'Ruling out the foreigner'

[ChiangMaiThai]

MRentoul...once the spleens are fully vented, sanity will hopefully prevail. My concern is the viscious quality of the posts will leave the authorities with the clear impression that the farang are indeed dangerous people.

So now they may not want us here because we are dangerous people? Of course we cease to be dangerous as soon as we produce evidence of the required levels of income.

[ChiangMaiThai]

why i or my wife need to earn 1000+ baht a day

25 bucks a day is a hardship huh?

25 bucks a day.

Mr Vietnam

Believe it or not, there me be plenty of loving husbands and Fathers who do not have $10,000 in the bank and also may not have an income of $1000 a month.

[JT65]

The ranting won't change any minds it is too offensive.

Hi Dr.

Maybe it would be to the Benefit of all of us

if The Administrators deleted the offending remarks then ?

Roger

Great Idea

Lets stop the concept of free speach as well.  Maybe we should just all shut up and cop it sweet.  Never mind that Thais have the same rights as us in our own countries.  No , I agree with you mate, lets delete all the posts that dont agree with the almighty Thai Government.

All this is happening while my own government seems to be loosening the ropes on visa for Thais and offering Free Trade Agreements. No wonder the Thais think they can walk all over us.

[Rockhard]

I don't particularly like putting 400,000 in a Thai bank but will do so if necessary. I am married to a Thai and have two children with her. My money is earned in the US while I live here and I've been drawing money from my bank accounts as its needed.

So, the 40,000 baht per month. That's simple enough for me but does it have to be earned in Thailand or can it come from outside of Thailand?

[pschef]

I think the money or income are an either or item, and that will all be revealed soon. I think the Chiang Mai guy went off at the mouth and showed his bias against farang ( I'd guess he was more alluding to the non compliant people...ie is the 30 day border hoppers ) The ranting won't change any minds it is too offensive.

I think the Dr is right, its an either or not both, 400.000 in bank plus 40.000 per month.

It’s a total contradiction of the rules.

I agree that officer was running off his anger at some farrang that pissed him off in the past. Let’s hope so anyway?

???

[Pesche]

I live here since 1991...

I remember when Honourable Chuan Leekpai said to Bil Clinton (during his US visit) "Thailand is not ready for globalization".

Also I think that some insider (the ones who speak Thai) also remember the Birthday-speach of His Royal Highness King Bhumibol The Great noting: "This man in the first row (pointing with the finger on a smiling Mr. Taksin) will bring you into trouble"...

Is this progress or re-gress?

Pesche

P.S. thanks Kenny !

[TizMe]

We will not be happy living in another country than LOS ! Forget Malaysia, PI or Rio. There are no alternatives, and Farangland does not appell to us.   ???

I disagree. I feel sorry for those that have ties to Thailand through marriage. Each thread I read, it is becoming clearer and clearer that I will retire to a country that actually welcomes me, and not just my money.

[DaveYo]

Greetings everyone.  I have just read the vast majority of the posts since i last wrote.  

Let's all analyse what has been going on recently and put all this into proper perspective.  Right?  Ok

Before the recent changes of the law many of us were able to meet all the requirements so imposed from the Government of Thailand.  Since then, the PM and the Immigration Division, and the Lawmakers of Thailand, decided to ante up the requirements to the current state now.  This new law now has all of us in a heck of a financial mess and just practically killing us just to meet these new requirements.  Next we get this statement coming from a Lt. Col, in Chaing Mai, and he runs this department and is of high authority in that section of Thailand.  Did any of us stop to think this dude has connections to the Immigrations Division in Bangkok.  Sure he does, and  by the way he has inside connections to those lawmakers.  Don't be surprise or say that this is not so.  First of all he won't just be giving his opinion just for the heck of it.  When Thailand got freed from paying back their debt of recent, this is when all heck broke loose because now they can make their laws the way they want to, without restraint from the IMF.  Their former creditors.

Ok.  So there you go, and I suggest all of us to start using some street sense here and see the picture that is now developing this coming July of 2004.  

If and again I say (IF)  this dude is right and many of us not realize he is doing us a (FAVOR) BY TIPPING US OFF, of what is yet to come under the grapevine.   He is giving us advance notice of what the higher dudes in the law making division and immigration is thinking of doing right now.

