Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[Chaimai]

And, since no one here has yet posted the clear, specific details of any real over-the-counter Thai bank ATM card withdrawal, it remains opinion and conjecture...

I have !

I will try and find the post #No.

Later... here it is:-

Confirm. No charge. I did post at the time (I think19th May) and thought that K bank staff had just not cottoned-on to linking the ATM charge to an over the counter transaction. Interestingly, they use an old style 'swipe' machine where they imprint your debit card onto the withdrawal slip. By the time this got back to the UK (debited on 23rd May) I got a rate of 54.390. I am pretty sure that the 'blocked' rate was to 52.41

My rate profile was as follows:-

16 May ATM K Bank 52.413

19 May counter KBank 54.39 (see above)

19 May GSB ATM 52.598

20 May Ayuttyah BKK 53.029

Edited June 2, 2009 by Chaimai

[JimGant]

Can't you guys check this information on-line immediately after the transaction, like everybody else can?

These over-the-counter transactions are being treated as "off-line" (non real-time), same as when you use a credit card -- or a debit card in the signature mode.

As such, when you go on the Internet immediately after the transaction, you'll get a "pending" amount. Or what is being "blocked" against any further transactions. Surely you've seen this "pending" line when you've used a signature debit, or credit, card.....? What you actually get in forex won't be known or shown for a couple of days.

Such a transaction needs to be recognized by the network as 'same as ATM transaction,' or the bank will be forced to add fees -- or add a spread -- otherwise selling baht (vs. sweaters, computers, etc) has no profit margin.

Haven't figured out if we're seeing it both ways here, or what......?

[SurfRider]

"when you go on the Internet immediately after the transaction, you'll get a "pending" amount. Or what is being "blocked" against any further transactions. . . . What you actually get in forex won't be known or shown for a couple of days."

True, but these people post in vague generalities and make un-substantiated claims -- then state that they're right and everyone else is wrong.

They don't seem to be able to simply go back into on-line records and post the specific data from the past transaction in question.

I've been doing on-line banking for years -- I can go back to any transaction from the past and pull up the details with a few keystrokes. Am I an anomaly?

.

[JimGant]

Can't you guys check this information on-line immediately after the transaction

Do you equate "pending" with "immediately?"

Am I an anomaly?

Maybe just not perceptive......

[thaimate]

Thaimate, if you got a good deal, you should post the details for the rest of us to know... You said you went thru Bangkok Bank....

--How much baht did you receive for that transaction

--What was the total amount deducted from your home account

--What was the date of that transaction

If you got a good over-the-counter deal thru BKK Bank, those details will bear it out...

sorry surftrader what proof do you want ,want to see my computer printout? you were wrong i was right i got the nationwide full rate for the day ,used the bangkok bank in naglua ,when i asked the woman if there was a charge she replied no charge no limit to the amount you can take . however this was before the .85 % withdrawel ,i will try tomorrow or day after to see if n/wide charge over the counter .

ok this is the last time i quote on this transaction i went into the bank on the 25th took out 150000 on my nationwide card ,on the 28th my bank account showed that i had got a rate of 55.032 which wasnt to shabby ,no charges ok all . sorry missed out that i got charged 2725.67 pounds. for my 1500000 baht ,

Edited June 3, 2009 by thaimate

[hackerthai]

I will post a bank atm cash withdrawl from K bank as soon as the amount appears online and I have the data. Then someone please tell me if this way gets a better rate than the ATM withdrawl (150 baht).

[SurfRider]

" Do you equate "pending" with "immediately?" "

In my case, the transaction amounts are posted to my accounts almost immediately after the transaction occurs.

I have never seen a situation where the numbers changed after they are initially posted, nor have I seen one where it takes several days for the debit to hit the account.

My comments have always been about the numbers, not the terminology.

.

[jfchandler]

My rate profile was as follows:-

16 May ATM K Bank 52.413

19 May counter KBank 54.39 (see above)

19 May GSB ATM 52.598

20 May Ayuttyah BKK 53.029

Chaimai, here from the X-rates.com web site are the pound-baht exchange rates for those days that closely track the Interbank Exchange Rate for the pound, which is what you COULD have gotten with the right kind of ATM transaction.

