Does Thailand Want Us Here?

[thaimate]

actually when i said US i meant white black russian ,anyone who is not Thai and i was refering to the thai authoraties as opposed to the Thai people . i just feel that if you are not Thai they couldnt give a f--- and if you dont like it leave and take your Thai wife and children with you,also for tourists its just grab what we can and then bugger off home.

again i say i have on the whole found the Thai 'people" great.

[Crushdepth]

Xenophobes make poor hosts.

Seconded.

Totally agree.

me too!

And me. Foreigners are welcome to visit and spend tons of cash to prop up the local economy but they are not at all welcome to stay.

[mmrooms]

And me. Foreigners are welcome to visit and spend tons of cash to prop up the local economy but they are not at all welcome to stay.

are you happy that people come to thailand because many thai women whore themselves out?

I would be ashamed.... But anyone is free to be happy with what he wants... Anyhow you are the first person I met that is happy that some women from his country are whore...

[thaiwanderer]

Farang money is more than welcome. All other activity is just to get the money. Even then Thailand need not be too welcoming because Farangs keep bringing money. It isn't a secret. Thats the deal.

[mmrooms]

Farang money is more than welcome. All other activity is just to get the money. Even then Thailand need not be too welcoming because Farangs keep bringing money. It isn't a secret. Thats the deal.

Western are polite with thai immigrants, thai are not polite with westerns. Even tough we saved your ass back in 2004. Thailand: what a great example of civilization

[barryofthailand]

Weeeeeeeeee, another thread about us and them.

When you use the term "us", please don't assume that we are all the same. If your "us" includes people of marginal income, lacking needed job skills or not possessing an ability to truly contribute to the well being and economic growth of Thailand, then yes, your assessment is correct. Horrible isn't it that

So let's look at your complaints shall we?

draconian visa regulations

Thailand has the same position as other countries like Australia, Canada, the USA and the EU. When was the last time you saw Australia set up a recruiting booth in Africa, India or even Europe and ask uneducated people that would contribute nothing of great value to the society or economy to move to Australia? You do realize that the UK, USA etc. all impose financial requirements in order to obtain investment or retirement visas right? Do you know how difficult it is for a Thai to get a tourist visa to a western country?

things like double pricing,

We already have a thread going on that but I know from my own experience in other countries that I often paid more for local services. Need some examples? Take boring Canada;

- University tuition for "foreign" students is in the tens of thousands while students resident in the province pay only a few thousand.

- Medical care is "free" to residents that may pay for some services such as non hospital based tests. Foreigners pay rates and costs that would preclude most Thais from obtaining medical care. For example, the charge to a non resident for a doctor visit can be $100-$250 depending upon the province. This is significantly higher than the $20-$40. a foreigner is charged in Thailand.

- Entrance to SixFlags amusement park in Montreal: Non residents pay approx. 2X the cost of residents.

150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m.

What's your point? Western banks do the same thing. When use a bank that isn't my branch in the west, I pay an atm access fee + my bank's added fee. This can amount to 150B as well. I just noticed that my west issued Mastercard has been adding 200b fees to my card for purchases I made on the internet in the west.

,not being able to own land ,

Did you know that in Prince Edward Island, Canada non residents are not allowed to purchase land? The locals passed the law because they were worried about all sorts of rich foreigners coming in and buying up the province. It has withstood all sorts of court challenges because the law was intended to protect the local culture. Just like in PEI, if there would be a free for all in Thailand that would occur if foreigners were allowed to own land. Large chunks of agricultural land would be drawn out of the economy. Nevermind that, but alot of folks whining about not being able to buy land might then be whining about Indians, Chinese and Arabs forcing up land prices beyond the reach of western retirees because they were on buying sprees.

For those of "us" that are responsible citizens and have either the financial wherewithall or important job skills or that can help the economy, the welcome is there. If someone just wants to sit around drinking beer and copulating with impoverished sex workers in Pattaya and that would be considered trash in his or her own country, no the welcome isn't there.

I wouldn't be so sure that all banks will be charging 150 Baht for a withdrawel using a foreign atm card. SCB has no mention of this on their wbsite.

