Reds And Yellows, Are Both Sides Fascist Movements?

[Jingthing]

A number of commentaries have called the PAD movement a fascist movement. A number have also compared the Thaksin movement to Peronism (of Argentina), also historically a fascist movement.

Any political scientists care to comment?

I had assumed that most modern westerners are anti-fascist, so why are so many of us supporting EITHER the reds OR the yellows? Surveys are showing most THAIS have not taken a side in this, why do foreigners feel the need to do so?

Edited November 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[chinnotes]

Although I read daily several Thai papers online (like matichon.co.th and manager.co.th.) I as a foreigner would never dare to judge who is right - the yellow or the red. And I don't regard it as my business to judge. I simply am worried that bloodshed may happen.

Who am I as a foreigner to tell the Thais how to behave or what to do?

Erwin

Edited November 30, 2008 by chinnotes

[britmaveric]

Reds are have right on their side. PAD are just plain evil.

[elibangkok]

chinnotes,

Do you mean to say that you are not qualified to make a judgement on the situation simply because you are not Thai? Don't really see the logic in this.

You might not feel that you understand the issue fully, but I do not think that makes you any different from 99.9% of Thai people. The fact that you are actually reading newspapers etc. and considering both sides makes you better informed than most of the protesters (on both sides) who are hearing only propoganda from their already chosen sides.

Don't be afraid to have a point of view or a sense of right and wrong.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, but what if both sides disgust you? That is my position. I don't see how it helps us or the Thais for us as foreigners to take a position on this. To be clear, I don't think that always applies. For example, I supported the Chinese students in Tiananmen Square and I supported the Filipino rebels against Marcos and the ANC in South Africa. But between Thai reds and yellows, I find nothing for an ethical westerner to be partisan about. Of course, I hope that people don't get hurt but I don't see how being partisan red or yellow would bring that about.

I have read that many Thais are feeling PRESSURE to take a side on this and they don't want to. This is getting UGLY. Both sides are talking about KILLING each other. I think it is very foolish for westerners in Thailand to take ether side in this tragedy.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[elibangkok]

Jingthing,

I agree with most of what you say and feel the same way.

The only point of differentiation is I feel it is foolish for anyone to be taking either side in this, be they foreigner or Thai. There really does not seem to be any "good guys" in this.

I have also heard of there being pressure to take sides, which is frightening and disapponting.

[IMA_FARANG]

A number of commentaries have called the PAD movement a fascist movement. A number have also compared the Thaksin movement to Peronism (of Argentina), also historically a fascist movement.

Any political scientists care to comment?

I had assumed that most modern westerners are anti-fascist, so why are so many of us supporting EITHER the reds OR the yellows? Surveys are showing most THAIS have not taken a side in this, why do foreigners feel the need to do so?

Myself, I work and live in Greece. my family is in Thailand (Bangkok). I don't feel passionately about Thai politics or follow it that closely. I certainly worry about the current situation, and hope violence can be avoided. But I don't feel a need to be a chanting supporter of either side.

my Thai family is part of that Thai (majority I feel) group who quite frankly don't believe any political group is worth their support. For many Thais, politics and politicians are not really relevant to their life, making a living and getting by is.

As to why so many Farangs feel they need to support one group or the other...well it's part human nature and partly a need to be a part of the group. Like football fans they feel they have to be supporters of their team. And there are some foriegners who want to prove their "Thai-ness" by outdoing the Thais. Of course, there are also some who feel that one side or the other is the "virtuous" ones and the other side is the "evil" ones.

For myself, I follow my family....and I say that I wouldn't trust ANY politician too much, especially Thai politicians (A politician is a person who can pat you on the back, shake your hand, pick your pocket, and feel up your wife; all at the same time).

And for all the "doom-sayers" that believe Thailand is about to collapse because of the current problems...look back through Thai history...there have been worse problems than this before. And there is still a Thailand...which actually exists outside of, and despite, it's politicians and government.

[Ulysses G.]

The reds are the legally elected government and all the experts agree that they have the votes to stay in power easily. The yellows are purposely destroying the country and they admit that they intend to get rid of democracy. I have no great admiration for Thaksin or his party, but surely they are the lesser of two evils.

[Carib]

A number of commentaries have called the PAD movement a fascist movement. A number have also compared the Thaksin movement to Peronism (of Argentina), also historically a fascist movement.

Any political scientists care to comment?

I had assumed that most modern westerners are anti-fascist, so why are so many of us supporting EITHER the reds OR the yellows? Surveys are showing most THAIS have not taken a side in this, why do foreigners feel the need to do so?

