Arrest Warrants Issued For 14 Red Shirt Leaders And Thaksin

[hammered]

This is really getting tiresome.

It doesn't matter if something is countered 20 pages back in another thread, the same rants come back 10 times per week and always without any proof, just allegations.

Now apparently Abhisit has 'used violence' towards the red.

Bear in mind there is a huge propoganda campaign going on to rewrite what people saw live on TV with their own eyes. Expect more and more of this. It could well be part of the campaign itself.

just do it by yourself. just review all that what you believe to saw on the TV before. watch out for rioting violent red shirt mob in the streets of bangkok and how their activities got captured on camera (that what you saw live on TV, right?)

are there any red shirts mega riots at all? i mean in significant mob size rioting in the streets, violent, out of control, so that only the army can restore 'peace' and the army must march into town for the crackdown.

what are the pictures we saw of the black songkran, we saw: lot's of soldiers in town firing their guns (only into the air of course and only paper bullets), lots of buses, burning buses and burned out buses, photographed form all angles how many red shirts you can spot, captured on photo or video in those buses incidents? we saw that gas trucks on the for songkran typical empty roads. how many red shirts got captured on photo or video related to those gas trucks stories? we saw saw some hooligans here and there dressed in a red shirt, throw a odd stone in whatever direction or some red shirts put some tires on fire. but enough to blame the whole red movement, all of them?

i miss some good pictures of a red mob in a really heavy street fight with the police, where the situation was really at a point you could call out of control. good photos of such brawls i have seen a lot when it was yellow vs. police.

the only thing i saw was when red shirted smashed some expensive cars and the security around have done nothing. i don't know what the statement of red shirt leaders is to this. i also saw photos of red shirt protests, normal rallies, big crowd with people from all walks of life, all generations, young and old people. enjoying peaceful activities such singing and dancing. but those pictures rarely made it into the thai media or on TVforum.

and yes, there is a hugh propaganda campaign going on.

Go talk to the residents of Din Daeng flats. Its easy to find out what happened at the flats and it is pretty close to what the press have reported and what was seen.

Rememeber Charan, a red leader, (and since him a couple of ex-TRT) admitted the red violence was a mistake and even many red sympathisers arent denying the reds did it although they tend to argue it was after leaders lost control and there was provocation, but still not denying it.

[ballpoint]

Go talk to the residents of Din Daeng flats. Its easy to find out what happened at the flats and it is pretty close to what the press have reported and what was seen.

Rememeber Charan, a red leader, (and since him a couple of ex-TRT) admitted the red violence was a mistake and even many red sympathisers arent denying the reds did it although they tend to argue it was after leaders lost control and there was provocation, but still not denying it.

Probably the most distasteful outcome of these events, after the murder of two innocent civilians, is the lack of regret, and the inability to take the blame and admit to the crimes committed, shown by a number of red supporters here and elsewhere. A large number of former red supporters have turned away from them in disgust, yet for these hardcore fans, many of whom have denied in this forum that they are indeed supporters, there is none of that. They wriggle around, blaming imposters, third hands, the army, blue shirts, Abhisit, anyone and everyone except the true perpetrators of the violence. It doesn't matter if 99.9% of the reds were angelic protestors, meekly sitting outside Government House; if none of them face up to what the 0.1% (not that I believe at all that the proportion was as small as that) did, and unconditionally condemn it, apologise to the families of those murdered, and those who had their lives and homes threatened, they are all to be lumped in the same group. Terrorists and terrorist supporters. Instead, we are barraged with posts repeating the same unproved insinuations and blatant lies by these hard core, head in the sand, reddites, that would do their cowardly, can't face the consequences of his actions, blame everyone else, lying leader proud. Sadly, I'm not even that surprised. These people don't even have the guts to come out and say who they support: "I don't support the reds / Thaksin". "I'm not really interested". "I don't even care". "I'm too lazy to post the proof, but it's out there". I could find these quotes on numerous anti Abhisit posts over a number of threads.

Fact: The PAD protests began as a peaceful gathering against an illegal and corrupt government. The reds were formed with the express intention of attacking this gathering. Conversely, during the initial red protests, the PAD stayed away and left them to it. It was only after the reds were ignored that the violence started, as a way of drawing attention to themselves, and in the hope that the military would overreact.

Fact: Thaksin called for "revolution" and evacuated his family from the country prior to Songkhran. During the riots he appeared on international news making false claims about the situation, seemingly as a pre-written account of how he hoped the situation would unfold. Unluckily for him, it didn't, and he was exposed as a liar to a global audiance.

Fact: Panlop Pinmalee left the PAD in disgust because they wouldn't support his plans of violence. He later cuddled up to Thaksin, who obviously has no such qualms.

