Cambodia Threatens War With Thailand Within 24 Hours

[hardy1943]

This is becoming a joke, the sad thing is innocent young soldiers on either side could die because some prats want to keep face.

The poor and young risk their life while the wealthy and powerful try to fill their pocket. Actually this applies to every Country.

[geriatrickid]

No, it will be a Turkey shoot, and Everyone knows it,

You got that right; There's a good article in the Phnom penh Post about the poor state of the Cambodian military

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/200...med-Forces.html

One of the highlights is the equipment inventory

Tanks T-55 tanks and PT-79 light amphibious tanks from Russia, Type 50 tanks and Type 62/63 light tanks from China, and AMX-13 light tanks from France. Aircraft No fighters, no ground attack aircraft, a few former Eastern block transport helicopters, around a dozen MI-17s and MI-8 planes. Light arms Howitzers from Russia and the US, shoulder-fired SAM-7 rockets. Lacks medium and long range offensive support weapons (artillery)

One question that no one has answered though; the 3 big military aid donors to cambodia are China, Australia and France. I'm sure that they have advisers on the ground. What happens to them if Thailand decides to send over a few planes to bomb Cambodia? Cambodia is friends with Vietnam and I wonder what the reaction will be? A border war won't do much for Thailand's tourism industry, but it would sure benefit Vietnam's.

Edited October 14, 2008 by geriatrickid

[Scott]

Unfortunately, logical thought isn't a prerequisite for going to war. It would be nice if they thought about the consequences, some of which may be much worse than tourism.

[thaifever2007]

I'll bet $100 on Cambodia. The odds are 2 to 1 at the moment.

[whatsoever]

Well said Chief! No such thing as a good war.

What about the British movie: 'Oh, what a lovely war' - it was actually base on fact!

[dude007]

I'm flying to PP today - first time there.

Being based in Thailand I'm now wondering if I should postpone. I do actually want to be able to return here!

It might be nationalistic rhetoric and an attempt to intimidate, but "war" isn't a word you should bat around lightly.

Bugger.

That's not a problem! I am even driving my Thai registered FORTUNER to Sihanoukville (often all alone) and never faced any problem at the border or in the country. I go next week. I still didn't drive up to Phnom Penh and would perhaps not do it at this moment. You never know: "who plays with fire can burn his fingers..."

But everyone would be surprised to know how well these border people (Thais and Khmers) are understanding each other. At that level there will never be a problem; they need each other for their daily life and supports. It's all coming from upperhand whilst the press is taking its responsibility too!

[george]

Cambodian ultimatum: PM meet military brass on border disputes

BANGKOK: -- Thai Prime Minster Somchai Wongsawat called the country's military brass to meet Monday afternoon to assess the ongoing Thai-Cambodian border disputes after bilateral talks between the two nation's foreign ministers failed to reach agreement.

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen reportedly issued an ultimatum to Thailand to withdraw troops from the disputed border by noon.

Mr. Somchai said before the weekly cabinet meeting Tuesday morning that he had invited the military commanders to meet at 2.00 pm (1400 hours) to discuss how to ease the tension between the two neighbouring countries.

The prime minister said he had telephoned to keep in touch and discuss the issues with his Cambodian counterpart from time to time and he believed that the two countries could eventually find the best solution together.

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Sompong Amornvivat, who met his Cambodian counterpart Hor Namhong Monday morning in Phnom Penh for border talks, said the border disputes could be settled via bilateral mechanisms.

He advised that the two countries' leaders should discuss the issue.

Heated words were reported by Associated Press which quoted Mr. Hun Sen, Cambodia's prime minister as having issued an ultimatum to Thailand to withdraw its troops from the disputed area by noon Tuesday or face a "life-and-death battle zone."

Mr. Hun Sen accused Thai troops of advancing on a border area called Eagle Field near the temple in an attempt to occupy Cambodian land, it said.

Meanwhile, Thailand's Cambodian border provinces were tense following the Khmer premier's warning.

Thai rangers were on high alert at the Ta Muen and Ta Kwai temples in the northeastern province of Surin bordering Cambodia after finding hundreds of Cambodian troops reinforcements in Banteay Ampil district of Oddar Meanchey province just 20 kms from the Ta Muen temple.

Cambodian military personnel were observed to be carrying heavy weapons.

Meanwhile, another unit of Khmer troops were approaching Ta Kwai Temple.

