Funds Go Missing From Kasikorn Account

[cali4995]

SOURCE: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000008078

note: At first glance, it does seem a pretty weak response from the bank?

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HALF A MILLION BAHT MISSING FROM DUTCH COUPLE‘S PATTAYA BANK ACCOUNT

A Dutch couple living in Pattaya claims that over half a million baht is missing from their bank account at the Kasikorn Bank.

At 10:00 am. on 21st December2008, after reporting the matter to Pattaya police investigator Pol. Lt. Col. Wanlop Kungtaratip, Mr. Frank Bouwmeester, [44] and Mrs. Johanna Doorn [66], a Dutch couple residing at 102 / 6, Moo 11, Nongprue, Banglamung, made a complaint to the media that 500,525 Baht had been removed from their bank account during the course of 2 days in July 2008.

Mrs. Doorn , the owner of the Bank account, said she had been a customer of the South Pattaya branch of Kasikorn Bank for more than 8 years. She had an ATM Card for her convenience to withdraw cash up to a maximum of about 20,000 baht a day. On the 1st July this year, she had transferred 7000 baht to her son at Nongkai through the bank ATM service.

On the 3rd July she tried to withdraw cash from the ATM but it was rejected with a "wrong pin code" message. At first she thought that the machine was faulty so she tried another, but received the same response.

The couple then went to the Kasikorn Bank, South Pattaya branch, where their original account was issued. They told the story to the bank officer and also asked for a new card since the old one was 8 years old.

While waiting for their new card, they asked for an updated statement from their bank book and were shocked to find out that over half a million baht was missing from their previous balance of 1.5 million baht. Transactions involving the missing funds were recorded during the 2nd and the 3rd of July 2008.

The bank officer told them to stay calm and said that they would be informed once more details of the transactions had been found.

On the 5th July, they checked their account again at an ATM and were shocked to find that a further 49,000 baht had been withdrawn while the ATM card was still in their possession and they were allowed to withdraw only 20,000 baht a day

They once again visited the bank, where the officer told them not to worry, and the money should be refunded to their account again on the following day, but this never happened.

The couple decided to meet the bank manager of the South Pattaya branch, Mr. Waigoon Kriengsakpong, who, after listening to their complaints, found out that the money had been transferred via an ATM in Hatyai , Songklah to somebody's account in Surathani and Kalasin.

The couple claimed that they did not have any Thai friends or relatives in Thailand. However, Mr. Waigoon promised to refer their case to the head office in Bangkok as soon as possible.

Mrs. Doorn said that on the 18th December, the assistant director of customer service from the bank head office, Mr. Chaiyasit Jindacharin, had called them and informed that the bank could not replace the missing funds to their account. He also added that there was the possibility her husband may have given the ATM card to somebody to withdraw the money. She thought that this was a terrible excuse and that they should have checked the receiver's account.

I have retired and bought a 10 million baht house in Thailand and I've been a long time customer with the bank for more than 8 years. My husband is always with me and he has shown no signs of unfaithful behaviour. Now that we have a problem, instead of responding fast and seriously checking the system, they choose to transfer the fault to the customer. I don't understand why Thai banks have such a terrible system. I have reported this to the police and complained to the media to protect my own rights" she finally added.

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[JimmyTheMook]

Amazing the bank could give two shits about helping a couple of foreigners

[Briggsy]

Here are 2 theories.

1. A bank employee with or without associates has been on the rob, not for the first time. See this link.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Matter-Legal...21#entry2425721

2. Look at the age difference of the couple. Perhaps something fishy is going on. Apologies if this is not the case or crappy reporting has got the ages wrong, not for the first time.

[MeetJohnDoe]

I am sure the bank has/is doing all it can to investigate the matter and I hope some satisfactory resolution is found. What people need to remember about Thailand is that it is not yet a "consumer is always right" kind of society. That businesses actually have rules and regulations about reimbursing claims of fraud and that things take time. Many from the West have become conditioned to instant gratification from businesses afraid of getting a bad reputation that they accept any story as true and reimburse a customer for anything without question. The same goes for goods purchases...the no questions asked returns policy is a good example of this.

All that being said, having such a large amount of funds in a Thai bank is not wise in my opinion, unless it is needed for some specific upcoming transaction or it's a business account. I would never have more than 2-3 months living expenses in my Thai bank account and in this way, one's potential loss from bank employee fraud or from a card skimmer is limited. If for some reason, such a large amount of money was needed to be kept in Thailand, spread it around in several different banks.