2009-05-15 May 15, Friday 52.4626 THB

2009-05-19 May 19, Tuesday 53.2625 THB

2009-05-20 May 20, Wednesday 53.4433 THB

2009-05-21 May 21, Thursday 53.8703 THB

2009-05-22 May 22, Friday 54.6328 THB

In general, your ATM transaction rates a bit low, meaning your home bank is taking a cut of your funds or not reimbursing the card network charges.

The May 19 transaction at Kasikorn, assuming the figures are correct, seems odd. There's an almost two full baht different between the transactions before and after it. Yet the underlying exchange rates didn't change so much on those three days. My only guess is, given what Jim Gant said, that they possibly didn't process it until that Friday, when for some reason the underlying IER exchange rate jumped to 54.63 and you got 54.39. Nothing else makes any sense.

You may have benefited from a sudden jump in the exchange rates on Friday, but I don't think the numbers show it was due to any advantage of doing an over-the-counter withdrawal.

[jfchandler]

ok this is the last time i quote on this transaction i went into the bank on the 25th took out 150000 on my nationwide card ,on the 28th my bank account showed that i had got a rate of 55.032 which wasnt to shabby ,no charges ok all . sorry missed out that i got charged 2725.67 pounds. for my 1500000 baht ,

Here are the X-rates rates, approximating the IER, for that period for the pound-baht...

2009-05-25 May 25, Monday 54.72 THB

2009-05-26 May 26, Tuesday 54.7512 THB

2009-05-27 May 27, Wednesday 54.9035 THB

2009-05-28 May 28, Thursday 54.8103 THB

2009-05-29 May 29, Friday 55.421 THB

The Bank of Thailand web site shows the following average "buying TT rates" for those days:

May 25 - 54.2046

May 26 - 54.2677

May 27 - 54.6149

May 28 - 54.5574

May 29 - 54.5690

Assuming all the data is correct, getting a 55.032 rate for that period would be pretty hard to figure...considering it's better than both the average buying TT rate and the IER rate for that period....

[CMMCB]

Did another UOB ATM transaction today. No local fee charged. Rate works out at THB/SGD = 23.397285 at around 2pm.

Compare with bank website rates around that time:

SCB T/T rate = 23.47875

UOB T/T rate = 23.45300

CMMCB

[Chaimai]

The May 19 transaction at Kasikorn, assuming the figures are correct, seems odd. There's an almost two full baht different between the transactions before and after it. Yet the underlying exchange rates didn't change so much on those three days. My only guess is, given what Jim Gant said, that they possibly didn't process it until that Friday, when for some reason the underlying IER exchange rate jumped to 54.63 and you got 54.39. Nothing else makes any sense.

You may have benefited from a sudden jump in the exchange rates on Friday, but I don't think the numbers show it was due to any advantage of doing an over-the-counter withdrawal.

jfc, as I reported earlier, the counter withdrawal was not debited until a week later. So the ACTUAL rate I received was, fortuitously, better than the rate on the date of the withdrawal.

I have been happy with the rates on my ATM withdrawals and only the GSB withdrawal looks out of kilter

[Briggsy]

For Nationwide users, an ATM withdrawal gets the rate at that instant. A counter withdrawal gets the rate the following day. So you can "win" or "lose" by doing a counter withdrawal depending on fluctuations in the exchange rate. I actually 'won' both times I did it as the pound was strengthening day by day.

Briggsy, et. al., I don't know what "the rate" you refer to is... Needless to say, banks have many different rates for different purposes.

And, since no one here has yet posted the clear, specific details of any real over-the-counter Thai bank ATM card withdrawal, it remains opinion and conjecture...

I'm guessing by "the rate," you are referring to Thai banks "buying TT" rate for exchange. But you should know, if that's the rate people are getting over-the-counter, it's clearly possible to do better than "buying TT" with a no-fee ATM machine withdrawal, as has been well-documented in this thread.

It certainly seems strange to me that we've had dozens of postings by people giving the full details of their ATM machine withdrawals. But we can't seem to get anyone to do the same for a real over-the-counter withdrawal.

--Thai bank used

--card used

--baht received

--total amount withdrawn from home bank account

--date of transaction

All of this I posted earlier in this thread down to the satang.

I only reposted a summary to correct SurfTraders incorrect post. As you can see I am talking about the Nationwide.

Trust me I'm fully with you on posting very accurate numerical information. However I don't need to post it over and over again. Look through this thread or the other Nationwide thread and you'll find detailed numerical info from me.

