"up To You"

[dave9988]

my guess is that Thai women are basically taught consciously and subconsciously to be subservient, or well, to follow, be the back up, walk behind their husband, thus, the origin of 'up to you'??

[IMA_FARANG]

my guess is that Thai women are basically taught consciously and subconsciously to be subservient, or well, to follow, be the back up, walk behind their husband, thus, the origin of 'up to you'??

Oh you poor deluded man.

"Up to you" as any married man can tell has different meanings.

For example if you say, "I want to go out with the boys tomorrow night. Is that o.k. with you?". If she answers, "Up to you", that can mean anything for NO to IF YOU DO I'LL KICK YOUR A## (i.e. You'll be sleeping on the sofa for the next week....if you're lucky.)

Your problem is that you apparently believe that the MEN in Thaialnd are in charge, and the WOMEN are subservient. It is definately not the case.

Thai women (like women around the world, actually) let their men think they run things. That is just a running joke that women share among themselves.

I have a Thai Chinese friend. Grandfather officially runs the house being the oldest. The real ruler is his wife...who controls the two important things in a Thai Chinese family...children and their education and Buddhisim and the family relationship with Buddhisim.

When grandmother "suggests" that money is needed for one of the children's education, the whole family agrees. No man would dare question that, it's "womens work" raising the children. A man would lose face to argue about that.

Religion...Buddhisim...is the same way. If grandmother "suggests", no man would dare question her...again to avoid losing face.

So the fact that granny controls the children's education...and the family religion...gives her the real defacto control over the family.

Women are the real power in the Thai family....which is what "Up to you" really means.

[Mosha]

When a Thai woman says "Up to you", it is like when a Western woman says "Go ahead". You know that isn't permision, it's a challenge.

[Johpa]

When a Thai woman says "Up to you", it is like when a Western woman says "Go ahead". You know that isn't permision, it's a challenge.

Often more of a dare than a challenge.

[snuggzzz]

It firmly puts the ball in your court, so shine and let there be a rainbow...........................!!!!!!!

[jaideeguy]

I think when my wife [or any Thai] says 'up2u', it's their way of saying that you take total responsibility....not them. It WILL be YOUR fault if anything goes wrong. They are free of blame!!

[Maigo6]

my guess is that Thai women are basically taught consciously and subconsciously to be subservient, or well, to follow, be the back up, walk behind their husband, thus, the origin of 'up to you'??

Jeeez, you ain't got a clue mate.

[bonobo]

This is one of the most maddening things, to me, about dealing with Thais. While I am fully capable of making a decision, sometimes I want to cede that to someone else, or sometimes I really am ambivilent.

For example, I wanted to take a woman out to eat on her birthday recently. It was her birthday, and I wanted the dinner to be to her liking, so I asked her where she wanted to go.  "Up to you."  I tried to press her as I wanted it to be where she wanted, not where I felt like eating.  Finally, I was able to manage to extract that Japanese would be "OK," so I picked a Japanese restaurant.

I know this is minor on the overall scale of things, but it does get to me.

[thaimate]

my guess is that Thai women are basically taught consciously and subconsciously to be subservient, or well, to follow, be the back up, walk behind their husband, thus, the origin of 'up to you'??

dont know much about Thai women ,do you.

[freitag1]

As I mentioned in the other thread my gf says most Thai's don't like to think much so they just let someone else do the thinking and make the decision.

[soundman]

How on earth does the phrase "up to you" tie into subservient women?

It is a general phrase, used when somebody is going to do something silly, dodgy or illegal.

Such as:

- Should I overtake that car here? (double lines on a bridge)

- Up to you!

or

- Let's go out tonight. (Two fellas on a boys night out)

- Not sure if the missus will let me, however I'll try and make it.

- Up to you!

In other words make up your own mind and live with the consequences.

What has that got to do with the battle of the sexes?

[Maigo6]

What has that got to do with the battle of the sexes?

Absolutely nothing, but it may well result in yet ANOTHER thread bashing Thai women.

[Mosha]

Or Thai wives bashing Farang husbands

[bonobo]

How on earth does the phrase "up to you" tie into subservient women?

It is a general phrase, used when somebody is going to do something silly, dodgy or illegal.

Such as:

- Should I overtake that car here? (double lines on a bridge)

- Up to you!

or

- Let's go out tonight. (Two fellas on a boys night out)

- Not sure if the missus will let me, however I'll try and make it.

- Up to you!

In other words make up your own mind and live with the consequences.

What has that got to do with the battle of the sexes?

Actually, I hear the phrase regulary, and never about anything "dodgy" or "silly."

I hear it when discussing what we should do. I was supposed to meet a visiting American friend in Siam Reap last weekend, and I was tired and wasn't sure I wanted to make the drive, so I asked my Thai friend if she still wanted to go, and it was "up to you." (We ended up going, and later she admited she had strongly wanted to go, and we had a great time.) Or if there isn't a movie that really catches my attention, so I ask what she wants to see, and I get "up to you."

I happen to like most aspects of what we generalize as Thai culture and behavior. THis just isn't one of them, and I hardly think that is Thai bashing or that I am creating "yet ANOTHER thread bashing Thai women."