Thailand's Second Army Area Command affirmed that every step that the Thai military personnel had taken was in Thai territory, but as a precautionary measure, the army had ordered its personnel and civilian volunteers on alert, but there were no movements of forces.

At Si Sa Ket province, the army warned villagers along the border to be prepared for evacuation while the military units were preparing their arms.

The public was warned to avoid travel to the Phra Vihear vicinity for their safety.

In Chantaburi, Thai and Cambodian traders rushed to finish their business as they feared that the border pass may be closed if a clash occurs.

-- TNA 2008-10-14

[freitag1]

Humans s#ck... I hate seeing such primitive thinking of people who were elected to lead a country. I have no idea who is wrong or right but both countries leaders act like stupid kids.

Edited October 14, 2008 by freitag1

[wrecker]

If war, however small scale would break out, the burden and responsibility should be solely placed on the PAD. They managed (again) to screw up the livelihood of Sisaket villagers. The International court has spoken a long time ago that the land and temple belongs to Kampuchea. It must worry Chavalit. Chamlong and Prem a lot that the Thai army who is already afraid for a bunch of protestors who prevent the people's representatives from doing their work (something that would qualify in most civilized countries for a very very long prison sentence), will face battle hardened Cambodian soldiers. Even with better weapons Thailand stand to lose a lot. But it all fits perfectly in the jigsaw puzzle. luckily for the Thai people, there are numerous examples worldwide of an elite that is overrun by the masses.

[dude007]

quote

One question that no one has answered though; the 3 big military aid donors to cambodia are China, Australia and France. I'm sure that they have advisers on the ground. What happens to them if Thailand decides to send over a few planes to bomb Cambodia? Cambodia is friends with Vietnam and I wonder what the reaction will be? A border war won't do much for Thailand's tourism industry, but it would sure benefit Vietnam's.

unquote

"Cambodia is friends with Vietnam"? Did I miss some history? What do we have now? And Kampuchea Krom?

Wishful thinking!

[astral]

Right at the start of the Tourist Season, what impeccable timing.

[wrecker]

But it seems to be false alarm:

The Thai military have withdrawn.

Thailand 'pulls back' from border

Cambodia's military says that Thai troops have pulled back from a disputed border zone after its prime minister issued an ultimatum.

There was no immediate Thai confirmation of the reports which came shortly before the Cambodian deadline was due to expire.

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen had warned of a potential "battle zone".

Earlier, Thai Foreign Minister Sompong Amornvivat reportedly said that troops would not leave the area.

Singapore's foreign ministry has reportedly called for both countries to show restraint and "resolve the issue through negotiations without resorting to force".

Tension has been high since July, when hundreds of soldiers on both sides faced off only metres apart.

Temple tensions

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen had given Thailand until noon (0500 GMT) to pull out its troops but did not say what would be the consequences of failing to do so.

Cambodian army commander Brig Gen Yim Pin later said that all Thai troops had retreated and were about 1km (half a mile) from the contested territory.

He told the Associated Press that the "tense situation [had] now eased".

Thailand's foreign minister was quoted by Reuters news agency on Tuesday as telling a reporter in Bangkok: "We are in our homeland - how can they expect us to leave our home?"

The stand-off between the two countries centres on 4.6 sq km (1.8 square miles) of scrub near the 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple, which sits on a jungle-clad escarpment dividing the countries.

An international court awarded the temple to Cambodia in 1962, but land surrounding it remains the subject of rival territorial claims.

The decision by the UN in June to list Preah Vihear as a Unesco World Heritage Site reignited lingering nationalist tensions over the issue.

In early July Cambodian troops detained three Thai protesters who had entered the site illegally, sparking the military stand-off.

The two sides have already held several rounds of talks on the issue, but failed to reach agreement.

-- BBC 2008-10-14

[gk10002000]

Lets hope that Thailand leaves the area. I really hope it does not come down to a face saving standoff from the Thai military.. The ultimatum that was given just might be enough for the "government" to dig their heels in.. Let us hope not.

Being fairly well read on buddhism, I am aware of the warnings against ego and pride, and the negative consequences of them given in Buddhist teachings. I know it is hard to be passive when faced with confrontation in the real world, but I hope this situation doesn't escalate. Each country has enough problems and could spend its resources in bettwer ways than in a "war".

