Governor Petitioned To Ban The Second Chiang Mai Gay Pride Parade

[jdinasia]

I think that the six pages written about this event has shown that there is indeed a necessity for such a parade. There is a lot of ignorance about gay-related issues. These people are trying to raise awareness and do a good thing. If you want to go, go, if you don't want to go, avoid it. Nothing is being shoved in anyone's faces, the Chinese community held a Chinese new year celebratoin recently, on children's day they hold a celebration, yada yada. No harm, and possible gain. So what is the problem. MPlus is an excellent organisation, their article in The Nation was very well written and had pertinent points. Chiang Mai is a city of diversity, let's celebrate it and if it helps MPlus to prevent spreak of HIV, then all the better. Go gays!

Hear Hear!

[Tyke]

In the US and many other countries all over the world, even today, gay young people commit suicide in much greater percentage than others. Heteros think that is because they are sad they are gay. But they are wrong, the reason is that they are rejected by their families, friends, religions, etc. for being gay and their self esteem is crushed and adolescents have limited coping ability.

And that's is so intense sad! And for what? We are all human beings and we all do descent from the monkeys.

Yes, we all descend from monkeys, but some descend from monkeys more than others

[Jingthing]

The Gay Pride Events have from the beginning been organized by Thai people. NGO's working in the field of AIDS, trying to bring equality to LGBT.

Can you prove this? I don't know about CM but my understanding is that the early Bangkok gay days were started by foreigners, but then later Thai groups took it over. In Pattaya, there are smaller scale gay pride events every year, I have never detected any hint of Thais being behind their organization. Rather they seem more as PR events for certain foreign owned gay hotels and go go bars though they do raise money for good causes of benefit to locals. If I am wrong about this, glad to hear it. Phuket also has events.

I do realize that gay events throughout the world can be very meaningful to the local people. In some countries the marchers must wear masks, in some cases they are beat up and/or arrested. My feeling however in Thailand is that the origin of the gay day events did NOT come organically from the local Thai population. I can't prove that either, just my impression from over the years.

Edited February 6, 2009 by Jingthing

[Paagai]

I don't know about CM but my understanding is that the early Bangkok gay days were started by foreigners, but then later Thai groups took it over.

Let's not go there with Bangkok pride, that really would be opening a can of worms! Somethings are definitely best left in the closet

[jupiterandromeda]

The Gay Pride Events have from the beginning been organized by Thai people. NGO's working in the field of AIDS, trying to bring equality to LGBT.

Can you prove this? I don't know about CM but my understanding is that the early Bangkok gay days were started by foreigners, but then later Thai groups took it over. In Pattaya, there are smaller scale gay pride events every year, I have never detected any hint of Thais being behind their organization. Rather they seem more as PR events for certain foreign owned gay hotels and go go bars though they do raise money for good causes of benefit to locals. If I am wrong about this, glad to hear it. Phuket also has events.

I do realize that gay events throughout the world can be very meaningful to the local people. In some countries the marchers must wear masks, in some cases they are beat up and/or arrested. My feeling however in Thailand is that the origin of the gay day events did NOT come organically from the local Thai population. I can't prove that either, just my impression from over the years.

Sorry, did not mean to mislead. The Gay Pride Event in CM was started by Thais. Dont know about BKK or Phuket.

[jupiterandromeda]

I think that the six pages written about this event has shown that there is indeed a necessity for such a parade. There is a lot of ignorance about gay-related issues. These people are trying to raise awareness and do a good thing. If you want to go, go, if you don't want to go, avoid it. Nothing is being shoved in anyone's faces, the Chinese community held a Chinese new year celebratoin recently, on children's day they hold a celebration, yada yada. No harm, and possible gain. So what is the problem. MPlus is an excellent organisation, their article in The Nation was very well written and had pertinent points. Chiang Mai is a city of diversity, let's celebrate it and if it helps MPlus to prevent spreak of HIV, then all the better. Go gays!

Hear Hear!

Thank you. It is as some people have commented on the number of negative, inaccurate and hateful comments coming from many that this Gay Pride Event is necessary.

[jupiterandromeda]

Great idea if they can get a nice polite walk around the moat etc and promote the idea that just like heterosexuals gays too lead normal lives (jobs, relationships etc)

Horrible idea if it's just another time for all the ladyboys and other gays to over exaggerate where white shirts, no bras, cowboy hats and dance to really loud Loog Tung from the back of a pickup like it's sonkran.