Barry

[deprogrammed]

Xenophobes make poor hosts.

'Thai Love Thai' Party was very popular It may as well have been named 'Thai Love Thai Hate Foreigner Party'

Edited April 20, 2009 by deprogrammed

[fanta rood]

Foreigners are not welcome in Thailand. Dont like it? Then take your money and leave.

All they do is just look down on thai people, cause trouble and buy people with their money.

[Penkoprod]

I wouldn't be so sure that all banks will be charging 150 Baht for a withdrawel using a foreign atm card. SCB has no mention of this on their wbsite.

Barry

They were the FIRST to implement it

Just go to an ATM and try it out

Why would they inform their mainly Thai customers about a charge levied to foreigners anyway?

Penkoprod

[webfact]

Foreigners are not welcome in Thailand. Dont like it? Then take your money and leave.

All they do is just look down on thai people, cause trouble and buy people with their money.

I am just wondering why so many Thais then want to go to Amerigaaa, Goeraman, Angrit. Farangset... must have a reason or not?

... of course foreigners look down on Thai people, because our average height is 5'8 +++... hope you got it right and can take a good joke

Edited April 20, 2009 by webfact

[LooseCannon]

...... Foreigners are welcome to visit and spend tons of cash to prop up the local economy but they are not at all welcome to stay.

Yes - but once they become long term stayers they stop spending "tons of cash", they become just an insignificant part of the local economy.

Sorry to deflate the bubble, but we are really not that important despite what individuals may think.

[thaiwanderer]

Farang money is more than welcome. All other activity is just to get the money. Even then Thailand need not be too welcoming because Farangs keep bringing money. It isn't a secret. Thats the deal.

Western are polite with thai immigrants, thai are not polite with westerns. Even tough we saved your ass back in 2004. Thailand: what a great example of civilization

Massive generalisation there, nevermind.

How exactly did you save our ass (and who exactly is 'you' - you personally or every non-thai in the world)?

[Oberkommando]

Bottom line is they certainly don't want us emigrating here and staying permanently.

There are quotas of something like 100 per nation for permanent residency per annum to Thailand and lower ratios for citizenship.

I wouldn't be so sure that all banks will be charging 150 Baht for a withdrawel using a foreign atm card. SCB has no mention of this on their wbsite.

Barry

It was agreed by the Thai Banker's Association members.

https://www.thanachartbank.co.th/CDS/THANAC...tm032009_en.pdf

[JR Texas]

Might as well forget it........I have been trying for years to get the love Thailand or leave it crowd (many living here under grandfathered in visa rules) to understand your unstated point: The visa bar continues to be raised and eventually will hurt all expats. They don't get it and won't until the bar starts strangling them.

Dont take this the wrong way, because i agree with more than half your postings, but............why do you constantly bang on about how badly they treat Foreigners, but continue to live there?

Dont make sense to me and, i am sure a lot of others on the board too

Penkoprod

When a problem surfaces that needs a solution, some people ignore it, some people take action to make the problem worse, some people run from it, and some people do what they can to solve it. It is not in my nature to run from a problem or ignore it. I would never attempt to make a problem worse (can't stand problem creators). As an academic, I prefer to take action in the form of altering the flow of cultural information in a way that will hopefully open eyes and lead to positive change. Maybe in the world we live in that is considered "boring."

[PaulUSA302]

Interesting, curious to know what the fee would be if I used my Thai Bank card in London? Seems to me this is not a Thai issue as much as a 'Bank' issue.

It's a bank issue. I get charged when using my Thai ATM card abroad, and I get charged for using my Australian ATM card in Thailand. Banks the world over are looking to increase fee revenues. I think this varies from bank to bank, but the charge used to be 100B for using an SCB ATM card abroad. I haven't done it for a few months, so it could have gone up.

Here in the USA there are many places I can go and use my ATM card and not be charged a fee for using it. Some 7-11's have fee free ATM's and every WAWA (7-11 type store) has free ATM's. I can go to any grocery store and use my ATM and get cash back without getting charged a fee.

You can even use your Thai ATM card at any of these locations and be able to use the ATM machine free of charge but your host bank may add their own fee.

