800.000 Due Nov.but € Low Now. How To Push Out Payment?

[Jingthing]

Well, I am a US citizen and I wouldn't commit the crime of lying to my embassy and I dare say most of us wouldn't do that. Also consider that Thai immigration knows about the liberal policy of the US embassy and has the option at any time to demand additional proof of the income stated in the embassy letter. Actually, they can demand that of any national, and I have no idea whether they target Americans more than others.

Would the US prosecute? I don't know. Would the embassy share this info with the IRS? I don't know. I do know that these days even the credit card companies are reporting claims of income to the IRS. For example, many people lie to credit card companies to obtain credit cards or get larger credit limits.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[torrenova]

I dare say that most of us don't see it as a crime and couldn't give a monkeys hoot about saying blah blah on some oath. Oath to what ? Sorry I think it is a joke.

It amazes me that of all the countries I know something about the USA guys are the most concerned about the IRS, government, etc. when a little knowledge puts everything way way beyond their reach.

Big Brother has certainly claimed th minds of many of our cousins from across the pond. 1984 et al.

[GungaDin]

In defense of the Septics, I think you will find the majority of Yanks are very law abiding.

The consequences are dire if caught being naughty.

Think about the Cal law, 3 offenses and you get life in prison.

Sentences in Aus, UK etc are very light compared to the US.

and we have little respect for authority, in fact, we don't give a rat's arse in Aus.

[Maestro]

1. The debate about making or not making a false sworn statement to a US consular official is off topic because the OP has stated that he has the required income.

2. The immigration offices know that the US consulates usually do not verify the existence of the income and for this reason they sometimes ask the applicant for extension of stay for supporting documents regarding the income.

--

Maestro

[wokkawombat]

1. The debate about making or not making a false sworn statement to a US consular official is off topic because the OP has stated that he has the required income.

2. The immigration offices know that the US consulates usually do not verify the existence of the income and for this reason they sometimes ask the applicant for extension of stay for supporting documents regarding the income.

--

Maestro

I get a letter from the Australian Government department paying my pension stating the amount. The Australian Embassy requires this before signing and stamping my Statuary Declaration outlining my pension income for Immigration. They, Immigration look at it and my bankbook but return the document.

John

[Erich]

Immigration will certainly want to see a bank book with some money in it, but NOT the full 65K a month.

Does anyone have some experience with the Immigration in Hua Hin ? I moved from the South to Hua Hin, in Sungai Kolok I had no problems to renew my retirement visa, but I'm a little bit concerned about the Immigration in Hua Hin.

Thanks and have a nice day

Erich

[hansunger]

i would like to ask again: if your thai bank account shows the 800.000 in another currency than Baht, the immigration would accept it?

somebody must have tried that before.

[bottleymike]

The majority of Consulates require some kind of proof of the income . It's only the USA that hands this out without any proof.

Also a regular Swift transfer would not be very cost affective at £20/30 a time.

As regards the transfer by swift costs, these may be avoidable.

I believe that if you have a HSBC offshore premier account in Jersey, Isle of man or Guernsey, they will transfer free of charge to any other HSBC account free of charge.

There is one HSBC branch in Bangkok, where you could transfer money to.

Then if you transfered 65K baht per month equivelent, you could have Thai bank book proof of income for the Thai immigration officers.

If this method suits, you can look into it on the HSBC offshore website.

[Kaojai]

Any clever and legal suggestion how to push out the due date of the 800.000?

Great thread discussing ways to get around the rules.

I suppose in a few months Immigrations will have taken note of any suggestions made and we can all express cynical surprise to see implementation of further proof requirements regarding income or bank deposits.

I wonder if the expression, shooting oneself in the foot, is understood amongst the farang philosophers who meet here regularly.

[Lite Beer]

I wonder if the expression, shooting oneself in the foot, is understood amongst the farang philosophers who meet here regularly.

It doesn't appear to be which is one reason the 3 month rule was instated in the first place.

People bending the rules.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Lite Beer

[thaibear1]

I stand corrected then.When i went to Samui immigration for my 3rd 90 day report i asked them if i needed my money in A/C 3 months before renewing my retirement visa(2nd year of renewing)and they said no,just 1 month before.

I had heard it was only the first time of getting an extention that the money needed to be in a/c 3 months before.

