Length Of The Moat ?

[SwaziBird]

I've no doubt there will be many guesses, but does anyone know the actual total length of the moat that travels around the Old City.

An accurate figure in either kilometres or miles, will be good to know

Cheers

[john b good]

I've no doubt there will be many guesses, but does anyone know the actual total length of the moat that travels around the Old City.

An accurate figure in either kilometres or miles, will be good to know

Cheers

Good question. (not sure what the question is good for though)

How accurate do you want it to be. The last mm, cm. M, or what?

If you are looking for a ballpark let's say around 5.5 - 6.0 kilometres.

Edited September 15, 2008 by john b good

[Tywais]

There was a post a few years ago where someone used his GPS and walked around the moat to get the distance. However, now you just bring up Google Earth and use the measure tool to get it.

//edit - 1.57 + 1.52 + 1.55 + 1.53 = 6.17kms on the inside of the moat 6.49kms on the outside using Google Earth.

[rishi]

In a somewhat different argument, on a somewhat different board, about how many people lived inside the moats, I recently had to to try convince the audience that there couldn't possibly live 300,000 people in those (mainly 1-2 storey high) one-family estates with a lot of empty space and temple compounds between them as revealed by the minimum 5-year old Google-photos. By means of those outdated photos, however, I came to the conclusion that the inner moat area amounts to about 2.2-2.5 sqkm. I don't know, though, if the audience were convinced about my estimates of max 30-50,000 inner-moat inhabitants, rather than the 300,000 some long time resigned male mayor were quoted for having stated and which were the figure that caused my protest on that board.

What's your guess? - How many people lives in the inner moat area (not counting high season guesthouse occupancy - just residents).

[Rice_King]

While we're on the subject... I read somewhere that there were over 100 Wats inside the old city. I have always wondered if that number was accurate.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Rice_King

[Ajarn]

I have read many publications that say the moat is 1 square kilometer.

[el jefe]

I have read many publications that say the moat is 1 square kilometer.

Proof that you can't beleive anything you read.

(6.17 / 4) squared = 2.38 sq km

[Rasseru]

I have read many publications that say the moat is 1 square kilometer.

How can one measure length in square anything? For example, how many square centimeters tall are you?

[PeaceBlondie]

I have read many publications that say the moat is 1 square kilometer.

How can one measure length in square anything? For example, how many square centimeters tall are you?

Rasseru, good morning. The post is probably shorthand for the area within the moat being 1.0 sq. km. He said it poorly, though. 2.5 square kilometers, not even a square mile. Filled with low-storey buildings, govt. offices, empty lots, lots and lots of wats, businesses, etc. No, not even 200K residents would fit in there. Maybe not 100K.

[Boksida]

I have read many publications that say the moat is 1 square kilometer.

It's very close to 1 sq. mile (1.6km on each side) which is strange because I don't think Imperial measurements were ever used in Thailand.

[Rasseru]

I have read many publications that say the moat is 1 square kilometer.

How can one measure length in square anything? For example, how many square centimeters tall are you?

Rasseru, good morning. The post is probably shorthand for the area within the moat being 1.0 sq. km. He said it poorly, though. 2.5 square kilometers, not even a square mile. . . . .

Good morning, PeaceBlondie. You may be right. I took the observation to be in response to the question posed by the OP, which concerns the length of the moat.

[Priceless]

I have read many publications that say the moat is 1 square kilometer.

How can one measure length in square anything? For example, how many square centimeters tall are you?

Rasseru, good morning. The post is probably shorthand for the area within the moat being 1.0 sq. km. He said it poorly, though. 2.5 square kilometers, not even a square mile. Filled with low-storey buildings, govt. offices, empty lots, lots and lots of wats, businesses, etc. No, not even 200K residents would fit in there. Maybe not 100K.

According to Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Mai_Metropolitan_Area ) the population of amphur Mueang, which of course covers a lot more than the old city, is 243,014 people. Makes me think there are probably not more than 20,000 - 30,000 people in the old city

/ Priceless

Edited September 16, 2008 by Priceless

[sylviex]

I have read many publications that say the moat is 1 square kilometer.

How can one measure length in square anything? For example, how many square centimeters tall are you?

Rasseru, good morning. The post is probably shorthand for the area within the moat being 1.0 sq. km. He said it poorly, though. 2.5 square kilometers, not even a square mile. Filled with low-storey buildings, govt. offices, empty lots, lots and lots of wats, businesses, etc. No, not even 200K residents would fit in there. Maybe not 100K.

According to Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Mai_Metropolitan_Area ) the population of amphur Mueang, which of course covers a lot more than the old city, is 243,014 people. Makes me think there are probably not more than 20,000 - 30,000 people in the old city

/ Priceless

There could be quite a few in the moat .

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I have read many publications that say the moat is 1 square kilometer.

Seems that one look at Google Maps beats reading a lot of publications. ( It's actually close to 1 square mile, as the sides are all around 1600 meters, roughly 1 mile.)