[PennyFarthing123]

John Doe, I would think 6 months is more than adequate to investigate the matter. Also you will note the bank has said they will not replace the missing funds.

As to having that amount of money in their account you must have 800,000 for three months for your retirement visa and if you are like my husband and myself we each have our visas independent of each other so that means 1,600,000 unless we go the pension verified by our consulate route. (Which we do)

Also with the baht getting stronger and stronger many felt it wise to bring in a larger amount of money than usual to avoid the loss in currency exchange.

[MeetJohnDoe]

Pennyfarthing:

I don't know the particulars about this case other than what the op states. However, I am not one of the crowd that automatically assumes that Thai banks (or any other businesses) are out to cheat or steal from foreigners. All that a bank has is the trust of its customers (depositors mainly) and if this is lost due to a reputation for fraud, the bank would not be around long (I'm sure the BOT and the finance ministry would be interested in such businesses practices too). So I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they did do a through investigation of the matter and concluded they were not at fault. The depositors have further recourse if they want...government agencies and the courts for a couple.

One thing I do know is there are regular reports posted from foreigners claiming that their Thai banks or ATM machines ripped them off in some way or another. After further investigation, they learn of some misunderstanding on THEIR part about the transaction and that there was no problem to begin with or they were at fault.

[Humphrey Bear]

Banks can make mistakes, as can customers.

But if the reporting is right, then half a million went missing from the account in two days and the bank traced the recipients. This is not done with a 20k-limit ATM card. This is done by a security-cleared bank employee.

Ny avice is to see a good solicitor straight away - a;though there may now be arguments about the lapse of time since the theft (as that is what it was).

[PennyFarthing123]

I agree that the banks are not out to cheat the customer, but I do know that they can be very lax in pursuing a problem unless you are persistant in pushing them to find the cause of the problem.

I accept that we only know one side of the story in this case, but if what has been told is correct then further action should be pursued.

[syd barrett]

There have been well publicized cases of Thai nationals being ripped off by bent employees at the banks.

When I think of the large amounts I used to have on deposit in Thai banks I feel physically sick. I was lucky. Now I hold 3 months living expenses maximum.

For anyone who plans on holding more than that ie. for visa reasons then an account without an ATM card is recommended.

[Thai at Heart]

I have several friends of family who are bank employees. They regularly regale me with stories of paperwork not totalling sometimes in the millions and frantic late night checking to find it. If it goes, they are liable.

So in this situation that the bank says they aren't liable, someone is somewhere or .............

[munirkn]

Tracing transaction is that easy as piece of cake so why bank making such excuses? That much amount can not be withdrawn by atm in two days and according to the statement above, money transfered to some other account. Is their account online and they using internet banking? there can be some security vulnerability in kasikorn banking system but still it can be tracked because money can not go to void account. Pray for that couple may they get relief. Amin!

[Japhrodisiac]

I have had a number of problems with Kasikorn, missing funds on two occasions that were later returned after much prodding and me not giving up, then finally a nightmare of a missing wire transfer where they kept blaming my bank in Singapore for losing the funds, but would not ever provide their internal proof of transfer. I kept at them for 3 weeks, every day on the phone, and in the branch, sometimes 5 times a day on the phone until I managed to get ahold of someone in the BKK head office that let it slip that they forgot to put the beneficiary address on and no one wanted to admit their mistake. Funds were not in my acct but in the purgatory of the "not sent but not returned" pile at the head office account. When this became clear, finally my funds were returned, I drew all funds out of my account and closed it. The attitude of the branch staff was polite yet incompetent, they were relectant to get anyone on the phone and were basically hoping the problem would solve itself. Everyone insisted that I or my Singapore bank (HSBC) must have made the mistake, no way they could do that (even though I kept the copies of the remittance form signed and stamped by the bank, all filled in perfectly by me).

Banks are still staffed by humans, and if the humans are lazy, corrupt, incompetent etc then these things tend to happen.

In the case of the Dutch couple, the bank concludes their own internal investigation, reaffirming that nothing has happened and no further action will take place, when a clear issue is flagged (ie 250,000 baht/day withdrawn from another province when a 20,000 baht card is issued) is an obvious discrepancy that remains unexplained, save for a vague referrence to the husband perhaps having something on the side (which also would be litigable in most countries to say that to a customer)

[Tony Clifton]

Reminds me of the Thai woman who had won the lottery and discovered her prize had been removed from her bank account by bank employees.

