongoing) conflict.

[ThNiner]

I hear you, ThNiner. I feel the same way. Like they are calling the PAD the Elite and Elitists, when the PAD is supported by the Unions and people from all walks of life. Some of these posters don't make any sense at all to me. Reminds me of the saying of David Brandt Berg, (Founder of the Children of God) years ago, when he said...""If you tell a lie, tell a big one, then some people might believe you"" LOL

Looks like it is up to people like us, to hold them accountable ;-)

[ThNiner]

Applause to you for getting involved and standing up.

Where is the rally?

I can give you a hint that I'm in the South rigth now.

[h90]

The PAD party is solely responsible for this situation, along with their military cronies who will not accept a democratic election and the merchants who are financing this sham. Thailand belongs to the people and NOT the military rich families who do not want to see a democratic Thailand, but want to maintain a nepotistic old rule, they hide behind the word Democratic but they are not democratic. I for one applaud prime Minister Samak's ruling, the military has tried everything to hinder him forming a democratically voted government. Th PAD is not democratic they are a wolf in sheep clothing... remember the military placed a curfew for many months all over Thailand at least this government offers people their opportunity and right to voice their opinion...BUT the PAD party only wants power for themselves

Another absolutely funny comment. This same gov't that was trying to amend the constitution to limit people's rights to peacefully gather for a political rally is now painted with the "democratic" light by some people here. HAhahahahah By the way, the gov't sort of withdrew the idea after some stern objections from many university Ajarns and the public.

A lot of funny stuff on here.

I hear you, ThNiner. I feel the same way. Like they are calling the PAD the Elite and Elitists, when the PAD is supported by the Unions and people from all walks of life. Some of these posters don't make any sense at all to me. Reminds me of the saying of David Brandt Berg, (Founder of the Children of God) years ago, when he said...""If you tell a lie, tell a big one, then some people might believe you"" LOL

Looks like it is up to people like us, to hold them accountable ;-)

I fully agree....

[nikster]

Should such a thing ever happen and you let PAD have their way, you can kiss Democracy in the Kingdom goodbye.

What Democracy? If anything has become abundantly clear over the last couple of years, Democracy isn't worth anything without the rule of the law, and without free speech and other civil liberties normally associated with Democracy. Neither of these exist in Thailand. You can vote every now and then, votes are bought and sold large-scale, there is no prosecution for obvious and huge corruption schemes on the side of the government (whoever it is at the moment)... The PPP was elected but in any normal country most of them would be in jail for either vote fraud or involvement in the many corruption cases. So what's their majority worth?

I like the PAD as a way to criticize the status quo - unfortunately they don't seem to offer any solutions. Military intervention obviously is not a solution.

Another obvious observation - if Samak was at all interested in the good of the country, he'd have stepped down ages ago. Politicians in western countries have stepped down for less. But no, he wants to become a new Thaksin, and initiate new Megaproject for himself and his family to profit from.

Interesting times.

[balo]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

[nikster]

I agree with most of what you have written.

The whole political system in Thailand needs a shake up. And I do believe this is (very) slowly happening through the court system. Certainly the judiciary are also subject to corruption on occasions also, but slowly they are turning the tide in favour of real justice. Thailand is a developing democracy with a very entrenched culture of corruption and so progress will not be as fast as some would like. And at the same time we have powerful elements within Thai society trying to turn back the tide of change. Two steps forward and one step backwards as they say. But trying to fast forward this process of change with radical new political ideas will only cause opposition and gridlock. The democratic evolution of Thailand backed up by a fair and honest court system must be allowed to progress at a pace consistent with the peoples accepted principles of social justice if it is to succeed at all. I believe the King has said that the countries future depends on a fair, honest and just court system, and I fully support that ideal. Change will come slowly. Radical change will only result in radical opposition and further (ongoing) conflict.

Amen. 100% agree.

[Thai at Heart]

I found this from Asia Times, one of Manager Groups Websites.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ID27Ae01.html

And if anyone can prove it is a spoof, I please ask the mods to remove it.

Recollections, revelations of a protest leader

By Shawn W Crispin

An interview given by Sondhi.

I don't want to copy it all because there are many references to a very respected man.