No matter the race or creed there are those who will set bad examples and whether they are the majority or minority the whole will be remembered by their actions. I hope this is not the case

I think if people want to express themselves why not. There is always a festive event when people go crazy. Mardi Gras. You cannot control how people want to dress any more than you can control clouds.

These are not bad examples these are wonderful expressions of personal expression/ You all have to get over these narrow confines of gender identity.

[jupiterandromeda]

have to say that i find it quite scary that there are still people who think that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, like being a punk or a teddy boy. read some books, guys.

It is a lifestyle choice.. You didn't choose to be 'gay' but you can choose your lifestyle.. You can get on with your life, study, get a career find a soul mate and live happily ever after with hardly anybody showing any negative interest in your life..

OR

You can dye your hair pink, wear outrageous coustumes, camp it up and talk with a pronounced list.. Wave your limp wrist around and do your best to walk like a Marilyn Monroe caricature in high heels..shouting 'what a gay day'...

This is the difference.. The first guy blends in and mixes with society... The second flaunts his sexuality and does his best to alienate himself.. while complaining that nobody accepts him..

If you are gay no problem.. do you job, enjoy your life.... Just don't tell me about it... and I won't bore you with my sexual pecadilos...

Actually, I am gay and not a bleeding heart, and have never been outrageously gay in any way - quite sober and mainly closeted, so i fit into the first category. This has never protected me from the bullies and hateful homophobes all my life. So this statement clearly shows complete ignorance of what many gays, especially closetted gays, have to go through, often on a daily basis. Trying to 'fit' in to a straight society does not, I repeat does not, necessarily in itself lead to a 'happy', integrated life-style. So please, don't try to give people like me advice on how happiness can be achieved in my life style as you obviously haven't a clue. Stick to what you know.

Thank you

[jupiterandromeda]

All I ask is why do gays need a parade? I don't see parades for heterosexuals. Parades just plug up the traffic in already over crowded streets.

I am gay and agree - I have always been completely bored with, and never seen the point of, all that show, fake jolity and blokes dressed up as girlies on the backs of trucks. It just seems an excuse for the trannies to put on their skirts and blouses. I often wonder if it is counterproductive with the public - it certainly doesn't tell them anything about me and most gays I know (actually all gays I know). Can't we have something different and maybe more cultural and a bit more serious or down to earth - or aren't we gays capable of doing anything in public except putting on the pink or back-stabbing people who don't smile through it all?

Actually I agree with you about all the dressing up. It can be fun but seems over the top. But festive expression is important, Maybe because I used to do theatre, dressing up to go out seems old hat.

Something more cultural is planned, more sedate. However people are coming from Phuket and BKKK so it should show the whole cultural mix of LGBT society in T now....

[jupiterandromeda]

My complaint about gay pride parades is basically two-fold. First, these parades are sometimes in large part grossly self-indulgent. Pretty childish, really. Second, it is true that Thai culture is in some respects very tolerant of sexual diversity, but the vulgar displays one often sees in such parades is really not consistent with Thai traditions of modest behavior in public.

I would agree with the above, the situation in Thailand is very different to how the west used to be. I would even suspect it may not be a good idea to ram one on these parades down the Thais throat.

Aside from that I'll be steering clear of any place that has you lot gyrating in g-strings on the back of a float. My kids know my brother is gay and it is irrelevant, however the sight of a gay pride march might well change that to thinking he is some kind of weirdo.

There is nothing wrong with self indulgence, if it doesnm't go on too long! It is the Thais ramming down thai throats in CM so ....

As to gyrating in g-strings.....why do you remember these images?

[PeaceBlondie]

Oh please Jupiter and Romeda, if you start talking about things being rammed down throats, also, I may gag.....

Great to see an event getting all this publicity, so that the diners at Duke's can have something more to talk about.

[jupiterandromeda]

Oh please Jupiter and Romeda, if you start talking about things being rammed down throats, also, I may gag.....

Great to see an event getting all this publicity, so that the diners at Duke's can have something more to talk about.

True too true. Sorry....It's just peoples imaginations sometimes. I mean really. It's just a parade in Chiang Mai Thailand, for Buddha's sake.

[ilovecm]

The Gay Pride Events have from the beginning been organized by Thai people. NGO's working in the field of AIDS, trying to bring equality to LGBT.