[PaulUSA302]

Weeeeeeeeee, another thread about us and them.

When you use the term "us", please don't assume that we are all the same. If your "us" includes people of marginal income, lacking needed job skills or not possessing an ability to truly contribute to the well being and economic growth of Thailand, then yes, your assessment is correct. Horrible isn't it that

So let's look at your complaints shall we?

draconian visa regulations

Thailand has the same position as other countries like Australia, Canada, the USA and the EU. When was the last time you saw Australia set up a recruiting booth in Africa, India or even Europe and ask uneducated people that would contribute nothing of great value to the society or economy to move to Australia? You do realize that the UK, USA etc. all impose financial requirements in order to obtain investment or retirement visas right? Do you know how difficult it is for a Thai to get a tourist visa to a western country?

things like double pricing,

We already have a thread going on that but I know from my own experience in other countries that I often paid more for local services. Need some examples? Take boring Canada;

- University tuition for "foreign" students is in the tens of thousands while students resident in the province pay only a few thousand.

- Medical care is "free" to residents that may pay for some services such as non hospital based tests. Foreigners pay rates and costs that would preclude most Thais from obtaining medical care. For example, the charge to a non resident for a doctor visit can be $100-$250 depending upon the province. This is significantly higher than the $20-$40. a foreigner is charged in Thailand.

- Entrance to SixFlags amusement park in Montreal: Non residents pay approx. 2X the cost of residents.

150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m.

What's your point? Western banks do the same thing. When use a bank that isn't my branch in the west, I pay an atm access fee + my bank's added fee. This can amount to 150B as well. I just noticed that my west issued Mastercard has been adding 200b fees to my card for purchases I made on the internet in the west.

,not being able to own land ,

Did you know that in Prince Edward Island, Canada non residents are not allowed to purchase land? The locals passed the law because they were worried about all sorts of rich foreigners coming in and buying up the province. It has withstood all sorts of court challenges because the law was intended to protect the local culture. Just like in PEI, if there would be a free for all in Thailand that would occur if foreigners were allowed to own land. Large chunks of agricultural land would be drawn out of the economy. Nevermind that, but alot of folks whining about not being able to buy land might then be whining about Indians, Chinese and Arabs forcing up land prices beyond the reach of western retirees because they were on buying sprees.

For those of "us" that are responsible citizens and have either the financial wherewithall or important job skills or that can help the economy, the welcome is there. If someone just wants to sit around drinking beer and copulating with impoverished sex workers in Pattaya and that would be considered trash in his or her own country, no the welcome isn't there.

Funny... You cherry pick laws and rules from lands all over the globe to compare, yet all those sad rules can be found in one single country

[colino]

Up this morning i would have said yes.

But after being fined 1000 Baht for dropping a cig butt down a drain this moring near soi 22 .

I must say no

The same cop then went on to fine 2 of a group of 6 tourists for dropping a 7-11 recipt next to the bin.

colino

PS Yes i know he was up holding the litter law but what away to win friends in the present climate.

Have they never heard about 1 person tells 10 others if they have a bad experiance

Edited April 20, 2009 by colino

[Oberkommando]

Up this morning i would have said yes.

But after being fined 1000 Baht for dropping a cig butt down a drain this moring near soi 22 .

I must say no

The same cop then went on to fine 2 of a group of 6 tourists for dropping a 7-11 recipt next to the bin.

colino

PS Yes i know he was up holding the litter law but what away to win friends in the present climate.

Have they never heard about 1 person tells 10 others if they have a bad experiance

I thought those guys next to the Queen's Park entrance weren't really Police and had no Jurisdiction?

They are basically Security guards for the park but act like they are real Police.

[MrHammer]

Thais are a very diverse ethnic and cultural group.

I honestly believe that a lot of the racism and laws against foreigners comes from a fear of falling apart as a nation. I see a lot of the same in smaller countries in Europe.

That being said, if you want to be treated like a thai you have to become more like a thai. Learning the language comes first in getting any respect. Thats my experience. Same in many countries in Europe. If you are going to stay you dam_n better learn the language specially if you are from the middle east.