[Los78]

The sad thing is that if anyone recalls the PAD caused a lot of the current problems with Cambodia with their over nationalistic stance and aggressive attitude about the temple issue. Im not defending Cambodia in any way but if you look back a few months you can link the border problems to PAD rhetoric again like many other issues that are currently happening.

[Rajah]

Also because the possibility of a war can help the country to reunite.

Exactly. And there is more to it. The gvt is blamed by the PAD that they have "given up" the temple. If they do not "give up" now, the could unite with the PAD against Cambodia. And since Cambodia might begin with "measures" if Thailand does not withdraw its troups they can even say: We just shot back.

[george]

Thai govt to discuss Khmer threat this afternoon

BANGKOK: -- Thai FM says he was surprised about Cambodia's threat because Cambodia PM appeared to have no problem on border talk

Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat will chair an urgent meeting this afternoon to discuss about Cambodia's threat to start war if Thailand did not evacuate its troops from an area near the Preah Vihear Temple.

Somchai said commander in chiefs are meeting to look into details and information of the matters.

He reiterated that it is not possible for the Thai troops to withdraw from the area. "It is like you are asked to retreat from your own house," he said.

Cambodia's Prime Minister Hun Sen has threatened to start fighting if Thailand failed to evacuate its 81 troops from the Veal Intry area near the Preah Vihear Temple on Cambodian soil within 24 hours.

"The meeting of officials concerned on the matters will be held at 2pm," Somchai said.

Hun Sen issued the threat after Thai Foreign Minister Sompong Amornwiwat met with his Khmer counterpart; Hor Nam Hong, in Phnom Penh to discuss about border controversies.

Somchai quoted Sompong as saying that he was surprised that Hun Sen made such a threat after the meeting. "During the meeting, Prime Minister Hun Sen seemed to have no problems on the matters. It was surprising that he came out of the meeting room to say that," Sompong said.

Sompong told the meeting in Phnom Penh that Thailand will not have any problem to withdraw if Cambodia did the same to avoid any confrontation.

Asked whether he will telephone Hun Sen about the issue, Somchai said he will look into details and surrounding circumstances before deciding the next step.

According to Xinhua news agency, Hun Sen said after meeting with Sompong on Monday, "The Veal Intry area is the dead or alive point for us."

"The situation at the Veal Intry area is too hot. They have to remove tonight or tomorrow. If they don't remove from the Veal Intry area, war will be waged," he said.

"They entered there (Monday morning) and are deploying and camping their tents about 30 meters from our soldiers. They said they stay here only one day," he said.

"Cambodia still keep our maximum restraints and won't mind if they go back to their own stronghold," he said.

-- The Nation 2008-10-14

[mdechgan]

I don't see why the Thai military had to back down. It only gives the Cambodians more confidence in its ability to threathen Thailand. Next thing you know they will stomp on Thai soil and threaten war if the AThais don't back off. What next? Si Saket, more landmines? Let's not forget Cambodia also has many disputes with Vietnam.

[RonfromLaos]

I hope the Thais are going to totally get their buts kicked. They have stolen from the Laos and the Cambodians for years. I would not mess with the Cambodian army. They are far tougher than the "over generaled" pompous Thais.

[Jai Dee]

84 Thai troops withdraw from border after Cambodian PM issues deadline

All 84 Thai troops withdrew around 1100 a.m. (0400 GMT) from the Veal Intry area where they entered Monday after Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen issued a deadline to Thailand Tuesday, said a Cambodian senior military officer.

The officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, didn't elaborate on the withdrawal.

Hun Sen on Tuesday set 12:00 a.m. (0500 GMT) as the ultimate time for the 84 Thai troops to pull out from the Veal Intry area, about 2,000 meters west of the Preah Vihear Temple.

Both commanders have been discussing the issue since 08:30 local time Tuesday at the area, the premier told the Fourth Asia Forum, which was attended by hundreds of foreign guests and diplomatic corps.

"If the talk fails, weapon conflict will break out. But we don't want to see weapon conflict will occur," he said.

The Veal Intry area is a very important location for reaching the Preah Vihear Temple, he said, adding that the Thai troops want to cut the road to the temple.

"I told Thai Foreign Minister Sompong Amornviwat yesterday in a candid talk that he has to tell Thai premier that the Cambodian side won't bear any loss of its land to Thailand," he said.

Thailand shouldn't treat Cambodia like this, because both are members of ASEAN and neighboring countries, he said.

Cambodia and Thailand used to have good cooperation with each other, especially in the field of fighting against terrorism, he said.

