Loaded Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 They are a fascist organisation that saw an opportunity for publicity. Like all fascist organisations they use thuggery and ignorance to promote their stupidity. Obviously true. But shouldn't evil be RESISTED? These thugs clearly thought there would be no resistance. They were right. You think it is OK to leave it like that and give them their total victory for repression? At the very least, lets hope this action of the red shirts is broadcast around the world. The fact of what these red shirts really are can do damage to any international support from liberal democratic countries that the Thug in Chief, Mr. T, can ever return as PM for life. Totalitarian leaders always use scapegoats. Chavez of Venezuela is now scapegoating Jews, it doesn't matter if its from the right or the left. Is this question rhetorical or was it addressed to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allyt Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 There were no winners yesterday, only demonstrations of power. The power to dictate and the power to restrain. At 19:40 the magic bus moved on from the red & white marked curb / junction, where it blasted ear-splitting / damaging insults all afternoon and paraded down Changklan Road. At 19:45 the group which sat outside at the gate all afternoon, having water and spittle showered over them, walked into the car park to re-unite with their 'locked-in' colleagues. It was a very emotional end to the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Well, it seems that the fascist side of this "democratic" group is coming out in full colours, now. A shame (and stupid, really) for them to set themselves against gays as a group. You don't think it came out when they were lobbing bombs at people? Or killing the radio guy? Kinda sucks that this happened but I wonder if the Gov'r could be pressured into helping set up the event again AND offering protection? (Could be a VERY good PR thing for the HIV prevention/info group!) I think as long as the conflict was contained within the two 'political' groups (the reds and the yellows) they had some plausible deniability that they were a political group (although as you say a violent one). Stories like this show them dropping the facade and blatantly showing fascist colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbincm Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Red threats call off gay marchA few red-shirts also tried to break through police security in front of the stage to attack an organiser because they were upset that she had been taking their pictures. "Chiang Mai people cannot accept this and will stop the parade by all means, even violence." Thank you both for the photos... but please... stay safe. From the four pictures Ally posted it was the girl in the pink shirt in the bottom right corner of the bottom right picture they tried to attack and grab her camera. The police intervened quickly and restrained the red guys - only active thing I saw them do all day Should add I was watching from a safe distance........Heard a few days ago the red shirts were planning to protest but I'd dismissed it as rumour only. There could be no logical reason for doing so. As it was I'd say the reds scored a massive own goal! Firstly, the cancellation of the parade will give the event much more publicity than would otherwise have been the case. Secondly, far from upholding Lanna culture, the red shirts portrayed Chiang Mai as a city full of selfish intollerant thugs with no respect for the rule of law or the rights of anybody else. Just what CM tourist business needs right now....... I agree with Thailiban's comments, its a disappointment the parade didn't go ahead, any violence by the reds would have generated a whole load more publicity and made them look even more ridiculous than they did yesterday. From what I saw most of the mob were paid thugs from the surrounding countryside, real lo-so types who wouldn't know thai culture from lao kao. Far from educated I suspect most would have been hard pressed to write their own name! Pity the police didn't bring the mobile urine testing unit with them, I'm sure that would have been a quick way to reduce their numbers Though it might have had a similar effect on the parade too........ I think the real story has nothing to do with gay parade, but was an excuse for the Red's to be on the streets and get at something they saw as being organised by the yellows - though I can't understand how they make that connection. Guess we'll have to wait for the CM mail to tell us that I live in the 'surrounding countryside'--just outside a small farming village. The people here are NOT thugs, nor are they uneducated--for example, the son of the older couple who run the local store has a degree from CMU in psychology, and is now in the USA studying for a Master's. The locals do have an awareness of their own culture, and treasure it. As a result, they are not happy about taking the worst (whatever that is, McDonalds, lack of respect for parents, etc) from Western culture and losing the best of their own culture--which many farangs may not even try to understand. Even if what you, perhaps