There isn't any Thai official that will waste their time or say things to the news people just for the B/S of it, so this person is saying what is inside the secret minds of the lawmakers, and saying to us what they are thinking of doing shortly.  True this is not officially announced as of yet, but when it does become official, don't quote me that many of you will drop your jaws and your eyes get bigger with saying What?

The way the current trend is going now with the PM and Immigrations you can almost trust that this is going to happen within the next few months.

I once made this prediction back in March, that Thailand Winds are Changing for the Worse for the Farangs.

To Roger, I will explain how I can do it based on your question on next reply.

Also just recently, if anyone has been paying attention, there is a mass exodus of sales going on around the Phuket area, and around the Pattaya area, and many business and properties that are owned from farangs.  Many are just recently reducing their asking prices, because they see what is about to happen to them shortly.  

So lets all use our heads here and understand, that Thailand does intend to break up the families of the farangs, because they do not like outsiders marrying their people.  Yes this is in a way DISCRIMINATION, and especially about RACE but try telling that to the Thai Richie Rich, who want nothing more than to see that we get out of their country some way and some how, even if it means busting up our families and forcing us to make a monumentous decision to pull up our stakes and move on.

In a sense we are like NOMADS to the Thailand Government, and basically we wander with no place to call home.

So who is next?  On their list?   Their people who associate with the farangs.  Before any Thai who married a foreigner, they lost their priviledges such as owning property or homes.  They just recently gave back those rights to their citizens.  Trust me, they can strip their own people of these rights and the Constitution of Thailand to some extent not mean a thing to these lawmakers under this present Regime.

Someone made a comment here with the lady picture, that person gave the best sensible advice to all of us and gave us the best sensible warning about our money to all the farangs.

I tip my hat to you.    :blues:  

 :cool:

[Maigo6]

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It only costs 100Bt  to sign up for your Bualuang Premier card and an annual fee of 150Bt.

So not so much to worry about getting money out of the country.

cheers

[Bob Chittie]

Why are budget tourists welcome, but long termers on a budget of less than 40,000 Baht a month not welcome? It seems that the long stay farang should be desired by Thailand. After all, it guarantees funds will be spent in the country. Am I missing something?

I don't really know what to make of all this. I do agree with the posts that say the long termers are doing more good than harm. I don't know if there is real racism against foreigners in Thailand or not. My personal experiences have all been good. but maybe at the higher levels of power, there is real disdain for us. Any comments?

[DaveYo]

hmmmmmmmmmm, Maigo6.  Out of curiousity, did you read up a few posts back from Roger.  Thailand has some rules of taking money out of the banks and sending them abroad.  If that money you speak of is out of the country, no problem, and sure you can have it sent to a thailand bank etc.  

It is getting your savings that is in Thailand out of the country is where the problem begins.  For starters, if we need to meet the requirements so impose of recent, we are talking of thousands of dollars here, not just hundreds.  That is the big question of how to take your thousands out without dinging up Thailand Banks suspicions.  Understand.

Like I said before, they now want to monitor everything concerning about your MONEY in detail, and they want to know how you get it, from where, and when, etc.  Once they get all this personal information of about you they can just about totally have their control on you.

That is how they adjust the TIE that is on your neck real nicely before they do the HANGING.

:blues:

[Bob Chittie]

We will not be happy living in another country than LOS ! Forget Malaysia, PI or Rio. There are no alternatives, and Farangland does not appell to us.   ???

I disagree. I feel sorry for those that have ties to Thailand through marriage. Each thread I read, it is becoming clearer and clearer that I will retire to a country that actually welcomes me, and not just my money.

I think TizMe makes a good point. While there are a lot of farangs who have ties to Thailand and won't realistically go elsewhere, many who are considering retiring here or investing here may be put off by the stance of this government, especially if they have friends or family who are personally affected by these laws. And because of this I do believe Thailand will lose many of the very people they are trying to bring here.

[Maigo6]

Link::

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok....ult.htm

cheers

[lopburi3]

It must be 800,000 Baht in the account, verified by bank letter and copy of bank book, one week before you make your application. It can be almost zero the rest of the year.

George, do not believe "one week before" is the meaning of the law, although it may be the wording.  Believe intent is that the letter not be more than one week old.  I have never had a problem with same day or day before letters.  