"The (usual) relationship between the two sides still continues normally at this minute," he added.

On Monday, Hun Sen once asked Thailand to evacuate its troops from the Veal Intry area within 24 hours, and warned of war otherwise.

"The Veal Intry area is the dead or alive point for us," he told reporters at the Cambodian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation after meeting with visiting Thai Foreign Minister Sompong Amornviwat.

"The situation at the Veal Intry area is too hot. They have to remove tonight or tomorrow. If they don't remove from the Veal Intry area, war will be waged," he added.

The Veal Intry area is on the Phnom Trap hill side, approximately 2,000 meters from the west side of the Keo Sikha Kiri Svara Pagoda, which is situated on the only way leading to the Preah Vihear Temple.

In July, tensions ran high after the ancient Preah Vihear Temple was awarded world heritage status by UNESCO, angering nationalists in Thailand who still claim ownership of the site.

The tension later turned into a military confrontation, in which up to 1,000 Cambodian and Thai troops faced off for six weeks. In mid-August, most troops evacuated and just a few dozen soldiers stationed near the temple.

However, bilateral talks to discuss withdrawing troops from around the temple were postponed late August amid political turmoil in Thailand.

In October at the border area, at least one Cambodian soldier and two Thai troops were wounded during an exchange of gunfire, and two other Thai soldiers were seriously injured after stepping on a landmine.

Source: Xinhua - 14 October 2008

[phuketrichard]

guys;

a few points. I Live here in Phnom Penh after 20 years in Thailand and love it. The Khmers are a fun loving, easy going people. YES there is poverty and it is very visable.

One thing i have found from speaking with the everyday Khmer and educated ones is they dont hate the thais BUT it is quite evident that the thai's do hate them. When i went back to Phuket in July and spoke wiht my thai friends they all asked why i moved there and they could not understand my reasons or why i sided with Cambodia. Its not that i side with Cambodia but i see both sides.

AS to whom will win. Most of the Khmers up there near the border are ex Khmer Rouge and understand how to fight in the Jungle. Thia's have not fought anyone other than themselves. I bet on Cambodia.

BUT its not just about the temple area. At the same time that the map was drwan a map was drawn showing where thailand and Cambodia area meets in the bay. If the Thai's accept the temple area as Cambodia then it goes without saying they accept the area under dispute out to sea which was drawn up at the same time.

This is where the probelm lies.

You can bet Thaksin has a hand in this a bit as he is developing an island with the help of the Cambodia goverment off of Shinoukville.

Whatever happens its the locals that will get hurt

I have my thai Honda civic up here with the thai plates and have no probems ...

[DegenFarang]

Ok so I will ask the question I always ask when this stuff happens:

'Will this effect my ability to eat at McDonalds, drink on Soi Cowboy, pick up BKK uni girls or use the internet?'

[mrsouza]

As I have been led to believe the "land" in question is like the "Gaza trip" in Israeli/Palestinian territory. There is no oil, gold, agriculturally it is a waste land but, apparently, it contains the only "road" to a temple already established to be the sole property of Cambodia.

I am afraid that is not true. Here is what might be the real reasons for provoking a conflict with Cambodia.

"Cambodia has six potential fields in the Gulf of Thailand off the shore of this southern port city as well as several other fields in areas that are disputed by Thailand."

Up for grabs is the mantra of the 21st century.

[sjaak327]

Also because the possibility of a war can help the country to reunite.

Exactly. And there is more to it. The gvt is blamed by the PAD that they have "given up" the temple. If they do not "give up" now, the could unite with the PAD against Cambodia. And since Cambodia might begin with "measures" if Thailand does not withdraw its troups they can even say: We just shot back.

The point is, that the Thai government never gave up the temple. You cannot give up what you don't own.

You see why it is so dangerous to use nationalistic bullshit to paint your political enemies black. The PAD has not only caused a lot of grievance, economic damage, but possibly a major conflict with a neighboring country.

Even though, I hope and believe it will not come to that.

[Samuian]

.... it is a deal with the Thailand government and Cambodia, to get something different in the news.

May I correct this to : "it's a deal with a former PM of Thailand, who still governs it per remote control and wishes dearly to make his come back, to reclaim "his lost riches"!

Just found on the www.

Thai soldiers pulled back from a disputed stretch of the Cambodian border on Tuesday, averting a possible military confrontation in the region of the 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple, a Cambodian general on the scene said.