As for the population of 300K, I assume that's a miscommunication too; some people in their heads think that muang district = the old town. I recently corrected a Wikipedia entry on that even.

So for Muang district I think 300K residents is fairly accurate, thought this possibly only includes people who are actually registered on their ID cards and/or house registration documents; all the migrant workers in all the apartment blocks in Santitham et al probably aren't in that number. I don't know that for a fact though, but fortunately neither does anyone else.

[SwaziBird]

A fascinating, even if not particularly active thread.

Thanks for both the info and the entertainment.

Cheers

[Rotweiler]

Ok - the variances in opinions got me interested... so I drove it today.

Taking the outside roads, it is exactly 6.5 km around the moat.

Taking the inside roads, it is exactly 6.1 km.

Complex math would suggest the moat is the average of the two - so 6.3 km.

A fascinating, even if not particularly active thread.

Thanks for both the info and the entertainment.

Cheers

[dingdongrb]

I wonder how deep is the moat, or perhaps how many fish live in the moat?

dam_n....I wonder what use this thread is going to really provide anyone except perhaps some trivia knowledge.

As for how many people live inside the old city, 'all of them'.

[Blinky Bill]

All this talk about a well known statistic.......

The moat has always been 4 miles long, each side being 1 mile long.......1 square mile. That's 1.61 kilometers x 1.61 kilometres......2.592 square kilometers or 259,200,000 square meters or 2,592 hectares. That is equal to 6,410 acres. Now if you were in the area around Goodooga on the border of Queensland and New South Wales in Australia you could support about 6410 sheep during a reasonable seaon. You might get about 1/10th of that figure to survive during a bad season if you were lucky. If you were grazing sheep in the Birregurra area of Victoria you could probably get away with at least 65,000 sheep on this same sized block of land.

If you were in New Zealand you could probably get away with double the Victorian figure as well as a few of the prettier ewes living in the house for special functions on a daily basis. But that's another story.

Re the depth......it varies. Strange fact but true. There are lots of fish in the moat and many people have died in there over the years. One or 2 have ended up dead in the moat after leaving the Spotty not to mention many other places on the perimeter.

There are a few dead ones within the walls as well.

Edited September 17, 2008 by Blinky Bill

[dingdongrb]

All this talk about a well known statistic.......

The moat has always been 4 miles long, each side being 1 mile long.......1 square mile. That's 1.61 kilometers x 1.61 kilometres......2.592 square kilometers or 259,200,000 square meters or 2,592 hectares. That is equal to 6,410 acres. Now if you were in the area around Goodooga on the border of Queensland and New South Wales in Australia you could support about 6410 sheep during a reasonable seaon. You might get about 1/10th of that figure to survive during a bad season if you were lucky. If you were grazing sheep in the Birregurra area of Victoria you could probably get away with at least 65,000 sheep on this same sized block of land.

If you were in New Zealand you could probably get away with double the Victorian figure as well as a few of the prettier ewes living in the house for special functions on a daily basis. But that's another story.

Re the depth......it varies. Strange fact but true. There are lots of fish in the moat and many people have died in there over the years. One or 2 have ended up dead in the moat after leaving the Spotty not to mention many other places on the perimeter.

There are a few dead ones within the walls as well.

The the point of question was how many 'live' there...

And just quite curious, this sheep fetish, what brings this on? Hmmmmmmmmm

[Priceless]

All this talk about a well known statistic.......

The moat has always been 4 miles long, each side being 1 mile long.......1 square mile. That's 1.61 kilometers x 1.61 kilometres......2.592 square kilometers or 259,200,000 square meters or 2,592 hectares. That is equal to 6,410 acres. Now if you were in the area around Goodooga on the border of Queensland and New South Wales in Australia you could support about 6410 sheep during a reasonable seaon. You might get about 1/10th of that figure to survive during a bad season if you were lucky. If you were grazing sheep in the Birregurra area of Victoria you could probably get away with at least 65,000 sheep on this same sized block of land.

If you were in New Zealand you could probably get away with double the Victorian figure as well as a few of the prettier ewes living in the house for special functions on a daily basis. But that's another story.

Re the depth......it varies. Strange fact but true. There are lots of fish in the moat and many people have died in there over the years. One or 2 have ended up dead in the moat after leaving the Spotty not to mention many other places on the perimeter.

There are a few dead ones within the walls as well.

Most enlightening. My sincere thanks, dear Sir!

/ Priceless

[Blinky Bill]

All this talk about a well known statistic.......

The moat has always been 4 miles long, each side being 1 mile long.......1 square mile. That's 1.61 kilometers x 1.61 kilometres......2.592 square kilometers or 259,200,000 square meters or 2,592 hectares. That is equal to 6,410 acres. Now if you were in the area around Goodooga on the border of Queensland and New South Wales in Australia you could support about 6410 sheep during a reasonable seaon. You might get about 1/10th of that figure to survive during a bad season if you were lucky. If you were grazing sheep in the Birregurra area of Victoria you could probably get away with at least 65,000 sheep on this same sized block of land.