Fact: A number of red shirt supporters have posted here claiming dozens killed, when no proof at all exisits. Indeed, international media showed soldiers firing in the air and horizontally, but have no footage of major injuries, let alone death. Were they coerced into not showing that footage? Are they colluding with the government? Or does that footage not exist, because it never happened? Furthermore, we are shown a picture of a taxi with a bullet hole in it, but the buildings around the main riot areas are mysteriously free of bullet marks. In addition, some of these same supporters have denied that the red shirts were even in the area, they were set up by a group that, strangely, dressed in black, grey and brown, rather than the more incriminating, red. Not the brightest of "third hands" then. Either there were dozens of red shirts killed, in which case the "third hand" claims are a pack of lies, or there were dozens of "third hands" killed, in which case, why the concern, or, more likely, they were all red shirts, dressed in different colours to simulate a "third hand", and no one was killed. Koo has even posted a picture of a man in black firing a slingshot away from the red shirts. If not a red shirt supporter, then why was he tolerated in their midst? (Or were they the smart third hands who actually got it right and dressed in red?)

Fact: Buses were set alight, pushed off overpasses and used by the reds as weapons against the army. There are many eyewitness accounts from reporters, tourists and other onlookers to verify this.

Fact: LPG tankers were driven to a residential area and threats made to explode them. These tankers just happened to be in Bangkok, despite a ban on their being so during daylight hours, enacted following the 1990 LPG explosion on Phetchburi Road. The chairman of the board of the company they came from is ex army commander in chief, and current cousin of one Thaksin Shinawatra.

Fact: Two people were murdered, and others beaten, by the reds while trying to protect their homes and livelihoods. The names of these people have been reported, and their funerals covered by the press.

Fact: Following these events, not one red shirt leader, or supporter here, has come out and shown the slightest remorse at the murders and other crimes of violence committed.

Fact: A key redshirt leader has fled the country and threatened to use "guerrilla" tactics to destabilise the government and country.

Rather a violent, and unsavoury, bunch these red shirts. Until they they remove, or at least condemn, their violent fringe, they don't deserve to be seen as a credible opposition, or a force for democracy. "One man, one LPG tanker" is not how the adage goes.

[HagenvonTronje]

This is really getting tiresome.

It doesn't matter if something is countered 20 pages back in another thread, the same rants come back 10 times per week and always without any proof, just allegations.

Now apparently Abhisit has 'used violence' towards the red.

Bear in mind there is a huge propoganda campaign going on to rewrite what people saw live on TV with their own eyes. Expect more and more of this. It could well be part of the campaign itself.

just do it by yourself. just review all that what you believe to saw on the TV before. watch out for rioting violent red shirt mob in the streets of bangkok and how their activities got captured on camera (that what you saw live on TV, right?)

are there any red shirts mega riots at all? i mean in significant mob size rioting in the streets, violent, out of control, so that only the army can restore 'peace' and the army must march into town for the crackdown.

what are the pictures we saw of the black songkran, we saw: lot's of soldiers in town firing their guns (only into the air of course and only paper bullets), lots of buses, burning buses and burned out buses, photographed form all angles how many red shirts you can spot, captured on photo or video in those buses incidents? we saw that gas trucks on the for songkran typical empty roads. how many red shirts got captured on photo or video related to those gas trucks stories? we saw saw some hooligans here and there dressed in a red shirt, throw a odd stone in whatever direction or some red shirts put some tires on fire. but enough to blame the whole red movement, all of them?

i miss some good pictures of a red mob in a really heavy street fight with the police, where the situation was really at a point you could call out of control. good photos of such brawls i have seen a lot when it was yellow vs. police.

the only thing i saw was when red shirted smashed some expensive cars and the security around have done nothing. i don't know what the statement of red shirt leaders is to this. i also saw photos of red shirt protests, normal rallies, big crowd with people from all walks of life, all generations, young and old people. enjoying peaceful activities such singing and dancing. but those pictures rarely made it into the thai media or on TVforum.

and yes, there is a hugh propaganda campaign going on.

Go talk to the residents of Din Daeng flats. Its easy to find out what happened at the flats and it is pretty close to what the press have reported and what was seen.

Rememeber Charan, a red leader, (and since him a couple of ex-TRT) admitted the red violence was a mistake and even many red sympathisers arent denying the reds did it although they tend to argue it was after leaders lost control and there was provocation, but still not denying it.

i asked for some videos and photos, you come with some anecdotic story from "the residents of Din Daeng flats", what is close to that what the press had reported and what was seen (TV?) as well.

that exactly TV and press reports about din daeng have been somewhat false or just BS in thai press and TV, that is something, that was demonstrated with evidence and facts 20 pages back in another thread.

if i look now on the new webpage by the thai government, where they tell theier version of the story, i see them again. false located to the events around din daeng. the two redshirted ladies and the hair pulling "hero".

check here: http://www.factreport.go.th/clip

but those two red shirted ladies - that was not at din deang, that was at rajaprarop. din daeng saw a real hero - batman!

not only for din daeng also for for other sites of the black songkran, the government website http://www.factreport.go.th don't come up with much pictures where i can really see masses of red shirts rioting.

and it's not denying, but put it in relation, in relation to the peaceful side of the red shirt rallies and in relation of whatever we have seen from the yellow team.