Every Immigration Office will have a different requirement. Especially Samui who are a law unto themselves.

YES they do as Hua Hin Immigration too. They just consider the exchange rate to THB on the day you apply. Money is money and mine is in Bangkok Bank which easy supply a account information.

[gk10002000]

As I am considering retiring to Thailand at some point, this has been an interesting thread. I do have to say that 800,000 baht is only about 25,000 USD, depending on what Thai Baht conversion number you want to use. If one is retiring to another country, I don't see that as being a really high risk amount of money to put into that country. I would prefer to keep all my money right where it is in my own country and banks (USA) and transfer money to Thailand as needed, and I would prefer to use the 16,000 baht monthly income test, but even then I hate to keep moving money around and around and always trying to show that. In my case, lots of my income would be coming from municipal bonds, mutual fund dividends, and IRA withdrawals and would NOT be a constant income stream but would go in bunches. That might be difficult to explain, as there is no "monthly" steady income. Over the course of one year, the amounts are well known, but that does not mean I could convey that to the Thai authorities. Besides, that would give them more insight into my financial portfolio then I would want to tell them.

In summary, I think that putting $25,000 into the country I was retiring in should be considered a cost of doing business and kind of like a deposit or down payment. Not really lost, just put aside and probably not earning much income on it. Put that into a separate Thai account and never, never, never touch it! The risks of jeapordizing your retirement are just too great.

[ubonjoe]

You are off a bit on the income requirement it should be 65,000. (typo?)

You don't really have toshow that much to immigration for proof of income just whatever is needed to satisfy your countries requirements are to get the income letter from the consuslate.

You can put the 800,000 into a long term CD which would earn a bit more interest.

Edited October 12, 2008 by ubonjoe

[gk10002000]

Yes. sloppy typing. 65,000 baht. I make a lot of money off of my investments, but they definitely don't come evenly or monthly. When I start taking withdrawals from my Retirement accounts, those definitely won't be even or monthly as I may sell off some stocks when the time is right. This has been a good thread.

I would also comment on that other poster who mentioned big brother and 1984. It is not that we in the USA are paranoid, but the fact is the USA has implemented some very strict laws since 911. The congress passed many facets of the so called "patriot act" that while useful in many cases to track criminal activity and fight terrorism, gives the government an awful lot of oversight. here are some examples.

1. any bank transaction over 3000 dollars triggers bank "suspicous activity reports"

2. the US postal service requires you to fill out a long form if you buy more than 3,000 in money orders in one day.

3. credit cards and bank records are routinely scanned as part of employment processes.

4. Our internal revenue service (IRS) the tax guys, have almost dictatorial powers. They can take people to a special tax court that is outside the normal civil courts. They can sieze property and money on presumption of guilt as can many of the police forces. That is one of their squeeze plays. They consficate everything as "evidence" then take you to court.

I have seen some very distasteful changes in the USA. I was an eagle boy scout, was an Air Force Captain, and I am ashamed of many of the thougts and policies of the USA government. Still a pretty good place to live, but personal liberties have taken a very big hit in the last decade. Cameras everywhere, drug tests everywhere, surveillance everywhere. I happen to have a Security clearance so I don't do anything illegal anyway both by my nature and my jobs, but I still object to a lot of things here. That is why I enjoy Thailand so much. For the one or two months of a year I go there, I forget about everything in the USA and just relax on vacation.

[ubonjoe]

I certainly don't know all the requirements of all the Embassies regarding the "income letter". I can say I know the US system regarding the letter of income. For us to receive this notarized letter all that is necessary is for us to stand in front of a consulate rep and swear that the information we provide on this affidavit is true and correct.

The most important sentence for me on this affidavit is that I swear the funds I receive monthly from the US Government and/or other sources is equal to $XX.xx dollars. The wording does not specify what the source is. It does not say pensions or any other specific thing. It only states "other sources".

Now taking that wording and using it to your advantage we should see that if you have a bank account in the USA and you have money in that account that can be transferred to Thailand a person could legitimately set up a regular transfer system from this USA bank account to the Thai bank account. The transfer method could be an ATM withdrawal and then deposit to a local bank or a swift transfer the goal is the same and that is to show a regular income of the required funds. This method would satisfy the requirement of having the needed 65k a month income for the retirement extension. Immigration does not care what the source of the funds is. They do not care if it is from a pension, investment income, or a business in the US or whatever. They only want proof that the applicant has at least 65k a month coming in to live here in LOS.