Can you prove this? I don't know about CM but my understanding is that the early Bangkok gay days were started by foreigners, but then later Thai groups took it over. In Pattaya, there are smaller scale gay pride events every year, I have never detected any hint of Thais being behind their organization. Rather they seem more as PR events for certain foreign owned gay hotels and go go bars though they do raise money for good causes of benefit to locals. If I am wrong about this, glad to hear it. Phuket also has events.

I do realize that gay events throughout the world can be very meaningful to the local people. In some countries the marchers must wear masks, in some cases they are beat up and/or arrested. My feeling however in Thailand is that the origin of the gay day events did NOT come organically from the local Thai population. I can't prove that either, just my impression from over the years.

The Chiang Mai Gay Pride is definately organised by Thai People - MPlus. Also one of the Nation's columnist has come out - February 6 - Dont shoot the Elephant - INFAVOUR of the Gay Pride going ahead - talking about the double standards of the people trying to stop this event - VERY infromative. Is the local press going to write about it - or keep quiet as usual?

[Ulysses G.]

Oh please Jupiter and Romeda, if you start talking about things being rammed down throats, also, I may gag.....

Great to see an event getting all this publicity, so that the diners at Duke's can have something more to talk about.

Some people like having things rammed down their throats!

[PeaceBlondie]

Oh please Jupiter and Romeda, if you start talking about things being rammed down throats, also, I may gag.....

Great to see an event getting all this publicity, so that the diners at Duke's can have something more to talk about.

Some people like having things rammed down their throats!

Yes, even if it makes us gag! But we do not rape gay men, and they need not fear us.

[jupiterandromeda]

Oh please Jupiter and Romeda, if you start talking about things being rammed down throats, also, I may gag.....

Great to see an event getting all this publicity, so that the diners at Duke's can have something more to talk about.

Some people like having things rammed down their throats!

Yes, even if it makes us gag! But we do not rape gay men, and they need not fear us.

All this talk of homosexual acts from hetrosexuals is a little bit off setting. I know we're expanding our gender identity and I appreciate that, but perhaps you could form a group and send reports. And not be so graphic. My lover is listening. GEE.

[catmac]

they got arrested for having group sex in a hotel hardly the same as a group mincing themselves into a frenzy in front of small chidren. there are also plenty of online sites for extreme homos.you are the only ones with a great opinion of yourselves hence the need for you to keep having these parades so you can make a spectacle of your selves. boasting ego ? re gay parade . dont talk about children they are something you will never have if you are truly gay and not just indulging your own selfish perversions .

Such words of compassion and tolerance!

Never really been in to all this Gay Pride stuff, only went to 1 back in U.K., but maybe I'll go along this year to see all that "mincing themselves into a frenzy" caper .... sounds quite hilarious!

My God, malcy, I really think you should seek help for your paranoia!

[peekint]

It seems to me that the gist of the above discussions comes down to "why a gay pride parade?" or "why not a heterosexual pride parade"?

First, let me identify myself. I'm head of LYC Chiang Mai. I'm writing from a biased position, since our group has chosen to support the Chiang Mai 2nd Gay Parade on February 21.

( http://www.chiangmaigaypride.com/ )

On the other hand, I don't see anyone else here writing from a 'neutral' position, do you?

Let me add that the opinions expressed below are that of the author and are not to be construed as representative or supported by any group, company, society, or world of which he is a member.

Let's supplement the question "Why a Gay Pride Parade" with a series of supplementary questions.

- why a St. Patrick's Day Parade?

- why a Columbus Day Parade?

- why a Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade?

- why not a "Single Straight Men from Hampsted who drink Ale" parade?

The answer is not hard. Cultural ritual. Like it or not, every cultural group has, or develops, rituals which serve to unite the group, support the groups identity against the cultural majority identity, and provide a continuous thread of consciousness from one generation to the next.

The St. Patrick's day parade serves that purpose for diaspora Irish, as does the Columbus Day parade for Italians. The Thanksgiving Day parade has become a cultural ritual for the young country of the United States, a country of diverse backgrounds and cultures which has somehow been able to assemble a culture and identity of its own in just over 200 years.

And, I would say, if the Straights from Hampsted have a cultural identity, a cohesiveness, a community, I don't see why they shouldn't have a parade, too. But I suspect that this group has yet to coalesce and develop cultural roots.