[thaimate]

ok this is the last time i quote on this transaction i went into the bank on the 25th took out 150000 on my nationwide card ,on the 28th my bank account showed that i had got a rate of 55.032 which wasnt to shabby ,no charges ok all . sorry missed out that i got charged 2725.67 pounds. for my 1500000 baht ,

Here are the X-rates rates, approximating the IER, for that period for the pound-baht...

2009-05-25 May 25, Monday 54.72 THB

2009-05-26 May 26, Tuesday 54.7512 THB

2009-05-27 May 27, Wednesday 54.9035 THB

2009-05-28 May 28, Thursday 54.8103 THB

2009-05-29 May 29, Friday 55.421 THB

The Bank of Thailand web site shows the following average "buying TT rates" for those days:

May 25 - 54.2046

May 26 - 54.2677

May 27 - 54.6149

May 28 - 54.5574

May 29 - 54.5690

Assuming all the data is correct, getting a 55.032 rate for that period would be pretty hard to figure...considering it's better than both the average buying TT rate and the IER rate for that period....

pop around and look at my online account ,i tell it as i see it online

boll-cks i said i wasnt going to post again.

Edited June 3, 2009 by thaimate

[Chaimai]

pop around and look at my online account ,i tell it as i see it online

boll-cks i said i wasnt going to post again.

I know you are not going to post again, but........

Was your counter withdrawal done on old-fashioned paper slips against your signature and with a swipe machine (or electronically). How many days later was the transaction debited to your account ?

(I would pop round but I don't know where you live )

[thaimate]

pop around and look at my online account ,i tell it as i see it online

boll-cks i said i wasnt going to post again.

I know you are not going to post again, but........

Was your counter withdrawal done on old-fashioned paper slips against your signature and with a swipe machine (or electronically). How many days later was the transaction debited to your account ?

(I would pop round but I don't know where you live )

ok i lied i will post again. it was done on an old fashioned paper machine,as my first post said it showed up immediatly and looked as if i got a lousy rate(lots of different transactions on this account so couldnt be sure) then it disapeared and money back in account ,then thre days later debited to account at rate i told you in last post.

[Chaimai]

ok i lied i will post again. it was done on an old fashioned paper machine,as my first post said it showed up immediatly and looked as if i got a lousy rate(lots of different transactions on this account so couldnt be sure) then it disapeared and money back in account ,then thre days later debited to account at rate i told you in last post.

Thanks. Identical to mine (I think neither of manage to read ALL posts).

The first rate was obviously the 'blocked' amount (that prevents multiple withdrawals) with the better rate being allocated when the 'paper slip' got back to Nationwide - could have gone the other way of course.

[samui04]

" Do you equate "pending" with "immediately?" "

In my case, the transaction amounts are posted to my accounts almost immediately after the transaction occurs.

I have never seen a situation where the numbers changed after they are initially posted, nor have I seen one where it takes several days for the debit to hit the account.

My comments have always been about the numbers, not the terminology.

.

Uhm....

Maestro card from Italy. Always show up immediately with a temporary blocked amounts.

after 3/4 working day the transaction will move from the temporary to the processed, with usually a small change in value (if that day the euro was not going up or down heavy).

[SurfRider]

"Uhm.... Maestro card from Italy. Always show up immediately with a temporary blocked amounts. after 3/4 working day the transaction will move from the temporary to the processed, with usually a small change in value"

If it were me, I would either go with a different bank, or tell your current bank to get its act together and stop feeding B.S. to their customers.

Have you done the calculations? -- does the "small change in value" make that much of a difference in the final amount you receive? -- Does whatever difference you're receiving between the two amounts make it worth posting in a forum that is attempting to find the best value for its members? . . .

.

Edited June 3, 2009 by SurfTrader

[jfchandler]

Thaimate and Chaimai, thanks for posting the details of those transactions....

It seems as though, in both cases, you benefited from there being a general improvement in the baht-pound exchange rate in the days after your original transactions (meaning some days later when apparently the actual exchange transaction was done).

That delay, apparently because those were handled as old-fashioned paper transactions, makes it difficult to know just when the exchange transaction was done and thus how the counter rates compared with ATMs and such.

If more people would post on these kinds of transactions, perhaps we'd begin to get a clearer picture of just how these withdrawals are working.

[jfchandler]

Trust me I'm fully with you on posting very accurate numerical information. However I don't need to post it over and over again. Look through this thread or the other Nationwide thread and you'll find detailed numerical info from me.

