4 Grenades Explode Near Thailand's Anti-government Tv Station

[Tod]

The fighting began when the government supporters began throwing rocks...

And of course, the proper answer was to shoot back with guns in the streets and to burn motorbikes.

[animatic]

Thaksin won't return this Christmas : Pongthep

Ousted PM Thaksin will not come back to Thailand this year, according to his Spokesman Pongthep Thepkanjana. "Thaksin has not spoken to me about his return to the country. The last time he phoned me was last week," said the Spokesman. Thaksin's former lawyer and ex-Foreign Minister Noppadon said it would not be safe for the deposed PM be in the country at the moment. "Thaksin would not be safe, even in Thai prisons. What would happen if they let madmen get close to him," said

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=132287

Gee, why would Thaksin think there are madmen in Thai prisons???

Your average Somchai has to take his chances in a Thai prison

with the possiblity of 'madmen', why not Dr. T.? Or is he too special?

[jdinasia]

The fighting began when the government supporters began throwing rocks...

And of course, the proper answer was to shoot back with guns in the streets and to burn motorbikes.

Didn't you say you were part of what happened in Geneva?

Was it an appropriate response? scroll up .. already answered

[endure]

Flaming posts have been deleted - I will remind you all again of the forum rules against flaming and personal insults. If you want to retain the ability to post on this thread you will be civil.

[Nowhereman60]

It has been reported that PM Somchai is stopping in Dubai to pick up a passenger for the trip back to Bangkok.

[grandpops]

The fighting began when the government supporters began throwing rocks...

And of course, the proper answer was to shoot back with guns in the streets and to burn motorbikes.

Then when the police next fire tear gas at the PAD, they will be bleating and wailing about over reaction and there will be another 120 pages of angst on TV about over reaction.

Big network are taxi drivers and anyone in the past who has seen on slighted will know that this is not the end of the matter.

It does however look like it could be the begining of the end for the PAD.

[JoeInSurin]

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) - Thai anti-government demonstrators fired shots at government supporters as the rival sides clashed Thursday afternoon on a major highway in the Thai capital of Bangkok.

The fighting began when government supporters began throwing rocks at a truck carrying members of the People's Alliance for Democracy as it was returning from Bangkok's old airport, where the group had been holding a rally.

The airport has served as temporary government headquarters since the alliance occupied the prime minister's office in late August.

The anti-government group responded by firing slingshots and at least two pistols from their truck, and then gave chase to the attackers, who appeared to number several dozen, according to footage shown on Thai PBS television. The gunmen fired about half a dozen shots.

The men on the truck appeared by their dress—wearing camouflage clothes and yellow armbands—to be among the so-called guards working for the alliance, who have earned a reputation for aggressive behavior.

They also hoisted a portrait of King Bhumibol Adulyadej, Thailand's revered monarch, whose interests they claim to be working for.

The alliance has previously denied that they carry guns, though reporters from The Associated Press have seen them carrying and shooting firearms at earlier confrontations.

The footage showed anti-government supporters surrounding a motorcycle taxi driver and putting a knife to his throat. After the driver fled, the protesters hit several motorbikes with steel rods and set fire to another one.

The two sides are fairly easy to distinguish, since the protest alliance favors yellow shirts and their rivals red ones. Some of the government supporters seen fleeing were wearing red shirts.

The Narenthorn Medical Center said four people were taken to the hospital.

The pro-government crowd appeared to be members of a loose association of taxi drivers who support the government and are supporters of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The People's Alliance for Democracy opposed the current government, because it considers it to be a puppet of Thaksin, who was accused of corruption and abuse of power and deposed in a September 2006 military coup. During the brief skirmish, neither police nor any other security forces intervened

[MrSnrang]

My interpretation of the video posted at:

.

At around 5 PM, Viphawadi road soi 3, around PAD protest areas as they have made the decision to move towards Suvarnabhumi airport 20 km away.

Conflict between red and yellow shirts. The yellow shirts (PAD) began shooting towards the pro-government red shirt DAAD.

Protesters began destroying public property with guns and other weapons. They attacked cars and caught a motorcycle on fire (1:30).

Initial reports of six injured individuals taken to St. Paolo Hospital(?).

2:07. What you are seeing is a motorcycle taxi driver who has been assaulted.

2:26. 'Burn the fuc_king motorcycle'.

3:03 Protesters direct their attention to cameraman.

3:22. 'Calm down'

3:30. 'Get out. We'll take your camera.'