[HagenvonTronje]

Probably the most distasteful outcome of these events, after the murder of two innocent civilians, is the lack of regret, and the inability to take the blame and admit to the crimes committed, shown by a number of red supporters here and elsewhere. A large number of former red supporters have turned away from them in disgust, yet for these hardcore fans, many of whom have denied in this forum that they are indeed supporters, there is none of that. They wriggle around, blaming imposters, third hands, the army, blue shirts, Abhisit, anyone and everyone except the true perpetrators of the violence. It doesn't matter if 99.9% of the reds were angelic protestors, meekly sitting outside Government House; if none of them face up to what the 0.1% (not that I believe at all that the proportion was as small as that) did, and unconditionally condemn it, apologise to the families of those murdered, and those who had their lives and homes threatened, they are all to be lumped in the same group. Terrorists and terrorist supporters. Instead, we are barraged with posts repeating the same unproved insinuations and blatant lies by these hard core, head in the sand, reddites, that would do their cowardly, can't face the consequences of his actions, blame everyone else, lying leader proud. Sadly, I'm not even that surprised. These people don't even have the guts to come out and say who they support: "I don't support the reds / Thaksin". "I'm not really interested". "I don't even care". "I'm too lazy to post the proof, but it's out there". I could find these quotes on numerous anti Abhisit posts over a number of threads.

...

introducing the innocent residents

i know, it's very shaky and all and unclear, see the motobike that get smashed, it's near a zebra crossing. there are some pics, the same situation?

have you ever seen such photos that showed acts of very similar nature before?

[animatic]

Right P_D,

blame the people defending their homes from a potential immolation from a tanker explosion.

[ballpoint]

introducing the innocent residents

(video snipped to save space)

i know, it's very shaky and all and unclear, see the motobike that get smashed, it's near a zebra crossing. there are some pics, the same situation?

(Photo's snipped to save space)

have you ever seen such photos that showed acts of very similar nature before?

So that's your only reply? Nobody is denying that the residents of the threatened buildings came out to defend themselves and their homes. The only sad part is that when the next group of residents tried the same thing, the reds were forewarned and murdered two of them.

[justanothercybertosser]

Probably the most distasteful outcome of these events, after the murder of two innocent civilians,

Rubbish. Just because Suthep said so, does not mean that it is so. The video and photos here have shown that they were nothing but a lynch mob.

In the afternoon, red shirts were shot at and wounded as well, from "innocent civilians" out of petchaburi soi 5.

It is extremely distasteful trying to make out the PAD as a peaceful protest group. Both groups have inflicted brutal violence on their opponents, there is more than enough proof of that.

[Jingthing]

It is extremely distasteful trying to make out the PAD as a peaceful protest group. Both groups have inflicted brutal violence on their opponents, there is more than enough proof of that.

Objective people and that includes the vast SILENT MAJORITY in Thailand have correctly judged that the red/Thaksinista side is the much more violent side. It is true also that PAD has not been 100 pacifist, but there is no comparison on the thug-meter, reds win hands down.

[justanothercybertosser]

It is extremely distasteful trying to make out the PAD as a peaceful protest group. Both groups have inflicted brutal violence on their opponents, there is more than enough proof of that.

Objective people and that includes the vast SILENT MAJORITY in Thailand have correctly judged that the red/Thaksinista side is the much more violent side. It is true also that PAD has not been 100 pacifist, but there is no comparison on the thug-meter, reds win hands down.

Who then are the "objective" people?

[Jingthing]

Who then are the "objective" people?

Pretty much everyone who is not a true believer RED, that's who. Most of Thailand. They ARE more violent. That is a FACT. Now in history there are movements that can JUSTIFY violence with massive support on the ground. Thaksin was counting on that. He gambled. He lost. That support DID NOT EXIST.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[ballpoint]

Probably the most distasteful outcome of these events, after the murder of two innocent civilians,

Rubbish. Just because Suthep said so, does not mean that it is so. The video and photos here have shown that they were nothing but a lynch mob.

In the afternoon, red shirts were shot at and wounded as well, from "innocent civilians" out of petchaburi soi 5.

It is extremely distasteful trying to make out the PAD as a peaceful protest group. Both groups have inflicted brutal violence on their opponents, there is more than enough proof of that.