[samuibeachcomber]

How on earth does the phrase "up to you" tie into subservient women?

It is a general phrase, used when somebody is going to do something silly, dodgy or illegal.

Such as:

- Should I overtake that car here? (double lines on a bridge)

- Up to you!

or

- Let's go out tonight. (Two fellas on a boys night out)

- Not sure if the missus will let me, however I'll try and make it.

- Up to you!

In other words make up your own mind and live with the consequences.

What has that got to do with the battle of the sexes?

Actually, I hear the phrase regulary, and never about anything "dodgy" or "silly."

I hear it when discussing what we should do. I was supposed to meet a visiting American friend in Siam Reap last weekend, and I was tired and wasn't sure I wanted to make the drive, so I asked my Thai friend if she still wanted to go, and it was "up to you." (We ended up going, and later she admited she had strongly wanted to go, and we had a great time.) Or if there isn't a movie that really catches my attention, so I ask what she wants to see, and I get "up to you."

I happen to like most aspects of what we generalize as Thai culture and behavior. THis just isn't one of them, and I hardly think that is Thai bashing or that I am creating "yet ANOTHER thread bashing Thai women."

agree with you absolutely not thai bashing,its a thai idiosyncracy that i really like,although its happened to me a few times when my g/f has said up to you and i have made the decision and then come to realise later that it was the wrong decision.one time i wanted to go to the beach to have lunch,'up to you' was the response so we went,but it did not take me long that she had n't really wanted to go,now that can be annoying cos i reckon with "up to you " they have to accept the decision you make.

[Samuian]

......... Grandfather officially runs the house being the oldest. The real ruler is his wife...who controls the two important things in a Thai Chinese family...children and their education and Buddhisim and the family relationship with Buddhisim.

When grandmother "suggests" that money is needed for one of the children's education, the whole family agrees. No man would dare question that, it's "womens work" raising the children. A man would lose face to argue about that.

Religion...Buddhisim...is the same way. If grandmother "suggests", no man would dare question her...again to avoid losing face.

So the fact that granny controls the children's education...and the family religion...gives her the real defacto control over the family.

Women are the real power in the Thai family....which is what "Up to you" really means.

And if Grandma is "streetwise" or educated enough, it will be a successful clan!

Nothin' wrong with that, by the way,it's NOT entirely "Chinese wisdom" its still is largely in muslim communities this way and it used to be in European Communities this way, I remember my grandma too well, the wisdom combined with power and ability to influence things to go a certain (better) way.

"Up to you" - "go ahead, you will see" a simple shortcut instead of an argument of why, what, when, if, and then!

[Maigo6]

Personally I never have this experience as my GF happens to want to be with me and is happy to be in my company.

The ' Up To You ' responses may suggest they couldn't give a toss what you do.

[imaneggspurt]

They just dont complete the sentence ( up to you )" youre paying "!

[samuibeachcomber]

Personally I never have this experience as my GF happens to want to be with me and is happy to be in my company.

The ' Up To You ' responses may suggest they couldn't give a toss what you do.

well yes it could be if your having an argument about something but in general i think its abrogating responsibility for making a decision,just the thai way,letting you make the decision.

[Maigo6]

Personally I never have this experience as my GF happens to want to be with me and is happy to be in my company.

The ' Up To You ' responses may suggest they couldn't give a toss what you do.

well yes it could be if your having an argument about something but in general i think its abrogating responsibility for making a decision,just the thai way,letting you make the decision.

Nah, I prefer my oopinion of the matter, it's more confrontational and Farang bashing.

[samuibeachcomber]

Personally I never have this experience as my GF happens to want to be with me and is happy to be in my company.

The ' Up To You ' responses may suggest they couldn't give a toss what you do.

well yes it could be if your having an argument about something but in general i think its abrogating responsibility for making a decision,just the thai way,letting you make the decision.

Nah, I prefer my oopinion of the matter, it's more confrontational and Farang bashing.

up tp you

[PeaceBlondie]

I suspect that often, the decsions are left to the one in power, who will be influenced cleverly by those lower in the power structure. But he decides, and takes the credit (even the unstated blame). This phrase is used often by service workers, especially in the carnal occupations, to serve the customer.

I love to reply, "No! It's up to you, Khon Thai!" My boyfriend is picking out the colors of the floor tiles in our new home. I can always blame him.

[dave9988]

my guess is that Thai women are basically taught consciously and subconsciously to be subservient, or well, to follow, be the back up, walk behind their husband, thus, the origin of 'up to you'??

Oh you poor deluded man.

"Up to you" as any married man can tell has different meanings.

For example if you say, "I want to go out with the boys tomorrow night. Is that o.k. with you?". If she answers, "Up to you", that can mean anything for NO to IF YOU DO I'LL KICK YOUR A## (i.e. You'll be sleeping on the sofa for the next week....if you're lucky.)

Your problem is that you apparently believe that the MEN in Thaialnd are in charge, and the WOMEN are subservient. It is definately not the case.