Used to support the PAD but now they've gone too far. The only option left is a military coup, though they were much more benevolent and functioning than the 'democratically' elected government of Thaksin Shinawatra.

On the other hand you should view this with skepticism. This may be a staged video by pro-government supporters, as both sides have been known to produce forged incendiary messages.

[Tod]

The fighting began when the government supporters began throwing rocks...

And of course, the proper answer was to shoot back with guns in the streets and to burn motorbikes.

Didn't you say you were part of what happened in Geneva?

Was it an appropriate response? scroll up .. already answered

You're right jdinasia, it's a good time to change the subject for PAD fans.

I was living in geneva and was a spectator of what happened there, yes

But I don't see what this has anything to do with the situation right now in Bangkok as nobody in Geneva pulled out guns to shoot on other peoples on the street.

[h90]

In Vibhavadi Soi 3 today PAD supporters open live fire on PPP supporters. here is the video clip

thanks for the link

[grandpops]

This lot should be very very easy to identify. The truck with its posters looks very distinctive.

I am asuming the tv footage is better in real life than on Youtube or bbc web services. It will have passed hundreds of traffic cameras and I am certain that many people watching this parade moving around will have pictures of it before the incident occurred.

Looks like one of the speaker trucks or portable stages to me, which discounts the statements that it is nothing to do with the Core of the PAD. Can't be many trucks like that moving around out there. Big white truck with speakers and a full length banner of their nemesis! Its even bigger and more obvious than one of those elephants the BIB fail to see from time to time!

As there were hundreds, if not thousands of well behave, public spirited, peace loving saints, surely it is only a matter of time before their names come to light I'm holding my breath on this one!... is that wise?

Edited November 25, 2008 by grandpops

[Thai at Heart]

That video shows that the situation is reaching a very incendiary time. People poo poo'd me for saying months ago that this could descend into anarchy. Well it looks very bad right now.

Thank god no one got shot, but this can't be too far beyond a situation whereby the army has to stand up.

[Sunderland]

Red shirts throwing rocks and battering vehicles with baseball bats ... yellow shirts firing guns and setting fire to motorcycles.

Who's worse?

Answer: The whole bunch are a pitiful waste of time, as are most of the muppets involved in Thai politics.

Meanwhile, do most Thai people give a hoot? Nope. On with your lives ....

[h90]

Red shirts throwing rocks and battering vehicles with baseball bats ... yellow shirts firing guns and setting fire to motorcycles.

Who's worse?

Answer: The whole bunch are a pitiful waste of time, as are most of the muppets involved in Thai politics.

Meanwhile, do most Thai people give a hoot? Nope. On with your lives ....

Maybe read the topic again.....

Red shirts killed several with grenades, so it is understandable that the guards overreact easily.

It is going in direction of a civil war, just because one man can't get enough money.....

[h90]

Just having one female guard here who was there, actually the sister from the guard who was almost killed by a knife when he hunted for the grenade shooting people (that might bias the opinion).

The red mob stopped the complete traffic on the street and tried to attack the peaceful protester (my opinion: most probably thinking that there is a truck with elderly ladies). But one truck contained guards which are in their real life soldiers at the army. They stroke back. Everything happened in her estimation within 5 min.

Imagine what would happened if the guards would not have been there.

So for me it is:

The red mob attacked the peaceful truck with people

they defended themself and overreacted a bit.

[cmsally]

That video shows that the situation is reaching a very incendiary time. People poo poo'd me for saying months ago that this could descend into anarchy. Well it looks very bad right now.

Thank god no one got shot, but this can't be too far beyond a situation whereby the army has to stand up.

I'm with you on that one. A while back I posted on the fact that this was a very nasty vendetta and people told me I was overreacting. Well it is coming out to play. Some people are going to have to think very carefully whether they want to compromise before it is too late. The worse the economy and the divisions become the harder it will become to solve as it plays out on the streets and the lower classes.

[permanent_disorder]

Perm Dis -- the UDD thug that was killed on Sept second was part of a group that attacked the PAD under the cover of darkness. Feel free to go back and read the news reports about the events that night!