I couldn't care less what Suthep said, I'm relying on the interviews with the Din Daeng residents. I suppose you and Mrs JACT would sit in your flat, awaiting the warm "wooof" as the gas went up? Seeing how far you could travel without leaving your armchair. Or maybe you'd make the thugs a nice cup of tea, it's not as if you'd have to worry about the gas bill? Call me a violent, one man lynch mob, but anyone parking a 10 ton calor cannister outside my house and threatening my wife, daughter and me with immolation will be beaten to a pulp with whatever I can get my hands on, along with his motorscooter, or even using his motorscooter. Cue the "ooh, the yellow supporters are violent" posts.

The main difference between the PAD's violence, and the red shirts, was that the PAD, on the whole, stayed in marked out territory and attacked people who came near them, while the reds, on the whole, went out of their way to attack the PAD and anyone else who got in their way. Your claims that it is otherwise are not distasteful, just false.

Your attempt to justify not having any remorse for those murdered by calling them a lynch mob has also been noted. As I said in my original post, it's what I'd expect from a thug apologist.

[justanothercybertosser]

Probably the most distasteful outcome of these events, after the murder of two innocent civilians,

Rubbish. Just because Suthep said so, does not mean that it is so. The video and photos here have shown that they were nothing but a lynch mob.

In the afternoon, red shirts were shot at and wounded as well, from "innocent civilians" out of petchaburi soi 5.

It is extremely distasteful trying to make out the PAD as a peaceful protest group. Both groups have inflicted brutal violence on their opponents, there is more than enough proof of that.

I couldn't care less what Suthep said, I'm relying on the interviews with the Din Daeng residents. I suppose you and Mrs JACT would sit in your flat, awaiting the warm "wooof" as the gas went up? Seeing how far you could travel without leaving your armchair. Or maybe you'd make the thugs a nice cup of tea, it's not as if you'd have to worry about the gas bill? Call me a violent, one man lynch mob, but anyone parking a 10 ton calor cannister outside my house and threatening my wife, daughter and me with immolation will be beaten to a pulp with whatever I can get my hands on, along with his motorscooter, or even using his motorscooter. Cue the "ooh, the yellow supporters are violent" posts.

The main difference between the PAD's violence, and the red shirts, was that the PAD, on the whole, stayed in marked out territory and attacked people who came near them, while the reds, on the whole, went out of their way to attack the PAD and anyone else who got in their way. Your claims that it is otherwise are not distasteful, just false.

Your attempt to justify not having any remorse for those murdered by calling them a lynch mob has also been noted. As I said in my original post, it's what I'd expect from a thug apologist.

And you confuse the events here. No residents at Din Daeng apartments were killed during the idiotic gas tanker situation. The two dead "innocent civilians" died during the fighting at Nang Loern, a completely different part of town.

Before going off your nut, at least inform yourself of what happened where and when.

Din Daeng - morning till about early afternoon. No dead residents.

Petchaburi soi 5 - several Red Shirts shot by "innocent civilians".

Nang Loern/Yommarat - hours of brutal fighting at night between "innocent civilians" (strongly pro-PAD together with PAD re-enforcements) and Red Shirts. Two dead "innocent residents", and allegedly several Red Shirts whose corpses have not been found yet.

There is only one "thug apologist" here, and that is you, defending PAD violence.

Edited May 4, 2009 by justanothercybertosser

[justanothercybertosser]

Who then are the "objective" people?

Pretty much everyone who is not a true believer RED, that's who. Most of Thailand. They ARE more violent. That is a FACT. Now in history there are movements that can JUSTIFY violence with massive support on the ground. Thaksin was counting on that. He gambled. He lost. That support DID NOT EXIST.

I will not debate on this level. Just wait and see how much support red still has under large sectors of the population.

If you are right, the mass protests will be over. I very much doubt that though.

[HagenvonTronje]

introducing the innocent residents

(video snipped to save space)

i know, it's very shaky and all and unclear, see the motobike that get smashed, it's near a zebra crossing. there are some pics, the same situation?

(Photo's snipped to save space)

have you ever seen such photos that showed acts of very similar nature before?

So that's your only reply? Nobody is denying that the residents of the threatened buildings came out to defend themselves and their homes. The only sad part is that when the next group of residents tried the same thing, the reds were forewarned and murdered two of them.

yep, my reply. photos of an ugly disturbing mob action. people who left sanity and justice behind. but stll have lots of apologigiston TVforum.

and it isn't the first time that i asked for pictures to prove all the stories that have been told here. i asked because i have seen other photos. (and i am the one who said before, that he is to 'lazy' to post pictures that counter some of the "facts", that got repeated again and again by the believers.)

so if a dozen of people in mob rage beat a man who i already on the ground, that is merely only self defence as long the man on the ground wearing a red shirt, right?

on another corners of the town, red shirts and local residents mixed well together, celebrating songkran, tell the army to go home.

and apple, a true global citizen and currently expat resident of rajaprarop road, introduced himself to team green.