The other rules seem to be just about what has been in use all along; but we seem to be taking them in their most restrictive forms rather than as intended.  I hope.  

[mrentoul]

So once again mrentoul, how is a farang married to a thai with say only 20,000 baht a month income and 100,000 baht in savings such a burden to thailand that he should be denied the right to live with his loved ones?

Why are you asking me? I'm not the one who decides. However, I would invite you to consider what rules are in place in your own country for foreigners who marry a national and then settle down.

The best argument (and it's not particuarly good) that I've seen so far is that foreigners here, unlike those who marry and settle down in the West, do not bludge on the state. Well, so what! If I was the government I'd still be within my rights to decide whether I wanted you here.

As far as your views regarding the farang who has given up his career in the West and is lost in Thailand, they are just your views

Right! In a relationship between a Thai and a westerner, where do you settle down -  in the home country of the bride or the groom? I imagine in most cases you follow whoever it is that can bring in an income, whoever it is that is pursuing a career.

Where a Thai girl is not pursuing a career or would not earn much even if she did, I imagine many couples would stay in the West.

If husband and wife were forced by family cirumstances to move here, then it's possible neither would be earning much. Same with those who have no savings and opt to come here as a lifestyle choice. You're in a vulnerable position financially, and living in someone else's land.

If you can become a long-term resident here simply by marrying a Thai then you are doing pretty well, despite those financial sacrifices. You're the one who made those choices, no one else. Now the government has decided to increase the price.

All rules are arbitrary, but no one has it easy. Think of those guys who split their time between a wife and family here and working in the West. That can't be very pleasant, but they do it, presumably because they want financial and career independence.

Personally, I think the more rules people make the more ways people will find around them. Most people have nothing to worry about, I suspect.

Thailand does intend to break up the families of the farangs, because they do not like outsiders marrying their people.  Yes this is in a way DISCRIMINATION,

Even if this were true, Dave, how does you ranting help anything?

Like I said before, they now want to monitor everything concerning about your MONEY in detail, and they want to know how you get it, from where, and when, etc.

You're money is your own, and no one is going to stop you withdrawing it when you leave.

[Bob Chittie]

The best argument (and it's not particuarly good) that I've seen so far is that foreigners here, unlike those who marry and settle down in the West, do not bludge on the state. Well, so what! If I was the government I'd still be within my rights to decide whether I wanted you here.

I agree with you mrentoul that the government is the government and they can decide what they want. We are guests here. But I want to know what is behind this decision. I think the fact that the long term farang spends money (even if it doesn't add up to 40,000 a month) and takes nothing from the government is a very good argument for thailand actually welcoming long term farangs. (Also on top of this, I would say they pose no threat to 'stealing' the jobs that belong to the Thais). So why impose these rules? Is it because they want a higher class farang? Is is because they are very racist? I don't know. But I do wonder about what happens to those people who have built a life here based on the old rules.

and mrentoul, congrats on starting one #### of a thread!

[mrentoul]

I think the fact that the long term farang spends money (even if it doesn't add up to 40,000 a month) and takes nothing from the government is a very good argument for thailand actually welcoming long term farangs.

On the face of it, yes.

(Also on top of this, I would say they pose no threat to 'stealing' the jobs that belong to the Thais). So why impose these rules? Is it because they want a higher class farang? Is is because they are very racist?

Terrorism, I would say. No government wants people without apparent means of supporting themselves, or (worse) people who have a fortune flowing through their accounts but who can't account for it.

But I do wonder about what happens to those people who have built a life here based on the old rules

Same here.

and mrentoul, congrats on starting one #### of a thread!

Thank-you.

[Bob Chittie]

(Also on top of this, I would say they pose no threat to 'stealing' the jobs that belong to the Thais). So why impose these rules? Is it because they want a higher class farang? Is is because they are very racist?

Terrorism, I would say. No government wants people without apparent means of supporting themselves, or (worse) people who have a fortune flowing through their accounts but who can't account for it.

I considered this too, but if I'm not mistaken, under these new rules a terrorist could marry a Thai and live off his 'investments' overseas as long as 40,000 baht a month is coming in. Right?

Although I like the convenience of multiple 30 day visa free stays, I think an important step regarding the terrorists would be to enforce the limit on the number of these you may have in a row. Make everyone go to a consulate and apply for a visa. Let in the long stay farangs who just enjoy Thailand and arrest the terrorists.