Its a part of living in another country, you just have to deal with peoples prejudice, its the same anywhere, except for truly multicultural places like the US.

I dont give a rats ass about the visa rules or double pricing. I would be happier if I could get rid of some of the ignorant racist idiots you have to put up with every day. You know the ones with dollar signs in their eyes and and a 10 word english vocabulary.

[ernest1966]

If thais are so worried about the land issue, there are many ways around it, Turkey does something similar

- only 10% of land of a certain type is allowed to be sold to foreigners

- this land must be a certain distance of a town, non agricultural and not tourism use land (i.e x no of metres from beach etc)

If someone moves all their money to a country, is willing to give up their nationality, etc why can't thailand accept them ?

Simple thing, I'm married, 1 baby, worked in computers all my life and good at it. But can I get a job ? Nope because when I search for IT jobs in Thailand, all the adverts say "Thai Citizen ID required" only even when I have 20 years IT experience and am a dam_n good coder.

[cat5]

before anyone jumps up and down and shouts ,i love it in Thailand and always have.our neighbours are terrific and i have a good familly who never want anything(except her young brother,lazy sod),but its those in charge ,who always seem to want our money ,but give us nothing in return .things like double pricing,150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m. draconian visa regulations ,not being able to own land ,ect what is it? they keep coming out with guff about making Thailand the perfect destination but to my mind its just b-llocks.

what do you lot think?

I don't want you here, so why would the people at the top feel differently?

[cat5]

Up this morning i would have said yes.

But after being fined 1000 Baht for dropping a cig butt down a drain this moring near soi 22 .

I must say no

The same cop then went on to fine 2 of a group of 6 tourists for dropping a 7-11 recipt next to the bin.

colino

PS Yes i know he was up holding the litter law but what away to win friends in the present climate.

Have they never heard about 1 person tells 10 others if they have a bad experiance

A "cop" fines a *group* of tourists for dropping *a* receipt? You are telling us that a group of people are fined for the action of one person? Seems a bit unbelievable to me.

[MrHammer]

If thais are so worried about the land issue, there are many ways around it, Turkey does something similar

- only 10% of land of a certain type is allowed to be sold to foreigners

- this land must be a certain distance of a town, non agricultural and not tourism use land (i.e x no of metres from beach etc)

If someone moves all their money to a country, is willing to give up their nationality, etc why can't thailand accept them ?

Simple thing, I'm married, 1 baby, worked in computers all my life and good at it. But can I get a job ? Nope because when I search for IT jobs in Thailand, all the adverts say "Thai Citizen ID required" only even when I have 20 years IT experience and am a dam_n good coder.

Citizensships dont come cheap anywhere but the most desperate nations and Panama.

What are the thai rules for appolying for citizenship anyway?

[mmrooms]

Massive generalisation there, nevermind.

could you point me where did I generalized?

How exactly did you save our ass (and who exactly is 'you' - you personally or every non-thai in the world)?

by being a small part of the aids machine.

[kaorop]

many thais and probably most are not aware of some of the stupid or draconian measures in place.

many have asked why i don't buy a house? and other such questions which when answered they show great surprise.

so its only a very few that dont.

[Penkoprod]

When a problem surfaces that needs a solution, some people ignore it, some people take action to make the problem worse, some people run from it, and some people do what they can to solve it. It is not in my nature to run from a problem or ignore it. I would never attempt to make a problem worse (can't stand problem creators). As an academic, I prefer to take action in the form of altering the flow of cultural information in a way that will hopefully open eyes and lead to positive change. Maybe in the world we live in that is considered "boring."

And now you are waffling like a politician

Cant you just give a straight answer to a straight question:

Why do you stay in a place you dont like very much? It must make your very life very unfullfilled

Its not that i'm taking a pot-shot at you....i just cant understand is all

Penkoprod

[bonobo]

This is not about Thailand, but I think it is valid for comparison's sake.

On Discovery tonight, I saw an ad, clearly aimed at the foreigner, which was extolling going to the Philippines and buying your "dream home," with prices starting at $30,000. 