Whether you are straight and wondering why Gays need a parade, or Gay and wondering why you need it for yourself, the point is moot. If the Gay Community has developed Gay Pride parades as part of its cultural identity over the past fifty or so years (the first identifiable modern parade was in the 1950's, though there were some in Europe in the 1920's), why should government or Kulturfaschist movements have the right to say - "we don't like your culture - you can't do it"?

Whether Gay people have built a cultural identity outside of the bedroom is no longer subject to debate. Gay culture meets all the anthropological and social criteria of a true "culture". The scope of that culture, whether it has yet to reach globally, is under discussion, but no one disputes that with the internet, satellite TV, and unrestricted travel between most nations, the culture is growing, evolving, and maturing.

So, the question is not, "Why a Gay Parade", but "Why not?"

http://www.chiangmaigaypride.com

[jdinasia]

Well said .. but daily life as a man in this world is the presumption that you are str8. As a gay man living anywhere outside of a gay ghetto your whole life is watching a hetero-parade. I rarely find it offensive though.

[Ijustwannateach]

More power to them if it helps either gays or charities, though I would be very skeptical over the chance that any 'Gay Pride Parade' was entirely Thai-inspired- whether it comes under the auspices of a Thai-led organisation or not. Does that mean that it is actually routinely and *primarily* attended by a representative group of gay Thais, unlike most of the other so-called 'Gay Pride Parades' that take place around Thailand? If so, it would be worth attending, indeed- a gay pride parade not primarily sponsored, promoted, or attended by foreigners or the kinds of gay Thais who are most typically found around groups of foreigners would be an eye-opener. I'm not holding my breath, though.

The only truly Thai-led gay/sexual diversity pride/awareness parade I know of in Thailand was the one held at the National Human Rights Day for Sexual Diversity Conference not long ago, which unsurprisingly seemed to be of little interest to the foreign gay community.

[ilovecm]

More power to them if it helps either gays or charities, though I would be very skeptical over the chance that any 'Gay Pride Parade' was entirely Thai-inspired- whether it comes under the auspices of a Thai-led organisation or not. Does that mean that it is actually routinely and *primarily* attended by a representative group of gay Thais, unlike most of the other so-called 'Gay Pride Parades' that take place around Thailand? If so, it would be worth attending, indeed- a gay pride parade not primarily sponsored, promoted, or attended by foreigners or the kinds of gay Thais who are most typically found around groups of foreigners would be an eye-opener. I'm not holding my breath, though.

The only truly Thai-led gay/sexual diversity pride/awareness parade I know of in Thailand was the one held at the National Human Rights Day for Sexual Diversity Conference not long ago, which unsurprisingly seemed to be of little interest to the foreign gay community.

if you do not believe it was entirely Thai - inspired - suggestion - contact MPlus yourself 053-814-487 or via their web page which has a contact set up - ask them!

[Paagai]

First, let me identify myself. I'm head of LYC Chiang Mai. I'm writing from a biased position, since our group has chosen to support the Chiang Mai 2nd Gay Parade on February 21.

Well, that kills the theory there are no Farangs involved! Guess Endure was right afterall

- why not a "Single Straight Men from Hampsted who drink Ale" parade?

They have straight men in Hampsted? My mother always warned me about the men on Hampsted heath; somewhere to be avoided for risk of getting something rammed down your throat me thinks.

Joking aside, have to agree with Peekint's post, though I hope LYC aren't going to push any Farang influences into the planning. I think the event has much more credibility if it's organised by Thais and primarily for Thais. Though I'm sure MPlus will welcome all the Farang Satang they can get

To pick up on a couple of posts in this thread about scaring the children. Why should this be the case? The only reason a five year old would question two men holding hands is because they'd already been told it was wrong by their parents/teachers indoctrinating them with homophic thinking. Surely it's an easy enough explanation: some men are different and love other men. This concept can be explained to a five year old quite easily to aid their understanding of the world, without needing to mention buggery, felatio, pedophilia, perverted, or whatever other aspects of us poof's lives that sadly seem to be the first thoughts of many adult hetrosexuals when the word "gay" is mentioned.

Equally, the gay community should be responsible for policing the parade to ensure there are no display's of public affection or too sexually provocative acts that breach Thailand's moral code and give credence to some of the anti-parade arguments put forward in this thread.