[ballpoint]

And you confuse the events here. No residents at Din Daeng apartments were killed during the idiotic gas tanker situation. The two dead "innocent civilians" died during the fighting at Nang Loern, a completely different part of town.

Before going off your nut, at least inform yourself of what happened where and when.

Din Daeng - morning till about early afternoon. No dead residents.

Petchaburi soi 5 - several Red Shirts shot by "innocent civilians".

Nang Loern/Yommarat - hours of brutal fighting at night between "innocent civilians" (strongly pro-PAD together with PAD re-enforcements) and Red Shirts. Two dead "innocent residents", and allegedly several Red Shirts whose corpses have not been found yet.

There is only one "thug apologist" here, and that is you, defending PAD violence.

Oh, puhlease:

1. Din Daeng: The residents had enough of "the idiotic gas tanker situation" (strange way to descibe what could have been a lethal situation) and fought off the reds.

2. Phetchaburi Soi 5: following the attack on a mosque in soi 7, the residents fought off the reds, using whatever weapons they had, inluding firearms.

3. Nang Loern: The reds decide to attack a PAD stronghold and murder two residents following a long fight.

What's the common denominator? The reds actively going somewhere and threatening to, or succeeding in, causing trouble. If they had have sat in one place, as the PAD did at the start of their protests, this violence would not have occurred. It was entirely of their own making. But then, that was their leaders, including Thaksin, plan all along. Cause trouble and hope for an overreaction by the military. Tough luck, it never took place, they lost any moral ground they may have had and were exposed to the world as the violent thugs they are. The PAD did not maraud around Bangkok - there's quite a wide area covered by these locations, picking fights with the locals. They began peaceful protests and were attacked by a group whose sole reason for existing was to attack them - the red shirts. Sorry if you can't accept it, but facts are facts.

[chrislarsson]

Who then are the "objective" people?

Pretty much everyone who is not a true believer RED, that's who. Most of Thailand. They ARE more violent. That is a FACT. Now in history there are movements that can JUSTIFY violence with massive support on the ground. Thaksin was counting on that. He gambled. He lost. That support DID NOT EXIST.

Interesting view. I guess that what you are trying to say is that anyone who holds the same views as you are objective. Never mind that they are painted in black and white.

[sriracha john]

This is really getting tiresome.

It doesn't matter if something is countered 20 pages back in another thread, the same rants come back 10 times per week and always without any proof, just allegations.

Now apparently Abhisit has 'used violence' towards the red.

Bear in mind there is a huge propoganda campaign going on to rewrite what people saw live on TV with their own eyes. Expect more and more of this. It could well be part of the campaign itself.

This thread is indeed ample evidence of that and the irony that so much of it is being written by returning members previously banned is quite stark.

[Jingthing]

Who then are the "objective" people?

Pretty much everyone who is not a true believer RED, that's who. Most of Thailand. They ARE more violent. That is a FACT. Now in history there are movements that can JUSTIFY violence with massive support on the ground. Thaksin was counting on that. He gambled. He lost. That support DID NOT EXIST.

Interesting view. I guess that what you are trying to say is that anyone who holds the same views as you are objective. Never mind that they are painted in black and white.

That is not what I am saying.

Let me put it another way: do YOU seriously believe that overall the yellow shirts are more violent and thuggish than the reds? I have never heard of even one person thats says that who is not a deep red sympathizer themselves. On the other hand, it is very common for more neutral people to realize the obvious about the more violent nature of the red movement. Now if you wish to argue that violence is JUSTIFIED that is a different subject.

What led up to the yellow "victory" at the airport was MANY MONTHS of endless boring mostly non-violent demos. The reds under criminal Thaksin thought they could just "graduate" to a violent pro anarchy tactic and roll the dice and maybe win. They failed. They were way too impatient and way too violent.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[sriracha john]

Previously, on April 25th, as a condition of their release on bail to cease and desist:

Veera, Nattawut and Weng are not making speeches at UDD's mass rally tonight

A lawyer of the UDD, Karom Poltaklang, revealed today (April 25) that the three core-leaders recently released on bail would not give any speeches on the rally stage in the mass rally at Sanam Luang later today.

Mr. Karom told the press today that Nattawut Saikuae, Veera Musikapong, and Weng Tojirakarn, 3 core leaders of the UDD who were recently released on bail would not give any speeches on the rally stage in the mass rally of the UDD held tonight at Sanam Luang.