I am not advocating everyone run over to the PI.  But that is clearly a country which welcomes foreigners coming over and staying, in any capacity they can.

[Slip]

yeah. all these broke back packers and english teachers would be running things if not for the elites and their unfair laws!

Im Angry! Grrrrrrrr!

contrary to what you may think not all of us here are backpackers and english teachers. some of us have real jobs and earn real money which can be invested in things such as housing and land.

currently foreigners can not own land here but their company can. there is always a loophole, especially in thailand. this being said if someone wants to, they could in fact own a company which owns land. therefore owning land. however, not everyone wants to own 49% of their land with 7 other thais as chairmen of the company. i know i dont.

my point here is if these laws were opened to allow foreigners to own land directly many people would rush to buy. at least up until the last two years when thailand succesfully f***ed themselves. so today im not sure that it would make a difference.

all in all the laws favor thai and trample foreigners. but maybe that is part of the plan. or should i say welfare program.

bargirl: "my darling!! i help you, you buy land put in my name. we live together long time"

stupid farang: "ok great idea. heres my account information. you handle the transaction"

you know the rest.

I don't know which of your posts to object to more. Both are crassly stereotypical. I'm not even quite sure what Tony's point is, although I can see it's laden with sarcasm. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt Tony; perhaps we even agree.

Arnoldjr, I want to give you a chance to retract (at least some of) your comments. To suggest that teaching English is not a 'proper job' is simply offensive. There are many English teachers working in this country that are well-quallified, diligent, capable, professional or any other positive quality that you might like to attribute to them. I don't know what you do, or why you think that it's so much better than educating others, but quite frankly, unless it has some positive social influence, then it's just you trying to get your grubby little mitts on some cash. I don't see any benefit to Thai cultural values coming from you, so why should they let you stay? FYI, as a teacher, I also earn real money, and could afford to buy land or a house if it was made easier, and I educate their children. Of course this is why I have a work permit and a proper visa

Both of you need to realise that teachers are not the same as back packers although some backpackers become teachers. (Think back to your high school maths about sets and subsets if you can remember that far back). Of those, some will be good and some will not. Backpackers are people who are taking some time to experience the world, many are graduates.

'Nuff said.

[colino]

Up this morning i would have said yes.

But after being fined 1000 Baht for dropping a cig butt down a drain this moring near soi 22 .

I must say no

The same cop then went on to fine 2 of a group of 6 tourists for dropping a 7-11 recipt next to the bin.

colino

PS Yes i know he was up holding the litter law but what away to win friends in the present climate.

Have they never heard about 1 person tells 10 others if they have a bad experiance

A "cop" fines a *group* of tourists for dropping *a* receipt? You are telling us that a group of people are fined for the action of one person? Seems a bit unbelievable to me.

Sorry he fined two people out of six in the group .

The two security guards from the park were writing the tickets .

colino

[mmrooms]

I don't know which of your posts to object to more. Both are crassly stereotypical. I'm not even quite sure what Tony's point is, although I can see it's laden with sarcasm. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt Tony; perhaps we even agree.

Arnoldjr, I want to give you a chance to retract (at least some of) your comments. To suggest that teaching English is not a 'proper job' is simply offensive. There are many English teachers working in this country that are well-quallified, diligent, capable, professional or any other positive quality that you might like to attribute to them. I don't know what you do, or why you think that it's so much better than educating others, but quite frankly, unless it has some positive social influence, then it's just you trying to get your grubby little mitts on some cash. I don't see any benefit to Thai cultural values coming from you, so why should they let you stay? FYI, as a teacher, I also earn real money, and could afford to buy land or a house if it was made easier, and I educate their children. Of course this is why I have a work permit and a proper visa

Both of you need to realise that teachers are not the same as back packers although some backpackers become teachers. (Think back to your high school maths about sets and subsets if you can remember that far back). Of those, some will be good and some will not. Backpackers are people who are taking some time to experience the world, many are graduates.

'Nuff said.

I totally agree.

BTW many backpackers are as honorable as any other person. They are just spending time trying to understand the world, something that too few people try to do nowdays. If we would spend more time understanding others, and less time thinking about ourselves, the world would be a better place.