[daviscf]

Everyone is just assuming the bank is at fault and that these poor people are innocent victims. I suppose that's possible but I have another theory.

Isn't it possible that the husband was up to no good and withdrew the money himself without telling his wife and then played along that the money was mysteriously missing from the account? Tell me that never happens.

Maybe he gave it to his girlfriend to buy a house or car. Maybe he gambled it away. Maybe he owed money to people. Many possibilities. I just think there is a greater percent possibility that the foul play was self-inflicted.

[cali4995]

It is possible there was some problem with the account holders, but if you read the story again......

"The couple decided to meet the bank manager of the South Pattaya branch, Mr. Waigoon Kriengsakpong, who, after listening to their complaints, found out that the money had been transferred via an ATM in Hatyai , Songklah to somebody's account in Surathani and Kalasin."

It would be at best difficult, for one of the couple to pull this off. Usually these fraud cases (which are not so uncommon)

don't involve such large amounts. The bank really needs a competent investigative team to resolve these things.

Additionally, the amounts indicated seem to suggest, withdrawals made from inside the bank or bypassing the daily limits

with some other means. I feel sorry for them that 6 months has elapsed already, doesn't work in their favor.

Edited December 24, 2008 by cali4995

[LaoPo]

SOURCE: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000008078

note: At first glance, it does seem a pretty weak response from the bank?

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HALF A MILLION BAHT MISSING FROM DUTCH COUPLE‘S PATTAYA BANK ACCOUNT

The couple decided to meet the bank manager of the South Pattaya branch, Mr. Waigoon Kriengsakpong, who, after listening to their complaints, found out that the money had been transferred via an ATM in Hatyai , Songklah to somebody's account in Surathani and Kalasin.

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Can you transfer money through an ATM machine -in Hat Yai/Songhkla Province, Far South, to another account in Surat Thani Province and another amount to a FAR AWAY account in the Province of Kalasin in the North East-, whilst their own account was in Pattaya, which is on the other side of the Gulf ?

One has to be IN Hat Yai, physically, to make 2 money transfers (which I don't know if that is possible via an ATM machine ?)

Weird.

LaoPo

[Gertrude]

Mrs. Doorn , the owner of the Bank account, said she had been a customer of the South Pattaya branch of Kasikorn Bank for more than 8 years. She had an ATM Card for her convenience to withdraw cash up to a maximum of about 20,000 baht a day. On the 1st July this year, she had transferred 7000 baht to her son at Nongkai through the bank ATM service.

The couple claimed that they did not have any Thai friends or relatives in Thailand. However, Mr. Waigoon promised to refer their case to the head office in Bangkok as soon as possible

I can only assume from these conflicting statements, that a son in the Dutch language does not mean a relative, as in English????

Either that, or there is a Nongkai in Holland as well!!!

[tartempion]

Amazing the bank could give two shits about helping a couple of foreigners

Siam Commercial Bank Udon Thani Big C branch don't give shit indeed.

Two weeks ago had my ATM card "eaten" by a stand alone ATM at Lotus Udon.

Visited SCB Big C brabch where I have my account within 15 minutes.

Employee smiled and blablabla'd, did NOTHING, told it would take one week to recover card and was NOT their responsability, I needed to contact the main Udon branch. That's a load of crap in my eyes.

Telephoned by mobile to SCB help desk, where they hardly understand English, talking Thai didn't pass very well neither.

Managed to get the card blocked, waited one week, went to main branch, got card back, telephoned again to Help desk to get it unblocked.

Have a big transfer under way, they will never document the details of the transfer: exchange rate, commission witheld.

And then punters here question why many living here consider this country a third/fourth world country to live in, if you wouldn't know it: quality of goods and services is rubbish

Consider changing banks, but what difference will it make?

To the original thread topic:

"The couple decided to meet the bank manager of the South Pattaya branch, Mr. Waigoon Kriengsakpong, who, after listening to their complaints, found out that the money had been transferred via an ATM in Hatyai , Songklah to somebody's account in Surathani and Kalasin."

How can you possibly "transfer" 500.000 baht with an ATM? and the bank manager claiming nothing wrong with that?

Maybe he is the game himself?

Edited December 25, 2008 by tartempion

[tartempion]

I am sure the bank has/is doing all it can to investigate the matter .....snip snip snip

You are delusional aren't you?

[Briggsy]

SOURCE: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000008078

note: At first glance, it does seem a pretty weak response from the bank?