Regarding that video --- I am trying to find it with sound. It looks damning

that was murder. period.

if if i look at the video footage of that night there have been more cases of attempted murder. lots of yellow shirts in a group beating peolpe with clubs who where on the ground already. you can see in those videos how the PAD lynch mob gang members aiming on the head to strike their blows.

but i ask you again. was there an investigation, what makes you so sure that the dead man was attacking the PAD?

i just remember that you try last month to claim that it was an PAD member that got killed that night and you posted and quoted a line out of a news article of that night claiming that. but those "news" have been proven wrong just few hours later at the same night.

your misleading post here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Chamlong-Sri...89#entry2258889

now those PAD mob people shoot around in the streets of bangkok. if you are really peace loving it's time now to go home and be not longer a part of it.

but i guess our hard core PAD apologists on TVforum will also have an excuse for that.

the shooting video, you can watch it on thai TV. i guess they have it somehow on rotation. it was just shown again 5 minutes ago.

and whatever was the reason for the shooting. you can see PAD demonstrator carry guns and don't hesitate to use them. how the police in other countries would handle such demonstrators?

what is the " appropriate response"?

i am more amazed by the fact how "soft" the thai police is, instead of calling it "police violence". because me too, i have some experience from taking part in demonstrations that went a little bit out of control. that was in my youth, and in two different political systems. a dictatorship and a so called western democracy.

and in my home country the riot control units from the police have been a special unit and part of the countries border patrol police, a sub unit.

it's a quite common police tactic that in case of demonstration that might be get out of control police units from an other province or 'state' come to action for the harder work. so nothing special if it is in thailand similar.

and also here in thailand you can see that normal police officers, in normal police clothes and not combat gear, come to the "front lines" and try to talk with the demonstrators, to ease the situation.

on 7. october was it the same. before the start to fire the tear gas you could see older police men (higher rank?) just dressed with a white t-shirt talked with the demonstrators.

[sriracha john]

Parliament meeting cancelled, Cabinet meeting cancelled, two different Government Headquarters uncontrolled, absentee PM, Cabinet ministers scurrying to and fro...... "but the government is in full control"

Minister of Interior says PAD situation no cause for worry

The Minister of Interior says the national situation is not a cause for concern as police and authorities have full control over protesters.

one of the scurrying Cabinet Ministers scurried straight out of the "in full control" government...

Commerce Minister Steps down, No Reason Given

Commerce Minister Chaiya Sasomsab has tended his resignation as the People Power Party's MP.

Thai government refuses to disclose its location

Spokesman Nattawut Saikau indicated the Thai government had effectively gone into hiding to avoid thousands of protesters who surrounded the prime minister‘s temporary headquarters at Bangkok‘s domestic airport and embarked on a cat-and-mouse chase to block their meetings.

Protesters seeking Somchai‘s resignation have occupied his Bangkok headquarters, known as Government House, since Aug. 26, forcing him to relocate to a makeshift office in the VIP area of the former international airport.

Protest leaders said their goal is to block the government from meeting — whenever and wherever that may be.

The weekly Cabinet meeting is usually held Tuesdays, but was changed to Wednesday because of Somchai‘s absence.

Nattawut said he would not confirm where the government was meeting.

Nattawut said more than 1,000 government employees evacuated the offices at Don Muang airport Monday afternoon.

Thousands of protesters blockaded Parliament on Monday and forced it to postpone a special joint session of both houses. Smaller rallies were held at the Finance Ministry and other government offices.

- Associated Press / 2008-11-25

[cmsally]

Just having one female guard here who was there, actually the sister from the guard who was almost killed by a knife when he hunted for the grenade shooting people (that might bias the opinion).

The red mob stopped the complete traffic on the street and tried to attack the peaceful protester (my opinion: most probably thinking that there is a truck with elderly ladies). But one truck contained guards which are in their real life soldiers at the army. They stroke back. Everything happened in her estimation within 5 min.

Imagine what would happened if the guards would not have been there.

So for me it is:

The red mob attacked the peaceful truck with people

they defended themself and overreacted a bit.

In my books , nowhere is it OK for someone to shoot at people running away.

People who behave like this are thugs and when they are shooting someone worse than thugs.

You do yourself a disservice by being an apologist for them.

[grandpops]

The Government is more in control that you think.

They have moved their meetings to get the PAD running round like headless chickens. Not only did they chase wild geese all day but they even managed to start shooting at some taxi drivers.

Just giving em enough rope and perhaps on one of these wild goose chases, there will be a real ambush and an end put to this madness.

Too late for the high season thought.

Can somebody start a post about cancellations! Sure to be tons.

Edited to applaud the post below this one. Well said Siam4ever, well said.