Deputy Commissioner of Metropolitan Police, Police Major-General Suporn Pansua stated that the three leaders would firstly be warned if they got on the rally stage and started giving speeches. It they insisted on making political speeches, their bails could be revoked by court orders.

-- NNT 2009-04-25

and now...

REDS' RALLY

Reds to set record straight on Sunday

The Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship will be holding a major rally in the Don Mueang area on Sunday to allegedly set the record straight about what happened during the Songkran Day riots.

DAAD leader Veera Musikapong said yesterday at a press conference at the D-Station that the red shirts would gather at Wat Pai Kiew to hold a Chinese-style party from 4pm to midnight.

Pheu Thai Party MP and red-shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan said they would discuss what had happened during Songkran. He also dismissed Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's statement that the emergency decree had to be imposed after some protesters cornered him at the Interior Ministry. The prime minister's car was battered by red-shirt crowds and he narrowly escaped a physical assault.

Jatuporn also rejected a statement from PM's Secretary-General Nipon Promphan that the red shirts had attacked him, saying what actually happened was that the protesters helped remove Nipon from the car.

He said the red shirts would "reveal the truth" about what happened on that day in a chronological manner. "We will reveal that this government is a tyrant and a murderer,'' he said.

Abhisit said he was willing to let D-Station resume broadcasting if it promised not to provoke unrest and intimidate the media.

Meanwhile, National Police Commissioner General Patcharawat Wongsuwan said the police would use strict measures on Sunday to keep law and order. He added that there were no intelligence reports as to whether the red shirts were planning to disrupt the ASEAN meeting of health ministers at Bangkok's Dusit Thani Hotel on Thursday and Friday.

In Chiang Mai, about 30 red shirts led by DAAD leader Surachai Sae-Dan met at a hotel to chart out their political direction.

Petcharawat Wattanapongsirikul, a red-shirt leader in Chiang Mai, said the DAAD people would close their accounts with Bangkok Bank because it supported the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Another DAAD leader, Somyos Prueksakasemsuk, said the closing of bank accounts was a peaceful struggle and that every citizen had the right to do so. He said the red shirts would not pressure the government by disrupting the ASEAN meeting, but will demand that the government allow D-Station to start broadcasting.

-- The Nation 2009-05-05

[justanothercybertosser]

And you confuse the events here. No residents at Din Daeng apartments were killed during the idiotic gas tanker situation. The two dead "innocent civilians" died during the fighting at Nang Loern, a completely different part of town.

Before going off your nut, at least inform yourself of what happened where and when.

Din Daeng - morning till about early afternoon. No dead residents.

Petchaburi soi 5 - several Red Shirts shot by "innocent civilians".

Nang Loern/Yommarat - hours of brutal fighting at night between "innocent civilians" (strongly pro-PAD together with PAD re-enforcements) and Red Shirts. Two dead "innocent residents", and allegedly several Red Shirts whose corpses have not been found yet.

There is only one "thug apologist" here, and that is you, defending PAD violence.

Oh, puhlease:

1. Din Daeng: The residents had enough of "the idiotic gas tanker situation" (strange way to descibe what could have been a lethal situation) and fought off the reds.

2. Phetchaburi Soi 5: following the attack on a mosque in soi 7, the residents fought off the reds, using whatever weapons they had, inluding firearms.

3. Nang Loern: The reds decide to attack a PAD stronghold and murder two residents following a long fight.

What's the common denominator? The reds actively going somewhere and threatening to, or succeeding in, causing trouble. If they had have sat in one place, as the PAD did at the start of their protests, this violence would not have occurred. It was entirely of their own making. But then, that was their leaders, including Thaksin, plan all along. Cause trouble and hope for an overreaction by the military. Tough luck, it never took place, they lost any moral ground they may have had and were exposed to the world as the violent thugs they are. The PAD did not maraud around Bangkok - there's quite a wide area covered by these locations, picking fights with the locals. They began peaceful protests and were attacked by a group whose sole reason for existing was to attack them - the red shirts. Sorry if you can't accept it, but facts are facts.

I am shocked and disgusted that even after having videos and photos presented of Red Shirts being brutally beaten by a mob you can still call this mob "innocent residents".

You time line is absolutely wrong. The Petchaburi incidents began with the so called "residents" shooting at Red Shirts, and not the way you describe.

The Din Daeng incident i call idiotic because nobody died. If the Red Shirts would have set the tanker alight, i would call it criminally insane.

I am more than aware that much of what happened was the fault of the Red Shirt leadership. I stated many times that the Red Shirts are as violent as the Yellow shirts. But the picture your paint here to suit your agenda is completely out of order. You ignore the incidents of Blue Shirts attacking and shooting Red Shirts in Pattaya, and what these incidents contributed to the escalation. This mob was set up by the government.