Thai women (like women around the world, actually) let their men think they run things. That is just a running joke that women share among themselves.

I have a Thai Chinese friend. Grandfather officially runs the house being the oldest. The real ruler is his wife...who controls the two important things in a Thai Chinese family...children and their education and Buddhisim and the family relationship with Buddhisim.

When grandmother "suggests" that money is needed for one of the children's education, the whole family agrees. No man would dare question that, it's "womens work" raising the children. A man would lose face to argue about that.

Religion...Buddhisim...is the same way. If grandmother "suggests", no man would dare question her...again to avoid losing face.

So the fact that granny controls the children's education...and the family religion...gives her the real defacto control over the family.

Women are the real power in the Thai family....which is what "Up to you" really means.

No, if anything the joke is that Thai men pretend that Thai women are pretending that they are not the ones in control. Come on, you obviously have no idea how things work or are just basing these statements off of your own limited experiences.

[dave9988]

I love the way everyone relates my initial statement to their own life experiences and relationships, giving me a sobering and painful look at the harshness of humanity for the less intelligent and wealthy.

'Up to you' can simply be a response to "What movie do you want to see?" but from the majority of replies, it seems that you sad lot immediately relate this statement to your wife being confrontational.

"She always says that when I get drunk".

"She is trying to trick me!'

"She wants me to guess the wrong answer and blame me!"

Sad, sad, sad.

Edited January 2, 2009 by dave9988

[dave9988]

How on earth does the phrase "up to you" tie into subservient women?

It is a general phrase, used when somebody is going to do something silly, dodgy or illegal.

Such as:

- Should I overtake that car here? (double lines on a bridge)

- Up to you!

or

- Let's go out tonight. (Two fellas on a boys night out)

- Not sure if the missus will let me, however I'll try and make it.

- Up to you!

In other words make up your own mind and live with the consequences.

What has that got to do with the battle of the sexes?

Actually, I hear the phrase regulary, and never about anything "dodgy" or "silly."

I hear it when discussing what we should do. I was supposed to meet a visiting American friend in Siam Reap last weekend, and I was tired and wasn't sure I wanted to make the drive, so I asked my Thai friend if she still wanted to go, and it was "up to you." (We ended up going, and later she admited she had strongly wanted to go, and we had a great time.) Or if there isn't a movie that really catches my attention, so I ask what she wants to see, and I get "up to you."

I happen to like most aspects of what we generalize as Thai culture and behavior. THis just isn't one of them, and I hardly think that is Thai bashing or that I am creating "yet ANOTHER thread bashing Thai women."

Well said, Bonobo.

[dave9988]

Here is a post from a Thai, Heng, on whether its the males or females running things here.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Behaviour-Pr...74#entry2146274

[dave9988]

btw it is clear that Thai Wives seem to wear the pants in most of their relationships with farang males, hence the responses in this thread! So no, I do not have it wrong, I am just not being ruled like you are! Best keep those payments coming less you want to test out your flying skills off your balcony.

[imaneggspurt]

btw it is clear that Thai Wives seem to wear the pants in most of their relationships with farang males, hence the responses in this thread! So no, I do not have it wrong, I am just not being ruled like you are! Best keep those payments coming less you want to test out your flying skills off your balcony.

That will ring to home to a lot ! , . no, im adamant it means, " up to you, your paying " usually said when an alternative answer cant be thought of ( often ) or when they really dont care ,.

[silverhawk_usa]

This is one of the most maddening things, to me, about dealing with Thais. While I am fully capable of making a decision, sometimes I want to cede that to someone else, or sometimes I really am ambivilent.

For example, I wanted to take a woman out to eat on her birthday recently. It was her birthday, and I wanted the dinner to be to her liking, so I asked her where she wanted to go. "Up to you." I tried to press her as I wanted it to be where she wanted, not where I felt like eating. Finally, I was able to manage to extract that Japanese would be "OK," so I picked a Japanese restaurant.

I know this is minor on the overall scale of things, but it does get to me.

Absolutely agree 100%. This happens so often with my girlfriend it makes me crazy. I would like an honest opinion or suggestion and all I get is "up to you"! She has complained that we always do what I like or what my friends want and never consult her. So, next time we are making plans what is her opinion "Up to You!".

If I push for an answer then it is confrontational, "I hate when you push me!" Although I would truly like to do something I am sure is pleasing to her, I then get a statement to the effect "I don't want you to do something just because I want it!" Can't win.

[dave9988]

I thought about it the same way you did initially silverhawk, but I have really come to appreciate the "up to you" mentality as it puts me in the drivers seat of the relationship. the longer you stay in the relationship, the easier it will be to read her subtle hints at what she wants, likes and dislikes. Thai women are very subconscious about nagging and being the typical soap drama 'dtua-ma' wife. They also subconsciously view their worth in relation to their ability to make their male partner happy (i love Thailand). these facts seem to be cemented into thai society.

some ways that you can figure out your gf is to simply question her before these decisions are brought up on her likes and dislikes. just talk to her. ask her of her opinions, etc. she will let you know what she wants if you are paying attention, but will remain firmly in the passenger seat.