[haybilly]

Gen. Anupong's press conference was interesting. Sides shoudl negotiate. No force to move PAD. Differences between Samak and PAD up to parliament to resolve. Possible censorship or something against NBT and ASTV. Quite mild and level headed.

Actually, in a state of emergency where the PM is supposed to be the supreme commander under the constitution, the good general should be doing what he is told rather than holding a press conference to tell the government what to do. Its quite obvious the army has picked a side. The generals don't want to be handed leadership of this ailing economy again and so apparently wont mount a coup. But at the same time are prepared to sit idly by and let PAD create anarchy in the hope it will result in a change of government. About all the Army is prepared to do at this present time is to prevent DAAD from removing the PAD protesters from their illegal occupation of government property, -- which of course should be the armys job under a SOE anyway. If the army continues on this politically biased and weak course of action the state of anarchy is bound to increase. We would have a situation where the army is protecting PAD protesters from the pro government DAAD group while refusing to uphold the law and remove PAD. The army would actually be actively contributing to the problem by their refusal to act in restoring law and order.

Excellent post Ando.

I agree--I watched the General on lunchtime TV and when a foreign lady journalist asked him why the military wasn't doing the bidding of the lawfully elected Govt.--well, his answer was somewhat telling--like Ando says--right or wrong the army of any country should be following the insructions of the govt.--TIT.

[Tony Clifton]

Another election does not stop these problems. They will lose again and protest again and say "Mr. New PM is Khun Thaksil's side". How many years already? They don't care how the new person comes up by what means. They will protest until the people they like come up to be PM.

How much do you want to bet TRT-PPP will get dissolved a 3rd time for electoral fraud?

How many time are they allowed to use the lengthy judicial loop that takes forever to deal with this mafia syndicate disguised as a political party?

Edited September 2, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[sjaak327]

Pretty convincing arguement... but it's lacking something...

People who want fair and transparent elections and wanna root out corruptly elected gov't are now seen by some on here as anti-democratic. 555555 I have to laugh.

Well, I think the LOL could easily be reflected back to you. I mean IF you really believe that people like Sondhi want what you just described above, then you must be a bit naive to say the least.

He doesn't really want a fair and transparent election, and he certainly doesn't want to end corruption, he would be one of the first to pay the price, if they achieved just that.

You do know why he became anti Thaksin don't you ? Not because of his apparent corruption, but because a deal they made togehter turned sour.

Some freedomfighter.

[trigger571]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

It already has had a bad effect. I sell travel and already had 7 cancellations. 5 of which just happened today. Whats interesting is that 2 individuals also cancelled Cambodia because they are worried that if the PAD somehow manage to get into power, they might declare war on Cambodia

Edited September 2, 2008 by trigger571

[jongkolkhoo]

Applause to you for getting involved and standing up.

Where is the rally?

I can give you a hint that I'm in the South rigth now.

most of the southern people are fierce. i was warned (AS A foreigner) not to say anything bad about the things (protest) by the PAD. hinting that if i don't want to end up in the hospital, just shut up or join them supporting PAD.

most of the PAD are good people but there are also a bunch of extremist out there.

Having an extremist among my in-laws family member sure makes me fuming.

I am also in south..

[kurtgruen]

I don't particularly support anyone in this ongoing problem. I do wonder, as many others do, how anyone can be in favour of supporting a political party, in this case the PPP, which is guilty of electoral fraud. Is there really any justifiable reason for supporting such a party under those circumstances? New elections are necessary, surely?

Please answer in a way which refrains from basically choosing the easy option which is to slag off the PAD.

, sor

Why support the PPP?

Well, if you are poor, they pay you to vote, they pay you to demonstrate and such, so that might be a reason. (Of course, next week, they will collect it back with roadside police stops charging you with anything from not wearing a helmet to only wearing one thong) :-(

If you are hoping for government contracts, that will make you rich, that would be a reason to support the PPP, too.

I'm sure there must be another reason somewhere, but right now it escapes me, sorry ;-)

[kurtgruen]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

It already has had a bad effect. I sell travel and already had 7 cancellations. 5 of which just happened today. Whats interesting is that 2 individuals also cancelled Cambodia because they are worried that if the PAD somehow manage to get into power, they might declare war on Cambodia

LOL ROFL

[Publicus]

I'll take a bad government over anarchy any day.