[peekint]

First, let me identify myself. I'm head of LYC Chiang Mai. I'm writing from a biased position, since our group has chosen to support the Chiang Mai 2nd Gay Parade on February 21.

Well, that kills the theory there are no Farangs involved! Guess Endure was right afterall

(the opinions expressed below are that of the author and are not to be construed as representative or supported by any group, company, society, or world of which he is a member.)

I know many here don't have English as a first language, so let me be more specific.

LYC CNX was asked by MPlus to "support" the parade.

We had no part in its planning, conception, approval, government presentation, or execution. So, we are providing financial and moral support (like liaison with Westerners).

The parade would have gone on without our support, but I think it's particularly gracious of MPlus to invite our group (which is more than 50% Thai, by the way) to participate.

Like a previous poster suggested, if you think this ain't a Thai thing, look who's involved in the politics - MPlus and Natee. Though each tries to recruit Westerner support, it's all their show, for better or for worse.

If you prefer not to draw conclusions based on hearsay and inference, the information required to call MPlus directly is provided previously by another poster.

Of course, it's more fun to draw conclusions without hard data, since then you can conclude anything that makes you feel good! 555

http://www.chiangmaigaypride.com

[endure]

First, let me identify myself. I'm head of LYC Chiang Mai. I'm writing from a biased position, since our group has chosen to support the Chiang Mai 2nd Gay Parade on February 21.

Well, that kills the theory there are no Farangs involved! Guess Endure was right afterall

- why not a "Single Straight Men from Hampsted who drink Ale" parade?

They have straight men in Hampsted? My mother always warned me about the men on Hampsted heath; somewhere to be avoided for risk of getting something rammed down your throat me thinks.

Joking aside, have to agree with Peekint's post, though I hope LYC aren't going to push any Farang influences into the planning. I think the event has much more credibility if it's organised by Thais and primarily for Thais. Though I'm sure MPlus will welcome all the Farang Satang they can get

To pick up on a couple of posts in this thread about scaring the children. Why should this be the case? The only reason a five year old would question two men holding hands is because they'd already been told it was wrong by their parents/teachers indoctrinating them with homophic thinking.

There are large areas of the world where straight men hold hands and/or kiss each other. Try visiting the Middle East, large parts of Africa, Southern India, Asia, Italy, Russia. They are signs of affection between straight friends. It's mainly in those Puritan-influenced parts of the West that people are horrified by simple signs of human affection.

[jdinasia]

For that matter .. try visiting Thailand as hand holding by males/males or females/females is normal here

[Jingthing]

Equally, the gay community should be responsible for policing the parade to ensure there are no display's of public affection or too sexually provocative acts that breach Thailand's moral code and give credence to some of the anti-parade arguments put forward in this thread.

Ballocks! There is no such thing as a gay "community." That is a myth. There are gay people and we are very diverse. Some of us will act in ways that are offensive just like any other kinds of people. Turn your bloody head away!

Your kind of talk reminds me of people who used to describe "Uncle Tom" type black American people as "a credit to their race." No, I for one reject that ancient kind of thinking. We should all dress up in dark suits and white shirts like Mormons, I suppose, huh? Why bother with a gay parade then?

If some man is so moved to kiss his boyfriend at a gay event in Thailand, do you think the street will explode if they do so?

Edited February 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[endure]

they got arrested for having group sex in a hotel hardly the same as a group mincing themselves into a frenzy in front of small chidren. there are also plenty of online sites for extreme homos.you are the only ones with a great opinion of yourselves hence the need for you to keep having these parades so you can make a spectacle of your selves. boasting ego ? re gay parade . dont talk about children they are something you will never have if you are truly gay and not just indulging your own selfish perversions .

Such words of compassion and tolerance!

Never really been in to all this Gay Pride stuff, only went to 1 back in U.K., but maybe I'll go along this year to see all that "mincing themselves into a frenzy" caper .... sounds quite hilarious!

I hope this isn't compulsory. I'm afraid I couldn't mince myself into a frenzy if my life depended on it

[Jingthing]

I also have yet to mince. Maybe it isn't too late to learn?

[endure]

Is there some sort of class you can attend to teach you how to mince?

[Jingthing]

I feel a parade contingent coming on: the Gays who Don't or Can't Mince and PROUD OF IT, right behind the Thai Albino Gay Mormon Group