Naughty Cheats At Siam Paragon

[Maigo6]

So what you are saying just because a Foreigner may or may not have Illegal software or they may or may not be prepared to bribe a policeman, that is OK for a shop sales person to rip of a customer on the assumtion that he may or may not have done these things? Or did I miss understand?

What I am saying is this.....

Farangs are overjoyed when knowingly buying pirated software ( Illegal)

Farangs are overjoyed when doing 170 KPH in their Fortuners and bribe a Traffic Policeman 200 Baht to save them going to the police station. ( Illegal )

Yet when they are the victims of some low paid worker trying to make a few baht on the side ( The OP was perfectly happy with the whole deal, until he read FREE SAMPLE on the pack, maybe the shop worker should have blanked that out ), they reel back in absolute horror at the injustices heaped upon them in Thailand .

Edited September 10, 2008 by Maigo6

[Tyke]

If one is willing to participate in Police Corruption to benefit oneself, then how the fawk can one question anybody else's morality ?

So if you've ever bribed a policeman you can no longer judge other people's morality? I guess you have no problem with murders, rapists, pedophiles, etc..? (seeing as you can no longer question other peoples morality)?

To say I would have no problem with rape and kiddy fiddling is a little bit out of order, yet on an anonymous internet forum you have free reign to type what you want, whatever turns you on pal.

Rape and kiddy fiddling never entered my head at all, why would it enter yours ?

I was merely trying to illustrate the flaw in your logic by taking your concept of morality to the extreme end of the spectrum.

I was not saying that you actually like bad people, on the contrary i assume that you do not, which goes to prove my point.

So, would you pay a bribe that a Policeman will put straight in his pocket, or would you follow the correct procedure and pay the full ammount at the police station ?

Would you aid and abet a criminal act ( Policeman taking bribe money ) or not ?

Yes you would !!!!!!!

And YOU would do this cos it benefits YOU!!

Actually, I would pay the full fine at the police station cos it would rankle the cop - I can well afford the time and expense of rankling cops, it's just fun to me.

[zorro1]

Well ,interesting how some posters hold the moral high ground over a few 100 baht and probably will go home and grab a pirate DVD to watch tonight and perhaps listen to a pirate cd, and then check their TV updates from their PCs bought at pan tip with windows pirated latest edition.

Buying pirated cds etc at the going rate is not the same as stealing them is it? Buying it is not part of your job, is it? OK, it might have been nicked at some stage along the way, but it's not the same as someone stealing from customers who they are supposed to take care of professionally and have a certain level of trust in being served honestly.

Tyke, you need help

[monkfish]

So what you are saying just because a Foreigner may or may not have Illegal software or they may or may not be prepared to bribe a policeman, that is OK for a shop sales person to rip of a customer on the assumtion that he may or may not have done these things? Or did I miss understand?

What I am saying is this.....

Farangs are overjoyed when knowingly buying pirated software ( Illegal)

Farangs are overjoyed when doing 170 KPH in their Fortuners and bribe a Traffic Policeman 200 Baht to save them going to the police station. ( Illegal )

Yet when they are the victims of some low paid worker trying to make a few baht on the side ( The OP was perfectly happy with the whole deal, until he read FREE SAMPLE on the pack, maybe the shop worker should have blanked that out ), they reel back in absolute horror at the injustices heaped upon them in Thailand .

Is it the Farangs fault the worker is low paid? Should he be the one footing the bill?

[chivo]

thanks for the replies and contact info for siam p, whoever that was. appreciate it. i will contact them for the hel_l of it.

and to dear 'LIFEISRANDOM' , oh you poor thing, you sound so angry at the world, your life must be miserable to generate that angst, what's the matter you need a hug?

[Maigo6]

thanks for the replies and contact info for siam p, whoever that was. appreciate it. i will contact them for the hel_l of it.

and to dear 'LIFEISRANDOM' , oh you poor thing, you sound so angry at the world, your life must be miserable to generate that angst, what's the matter you need a hug?

LOL........

[Maigo6]

Is it the Farangs fault the worker is low paid? Should he be the one footing the bill?

In this case, it appears the low paid worker thought so.

[JetsetBkk]

Dear, oh dear. That's a waste of 10 minutes I'll never get back.