Edited November 25, 2008 by grandpops

[siam4ever]

IMHO, the PAD gets far too much negative attention. The real disgust should be on the military and Bangkok elitist forces who support the PAD and prevent the police from doing their job. Believe me, if 20,000 ThaiVisa members went around seizing government buildings they would be stopped immediately. The PAD mob has been treated with kid gloves by a terrifying social force.

[jdinasia]

Perm_Dis ...

it was not murder on Sept 2nd (at least it certainly has not been ruled so. How do I know the UDD attacked? Everyone says so ... the press (all of it) The Gov't in their SoE, the UDD, and the PAD all addressed the attack that night.

I am amazed you went though all of my posts and found a mistake (I have made more than one in all my posts) but this mistake was just an erroneous early report. The facts that the UDD attacked and this attack and that unfortunate death triggered the State of Emergency are not in question.

There has been no question that there are some armed PAD guards (firearms) and that the rest are armed with whatever makeshift riot gear they can get their hands on. So far it seems as if they were attacked by the taxi drivers and responded (probably WAY overreacted but not being there how can we know?) I am glad that they did not kill anyone!

From the post of mine that you quoted Perm_Dis

No the PAD has never been a true pacifist movement but it is a peaceful movement

and yes I concur that I would rather that they had not damaged property at GH and the TV station ... but they are doing a great job so far of being non-violent for the most part. I hope it continues this way but I think things may get worse very quickly.

I still think they have done a decent job at being non-violent --- they have not responded to repeated bomb attacks by searching out and attacking and have only responded (badly?) to attacks at the time they were being attacked and in danger. Would I prefer that they did not respond in the manner they did today? Yes

Edited November 25, 2008 by jdinasia

[animatic]

Since Thais of this general age group will shoot at each other

just to get a body into an ambulance for a small fee profit,

why would taxi mafia vs PAD guards be any different?

Rather than look at fringe elements,

look to what the main body is doing.

If we judged Thai society by ONLY the ambulance body snatcher,

we would get just as bias and inaccurate a view as if we ONLY

look at the vanguard young PAD guards, and not the PAD as a whole entity.

But tarred with the same brush works fine for some people when

they dislike another groups aims.

There are no innocent parties in this.

There are no perfect groups.

There is only the general MOTIVATIONS behind each side to really judge.

Some welcome a future Thaksinland, others find it anathema.

But we are basing much if this evenings verbosity on single 2nd hand reports of limited reliability

and limited verifiability of bias, and as such most are fitting facts to their agendas.

I think there are MUCH more important issues at stake than missing high season.

Though it WOULD be good economically for a strong one of course.

Oil and travel will do more damage than all this months of societal crap.

The world economy is in the toilet and this scrabbling in the streets is not changing that fact.

Edited November 25, 2008 by animatic

[JetsetBkk]

Thaksin won't return this Christmas : Pongthep

Ousted PM Thaksin will not come back to Thailand this year, according to his Spokesman Pongthep Thepkanjana. "Thaksin has not spoken to me about his return to the country. The last time he phoned me was last week," said the Spokesman. Thaksin's former lawyer and ex-Foreign Minister Noppadon said it would not be safe for the deposed PM be in the country at the moment. "Thaksin would not be safe, even in Thai prisons. What would happen if they let madmen get close to him," said

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=132287

Gee, why would Thaksin think there are madmen in Thai prisons???

Your average Somchai has to take his chances in a Thai prison

with the possiblity of 'madmen', why not Dr. T.? Or is he too special?

Possibly because your "average Somchai" is not on a nutter's hit-list.

[permanent_disorder]

Yes the French occasionally use water cannons.

BUT always with 'Potable Water', not street cleaning water.

Because they want to stop the riots, but not cause

long term health conditions, or blindness for the rioters.

The Paris street cleaning water is MUCH better than Klong water here.

This is some of the deadliest I have even come across. Inhaled in aerosoled form

or blasted under eyelids it is deadly and blinding.. BMA good call in refusing this.

If they went and used drinking supply water then fair play.

fair play?

PAD demonstrators are told by their leaders to arm themself with bags of urine and feces and used it to throw it at the police.*

would it be wrong to clean that up with "street cleaning water"? fair play!

[Bangyai]

This is a sad day. The film of the person opening fire with a revolver has been rapidly spread around the world. The effect on tourism is going to be enormous.

Yes, and if you look a bit closer you will see that behind the guy firing a gun is another moron holding up a picture of his majesty !!! Totally disgraceful and utterly unacceptable . LM at its worst .