[Maigo6]

American    Intelligence:                                                                                                                                                       The advisory said there was no specific information on possible targets or dates for the attack to take place - but it warned that al Qaeda may be casing foreign countries and even airlines trying to determine which would best suit their needs.

"Identifying which countries have the least restrictive requirements for entry may also tell terrorist operatives which airline flights would be easiest to board and take control in order to crash into targets in the US during over flight," the advisory said.

        -------------------------------------------

There we go lads, its just a sign of the times, and if the terrorists where able to have an easy passage because of lax immigration screening..........well we know what an outcry that would bring, lets face it 9/11 changed things.

cheers

[mrentoul]

I considered this too, but if I'm not mistaken, under these new rules a terrorist could marry a Thai and live off his 'investments' overseas as long as 40,000 baht a month is coming in. Right?

He might have to show his papers more often.

Although I like the convenience of multiple 30 day visa free stays, I think an important step regarding the terrorists would be to enforce the limit on the number of these you may have in a row. Let in the long stay farangs who just enjoy Thailand and arrest the terrorists.

I don't know about the last bit, but yes, why not limit the number of multiple 30-day visas?

[Roger13]

I think the fact that the long term farang spends money (even if it doesn't add up to 40,000 a month) and takes nothing from the government is a very good argument for thailand actually welcoming long term farangs.

Are we looking at this correctly.

As I see it the Gvt. wants to see long Term Residents

properly Registered - most countries do!

And especially now because of Terrorism.

Long Term Residents relying on Visa Runs & Border Hops

are not Properly registered.

To be properly Registered they need to apply for one year extensions that require Bank Deposits OR (hopefully our Col.

in CM made a mistake when he said "and") Income Levels.

To Register, if you do not have those Deposits & Income Levels, will be subject to special consideration.

OK - I can see that is a problem for some people

- worrying what the outcome of the Special Consideration might be - but surely the picture is not as black as some people are interpreting it to be?

I can imagine those who have Fraudulent stamps in their passports being given a hard time.

Others who have done proper Visa Runs personally might find themselves being given some serious questioning as to how they come to be Living here permanently whilst presumably applying for and being given Visa after Visa for Tourism !!!

But I cannot honestly see the Thai Authorities

breaking up a Family especially where Children are Concerned.

And I think the Rules will give sufficient discretion

to Officers to prevent hardship to those considered to be ideal

Residents.

Whilst the Thai Authorities were Congratulated on arresting Hambili - it must have come as a Great Shock to the TOP to find that he was in Thailand.

And for 2,500 Unregistered Foreigners to be suspected of being in the Chiang Mai area alone (not including Burmese)

must surely be worrying to the Gvt.

I don't think anything untoward will happen to those who have posted their anxieties here - but it must be very worrying for them.

Roger

[Bob Chittie]

Although I like the convenience of multiple 30 day visa free stays, I think an important step regarding the terrorists would be to enforce the limit on the number of these you may have in a row. Let in the long stay farangs who just enjoy Thailand and arrest the terrorists.

I don't know about the last bit, but yes, why not limit the number of multiple 30-day visas?

I think technically there is a limit of 6, but it may not be enforced. But if Thailand can weed out the terrorists, then wouldn't the extra money brought in by legitimate long stay farangs who have an income of less than 40,000 baht (but maybe atleast 15,000 or so a month, be welcome considering that as far as I can discern, they pose no threat or burden to Thailand? The only answer I've seen so far is that Thailand is extremly racist and as I've said earlier, I haven't experienced that personally.

[Roger13]

In my Opinion,

The Authorities need to tighten up the Visa on Arrival proceedures.

People have taken too much advantage of this system

to Reside long term, here whereas the concerned foreigners all know it is for the benefit of Tourists.

If the authorities limit the number of Visa on Arrival that an individual can be granted in a given year - say not more than 3 consecutively and then no more for at least six months for example ...

This would encourage potential long stayers to correctly apply for one year extensions.

The problem now is how to deal with those who have

"misused" (if not "illegally" then "common sense wise")

the Visa on Arrival in the past.

Some of whom have a Family and cannot qualify for

one year extensions on financial grounds.

Roger

I know there is now much to read in this 15 Page Saga ...