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HALF A MILLION BAHT MISSING FROM DUTCH COUPLE‘S PATTAYA BANK ACCOUNT

The couple decided to meet the bank manager of the South Pattaya branch, Mr. Waigoon Kriengsakpong, who, after listening to their complaints, found out that the money had been transferred via an ATM in Hatyai , Songklah to somebody's account in Surathani and Kalasin.

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Can you transfer money through an ATM machine -in Hat Yai/Songhkla Province, Far South, to another account in Surat Thani Province and another amount to a FAR AWAY account in the Province of Kalasin in the North East-, whilst their own account was in Pattaya, which is on the other side of the Gulf ?

One has to be IN Hat Yai, physically, to make 2 money transfers (which I don't know if that is possible via an ATM machine ?)

Weird.

LaoPo

I think you have misunderstood, LaoPo.

I don't think this is talking about ATM withdrawals. It is talking about using an ATM machine to transfer money between 2 accounts. Provided somebody has the ATM card and PIN code, accounts can be accessed from anywhere around the country and money transferred to other accounts. The locations of the accounts and the location of the ATM machine do not matter.

Surely you must have stood behind somebody in an ATM queue as they pay every bill under the sun. This is just another form of account transfer.

I often transfer money between different banks with accounts held in Swindon and Edinburgh from my computer terminal in Bangkok. Over 10,000 kms away, fancy that!

[animatic]

Amazing the bank could give two shits about helping a couple of foreigners

Siam Commercial Bank Udon Thani Big C branch don't give shit indeed.

Two weeks ago had my ATM card "eaten" by a stand alone ATM at Lotus Udon.

Visited SCB Big C brabch where I have my account within 15 minutes.

Employee smiled and blablabla'd, did NOTHING, told it would take one week to recover card and was NOT their responsability, I needed to contact the main Udon branch. That's a load of crap in my eyes.

Telephoned by mobile to SCB help desk, where they hardly understand English, talking Thai didn't pass very well neither.

Managed to get the card blocked, waited one week, went to main branch, got card back, telephoned again to Help desk to get it unblocked.

Have a big transfer under way, they will never document the details of the transfer: exchange rate, commission witheld.

And then punters here question why many living here consider this country a third/fourth world country to live in, if you wouldn't know it: quality of goods and services is rubbish

Consider changing banks, but what difference will it make?

To the original thread topic:

"The couple decided to meet the bank manager of the South Pattaya branch, Mr. Waigoon Kriengsakpong, who, after listening to their complaints, found out that the money had been transferred via an ATM in Hatyai , Songklah to somebody's account in Surathani and Kalasin."

How can you possibly "transfer" 500.000 baht with an ATM? and the bank manager claiming nothing wrong with that?

Maybe he is the game himself?

You can't transfer at an ATM more than 20,000 baht per transfer.

You can't transfer at an ATM more than the amount the bank allows,

typically 100,000 max IF you have set that up with the bank, normally 20,000 a day.

There would be multiple records of those transactions,

and they would have a record of the ATM card used and it's owner.

If passport records show they were both out of the country,

and the transfer can't be done out of the country,

then it's either stolen/duplicated card, or inside job.

Lost cards in ATM's especially OTHER BANKS ATM's is a week.

And I was told it is government rules that cause this delay.

If the card is not in the banks hands, they consider it at large.

And they also consider each branch as a separate business,

even if home office is an unmbrella for many branches.

At one point I had 3 SCB accounts spread around the island,

and certain things could ONLY be done at the ORIGINAL account

opening bank. Blindingly stupid system.

[PattayaParent]

Lost cards in ATM's especially OTHER BANKS ATM's is a week.

And I was told it is government rules that cause this delay.

If the card is not in the banks hands, they consider it at large.

And they also consider each branch as a separate business,

even if home office is an unmbrella for many branches.

At one point I had 3 SCB accounts spread around the island,

and certain things could ONLY be done at the ORIGINAL account

opening bank. Blindingly stupid system.

I got mine back next day.

[chokchai4]

from kasikorn website

Use it instead of cash to pay for goods or services in the same way as a credit card with the maximum limit of THB 100,000 per day at all times at more than 12 million stores across the world that accept VISA card.

You can make a swift cash withdrawal to the maximum amount of THB 200,000 daily (THB 50,000 for initial withdrawal limit) round-the-clock at ATMs that have the signs ‘Plus’ or ‘VISA’. Wherever you go – regardless the distance, you can be sure to have cash on hand at all times.