unwisely, wrote, was true--why do you suppose it would be necessary to be able to 'write your own name' in order to have feelings about whatever is happening in your own society and your rears about that? Whatever the reason was for the red-shirts' unfortunate involvement, (my own view is that they want the publicity--probably the same reason that they joined in a farmers' protest at City Hall last week), I was there yesterday, and did not see any drunks or obviously stoned people on either side. Keep a clear head, why don't you, and don't have the Thai people think that all farangs believe as you do. Some of us actually do want to be able to stay here! okinasan most of the gay community now know who to blame - yes the red shirts caused the trouble - but why - because of some gay people who did not want the parade - and tried to do their best to stop it. If you were there you would have seen how frightening it became. the red shirts got the publicity they wanted - but how much will it cost them and ordinary Thai folk in the end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) The people here are NOT thugs, Great to hear. So are they in support of the thugs or not in support of thugs because the red shirts that stopped the parade are clearly thugs. The pictures tell you that. It sounds to me like you just lamely rationalized thuggish violence as a means to an end. Interesting. Is this question rhetorical or was it addressed to me? Loaded, it was rhetorical. most of the gay community now know who to blame - yes the red shirts caused the trouble - but why - because of some gay people who did not want the parade This sounds incredibly far fetched. The red shirt thugs showed up to support one side of an internal gay dispute? You expect people to really believe that? Edited February 22, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 If the story of the Chiang Mai radio station operator being MURDERED by RED shirted Thaksin supporters is true - and I have seen no evidence it is false - then we know what red shirted mobs and thugs represent in Northern Thailand. A shame to Thailand, and to Buddhism, and to heterosexual Thais. This is no time for mai bpen rai. Let's not return evil with evil, but overcome evil and lethargy with right action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) Let's not return evil with evil, but overcome evil and lethargy with right action. I don't pretend to have the right response but could you be more specific what you mean? If they are indeed murderous thugs, you basically have three choices: -- be as bad as they are -- surrender (what has happened so far) -- carry on and take the hits in a Gandhi like manner Yes, I do think the third choice is the heroic choice. But it would have to come from Thai gays. And if they don't feel the need and/or have the courage for that, then I guess it will stand, the thugs rule. Edited February 22, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 From Matichon article (in Thai): http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...01&catid=19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) Here is the google translation. Pork blood water? Chiang Mai be turbulent red shirt gay network. ปาถุงน้ำเลือดหมูเน่าใส่ Spa bag pork blood contamination entering the water. ขู่"สรยุทธ"ให้ระวังตัว Threat "created strategist" to be vigilant.เครือข่ายเกย์ประชุมจัดงานพาเหรด Gay network organized a meeting in evidence. เจอเสื้อแดงเชียงใหม่ป่วน Chiang Mai be turbulent เจอ red shirt. ปาถุงน้ำเลือดหมูเน่าใส่ Spa bag pork blood contamination entering the water. ชายเสื้อแดงฝากนักข่าวบอก"สรยุทธ"ให้ระวังตัว Flap red leaves journalists tell "create strategist" to be vigilant. แกนนำความหลากหลายทางเพศงง Backbone sexual diversity dizziness. รับเกิดมาไม่เคยเจอ Been born not met. เมื่อ วันที่ 21 กุมภาพันธ์ เวลา 16.45 น. กลุ่มรักเชียงใหม่ 51 ประมาณ 80 คน รวมตัวกันที่หน้าพุทธสถาน อ.เมือง จ.เชียงใหม่ ขับไล่กลุ่มเครือข่ายความหลากหลายทางเพศและองค์กรภาคี จำนวน 22 องค์กร ซึ่งกำลังเตรียมจัดรูปขบวนพาเหรดเชียงใหม่เกย์ไพร์ด ครั้งที่ 2 อยู่ภายในพุทธสถาน On February 21 at 16:45 am the love Chiang Mai approximately 51 to 80 people together, Muang District, Chiang Mai Buddhist page expel diversity network groups sexual partners a total of 22 enterprises and organizations which are prepared by a magnificent. Chiang Mai Gay's quiet on the inside Buddhist 2. โดยคนเสื้อแดงได้ตะโกนด่าทอกลุ่มเกย์ทั้งชาวไทยและชาวต่างประเทศที่มาร่วมกิจกรรมด้วยถ้อยคำหยาบคาย A red shirt out of the gay group condemn both Thais and foreigners to join the activities with obscene words. พร้อมทั้งโยนถุงน้ำเลือดหมูเน่าสีแดงข้นเข้าใส่กลุ่มเกย์ทั้งหมด Throw bags of water with blood red thick pork contamination to enter all the gay group. จากนั้นปิดประตูทางเข้าที่มีอยู่สองด้านปิดล้อมไม่ให้กลุ่มขบวนพาเหรดออกไปจากพุทธสถาน Then close the door to the two sides to enclose the magnificent Buddhist leave. ต่อมา พ.ต.อ.ยุทธชัย พัวประเสริฐ ผกก.สภ.เมืองเชียงใหม่ นำกำลังกว่า 50 นาย รักษาความปลอดภัย Later P.t.a. strategist golden ผกก.