OK.. here we go...from your prior post in a different thread on Nationwide...

I conducted a small experiment. I withdrew 10,000 Baht from a Bank of Ayudhaya ATM and then immediately went into the branch and withdrew another 10,000 Baht over the counter.

ATM Withdrawal

Confirmed: Bank of Ayudhaya No ATM Fee

Withdrawal 10,000 Baht 3pm 18 May 2009

Date appeared on 'full' statement 19 May 2009

Exchange rate 52.413 Amount deducted from Nationwide Flex a/c £190.79

According to the Bank of Thailand website, the average "Buying TT" rate for May 18 was 52.0465 and for May 19th was 52.5137.

According to the X-Rates.com web site, which approximates the Interbank Exchange Rate, which is about the best that can be had in foreign exchange, the pound-baht rate for May 18 was 52.8442 and for May 19th was 53.2625.

That suggests the Nationwide card you're using is paying a fair amount under the best rates to be had.

'In-branch' withdrawal 10,000 baht

No fee, 18 May 2009

Rate 53.027

Deduction from Flex a/c £188.58

Date appeared on 'full' statement 21 May 2009

According to the Bank of Thailand website, the average "Buying TT" rate for May 20 (the day before it posted to your statement) was 52.9871 and for May 21 was 53.7286.

According to the X-Rates.com web site, which approximates the Interbank Exchange Rate, which is about the best that can be had in foreign exchange, the pound-baht rate for May 19 (the day after your counter transaction) was 53.2625, for May 20 (the day before it posted to your statement) was 53.4433 and for May 21 was 53.8703. (I started the comparison here the day after the counter transaction because the posters here seem to talk about these being paper based deals that involve some delay in posting...)

The exchange rate during those days was improving daily in favor of the pound. And since there's no way to know exactly what day the actual exchange was done, making any kind of clear conclusion about the rates vs. ATM rates seems difficult.

[jfchandler]

In addition to GSB (Visa only) and AEON (Visa and MC), United Overseas Bank (UOB) remains fee-free for VISA and MasterCard ATM withdrawals.

Weds., June 3 ATM withdrawal in BKK

Schwab VISA debit card. no 150 baht fee

exchange rate for U.S. $ was 34.06

Bank of Thailand says average buying TT rate that day was 33.89 and the average Interbank Exchange Rate was 34.028. Cant do much better than beating the day's IER.

[wimpy]

I was actually charged the 150 baht fee today at BAY, Chang Klang road in Chiang Mai. US based Visa debit card.

[SurfRider]

"it was done on an old fashioned paper machine . . . lots of different transactions on this account so couldnt be sure . . . then it disapeared and money back in account . . . then thre days later debited to account at rate i told you"

With all that crap occurring in only one transaction, you've sure done a great job of convincing all 50,000+ members of ThaiVisa that it's always better to do withdrawals at the counter inside the bank, as opposed to using the ATM! ( sorry, but I couldn't resist . . . )

.

Edited June 4, 2009 by SurfTrader

[Chaimai]

Thaimate and Chaimai, thanks for posting the details of those transactions....

That delay, apparently because those were handled as old-fashioned paper transactions, makes it difficult to know just when the exchange transaction was done and thus how the counter rates compared with ATMs and such.

jfc - I am sure that the rate 'allocated' notionally to the paper transaction (i.e. the 'blocked' amount) was circa 52.41 which would have been identical to the ATM rate. I am sure K bank have no discretion over the rate, they just process the paperwork. The cashier phones a Bangkok number (I think) for authorisation and is given a code to insert on the withdrawal for. I guess this is a VISA call centre which would expalin the consistency in rates. Winning or losing from the 5 or 6 delay in posting the transaction in the UK is simply a lottery.

[jubby]

I've just checked my nationwide statement to see how this 150 baht fee actually shows up.

Now I'm confused , the transaction is as follows, The ATM informed me that a 150 baht fee would be charged on this transaction. I can't see where and if anything I seem to be getting a very good rate :-

2nd June 2009 Cash Bay/Chiangrai Branch CHIANGRAI. 15,000.00THB at 55.903. £268.32

I think the bank was kungrsi bank of ayyutta

As anyone actually seem evidence of the charge ?

[JAS21]

I've just checked my nationwide statement to see how this 150 baht fee actually shows up.