If there is any difference between one or the other, it's only slightly discernable.

[ThNiner]

Well, I think the LOL could easily be reflected back to you. I mean IF you really believe that people like Sondhi want what you just described above, then you must be a bit naive to say the least.

He doesn't really want a fair and transparent election, and he certainly doesn't want to end corruption, he would be one of the first to pay the price, if they achieved just that.

You do know why he became anti Thaksin don't you ? Not because of his apparent corruption, but because a deal they made togehter turned sour.

Some freedomfighter.

I'm well aware of Sondhi's past. But that doesn't illegitimize anything he's been saying about TRT and PPP. You have to look at the facts themselves. Look at what Thanksin/TRT/PPP have done. Even if this gov't is thrown out, it doesn't mean that Sondhi will become the next PM or the most powerful man in Thailand. We all just want a change in our system and wanna see fair and transparent elections to ensure the better future of the country. The same old crap in Thai democracy where corruption is accepted and ignored has gotta end. We are NOT supporting PAD because of Sondhi. We are supporting their cause because this corrupt gov't is just too much to bear. We want a change. Nothing to do with Sondhi.

[ando]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

It already has had a bad effect. I sell travel and already had 7 cancellations. 5 of which just happened today. Whats interesting is that 2 individuals also cancelled Cambodia because they are worried that if the PAD somehow manage to get into power, they might declare war on Cambodia

LOL ROFL

Not too funny if you are a low class Thai relying on tourist income to feed the family.

Edited September 2, 2008 by ando

[optimjim]

So much for Democracy. I'm getting out of here while the getting is good beforethey shut down the main airport in Bangkok. I certainly don't want to be stuck here during a Revolution should it come to that.

Good idea, TerryM. I was here when General Suchinda seized power and I went to Don Muang the same evening and had to come back into Sukhumvit as most (maybe all ) flights were cancelled. Meanwhile my visa and ticket expired. Not especially convenient.

The next day there were no taxis running to the airport and while I was quietly watching strange goings on near the Nana Hotel a soldier stuck his gun in my face.

So discretion is the better part of valour.

[Crushdepth]

I agree--I watched the General on lunchtime TV and when a foreign lady journalist asked him why the military wasn't doing the bidding of the lawfully elected Govt.--well, his answer was somewhat telling--like Ando says--right or wrong the army of any country should be following the insructions of the govt.--TIT.

No, this is a constitutional monarchy and the army ultimately answers to HM as head of state, not the government. HM has made his views on use of violent measures very clear. Samak might want the army to go in with guns, gas and sticks but his instructions are subordinate.

[ThNiner]

Applause to you for getting involved and standing up.

Where is the rally?

I can give you a hint that I'm in the South rigth now.

most of the southern people are fierce. i was warned (AS A foreigner) not to say anything bad about the things (protest) by the PAD. hinting that if i don't want to end up in the hospital, just shut up or join them supporting PAD.

most of the PAD are good people but there are also a bunch of extremist out there.

Having an extremist among my in-laws family member sure makes me fuming.

I am also in south..

That's a bit of generalization imo.

[NanLaew]

How many time are they allowed to use the lengthy judicial loop that takes forever to deal with this mafia syndicate disguised as a political party?

As many times as PAD avoids registering as a political party so they can totally avoid ANY 'lengthy judicial loop'.

[frodo]

The more that the events unfold, the more I see that there is really no difference between Samak and the Junta of 2006. The EC is seeking dissolution of the PPP, including Samak, stating their deeds were illegal. Illegal activity, illegal government. According to many on the form, the military's deeds were illegal. One changed the constitution to make more accountability for elected officials, while the other is trying his best to change the constitution so nobody is held accountable. After the coup, a SOE was called, and today, Samak calls for a 90-Day SOE (very excessive IMHO). The military censored the press, and likewise, Samak has done the same today, outraging Thai media organizations.

The only difference that I can find between the two is that during the coup, there was no bloodshed. During Samak's reign, there has been plenty.

[KireB]

Not too funny if you are a low class Thai relying on tourist income to feed the family.

Well these people could of course sell their votes again. Has been quite a money generator in the past years here.