สภ. Chiang Mai Poor devil is more than 50 leading security said. พร้อมเจรจากับนายพงศ์ธร จันทร์เลื่อน ผู้แทนเครือข่ายความหลากหลายทางเพศ Negotiations with the family said Monday ธร move the network instead of sexual diversity. ให้ยกเลิกกิจกรรม To cancel events. เพราะเกรงว่ากำลังเจ้าหน้าที่จะต้านกลุ่มรักเชียงใหม่ 51 ไม่อยู่ It is fear that will not dampen the love Chiang Mai is 51. นายพงศ์ธรกล่าวว่า Mr. ธร family said. ต้องการเดินรณรงค์สร้างความเข้าใจแก่ประชาชนเกี่ยวกับการทำงานด้านเพศ Want to create a campaign for public understanding about the work of sex. เอชไอวี/เอดส์ HIV / AIDS. แต่ยินดีเจรจากับแกนนำเพื่ออธิบายเหตุผล But happy to negotiate with the core reasons why. แต่หากไม่ต้องการให้เดินรณรงค์ก็จะหยุด If you do not want the campaign to stop it. ยอมรับว่าเกิดมาไม่เคยพบเจออะไรแบบนี้มาก่อน Agree that born เจอ never found anything quite like this before. ผู้สื่อข่าวรายงานว่า Journalists reported. นอกจากนี้ยังมีชายสวมเสื้อแดงสวมหมวกดำคนหนึ่งเข้ามาหาสื่อมวลชนของสถานีโทรทัศน์ช่องหนึ่งที่ทำข่าวอยู่ There is also a man wearing red shirt, one wearing a black hat to come to the media of television station Channel One News is doing. พร้อมกับฝากไปถึงนายสรยุทธ สุทัศนะจินดา จากรายการเรื่องเล่าเช้านี้ With deposit to create strategist said bow narrative perspective gem from the list this morning. ด้วยว่าไม่พอใจการทำงานและให้ระวังตัวให้ดี Not satisfied with the work and to be vigilant. จึงเกิดการโต้เถียงกันเล็กน้อย Is a little scuffle. Edited February 22, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I don't agree that Thailand is a paradise for Thai gays and I don't agree that they don't face a good amount of discrimination in their own society. But I can't really speak for Thai gays, and neither can you. I certainly don't claim to speak for ALL Thai gays but I can certainly speak from my experience with many very average/typical gay Thai people I know. Discrimination in Thai society? not much. The butt of some jokes and teasing, sure. More issues seem to abound inside of families belonging to certain sub-sets of Thais than come from "society". Pressure in Thai-Chinese families to marry and produce grandkids etc ... some religious pressure in the 5%+ families that are Muslim etc .... Buddhism has little to say about homosexuality at all and this is reflected in the society-at-large's not really caring about the sexuality of it's members here. A group of us spoke about "discrimination" against gays in Thai society tonight at dinner and afterwards and their response was that there is little or none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 A group of us spoke about "discrimination" against gays in Thai society tonight at dinner and afterwards and their response was that there is little or none. Except for parades? Like I said, you don't speak for Thai people. Purely anecdotal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 A group of us spoke about "discrimination" against gays in Thai society tonight at dinner and afterwards and their response was that there is little or none. Except for parades? Like I said, you don't speak for Thai people. Purely anecdotal. LOL --- actually I am in this case speaking for Thai people; but as noted, not ALL Thai people. The difference between us may be that I have Thai friends and understand Thai Their response (like many board members) was that this was not about gays at all ... it was about keeping the red shirts in the news. Purely anecdotal? Yes my experience is my experience and in this case the experience of a group of Thai friends ... but I welcome you to tell us all about discrimination against gay Thais here in Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbincm Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The people here are NOT thugs, Great to hear. So are they in support of the thugs or not in support of thugs because the red shirts that stopped the parade are clearly thugs. The pictures tell you that. It sounds to me like you just lamely rationalized thuggish violence as a means to an end. Interesting. Is this question rhetorical or was it addressed to me? Loaded, it was rhetorical. most of the gay community now know who to blame - yes the red shirts caused the trouble - but why - because of some gay people who did not want the parade This sounds incredibly far fetched. The red shirt thugs showed up to support one side of an internal gay dispute? You expect people to really believe that? incredible - but definately true - accountable documentation - gay people enlisting red shirts who they support anway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 incredible - but definately true - accountable documentation - gay people enlisting red shirts who they support anway I will give you that this is possible. It doesn't change what happened though and that the red shirts did it. Where is the evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 The people here are NOT thugs, Great to hear. So are they in support of the thugs or not in support of thugs because the red shirts that stopped the parade are clearly thugs. The pictures tell you that. It sounds to me like you just lamely rationalized thuggish violence as a means to an end. Interesting. Is this question rhetorical or was it addressed to me? Loaded, it was rhetorical. most of the gay community now know who to blame - yes the red shirts caused the trouble - but why - because of some gay people who did not want the parade This sounds incredibly far fetched. The red shirt thugs showed up to support one side of an internal gay dispute? You expect people to really believe that? incredible - but definately true - accountable documentation - gay people enlisting red shirts who they support anway then document it ... sounds bogus (totally), as bogus as the persecution claims! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) For the record I never said Thai gays are persecuted as JD lamely implies. There are levels. From persecution to 100 percent equal rights. The situation for Thai gays is obviously somewhere BETWEEN those two extremes. No Thais are needed to draw that conclusion; all you have to know is that Thai gays cannot marry under the law. Now they may not CARE about this, but the facts remain. Edited February 23, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 A group of us spoke about "discrimination" against gays in Thai society tonight at dinner and afterwards and their response was that there is little or none. Except for parades? Like I said, you don't speak for Thai people. Purely anecdotal. huh? and yes there was a clear response ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Time to stop bickering please. Vacations are available for those who don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Jiang Mai Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 This whole thing is getting outrageous. I don't understand why this 51 group is getting away with claiming representation for Chiang Mai values. Their behaviour is utterly unacceptable. But then who has the guts to stand against them. Talking to my staff they are actually scared of the red lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 This whole thing is getting outrageous. I don't understand why this 51 group is getting away with claiming representation for Chiang Mai values. Their behaviour is utterly unacceptable. But then who has the guts to stand against them. Talking to my staff they are actually scared of the red lot. As well they should be. Those thugs are murderers that will not hesitate to throw grenades into groups of people. (Those saying that the parade organizers should have stood up to them obviously didn't think about the potential deaths that could occur!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollylama Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 what still perplexes me is this: how could a mere 30 protesters stop an entire parade? surely the cops could have kept them contained? from the pictures i've seen they were mostly made up of old fogeys and children. they forcibly locked people in? with cops around? how is such a thing possible? i wish i'd been there to see just what kind of superweapon they must have been carrying. a neutron bomb? anthrax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 what still perplexes me is this: how could a mere 30 protesters stop an entire parade? surely the cops could have kept them contained? from the pictures i've seen they were mostly made up of old fogeys and children.they forcibly locked people in? with cops around? how is such a thing possible? i wish i'd been there to see just what kind of superweapon they must have been carrying. a neutron bomb? anthrax? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2549972 take a look at the pic in that post ..... think about the history of murder and bombs used by the reds ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I am torn on this one. When you cave into to thugs, they win. You can even call them terrorists because they terrified people from living their lives peacefully as they wished to do. But dying for a gay parade? I think some people in some countries have done so, but for me it wouldn't be worth it. I have been tear gassed and risked being beaten at protests before but never brave enough to really risk being killed for a political cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravelrash Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I see this post has by far the largest amount of both views and replies, with the dog kicking post in a distant second. Could one infer some Chiang Mai demographics into that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I was initially in favor of the Gay Pride Parade, but when I questioned my Thai staff how they felt about it and the red shirt’s interference, they told me that most local Thais feel like this is coming from foreign influence and intervention in their affairs and that it is "against Thai culture". They feel that there is little bigotry towards Gays in Thailand and that having a parade is way over the top as there is no parade for heterosexuals. They also said that if people want to celebrate that day, there are plenty of gay bars and clubs where they can do what they wish in privacy, but having a parade about it is just not the Thai way. Having a Gay Pride parade in Sydney or San Francisco makes a lot of sense, but if this is really how most Thais feel, perhaps we need to consider their feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) I was initially in favor of the Gay Pride Parade, but when I questioned my Thai staff how they felt about it and the red shirt’s interference, they told me that most local