You whitewash PAD violence, and the people the PAD has killed and injured.

I am truly disgusted.

[Plus]

Red Shirts being brutally beaten by a mob

Just an example of gratitude for staging "people revolution".

Pravit of the Nation delivered the quote of his career describing that day - "not everybody loves reds".

[Cayenne]

To be fair, the yellows employ some of the same "thug guards" as the reds- I know this because two of them are selling khao niew in front of my house each morning and last year they were hired as yellow guards at 500 baht a day and last month they were hired as red guards for the same rate. So the potential for violence is the same for both groups.

But what I cannot accept is simply the fact that the reds have chosen to escalate violence to the level which people are killed and injured and furthermore the level of violence was actively goaded on by the red leadership...I don't believe the claims that the "fake reds" caused all of these because to believe this would whitewash the reds of all responsibility and then yellows could use the same argument to absolve them of the airport takeover.

[sriracha john]

I am shocked and disgusted

I am truly disgusted.

[Insight]

As we're in the habit of posting mindless YouTube videos, here's the red's theme tune for next Sunday:

Molotov cocktails to be left at home for this one then?

/edit - Can't embed. Link.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Insight

[animatic]

To be fair, the yellows employ some of the same "thug guards" as the reds- I know this because two of them are selling khao niew in front of my house each morning and last year they were hired as yellow guards at 500 baht a day and last month they were hired as red guards for the same rate. So the potential for violence is the same for both groups.

But what I cannot accept is simply the fact that the reds have chosen to escalate violence to the level which people are killed and injured and furthermore the level of violence was actively goaded on by the red leadership...

I don't believe the claims that the "fake reds" caused all of these because to believe this would whitewash the reds of all responsibility and then yellows could use the same argument to absolve them of the airport takeover.

The main difference is that the POTENTIAL was not reached with the Yellows UNLESS ATTACKED.

And usually suqelched ASAP.

While with the Reds the leadership certainly did NOTHING to reign them in until

they had clearly lost the battle for hearts and minds and had to quickly backtrack.

In most cases the rhetoric from Red stages encouraged a revolution in the streets.

One damanded changes in the system and defending itself from violent attacks, with their own guards.

The other was demanding to CONTROL the system and using threats and violence to that end.

World of difference.

[chrislarsson]

Who then are the "objective" people?

Pretty much everyone who is not a true believer RED, that's who. Most of Thailand. They ARE more violent. That is a FACT. Now in history there are movements that can JUSTIFY violence with massive support on the ground. Thaksin was counting on that. He gambled. He lost. That support DID NOT EXIST.

Interesting view. I guess that what you are trying to say is that anyone who holds the same views as you are objective. Never mind that they are painted in black and white.

That is not what I am saying.

Let me put it another way: do YOU seriously believe that overall the yellow shirts are more violent and thuggish than the reds? I have never heard of even one person thats says that who is not a deep red sympathizer themselves. On the other hand, it is very common for more neutral people to realize the obvious about the more violent nature of the red movement. Now if you wish to argue that violence is JUSTIFIED that is a different subject.

What led up to the yellow "victory" at the airport was MANY MONTHS of endless boring mostly non-violent demos. The reds under criminal Thaksin thought they could just "graduate" to a violent pro anarchy tactic and roll the dice and maybe win. They failed. They were way too impatient and way too violent.

I think the reds wanted to provoke the army to use violence to expose their bias. I think if the army would have attacked the yellows at the government house or the airports things could have turned quite violent there as well.

Overall, the ideas of PAD scares me. They want to dictate the politics in Thailand, while not be held accountable for anything. I would rather see them in the government than dictating it from outside. But I think the place they belong is in jail.

If I could vote, I would probably vote for the democrats. I'm not a supporter of the reds, but I don't have any difficulties in seeing why they are upset.

[LawnGnome]

And you confuse the events here. No residents at Din Daeng apartments were killed during the idiotic gas tanker situation. The two dead "innocent civilians" died during the fighting at Nang Loern, a completely different part of town.

Before going off your nut, at least inform yourself of what happened where and when.

Din Daeng - morning till about early afternoon. No dead residents.

Petchaburi soi 5 - several Red Shirts shot by "innocent civilians".

Nang Loern/Yommarat - hours of brutal fighting at night between "innocent civilians" (strongly pro-PAD together with PAD re-enforcements) and Red Shirts. Two dead "innocent residents", and allegedly several Red Shirts whose corpses have not been found yet.

There is only one "thug apologist" here, and that is you, defending PAD violence.

Oh, puhlease:

1. Din Daeng: The residents had enough of "the idiotic gas tanker situation" (strange way to descibe what could have been a lethal situation) and fought off the reds.

