Convicted Of Cussing; Brit Offender Burrowes To Get Free Tcket Home

[Jingthing]

This is NOT a UK board. You use the word uppity about a black man, I am sorry, I do not believe you for one second that is not offensive. We use the knickers phrase in US English as well and also panties in a bunch. That is NOT offensive, UPPITY is.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Jingthing

[kennkate]

No Jingthing It is not a Uk Board We are told that English is to be used. Not American English.

I made No referance to the UK

[dave111223]

This is NOT a UK board. You use the word uppity about a black man, I am sorry, I do not believe you for one second that is not offensive. We use the knickers phrase in US English as well and also panties in a bunch. That is NOT offensive, UPPITY is.

The phrase was used by an Englishman about an Englishman....how does this involve rednecks in the USA?

Oh sorry, I forgot, everything revolves about the US of A. I also forgot that the US invented the English language, and therefore anything offensive in the US is automatic offensive throughout the Universe.

We bow down to you oh mighty overload...

[Jingthing]

about a BLACK Englishman who has been subject to racist personal attacks for months now by people here of MANY nationalities. Case closed and anti-American insults ignored. Cheers.

:D

Edited May 13, 2009 by Jingthing

[dave111223]

about a BLACK Englishman who has been subject to racist personal attacks for months now by people here of MANY nationalities. Case closed and anti-American insults ignored. Cheers.

:D

This would make sense if phaethon had been involved in the racial insults in the other thread you seem to be talking about? Was he? If not; get over yourself.

[Briggsy]

An insight into the Thai government official's mentality.

A) Suspect someone is a criminal because they have black skin

B ) As a government official, never let any challenge to one's authority pass in case a loss of face/prestige occurs.

C) Even when proved wrong, never admit you're wrong. Keep the black man locked up for 21 days in appalling conditions with murderers and rapists.

D) Still never admitting you are wrong, force the black man to plead guilty to 'being rude to a government official' under threat of a drawn-out court case lasting months possibly years.

E) Still never admitting you are wrong, pay away the problem by funding the black man's enforced stay in Thailand through intermediaries.

F) Still never admitting you are wrong, pay the black man's 20,000 Baht involuntary overstay charge citing an anonymous donor.

G) Still never admitting you are wrong, treat the black man to a swanky meal at a 4-star hotel in Phuket using intermediaries.

H) Still never admitting you are wrong, pay for the black man's flight home once again citing an anonymous donor.

[supbangkok]

He is uppity, you are uppity, this whole courtroom is uppity...isn't that from some Al Pacino movie?

[JohnGotti]

Sorry, but the use of the word uppity in this context is RACIAL.

Jesus H. Christ!

PC Sphincter Police Alert!

he'll probably be back, lol.

WHAT!?

He'll probably be black? That's RACIST! RACIST! Aaaaaaaaaarghh.....ohh!....."back"...er...

Okay.

Carry on.

(Just thought I'd preempt you, Jingthing)

555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555

[Mobi]

Uppity

Merriam Webster:

putting on or marked by airs of superiority : arrogant, presumptuous

Chambers:

colloq self-important; arrogant; uppish.

The Free Online dictionary:

Taking liberties or assuming airs beyond one's station; presumptuous:

Oxford:

• adjective informal self-important.

Controversy on the use of Uppity:

On September 4, 2008, Westmoreland described Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama and his wife Michelle as "uppity," a word historically used to describe African-Americans who have made economic, social, or political progress, the connotation of which is usually seen as negative.He told reporters: "Just from what little I've seen of her and Mr. Obama, Senator Obama, they're a member of an elitist-class individual that thinks that they're uppity," Westmoreland said. Asked to clarify that he used the word "uppity," Westmoreland said, "Uppity, yeah."The ensuing media attention compelled Westmoreland to issue the following statement: "I've never heard that term used in a racially derogatory sense. It is important to note that the dictionary definition of 'uppity' is 'affecting an air of inflated self-esteem — snobbish.' That's what we meant by uppity when we used it in the mill village where I grew up."

Jingthing, while there is clearly an American connotation on the use of Uppity which may have racial overtones, I consider myself a pretty well travelled person, including long stints in the USA, and I have never heard of it, and no dictionary that I have researched has made any reference to it.

I think you are letting your feelings on this issue run away with you, and you should give the non Americans, who are writing about an Englishman in Thailand the benefit of the doubt as I am quite sure that no racial slur was intended.

If you can't do that, then you are indeed a bit uppity.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Mobi

[Sabum]

Uppity is definately racist, if you said it around a black American you would expect a fight. Just because its not used that way in the UK doesn't make it sound any less racist to a black American, you could quickly try to blurt out that you are just an ignorant Brit who doesnt really mean anything bad but that might take too long and you'll find yourself picking your teeth up off the floor.

[Jingthing]

Jingthing, while there is clearly an American connotation on the use of Uppity which may have racial overtones, I consider myself a pretty well travelled person, including long stints in the USA, and I have never heard of it, and no dictionary that I have researched has made any reference to it.

That was polite. We will have to agree to disagree.

However, on one point I can't let go without further comment: may have racist overtones. That is ridiculous. In context of talking about a black man outside of Africa, it DOES have racist overtones, no mays about it. If you didn't learn that in your travels in the US, it just didn't come up and/or you happily didn't encounter any overt racists, doesn't prove it isn't true.