[Heng]

Buying pirated cds etc at the going rate is not the same as stealing them is it?

So if the store clerk was ripping of said farang at the going raite, it's all good.

Sorted.

The going rate was free, Sorted.

The overhead cost was free. The going rate for ripping off farangs (and anyone else for that matter) is whatever they are willing to pay without kicking up a fuss.

Sorted.

Ok for the streets but not where the cost is displayed and a 'free' label is attached to an item in an upmarket store. Double sorted.

A simple misunderstanding. The free sample is for the store. For the end consumer, especially one not willing to make a fuss, there's no free lunch, ...or water filter for that matter.

Sorted.

[Maigo6]

Dear, oh dear. That's a waste of 10 minutes I'll never get back.

It took you a whole 10 Minutes to type that ?

[tangcoral]

Reading the post, it seems as if the OP heard the alarm bells three times!

1) Can't pay by credit card

2) The assistant using his wallet

3) Not checking the goods

I would of created a scene if I saw him using his wallet as a cash register.

9 out of 10 times they would have handed the money back for a return of item at an establishment like that.

I am sure it would have not taken more than couple mins.

[Tyke]

Buying pirated cds etc at the going rate is not the same as stealing them is it?

So if the store clerk was ripping of said farang at the going raite, it's all good.

Sorted.

The going rate was free, Sorted.

The overhead cost was free. The going rate for ripping off farangs (and anyone else for that matter) is whatever they are willing to pay without kicking up a fuss.

Sorted.

Ok for the streets but not where the cost is displayed and a 'free' label is attached to an item in an upmarket store. Double sorted.

A simple misunderstanding. The free sample is for the store. For the end consumer, especially one not willing to make a fuss, there's no free lunch, ...or water filter for that matter.

Sorted.

??????? Like I wrote before, I bought exactly the same thing at the same place about 9 months ago and the filter came free with the device. I've never come across something labelled 'free, that was free to sell by the store. It doesn't make sense.

[Tyke]

Well ,interesting how some posters hold the moral high ground over a few 100 baht and probably will go home and grab a pirate DVD to watch tonight and perhaps listen to a pirate cd, and then check their TV updates from their PCs bought at pan tip with windows pirated latest edition.

Buying pirated cds etc at the going rate is not the same as stealing them is it? Buying it is not part of your job, is it? OK, it might have been nicked at some stage along the way, but it's not the same as someone stealing from customers who they are supposed to take care of professionally and have a certain level of trust in being served honestly.

Tyke, you need help

Well constructed argument

[lifeisrandom]

thanks for the replies and contact info for siam p, whoever that was. appreciate it. i will contact them for the hel_l of it.

and to dear 'LIFEISRANDOM' , oh you poor thing, you sound so angry at the world, your life must be miserable to generate that angst, what's the matter you need a hug?

one does not have to be miserable to take pleasure in the stupidity of others.

[Heng]

Buying pirated cds etc at the going rate is not the same as stealing them is it?

So if the store clerk was ripping of said farang at the going raite, it's all good.

Sorted.

The going rate was free, Sorted.

The overhead cost was free. The going rate for ripping off farangs (and anyone else for that matter) is whatever they are willing to pay without kicking up a fuss.

Sorted.

Ok for the streets but not where the cost is displayed and a 'free' label is attached to an item in an upmarket store. Double sorted.

A simple misunderstanding. The free sample is for the store. For the end consumer, especially one not willing to make a fuss, there's no free lunch, ...or water filter for that matter.

Sorted.

??????? Like I wrote before, I bought exactly the same thing at the same place about 9 months ago and the filter came free with the device. I've never come across something labelled 'free, that was free to sell by the store. It doesn't make sense.

??????? As mentioned earlier, the tag was mistakenly left on. Fire the store clerk, but for God's sake don't refund the customer. Priorities that make perfect sense.

[zorro1]

Well ,interesting how some posters hold the moral high ground over a few 100 baht and probably will go home and grab a pirate DVD to watch tonight and perhaps listen to a pirate cd, and then check their TV updates from their PCs bought at pan tip with windows pirated latest edition.