2. Phetchaburi Soi 5: following the attack on a mosque in soi 7, the residents fought off the reds, using whatever weapons they had, inluding firearms.

3. Nang Loern: The reds decide to attack a PAD stronghold and murder two residents following a long fight.

What's the common denominator? The reds actively going somewhere and threatening to, or succeeding in, causing trouble. If they had have sat in one place, as the PAD did at the start of their protests, this violence would not have occurred. It was entirely of their own making. But then, that was their leaders, including Thaksin, plan all along. Cause trouble and hope for an overreaction by the military. Tough luck, it never took place, they lost any moral ground they may have had and were exposed to the world as the violent thugs they are. The PAD did not maraud around Bangkok - there's quite a wide area covered by these locations, picking fights with the locals. They began peaceful protests and were attacked by a group whose sole reason for existing was to attack them - the red shirts. Sorry if you can't accept it, but facts are facts.

I am shocked and disgusted that even after having videos and photos presented of Red Shirts being brutally beaten by a mob you can still call this mob "innocent residents".

You time line is absolutely wrong. The Petchaburi incidents began with the so called "residents" shooting at Red Shirts, and not the way you describe.

The Din Daeng incident i call idiotic because nobody died. If the Red Shirts would have set the tanker alight, i would call it criminally insane.

I am more than aware that much of what happened was the fault of the Red Shirt leadership. I stated many times that the Red Shirts are as violent as the Yellow shirts. But the picture your paint here to suit your agenda is completely out of order. You ignore the incidents of Blue Shirts attacking and shooting Red Shirts in Pattaya, and what these incidents contributed to the escalation. This mob was set up by the government.

You whitewash PAD violence, and the people the PAD has killed and injured.

I am truly disgusted.

Im so glad you have the freedom to express your opinion.

[animatic]

Who then are the "objective" people?

Pretty much everyone who is not a true believer RED, that's who. Most of Thailand. They ARE more violent. That is a FACT. Now in history there are movements that can JUSTIFY violence with massive support on the ground. Thaksin was counting on that. He gambled. He lost. That support DID NOT EXIST.

Interesting view. I guess that what you are trying to say is that anyone who holds the same views as you are objective. Never mind that they are painted in black and white.

That is not what I am saying.

Let me put it another way: do YOU seriously believe that overall the yellow shirts are more violent and thuggish than the reds? I have never heard of even one person thats says that who is not a deep red sympathizer themselves. On the other hand, it is very common for more neutral people to realize the obvious about the more violent nature of the red movement. Now if you wish to argue that violence is JUSTIFIED that is a different subject.

What led up to the yellow "victory" at the airport was MANY MONTHS of endless boring mostly non-violent demos. The reds under criminal Thaksin thought they could just "graduate" to a violent pro anarchy tactic and roll the dice and maybe win. They failed. They were way too impatient and way too violent.

I think the reds wanted to provoke the army to use violence to expose their bias. I think if the army would have attacked the yellows at the government house or the airports things could have turned quite violent there as well.

Overall, the ideas of PAD scares me. They want to dictate the politics in Thailand, while not be held accountable for anything. I would rather see them in the government than dictating it from outside. But I think the place they belong is in jail.

If I could vote, I would probably vote for the democrats. I'm not a supporter of the reds, but I don't have any difficulties in seeing why they are upset.

Very few people don't what things to go as THEY think they should go.

PAD is no different even as PAD has many many different groups under it's umbrella all wanting different things.

The point is they have as much right to loudly speak their minds about potential solutions as anyone else.

The ONLY one who has acted like a actual dictator, in classic 3rd world terms, was Thaksin in his 'in office authoritarian absoluteness'.

The UN is not my father,

Democracy is not my aim.

And on and on.

Edited May 5, 2009 by animatic

[chrislarsson]

Very few people don't what things to go as THEY think they should go.

PAD is no different even as PAD has many many different groups under it's umbrella all wanting different things.

The point is they have as much right to loudly speak their minds about potential solutions as anyone else.

The ONLY one who has acted like a actual dictator, in classic 3rd world terms, was Thaksin in his 'in office authoritarian absoluteness'.

The UN is not my father,

Democracy is not my aim.

And on and on.

Of course they have the right to speak as loudly as they like. But I cannot see how this right can include occupying government houses and airports. And they continue to threat to do the same thing again every time there are something they don't agree with. This is how terrorists are talking, not proponents of a liberal society.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

Them taking the airport for a MONTH is better than killing one human being. Unless for you money is more important then a life. And apart from that, as has been stated previously, in Europe airports are blocked regularly by protesters, too. The Europeans just know how to deal with it. (and there it's usually rather minor things such as this-and-that labour union demanding 0.25% higher wages).

Regards.....

Thanh