I would prefer to use the 16,000 baht monthly income test, but even then I hate to keep moving money around and around and always trying to show that.

Did you read the quoted post. I think it could apply to your cituation.

Thailand awaits you.

Good luck and enjoy life.

Joe

[Maestro]

... Immigration does not care what the source of the funds is. They do not care if it is from a pension, investment income, or a business in the US or whatever. They only want proof that the applicant has at least 65k a month coming in to live here in LOS.

No, immigration does not want proof that the applicant has minimum 65k coming into his bank account in Thailand. In the context of the extension rules “income” does not mean “come into Thailand”. It means earnings.

To the poster who is concerned because his income from investment does not come evenly every month: the declaration on the affidavit can be for an average monthly income.

--

Maestro

[Carib]

Any clever and legal suggestion how to push out the due date of the 800.000?

Great thread discussing ways to get around the rules.

I suppose in a few months Immigrations will have taken note of any suggestions made and we can all express cynical surprise to see implementation of further proof requirements regarding income or bank deposits.

I wonder if the expression, shooting oneself in the foot, is understood amongst the farang philosophers who meet here regularly.

Well, If they do read all this, than maybe they also read about every office having it`s own rules, and do something about that too.

But I don't think they will, either read this or change the separate office rules.

[IMA_FARANG]

The majority of Consulates require some kind of proof of the income . It's only the USA that hands this out without any proof.

Also a regular Swift transfer would not be very cost affective at £20/30 a time.

Yes, the U.S. consulate does not require written financial proof of income.

However, as it has been pointed out, the declaration you make of your income is a notarised statement.

It is sworn before the U.S. consul, and attested to. It has the status of a legal document, and any deliberate deception or mistatement is a violation of federal law, and can subject you to legal consequences under U.S. law.

Just so everyone knows. As the Thais say, "up to you".

[Imkah]

... Immigration does not care what the source of the funds is. They do not care if it is from a pension, investment income, or a business in the US or whatever. They only want proof that the applicant has at least 65k a month coming in to live here in LOS.

No, immigration does not want proof that the applicant has minimum 65k coming into his bank account in Thailand. In the context of the extension rules “income” does not mean “come into Thailand”. It means earnings.

To the poster who is concerned because his income from investment does not come evenly every month: the declaration on the affidavit can be for an average monthly income.

--

Maestro

Exactly! Allthough I am not an Immigration officer on the sly, I am quite sure that if you opt for showing the 800K instead of monthly income, the same reasoning applies. Showing the officials documentation of ownership of offshore assets worth Baht 800.000,- will secure your visa. They're not asking you to spend the 800K, - all they want is proof you can support yourself!

Forget the cap with the shade backwards: shower, shit and shave properly, dress up and all will be fine if you can prove you are a woman or man with assets or income slightly above the lower middle class of Thailand. Shouldn't be too hard.

I do not enjoy every minute of my life here, but I do appreciate the way I am welcomed, as my Thai wife appreciated her stay in my country for 7 years.

And sitting on the front steps of our town-house in Bangkok, watching the children playing outside at dusk, planning dinner from whatever truck with fruit, vegetables and meat might come by, give or get a massage, cherishing a good single malt before I of economical restraints retard to Roy Pipers which is acceptable with enough water and ice, I know that I love Thailand and Bangkok. And in my Thailand, never has an Immigration officer been a problem as long as I adress her/him properly, and can prove that I have assets according to the Governments moderate expectations.

This I actually believe to be true for 90% of applicants. The problems are sometimes due to misunderstandings, sometimes to officials who have no idea of what they are doing, but as often as not methinks that gross farangs with an attitude and possibly dirty underwear can blame themselves.

No Mickey Mouse! just prove your assets. And enjoy. Get frustrated, get a life, and find out if this is where you want it to be.

[Mario2008]

Offshore assets do not count towards the 800,000 option. The rule and practise is that they want to see it in a bank account in Thailand.

[Fidelius]

I can understand the reasoning of Thaiphuket as I also did not want to extend on the basis of 800k and had no monthly income. In the end I found a roundabout solution and am happily on my retirement extension now.