Buying pirated cds etc at the going rate is not the same as stealing them is it? Buying it is not part of your job, is it? OK, it might have been nicked at some stage along the way, but it's not the same as someone stealing from customers who they are supposed to take care of professionally and have a certain level of trust in being served honestly.

Tyke, you need help

Well constructed argument

I just re read your post above just to make sure. Still stand by my original diagnosis

[Tony Clifton]

well i guess it shows a degree of enterprise on their part ... and irrespective of whether you got what you paid for or not - any further action would have as much impact as a fart in a cow shed.

the volume of rip-offs, theft and corruption is a large part of what gives thailand such a bad name - and rightly so - but it's all part and parcel of the game here i guess.

to enjoy the game just treat it as one.

speaking of coffee - where can i buy PG Tips in this town?

You think exactly like a Thai and even my wife says this is the exact reason this country has gone down the shitter.

[Tyke]

well i guess it shows a degree of enterprise on their part ... and irrespective of whether you got what you paid for or not - any further action would have as much impact as a fart in a cow shed.

the volume of rip-offs, theft and corruption is a large part of what gives thailand such a bad name - and rightly so - but it's all part and parcel of the game here i guess.

to enjoy the game just treat it as one.

speaking of coffee - where can i buy PG Tips in this town?

You think exactly like a Thai and even my wife says this is the exact reason this country has gone down the shitter.

Here, here, well done! What I find funny is how some farangs in Thailand think they are such 'men of the world', with a vast knowledge and experience of the country that they excuse everything Thais do. It's the political correctness of it all that gets me. They can't stand others complaining but then they are the first to kick up a fuss when they get ripped off.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Tyke

[Maigo6]

well i guess it shows a degree of enterprise on their part ... and irrespective of whether you got what you paid for or not - any further action would have as much impact as a fart in a cow shed.

the volume of rip-offs, theft and corruption is a large part of what gives thailand such a bad name - and rightly so - but it's all part and parcel of the game here i guess.

to enjoy the game just treat it as one.

speaking of coffee - where can i buy PG Tips in this town?

You think exactly like a Thai and even my wife says this is the exact reason this country has gone down the shitter.

I'll give you a few months of depressive weather and miserable people in the UK before you're kicking and screaming to get back.

[StateSix]

How is it theft, unless the sample was removed from a product that the person had already bought, nothing has been stolen from them.

You seem a bit slow so I'll use small words.

When you sell something that doesn't belong to you ---------- That is Thievery.

Not necessarily, sales assistants do it every day all over the world. They would have to keep the payment to commit theft.

In this case I would say no theft from the shop has occurred as the assistant is authorised by them to give the item to the customer, the shop has not had any property taken from them or lost anything. There is no theft from the customer either as he willingly gave the money to the assistant in return for the item. However, the assistant has committed deception or fraud by false representation by not making clear the fact that the item is free.

Simple

[dantilley]

How is it theft, unless the sample was removed from a product that the person had already bought, nothing has been stolen from them.

You seem a bit slow so I'll use small words.

When you sell something that doesn't belong to you ---------- That is Thievery.

Not necessarily, sales assistants do it every day all over the world. They would have to keep the payment to commit theft.

In this case I would say no theft from the shop has occurred as the assistant is authorised by them to give the item to the customer, the shop has not had any property taken from them or lost anything. There is no theft from the customer either as he willingly gave the money to the assistant in return for the item. However, the assistant has committed deception or fraud by false representation by not making clear the fact that the item is free.

Simple

Sounds about right to me, well summed-up!

[LooseCannon]

Buying pirated cds etc at the going rate is not the same as stealing them is it? Buying it is not part of your job, is it? OK, it might have been nicked at some stage along the way, but it's not the same as someone stealing from customers who they are supposed to take care of professionally and have a certain level of trust in being served honestly.

Actually, I would pay the full fine at the police station cos it would rankle the cop - I can well afford the time and expense of rankling cops, it's just fun to me.

Well done. You managed to type this whilst full of self-righteous indignation & sanctimonious hypocrisy. Amazing Thailand.

[JetsetBkk]

Dear, oh dear. That's a waste of 10 minutes I'll never get back.

It took you a whole 10 Minutes to type that ?

Yeah, my knuckles are sore from beating up that dam_n store clerk at Paragon.

Actually, the best thing about this thread is the totally missed sarcasm. Whooosh!