"They pulled out from our land," General Chea Mon told Reuters by phone from the border shortly before the expiry of a midday (0500 GMT) deadline set by Phnom Penh for the withdrawal of nearly 100 Thai soldiers from the jungle-clad area.

"The situation seems to have returned to normal," he said. "Our troops are occupying the area where the Thai troops have pulled out."

Source

Edited October 14, 2008 by Samuian

[Tod]

PHNOM PENH, Oct 14 (Reuters) - Thai soldiers pulled back from a disputed stretch of the Cambodian border on Tuesday, averting a possible military confrontation in the region of the 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple, a Cambodian general on the scene said.

"They pulled out from our land," General Chea Mon told Reuters by phone from the border shortly before the expiry of a midday (0500 GMT) deadline set by Phnom Penh for the withdrawal of nearly 100 Thai soldiers from the jungle-clad area.

"The situation seems to have returned to normal," he said. "Our troops are occupying the area where the Thai troops have pulled out."

Before the withdrawal, both Phnom Penh and Bangkok had been banging the war drums, with Thai Foreign Minister Sompong Amornvivat saying his government would not heed the ultimatum from Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen. "We are in our homeland. How can they expect us to leave our home?" he said in reply to a question from a reporter.

In a speech to an economic conference in Phnom Penh, Hun Sen repeated the deadline for Thai forces to pull back, but did not say what consequences would follow. On Monday, he said his forces would turn the area into a "death zone".

"We will not let the Thais stand on our land," he said, adding that Cambodian soldiers, many of them battle-hardened Khmer Rouge veterans, were shouting at the Thai lines: "If you want to die, come over here."

Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat had said Bangkok would pull back its troops only as part of wider joint effort to agree on the various disputed parts of the border.

"We have no problem with a troop withdrawal to avoid confrontation, but we need a joint committee to meet and agree on how far we are going to pull back and how many troops will be withdrawn," he said before a weekly cabinet meeting.

Singapore called for both sides to show restraint.

"We urge both sides to contain emotions, exercise restraint and resolve the issue through negotiations without resorting to force," the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

Tensions have been high since July, when around 1,000 soldiers on both sides faced off only yards apart in trenches dug into a hillside that until 10 years ago was under the control of remnants of the Khmer Rouge, Pol Pot's guerrilla army.

At the heart of the dispute is 1.8 square miles (4.6 sq km) of scrub near the temple, which the International Court of Justice awarded to Cambodia in 1962, a ruling that has rankled many in Thailand ever since.

The dispute flared in July after protesters trying to overthrow the Thai government attacked Bangkok's backing of Phnom Penh's bid to list the Hindu ruins as a World Heritage site. (Additional reporting by Pracha Hariraksapitak and Nopporn Wong-Anan) (Writing by Ed Cropley, Editing by Alex Richardson)

[bkkdawg]

What they gonna use against Thailand? Thier bad breath ?

Apart from a few AK's left from when the yanks were there they aint got <deleted> to fight with. A long drawn out war this will be!

[chameleon1977]

BBC news says it's all fine, thank god! Thailand 'pulls back' from border.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7668657.stm

[freitag1]

If the Thai government would ever decide to participate in a war the country would become miserable. Lots of people are already scared if there are violent demonstrations in Bkk now imagine if there is a war going on lol. No, too many people have realized how stupid and bad wars are and thanks to the majoriety of voters in the USA (all those who supported Bush) we were reminded of this fact.

[Tod]

Ok so I will ask the question I always ask when this stuff happens:

'Will this effect my ability to eat at McDonalds, drink on Soi Cowboy, pick up BKK uni girls or use the internet?'

dam_n, you seem to be a caricature of a fat, uneducated, lowlife farang.

You're right, nothing is more important in life than eating at Mc Donalds and drinking at soy Cowboy.

Thanks for you're contribution to that discussion.

[gk10002000]

I don't see why the Thai military had to back down. It only gives the Cambodians more confidence in its ability to threathen Thailand. Next thing you know they will stomp on Thai soil and threaten war if the AThais don't back off. What next? Si Saket, more landmines? Let's not forget Cambodia also has many disputes with Vietnam.

For sure. Don't forget that Vietnam is the country that stepped in and shut the door on Cambodia and the khemer army. The viets were much more organized. Of course, they had a few years of practice during the US-Vietnam fighting.