Thais feel like this is coming from foreign influence and intervention in their affairs and that it is "against Thai culture". They feel that there is little bigotry towards Gays in Thailand and that having a parade is way over the top as there is no parade for heterosexuals. They also said that if people want to celebrate that day, there are plenty of gay bars and clubs where they can do what they wish in privacy, but having a parade about it is just not the Thai way. Having a Gay Pride parade in Sydney or San Francisco makes a lot of sense, but if this is really how most Thais feel, perhaps we need to consider their feelings. BS. So the majority crushes the rights of the minority? Do you think the majority of Americans support gay pride parades? If I am not mistaken, BTW, you are a long time Thaksin supporter, yes? My caveat on this is that I do think these gay events are best organized by Thai gay people. If there aren't enough Thai gay people interested in organizing them, then I do think foreigners should back off. Edited February 23, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I was initially in favor of the Gay Pride Parade, but when I questioned my Thai staff how they felt about it and the red shirt’s interference, they told me that most local Thais feel like this is coming from foreign influence and intervention in their affairs and that it is "against Thai culture". They feel that there is little bigotry towards Gays in Thailand and that having a parade is way over the top as there is no parade for heterosexuals. They also said that if people want to celebrate that day, there are plenty of gay bars and clubs where they can do what they wish in privacy, but having a parade about it is just not the Thai way. Having a Gay Pride parade in Sydney or San Francisco makes a lot of sense, but if this is really how most Thais feel, perhaps we need to consider their feelings. BS. So the majority crushes the rights of the minority? Do you think the majority of Americans support gay pride parades? Thailand isn't America. The Thais have never had to fight to have homosexuality decriminalised because it's never been a criminal offence in the first place. It's bizarre to watch western gays move to Thailand to enjoy the more relaxed attitude to homosexuality only to try and import all their western cultural baggage with them. It's almost colonial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) I agree Thailand isn't America. It also isn't a paradise for gay Thais and especially gay transgendered people. These gay parades have occurred ORGANICALLY from the local population in scores of countries all over the world. Sometimes they have deep political implications and sometimes they don't (when they first start, they usually do). Yes, the original idea came from the west, but people in many cultures have felt that it meant something to them to do similar things. I would agree we shouldn't push it if the desire for this does not come from gay Thai people. If gay Thai people want these kinds of events, I also do not see any harm in foreigners supporting them if they wish, and if we are offended by groups like the red thugs, well, why shouldn't we be? We may be foreigners and have no status here, but hopefully we still retain our hearts and minds. Edited February 23, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajarnpim Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 i get slightly annoyed when i hear that the stats say cnx air is ok. Have the pricks that put so much store in these "stats" visited the air monitoring stations understand when my kids cant breathe. Today was a good day for breathing sirancha john, you seem to want to provoke people in chiang mai into a debate which I fully Chiang mai aint perfect............. no where is but today it was great. Its all about perception and being happy in my simple opinion. It was hot though and the mekong has nearly dried up. I want 8 kids do u think its a goood time to bring kids into this blighted planet have u got any stas useless aka priceless. mapguy ur last posts have been risible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 i get slightly annoyed when i hear that the stats say cnx air is ok.Have the pricks that put so much store in these "stats" visited the air monitoring stations understand when my kids cant breathe. Today was a good day for breathing sirancha john, you seem to want to provoke people in chiang mai into a debate which I fully Chiang mai aint perfect............. no where is but today it was great. Its all about perception and being happy in my simple opinion. It was hot though and the mekong has nearly dried up. I want 8 kids do u think its a goood time to bring kids into this blighted planet have u got any stas useless aka priceless. mapguy ur last posts have been risible. I'm sorry, ajarnpim, but I believe you got my Chiang Mai threads mixed up. You most likely intended to post the above reply in my other thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirts-F...hi-t242684.html Red Shirts Fighting Red Shirts In Chiang Mai, five injured at railway station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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