[Furbie]

How is bribing a policeman the same crime as stealing from a shop customer?

My morality was in question.

If one is willing to participate in Police Corruption to benefit oneself, then how the fawk can one question anybody else's morality ?

As I have stated on previous threads about corruption in Thailand, Farangs love it as long as they benefit by it, yet are totally opposed to it when they don't.

Morals.....

You're havin' a laugh.

We all know where your moral center is, theft is OK for the poor. How you arrived at this is interesting belief I am not entirely sure – were you a poor thief yourself at some point and now seek to justify your previous criminal actions, or maybe you have one in your family, or is it only OK for poor Thais to be thieves? Remember, you find this action morally OK, so no insult intended.

My moral center says it’s probably ok to pay a 200 baht bribe to avoid going to the police station later, for something I probably did not do in the first place. Though I might add, I don’t have a car so your example is purely in the abstract. Frankly, I don’t agree with paying bribes, even for such a minor infraction. The problem in Thailand, of course, is that the entire system is designed for you to pay the bribe to the police officer, making it very difficult not to. Who wants to lose their id until they can get down to the police station?

[Furbie]

The second flaw in your argument is that we need to distinguish the fact that this could have happened to a Thai person as well. I agree, but the reality is it is more likely to happen to a foreigner.

Yes so it's thievery but not "racist thievery" Clapping hands

I feel so much better knowing that.

True, I do not find what the cashier did racist. Rather, I stated the criminal was taking advantage of a Westerner because they were an easier target, and even if caught, would be less likely to face ramifications. Please keep in mind, if a Thai complained about this happening to them, the situation would have been rectified and the offender likely fired. In the case of a Western victim, I am not so sure. Add to this the fact that the employee could be saying anything to the manager in their own defense, which the victim would not understand. Nevertheless, this does not make it right, and in my view makes it even more morally reprehensible. I will be posting something in the general forum shortly on this topic. Feel free to respond to my more lengthy thoughts on this topic there.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Furbie

[Furbie]

From the movie Scarface, another definition of Capitalism is F__k you. If it's immoral for someone to try to make a living by using their wits, then so be it. Let the buyer beware. I'm not sure where you draw the line, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Not when you look at what goes on in this world. We're talking about human beings here, right?

I wouldn't call this theft. In this case, the buyer was happy with everything until he saw the free sample sticker. If he'd never seen it, there wouldn't be a problem. I think in most cases, it's more embarrasement on the part of the victim than damage to his well being.

Again, this is theft. The victim in this case was the customer, and the customer had their property stolen from them and sold back to them. Because the customer did not realize it at the time and did not return to the store does not make it any less of a crime. Imagine you took your car to a mechanic to have it repaired. While there, the mechanic says a part is broken and needs replacing. You agree, the mechanic gives you a good deal and you go home. Later you find out that the piece was never broken, and in fact never even replaced. Is it less of a crime because you thought the original price was a good deal? I don’t think so.

[madjbs]

It wasn't his property unless it was removed from the box after he bought it.

[madjbs]

How is it theft, unless the sample was removed from a product that the person had already bought, nothing has been stolen from them.

You seem a bit slow so I'll use small words.

When you sell something that doesn't belong to you ---------- That is Thievery.

Not necessarily, sales assistants do it every day all over the world. They would have to keep the payment to commit theft.

In this case I would say no theft from the shop has occurred as the assistant is authorised by them to give the item to the customer, the shop has not had any property taken from them or lost anything. There is no theft from the customer either as he willingly gave the money to the assistant in return for the item. However, the assistant has committed deception or fraud by false representation by not making clear the fact that the item is free.

Simple

Exactly my point, it appears dotcom is a bit "slow" to pick up on the legalities but quick to throw silly insults.

[dotcom]

You quote yourself & then agree with yourself? Get a grip sport.

I said "You appear to be slow" is that an insult?

Now you appear to be a dolt. Keep posting & prove it.

[dotcom]

You know - before now I was thinking "well if the manager wanted to fire the miscreant that would be his choice".

But now - after reading this tripe - I would insist on it.

The little peckerwood would lucky not to be going to jail for theft.

Losing his good paying job in an air conditioned mall would be a good punishment.