* Maximum withdrawal per transaction depends on ATM's owner bank limit.

Other account funds transfer is quite easy and the daily transferable amount is up to THB 1,000,000 (THB 200,000 for initial transfer limit). In case of interbank funds transfer at K-ATM, the amount is limited to THB 100,000 daily (THB 30,000 per transfer).

[MeetJohnDoe]

Two weeks ago had my ATM card "eaten" by a stand alone ATM at Lotus Udon.

Visited SCB Big C brabch where I have my account within 15 minutes. Employee smiled and blablabla'd, did NOTHING, told it would take one week to recover card and was NOT their responsability, I needed to contact the main Udon branch. Telephoned by mobile to SCB help desk. Managed to get the card blocked, waited one week, went to main branch, got card back, telephoned again to Help desk to get it unblocked.

Sorry to hear about all your trouble. When this happened to me with a BB ATM card being eaten by a SCB ATM here in Pattaya, I visited the mini-branch of BB in the shopping mall I was in and they said the easiest and safest thing to do was to cancel the old (eaten) card and order a new one. This was done on the spot so no risk of any fraudulent use of old card and new card came in about a week. Cost was on the order of B100 for the new card.

Problem easily solved.

May I ask, why are you in Thailand as you seem to dislike it so?

[Enjibenji]

Amazing the bank could give two shits about helping a couple of foreigners

Siam Commercial Bank Udon Thani Big C branch don't give shit indeed.

Two weeks ago had my ATM card "eaten" by a stand alone ATM at Lotus Udon.

Visited SCB Big C brabch where I have my account within 15 minutes.

Employee smiled and blablabla'd, did NOTHING, told it would take one week to recover card and was NOT their responsability, I needed to contact the main Udon branch. That's a load of crap in my eyes.

sorry to hear you had problems with siam commercial - take a look at this http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Atm-Swallowe...rd-t225689.html by me. It was a different branch though

[Scott]

I hope we keep updated on this situation. It's rather important how these things happen and how they are resolved. This affects 'regular' people.

[wintermute]

I've never had a problem with using Bangkok Bank atms or their service for the limited transactions i've done through them. I think they are more "international" than Kasikorn. As it stands I don't understand why someone would keep that much cash in a Thai bank. There's absolutely no reason to do so unless you plan on buying a condo or something crucial.

[Mintman]

It is well known in Pattaya that this sort of thing has happend several times at this bank,Only last month a friend of mine lost 20K From same Bank They said his Lady must have used his card,Police did nothing.Only thing you can do is get your money out of there quick, dont use Kasikorn Bank in south Pattaya Road

[LukDod]

I hope it works out for the Dutch couple. The situation sure sounds fishy!!

Rather than add another...'my bank screwed me' post, I'll end with a positive note:

I was at the mini-branch of Ayudhya Bank, located at the PTT gas station on Thepprasit Road, in South Pattaya.

I was attempting to withdraw funds from their ATM, but the transaction failed and the machine kept my card.

I reported it to one of the bank employees inside the mini-branch.

She said they'd have someone come out to open the machine and retrieve my card, and that

I should come back in an hour. Naturally, I was doubtful...I'd never experienced anything in

Thailand to occur that fast.

Yet, I returned slightly over an hour later...and the employee gave me the retrieved ATM card, which I used

to complete the withdrawal I initially attempted!

Edited December 25, 2008 by LukDod

[ataloss]

from kasikorn website

Use it instead of cash to pay for goods or services in the same way as a credit card with the maximum limit of THB 100,000 per day at all times at more than 12 million stores across the world that accept VISA card.

You can make a swift cash withdrawal to the maximum amount of THB 200,000 daily (THB 50,000 for initial withdrawal limit) round-the-clock at ATMs that have the signs ‘Plus’ or ‘VISA’. Wherever you go – regardless the distance, you can be sure to have cash on hand at all times.

* Maximum withdrawal per transaction depends on ATM's owner bank limit.

Other account funds transfer is quite easy and the daily transferable amount is up to THB 1,000,000 (THB 200,000 for initial transfer limit). In case of interbank funds transfer at K-ATM, the amount is limited to THB 100,000 daily (THB 30,000 per transfer).

Thank you Chokchai4.

I am with KK and had been wondering upon visiting Europe and North America how I was to get money out of Thailand. The answer was right in my wallet with my KK card, and I had not realized. Thanks again.