Myself, I work and live in Greece. my family is in Thailand (Bangkok). I don't feel passionately about Thai politics or follow it that closely. I certainly worry about the current situation, and hope violence can be avoided. But I don't feel a need to be a chanting supporter of either side.

my Thai family is part of that Thai (majority I feel) group who quite frankly don't believe any political group is worth their support. For many Thais, politics and politicians are not really relevant to their life, making a living and getting by is.

As to why so many Farangs feel they need to support one group or the other...well it's part human nature and partly a need to be a part of the group. Like football fans they feel they have to be supporters of their team. And there are some foriegners who want to prove their "Thai-ness" by outdoing the Thais. Of course, there are also some who feel that one side or the other is the "virtuous" ones and the other side is the "evil" ones.

For myself, I follow my family....and I say that I wouldn't trust ANY politician too much, especially Thai politicians (A politician is a person who can pat you on the back, shake your hand, pick your pocket, and feel up your wife; all at the same time).

And for all the "doom-sayers" that believe Thailand is about to collapse because of the current problems...look back through Thai history...there have been worse problems than this before. And there is still a Thailand...which actually exists outside of, and despite, it's politicians and government.

A breath of fresh air...

[londonthai]

I do have stance on thai politics - altough I am not a political scientist, I do have core political views and I have the righ to have my political opinions on any political situation in any country.

1. I am against thailand as a semi-feudal country, I much more prefer it as a capitalist country, with a higher chance to progress to the next socio-economic system, democratic socialism, through the socialist revolution.

2. because of the military coup and the yellows (as an antymilitarist I do hate military, police, thai old political and finantial establishment), my family is loosing revenue from holiday rentals. Call it selfish and petty burgua, but for us it's about the survival, we are still working class trying to meet ends.

3. I am unable to travel and in the case of feudalists still remaining in thai politics, with it's nationalism and xenophobia, my future travel and stay in thailand might be problematic.

[digitele]

The reds are the legally elected government and all the experts agree that they have the votes to stay in power easily. The yellows are purposely destroying the country and they admit that they intend to get rid of democracy. I have no great admiration for Thaksin or his party, but surely they are the lesser of two evils.

The Reds will be gaining ground, no doubt. PAD has really played into the oppositions favor. Great strategy!

[toybits]

A doctor woud say that there are two types of surgeries. One of these types is called an elective surgery like - a cosmetic surgery such as a b__b job. It is totally unnecessary and really could be done anytime. The person wanting to have a b__b job will not die if it were not done.

The PAD reminds me of the Double D thread - with a bit of difference. The PAD wants to have Double F's.

They sure are F-king the economy now....

A number of commentaries have called the PAD movement a fascist movement. A number have also compared the Thaksin movement to Peronism (of Argentina), also historically a fascist movement.

Any political scientists care to comment?

I had assumed that most modern westerners are anti-fascist, so why are so many of us supporting EITHER the reds OR the yellows? Surveys are showing most THAIS have not taken a side in this, why do foreigners feel the need to do so?

[Samuian]

A number of commentaries have called the PAD movement a fascist movement. A number have also compared the Thaksin movement to Peronism (of Argentina), also historically a fascist movement.

Fascism is an authoritarian or totalitarian nationalist ideology that seeks to form a highly-centralized autocratic, single-party state led by a dictator. Fascists typically seek to form a mass movement of militants who are willing to engage in violence against their perceived enemies. Fascism opposes communism, conservatism, democracy, individualism, liberalism, materialism, pacifism and pluralism. Some fascists see themselves as advocating a third position alternative to both capitalism and communism.

Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism (including collectivism and populism based on nationalist values); third positionism (including class collaboration, corporatism, economic planning, mixed economy, national socialism, national syndicalism, protectionism,); authoritarianism and totalitarianism (including dictatorship, indoctrination, major social interventionism, and statism); and militarism.

With his absolute Majority, populist policies and his hunger for power, disregard for human rights, the judicary, critical media, he was definitely on the road to achieve this.

Nowadays it is no wonder that those who support him, his cronies and his political agenda are accusing their opponents of just that.

But this is only a war of words, who wants what is of major importance!

Why does "little Somchai" not step down, whyt there are no more calls from within the government to disolve the house, they afre the ones who could stop this immediately and if they are SO sure about their popularitythey will win the elections again with a landslide victory or aren't they so sure about this anymore?

Do they need a free ticket to ride first?

THINK!

[Ulysses G.]