[jfchandler]

That's indeed what the rule says... 800k in a bank IN Thailand....

[gk10002000]

Offshore assets do not count towards the 800,000 option. The rule and practise is that they want to see it in a bank account in Thailand.

So, some posters say offshore assets worth 800,000 Baht do not count, while others say the 800,000 Baht must be in Thailand.

I will have about $800,000 USD so I don't see much of a problem, and I would NOT move that to Thailand. But I would still have little problem putting 800,000 Baht into a Thai Bank, maybe a CD and just leave it. Take it with me if and when I leave Thailand. I don't like "dead" money as I am sure I can do better things with it than having it languishing in a low interest Thai bank account, but as I mentioned earlier, I would consider it just a cost of doing business and would not really cost me much and it may make some Thai official happy.

Thanks to the fellow that said "monthly average" income can be sworn to. If I use a time frame of one year, and average over that, I would have no problem meeting the monthly income requirement either.

[Lite Beer]

The fact is that 800,000 Baht has to be in a Thai bank for 3 months before you apply. That is a fact.

Once you have applied you can do what you want with it.

If you apply for a O-A Visa in your own country the money can stay in your own country.

If you can show the 65,000 Baht income this would be better for you.

[torrenova]

Isn't it also true that the 800k has to be "liquid" and thus available for spending ? You cannot tie it up for say 12 months or longer to gain more interest ?

Wasn't there also some issue raised about people who just left 800k parked in a bank account and spent other money ?

[jfchandler]

There was a discussion here recently about so-called Thai bank time deposits, which are similar to U.S. CDs.... I gather, though, there is at least one notable difference between the two. With a U.S. CD, you're pretty well locked into keeping the money in the account to term, or face typically a very substantial $ penalty.

But for Thai time deposits, you can withdraw portions of the money early, and the only effect is to reduce your interest earnings to those of a regular savings account (instead of the higher time deposit rate). Depending on the terms right now, Thai bank time deposits are paying in the 2.5% to 4% range...

Actually, now that the U.S. federal reserve keeps cutting domestic interest rates, those percentages are not so much different that what U.S. banks are typically paying for regular savings and CD accounts.

To address the question above, though, in the recent TV discussion, I don't believe there was anyone who with any authority said time deposits would not be acceptable for satisfying the 800K retirement funds obligation, and there were others who said they knew of no reason it wouldn't be acceptable.

After all, the time deposit money would be in a Thai bank, and actually it would be accessible, even though the immigration rules don't have any requirement about the 800K funds needing to be "accessible."

[astral]

Any clever and legal suggestion how to push out the due date of the 800.000?

Great thread discussing ways to get around the rules.

No-one suggested anything illegal here,

just "thinking outside the box".

It is illegal procedures that put this 3 month rule in place.

[warriors]

As I am considering retiring to Thailand at some point, this has been an interesting thread. I do have to say that 800,000 baht is only about 25,000 USD, depending on what Thai Baht conversion number you want to use. If one is retiring to another country, I don't see that as being a really high risk amount of money to put into that country. I would prefer to keep all my money right where it is in my own country and banks (USA) and transfer money to Thailand as needed, and I would prefer to use the 16,000 baht monthly income test, but even then I hate to keep moving money around and around and always trying to show that. In my case, lots of my income would be coming from municipal bonds, mutual fund dividends, and IRA withdrawals and would NOT be a constant income stream but would go in bunches. That might be difficult to explain, as there is no "monthly" steady income. Over the course of one year, the amounts are well known, but that does not mean I could convey that to the Thai authorities. Besides, that would give them more insight into my financial portfolio then I would want to tell them.

In summary, I think that putting $25,000 into the country I was retiring in should be considered a cost of doing business and kind of like a deposit or down payment. Not really lost, just put aside and probably not earning much income on it. Put that into a separate Thai account and never, never, never touch it! The risks of jeapordizing your retirement are just too great.

This is the CORRECT thinking about living here it is not really a great deal to lose if the banks go belly up and if it goes belly up after 6 months then you only have 400,00 gone. I bet most on here have lost much more that that lately in the share markets of the world.

So get a life or do not come to retire here. Thailand want people like the above. Oh and myself

Bring on the flames I wont bite back or reply.

Keep smiling