Now I'm confused , the transaction is as follows, The ATM informed me that a 150 baht fee would be charged on this transaction. I can't see where and if anything I seem to be getting a very good rate :-

2nd June 2009 Cash Bay/Chiangrai Branch CHIANGRAI. 15,000.00THB at 55.903. £268.32

I think the bank was kungrsi bank of ayyutta

As anyone actually seem evidence of the charge ?

My spread sheet below, copied and pasted from my internet bank account are with a Nationwide Flex Debit card and Bank of Ayudhya ATM withdrawal I thought that the rates were ok and no charge.

21-May-09 Cash Bay/the Mall Ngamwongwan NONTHABURI. 12,000.00THB at 53.530. Ayudhya £224.17 £311.70

22-May-09 Cash Bay/Grand Canal Sub Branc BANGKOK. 2,000.00THB at 54.127. £36.95 £274.77

22-May-09 Cash Bay/Grand Canal Sub Branc BANGKOK. 10,000.00THB at 54.124. £184.76 £90.01

25-May-09 Cash Bay/the Mall Ngamwongwan NONTHABURI. 4,000.00THB at 54.392. £73.54 £16.47

26-May-09 Bank credit XXXXXXX WJ & P/IPC. £500.00 £516.47

27-May-09 Cash Bay/the Mall Ngamwongwan NONTHABURI. 14,000.00THB at 54.563. £256.58 £259.89

29-May-09 Cash Bay/the Mall Ngamwongwan NONTHABURI. 4,000.00THB at 54.637. £73.21 £186.68

29-May-09 Cash Bay/the Mall Ngamwongwan NONTHABURI. 10,000.00THB at 54.635. £183.03 £3.65

[Chaimai]

I've just checked my nationwide statement to see how this 150 baht fee actually shows up.

As anyone actually seem evidence of the charge ?

I had a charge once from Krung Thai on a 15,000 withdrawal. My statement showed 15,150 so the charge was added. In fact I remember trying to withdraw 15,400 but the ATM would not let me because the 150 charge would have taken it over the card limit of £300 equivalent.

[jubby]

Looks like we're still OK with Ayuttaya then doesn't it, at least with a Nationwide Visa Card. even though the ATM says there will be a charge.

I'd be interested to know how the 150 baht charge manifests itself for those that have actually been charged.

[wimpy]

Looks like we're still OK with Ayuttaya then doesn't it, at least with a Nationwide Visa Card. even though the ATM says there will be a charge.

I'd be interested to know how the 150 baht charge manifests itself for those that have actually been charged.

I withdrew 10,000 baht from BAY today. My bank statement shows a debit of $298.97. They usually refund any fees in a day or two. I will let you know if I get a refund or not.

Yesterday I withdrew 10,000 baht from GSB. My bank statement shows a debit of $293.57. I also received a refund of $3.57 in ATM fees.

So I was charged about 180 baht more today at BAY than I was yesterday at GSB, not counting the refund. I don't know what the exchange rate did overnight though.

[jfchandler]

I've just checked my nationwide statement to see how this 150 baht fee actually shows up.

Now I'm confused , the transaction is as follows, The ATM informed me that a 150 baht fee would be charged on this transaction. I can't see where and if anything I seem to be getting a very good rate :-

2nd June 2009 Cash Bay/Chiangrai Branch CHIANGRAI. 15,000.00THB at 55.903. £268.32

I think the bank was kungrsi bank of ayyutta

As anyone actually seem evidence of the charge ?

Jubby, from various reports, the 150 baht ATM charge, when assessed by a Thai bank, is not generally showing up separately when the transaction posts to your home bank. Typically, the 150 is simply being combined with the general withdrawal amount into a single total. That doesn't answer, however, whether you were charged the 150 baht fee. Where the fee does typically show separately is on your paper ATM receipt if you received one from the Thai ATM machine.

As for your transaction, the Interbank Exchange Rate (IER) for that day for pounds, about the best rate you can possibly get, was 56.1489 THB. The average buying TT rate for June 2 was 55.6305. So your rate of 55.903 is OK... It doesn't look like a fee was rolled into your withdrawal.

There have been some reports by people of the Bank of Ayudhya ATMs advising of a fee to be charged, but then not actually charging it yet. That's apparently because they're still in the process of making the change to their system. Again, the best way to know for sure is to check your paper ATM receipt if you received one.