Why does "little Somchai" not step down, whyt there are no more calls from within the government to disolve the house, they afre the ones who could stop this immediately and if they are SO sure about their popularitythey will win the elections again with a landslide victory or aren't they so sure about this anymore?

Do they need a free ticket to ride first?

THINK!

YOU THINK!

They are the legally elected government. Why should they step down?

[britmaveric]

PAD gets emboldened every time the govt gives in, so last thing I would do is resign. Fk it I'd go down fighting instead.

[digitele]

Question: Reds and Yellows, Are both sides Fascist Movements?

Answer: Just the PAD.

[pampal]

Whatever my personal views may be on this subject, there is no denying the damage that has been done to Thailand by the PAD.

[Jingthing]

Question: Reds and Yellows, Are both sides Fascist Movements?

Answer: Just the PAD.

Sorry, but just stating that does NOT make it so.

Others would beg to differ.

Does this undemocratic RED SHIRT THAKSINISTA murderous mob remind you of something out of Musolin's time, or not?

http://www.upiasia.com/Politics/2008/07/25...hai_style/3854/

Edited December 1, 2008 by Jingthing

[sabaijai]

The reds are the legally elected government and all the experts agree that they have the votes to stay in power easily. The yellows are purposely destroying the country and they admit that they intend to get rid of democracy. I have no great admiration for Thaksin or his party, but surely they are the lesser of two evils.

Everyone knows Thaksin bought the parliamentary votes to get his brother-in-law selected. 100% illegal. The PPP has also been declared illegal, and after the closing arguments are heard tomorrow, will be disbanded for being illegal. So one can't truthfully say the current government was 'legally elected'.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Does this undemocratic RED SHIRT THAKSINISTA murderous mob remind you of something out of Musolin's time, or not?

No.

The yellow thugs however very much do.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Everyone knows Thaksin bought the parliamentary votes to get his brother-in-law selected. 100% illegal.

Excuse me? This isn't even *alleged* in any court case! Anyway, let's suffice that I personally don't 'know' this, so that makes your statement false.

Why do some Bangkokians/Southerners have such a hard time understanding that what really gained the support of the rural poor was RESPECT and populist policies, NOT the buying of votes?

If anything Thaksin MOVED AWAY from the old system where regional mafia power brokers just bought all the votes. There is less and less need for vote buying as people are now sincerely fired up politically.

The PPP has also been declared illegal, and after the closing arguments are heard tomorrow, will be disbanded for being illegal. So one can't truthfully say the current government was 'legally elected'.

Keep it real. The allegation center around the actions of a PPP politician in Chiang Rai. If you then call 'PPP = illegal and should be removed even though an electoral majority voted for them, then you're taking a stand.

[southerndown]

A number of commentaries have called the PAD movement a fascist movement. A number have also compared the Thaksin movement to Peronism (of Argentina), also historically a fascist movement.

Any political scientists care to comment?

I had assumed that most modern westerners are anti-fascist, so why are so many of us supporting EITHER the reds OR the yellows? Surveys are showing most THAIS have not taken a side in this, why do foreigners feel the need to do so?

Myself, I work and live in Greece. my family is in Thailand (Bangkok). I don't feel passionately about Thai politics or follow it that closely. I certainly worry about the current situation, and hope violence can be avoided. But I don't feel a need to be a chanting supporter of either side.

my Thai family is part of that Thai (majority I feel) group who quite frankly don't believe any political group is worth their support. For many Thais, politics and politicians are not really relevant to their life, making a living and getting by is.

As to why so many Farangs feel they need to support one group or the other...well it's part human nature and partly a need to be a part of the group. Like football fans they feel they have to be supporters of their team. And there are some foriegners who want to prove their "Thai-ness" by outdoing the Thais. Of course, there are also some who feel that one side or the other is the "virtuous" ones and the other side is the "evil" ones.

For myself, I follow my family....and I say that I wouldn't trust ANY politician too much, especially Thai politicians (A politician is a person who can pat you on the back, shake your hand, pick your pocket, and feel up your wife; all at the same time).

And for all the "doom-sayers" that believe Thailand is about to collapse because of the current problems...look back through Thai history...there have been worse problems than this before. And there is still a Thailand...which actually exists outside of, and despite, it's politicians and government.

i agree looking at history can help understand but there are many differences in the present situation. we are in my view in unchartered territory and i hav deliberately underlined that. yes there have been political battles and coups; yes there have been very serious economic problems. and there have been political differences. there are two factors that need to be considered, china and something we cannot talk about