If you were in New Zealand you could probably get away with double the Victorian figure as well as a few of the prettier ewes living in the house for special functions on a daily basis. But that's another story.

Re the depth......it varies. Strange fact but true. There are lots of fish in the moat and many people have died in there over the years. One or 2 have ended up dead in the moat after leaving the Spotty not to mention many other places on the perimeter.

There are a few dead ones within the walls as well.

Most enlightening. My sincere thanks, dear Sir!

/ Priceless

Always happy to serve dear friend.

[Blinky Bill]

And just quite curious, this sheep fetish, what brings this on? Hmmmmmmmmm

Nothing in particular but you might be interested in this WEBSITE which has many, many NZ subscribers

[dingdongrb]

And just quite curious, this sheep fetish, what brings this on? Hmmmmmmmmm

Nothing in particular but you might be interested in this WEBSITE which has many, many NZ subscribers

I checked it out and it didn't interest me. I couldn't find one that was willing to put her back legs into my knee high boots while allowing me to push her towards a cliff..... but I'll keep searching as I'm sure new members are continuously signing up.

[Mapguy]

Oy! A very curious thread!

Once, someone asked me how far around the moat is, and I responded about 1.5 km (after eyeballing the Google Earth map). Well, it does depend on which dimension you measure, but 1.5km does pretty well. The "sensible" answers (aside from use the measuring tool on Google Earth, a good suggestion) I have seen so far range from 1.525 - 1.609 km. Inside on the road? Outside? Swimming down the middle? Inside wall? Outside wall? All good questions, depending upon how precise you want to be, but!

I am glad to see that at least one good historian (quote about GPS measurement) posted, and one good scientist posted what he drove (Never mind how good his odometer is or how many songtao he had to circumnavigate!). Frankly, I am not inclined to walk it or to swim it myself and thank them for their effort.

I suppose, once upon a time, that someone actually surveyed the moat, but I don't think that information is readily available --- unless someone wishes to......

never mind!

In the meantime, "How deep is the ocean; how high is the sky..!"

[sabaijai]

While we're on the subject... I read somewhere that there were over 100 Wats inside the old city. I have always wondered if that number was accurate.

Wondering where you read that. There are supposed to be around 30 wats in the old city.

[Tywais]

While we're on the subject... I read somewhere that there were over 100 Wats inside the old city. I have always wondered if that number was accurate.

Wondering where you read that. There are supposed to be around 30 wats in the old city.

36 active temples within the old city area (based on a Google search).

[slapout]

The prize goes to 1 square mile guesstimates (each side=1 mile in length-+ a few wobbly steps and cutting of curves while driving etc). I also always wondered how and why it comes out so close to a 1 mile measurement, maybe ancient Siam had a similiar measurement. Blinky you must have been doing some of the figures thru the bottom of a mug of something you added a didget I reckon. A square mile (section in okie terms) is 640 acres-+ a section is 640 acres on the first of line of sections of a township with subsquent sections being smaller due to earth curviture. direction of loss will depend on if north or south of equator. To answer the next question? the correction is seen every 6 miles when section line roads jog back to a full 6 mile mark (that is for the inquistive Blinky). Maybe we can get the city employees to measure the moat with their measureing wheels which they use to measure lenght of flower beds, electric line needed, etc.

[slapout]

Since the number of temples was brought up, can someone tell me how and who determines where temples are placed? I used to think it was due to Thais not wanting to walk too far, but temples were constructed when that was the only mode of transport so that theory would not work too well. If there are 36 active temples within the klong that works out to a temple about every 270+- meters. Think I will go to the Mad Dog, think about this troubleing question, and get some expert input. Where is Blinky when you really need him?

[Blinky Bill]

The prize goes to 1 square mile guesstimates (each side=1 mile in length-+ a few wobbly steps and cutting of curves while driving etc). I also always wondered how and why it comes out so close to a 1 mile measurement, maybe ancient Siam had a similiar measurement. Blinky you must have been doing some of the figures thru the bottom of a mug of something you added a didget I reckon. A square mile (section in okie terms) is 640 acres-+ a section is 640 acres on the first of line of sections of a township with subsquent sections being smaller due to earth curviture. direction of loss will depend on if north or south of equator. To answer the next question? the correction is seen every 6 miles when section line roads jog back to a full 6 mile mark (that is for the inquistive Blinky). Maybe we can get the city employees to measure the moat with their measureing wheels which they use to measure lenght of flower beds, electric line needed, etc.

Well done Slappers. You were the only one to spot the intentional error I put into my earlier post.

As you correctly noted, the real area is 2.592 sq. kms. or 259 hectares or 641 acres. The correct number of sheep should be around 6,400 if there were good feed there. Could you imagine 64,000 sheep running around the old city within the confines of the moat.

[StevieH]

is it not true that the moat is longer around in the daytime than it is at night? always takes me longer to ride around it in the day for some reason.