Edited November 25, 2008 by Bangyai

[grandpops]

© ITN 2008

Thai anti-government protesters have opened fire on a group of government supporters.

TV footage showed at least two security guards from the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) firing at least half a dozen rounds from handguns at the government supporters.

It was the latest twist in an increasingly desperate six-month campaign by the PAD to unseat the elected administration.

The protesters surrounded Bangkok's old Don Muang airport, north of the city, where ministers have been running the country since the PAD invaded Government House in August.

In a speech to 10,000 yellow-shirted supporters, PAD leader Somsak Kosaisuk said: "It is time to make a clear-cut choice between good and evil, between those who are loyal and traitors."

Domestic flights were operating as usual from Don Muang, and there was no disruption to road or rail services despite a strike called by state sector unions in support of the PAD.

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat has rejected PAD demands that he should resign.

PAD billed this week's action as the "final battle", but these latest protests are unlikely to deliver a knock-out blow to the People Power Party (PPP) government.

Opinion polls show waning public support for the unelected coalition of royalist businessmen, academics and activists who accuse Mr Somchai of being a puppet of his brother-in-law, Thaksin Shinawatra, ousted as prime minister by the military in 2006.

Some analysts say the PAD's powerful backers in the Bangkok establishment are getting cold feet about the damage the political strife is inflicting on the economy.

"The people who've been backing PAD in the background have got frightened that it's getting out of control. It's a threat to public order and even the structure of the state itself," historian and political analyst Chris Baker said.

PAD enjoys the backing of Bangkok's urban middle classes and elite.

Mr Thaksin and the government claim their support from the rural voters who returned the PPP to power in a December election.

Edited November 25, 2008 by grandpops

[jdinasia]

Just having one female guard here who was there, actually the sister from the guard who was almost killed by a knife when he hunted for the grenade shooting people (that might bias the opinion).

The red mob stopped the complete traffic on the street and tried to attack the peaceful protester (my opinion: most probably thinking that there is a truck with elderly ladies). But one truck contained guards which are in their real life soldiers at the army. They stroke back. Everything happened in her estimation within 5 min.

Imagine what would happened if the guards would not have been there.

So for me it is:

The red mob attacked the peaceful truck with people

they defended themself and overreacted a bit.

In my books , nowhere is it OK for someone to shoot at people running away.

People who behave like this are thugs and when they are shooting someone worse than thugs.

You do yourself a disservice by being an apologist for them.

Sally, was anyone shot? I haven't heard yet! Were they running when the shooting started? ((After attacking?)) Yes it is a reasonable tactic to continue firing while people are retreating, If the people that are retreating are not armed with ranged weapons it is not a reasonable tactic to actually be trying to would or kill.

All we know so far is that the truck containing the PAD was attacked and that they responded (probably badly!)

[hammered]

That video shows that the situation is reaching a very incendiary time. People poo poo'd me for saying months ago that this could descend into anarchy. Well it looks very bad right now.

Thank god no one got shot, but this can't be too far beyond a situation whereby the army has to stand up.

I'm with you on that one. A while back I posted on the fact that this was a very nasty vendetta and people told me I was overreacting. Well it is coming out to play. Some people are going to have to think very carefully whether they want to compromise before it is too late. The worse the economy and the divisions become the harder it will become to solve as it plays out on the streets and the lower classes.

A very nasty vendetta indeed, and there are going to be revenge attacks and guns and bombs and anything else that comes to hand. This is getting way way our of ocntrol and needs stopping soon. I make you right on people needing to compromise or they may just find that what they were fighting over just isnt worth having anymore. This has moved beyond cheerleading orbacking horses and needs serious action to resolve in a way that is accpetable to all even if not ideal for all. Time is running out and there are lot more incensed people with every incident even if they are not on the front lines yet.

[animatic]

Yes the French occasionally use water cannons.

BUT always with 'Potable Water', not street cleaning water.

Because they want to stop the riots, but not cause

long term health conditions, or blindness for the rioters.

The Paris street cleaning water is MUCH better than Klong water here.

This is some of the deadliest I have even come across. Inhaled in aerosoled form

or blasted under eyelids it is deadly and blinding.. BMA good call in refusing this.

If they went and used drinking supply water then fair play.

fair play?

PAD demonstrators are told by their leaders to arm themself with bags of urine and feces and used it to throw it at the police.*

would it be wrong to clean that up with "street cleaning water"? fair play!

If you must respond, at least READ it first...