But I did suggest a limit to the 30 day visas on Page 9  !!!

Roger

[Bob Chittie]

Roger, I agree with you on the 30 day no visa limit. Do you also believe there should be a limit on the number of consecutive tourist visas one may receive? Personally, I do not because first of all, you may end up denying visas to genuine frequent tourists (like myself) which would certainly cause an uprising and second of all, since you are (hopefully) weeding out terrorists and other criminals, you can be confident in allowing in long stay farangs who do not pose a threat and are bringing money into the country.

Or does the Thai government only want tourists who stay here a month or two each year and then leave?

I have to admit I'm pretty confused by this whole thread. It will be interesting to see if these rules take place and if they cause any real problems.

[Roger13]

... since you are (hopefully) weeding out terrorists and other criminals, you can be confident in allowing in long stay farangs who do not pose a threat and are bringing money into the country.

Or does the Thai government only want tourists who stay here a month or two each year and then leave?

I think the Gvt wants Foreign "Residents"

to be Registered.

Already they have Tightened up on the Long Standing requirement that Foreigners in the Kingdom for 90 days must Report their Residential Address to Immigration.

I guess they realise not everybody is doing so.

New potential Long Term Stay Foreigners

will have to satisfy Savings / Income criteria

by applying for the one year extensions

Old Long Stay "Tourists" who are unable meet the Criteria

will be given Special Consideration - if they have Families.

Roger

[DaveYo]

Roger, Thailand did not even know this Hambili the terrorist was inside their own country.  Now who's fault is this.  As far as I know when you go thru immigrations there is a bar code on your passport, and it is registered to the country you are from.  I have seen those screens because I myself work inside the airport with those planes myself.  I also have the clearance to Immigrations and Customs, and many time when I am in there each person who goes thru, they swipe the passport and presto your name and background comes up.

So for this terrorist, he smuggled himself inside Thailand, and believe me that is a lot of territory to cover.  It is easy for one to cross the borders and not be on the main road or anywhere near the border point of entry.  

So there is no way this terrorist went thru the legit border point of entry.  Had he done so, bingo.  

The only way Thailand knew about his presence was via intelligence because someone sang like a birdie and provided this information to them which in turn they notified Thailand, and the hunt was on.  On that point guess who found him, CIA and Interpol along with Thai Police.  They hit the streets diggin up information to track him down.  When they did find him, Whoopie, the shock waves went out like a Tsunami, and thus began the big crackdown all over.  In fact some of the guards even got the blame for the heat and the PM was please.  How about the General who controls the guards.  Why not blame that turkey.  It is under his control, his jurisdiction.  Ah, the poor guards, and the immigration workers.

The same over here in usa, you can cross the border from Canada to USA via a nice walk in the woods.  The only place that has the big border watch is between Mexico and US.

Thailand is no where near that stage.  Plus the water.  Ah nice boat ride.

But the guys capture was a true wake up call to the Thailand Government concernin their border.  Any country would just about panic.  So I understand their reaction.  

Funny what ever happened to this dude after his capture.  He disappeared from the face of the earth.  Nothing about him since.

:blues:

[DaveYo]

Oh by the way "What is supposed to be Special Consideration"

That is so vague and covers a wide territory.  Now give me a good reason for consideration.  Also how about this.  "What is your good reason for being in Thailand".  

So what is the answer worthy to give to Immigrations to be considered, and for them to accept as your good reason

There is no guidelines concerning these two subjects on how such should be dictated and interpreted.

:blues: ???

[Roger13]

Funny what ever happened to this dude after his capture.  He disappeared from the face of the earth.  Nothing about him since.

Dave

He is probably now nearer to you than us !!!

Roger

[DaveYo]

Roger, don't scare me like that- Yikes.   He probably has turned into a zombie veggie by now from all the drugs they have put into him to extract information on what he knows and I am sure they have FRIED his brains out, if not killed him quietly.  :blues:

[Roger13]

There is no guidelines concerning these two subjects on how such should be dictated and interpreted

Dave,

I have always seen this as the Thai way of doing things.

As I have said several times before - It gives great discretion to the Officers who can then favourably consider those in their eyes who are Respectable/ Respectful applicants.

And give a Thumbs down to Loud Mouthed / Arrogant / Rule Quoters.

Roger