Regarding the post proceeding, I agree. This is an international board of mostly Anglo speakers. If you told me something is offensive in Britspeak that I wasn't aware of, I would back off from its usage here UNLESS I really did intend to offend.

BTW: I AM uppity but a different flavor of uppity ...

Edited May 13, 2009 by Jingthing

[Mobi]

However, on one point I can't let go without further comment: may have racist overtones. That is ridiculous. In context of talking about a black man outside of Africa, it DOES have racist overtones, no mays about it. If you didn't learn that in your travels in the US, it just didn't come up and/or you happily didn't encounter any overt racists, doesn't prove it isn't true.

Regarding the post proceeding, I agree. This is an international board of mostly Anglo speakers. If you told me something is offensive in Britspeak that I wasn't aware of, I would back off from its usage here UNLESS I really did intend to offend.

BTW: I AM uppity but a different flavor of uppity ...

This not ridiculous - it is just plain rubbish.

I would not be so "in your face" as some other posters have done with their anti American language rants, but you are clearly applying your colloquial American to an international forum on which few of the participants are American and in which none of the people involved in the topic are American, and in which none of them have heard of this particular connotation - and which - please note, is not shown in any dictionary, including American ones.

You are imposing your interpretation on a world audience who is perfectly at liberty to use their own language as they see fit. If you consider the word racist - then that's your call, but don 't condemn others who have no knowledge of this and imply that they too are racist.

As for stating that you would not use words that had some words because they were offensive in the Queen's English (Britspeak!!!!!), then you must be be in danger of 'losing your marbles'. The English language is spoken in dozens, if not hundreds of countries, and if we were to check which words may offend some other nationality who had a different take on those words, then we would never write anything.

Let it go .... you are way out of line here.

[Jingthing]

an international forum on which few of the participants are American

I am sure that is wrong. I recall reading most hits here are from the USA.

Look, if you didn't know this already (HARD TO BELIEVE) we are telling you the use of the word uppity when applied to a BLACK MAN is offensive and racist, and yet you don't apologize for it, but defend it and want to continue using it. There are different levels of offensiveness, racist implications being rather high. Again, agree to disagree, I think your position is ARROGANT and insensitive. Enough said. This may be shocking to you, but Americans are not the only nationality capable of arrogance.

BTW, back to the context of the usage here:

...or just wants to get rid of the uppity bugger.

does that sound like a friendly comment to you?

Edited May 13, 2009 by Jingthing

[mahtin]

What does bugger mean in the US?

I've never been there.

[Jingthing]

What does bugger mean in the US?

I've never been there.

It is not a common usage word in the US but it is understood by many people the same as British usage. I use it but I am a bit of an Anglophile.

By the way, consider the numbers when you come to the faulty conclusion that US usage doesn't matter:

USA population: over 300 million

UK population: over 60 million

Australia population: over 20 million

Edited May 13, 2009 by Jingthing

[mahtin]

I use it but I am a bit of an Anglophile.

Not sure how to take that.

[Absingjul]

An insight into the Thai government official's mentality.

A) Suspect someone is a criminal because they have black skin

C) Even when proved wrong, never admit you're wrong. Keep the black man locked up for 21 days in appalling conditions with murderers and rapists.

He received better treatment than Christoph von Hohenlohe who was white as a snowflake.

[Jingthing]

I use it but I am a bit of an Anglophile.

Not sure how to take that.

I can't help you with that.

[mahtin]

I use it but I am a bit of an Anglophile.

Not sure how to take that.

I can't help you with that.

That's a relief

[JimmyConway]

By the way, consider the numbers when you come to the faulty conclusion that US usage doesn't matter:

USA population: over 300 million

UK population: over 60 million

Australia population: over 20 million

Over 240 million more 'uppity buggers' then us ;-)

[CFIT]

His flight has been paid for by an anonymous Thai benefactor who wants to demonstrate to the world that Thailand is a far more pleasant place than the Burrowes case has made it seem.

What a great person! Thanks for the gesture. Nobody is saying Thailand is all bad or all good, but don't expect Simon back here ... EVER.

Where was his return ticket? Did it expire because he was in jail?

I Beleve his ticket was Non trasferable So it would Expire along with his Visa

I did read he had 20,000 Baht Overstay fine to pay. Did he realy have to pay for Overstay ? OK I Know TIT

My mistake on the Sub headline. He is leaving tomorrow, Firday May 15 or will be trying to. Becasue his visa ran out , he wil have to jump throuh a few more hoops

He will have to go to the airport ,and then back to immigration on Phuket town , about a 40 minute drive and then back to the airport, according to Phuket Wan article.

So we'll see

I agree the "uppity....... " reference was racial, but so what, isn't someone allowed to be a racist pig as long as it isn't translated into action on hiring, et. ? All this P.C. is having an opposite effect, the racists are burrowing and multiplying

[dave111223]

an international forum on which few of the participants are American

I am sure that is wrong. I recall reading most hits here are from the USA.

Look, if you didn't know this already (HARD TO BELIEVE) we are telling you the use of the word uppity when applied to a BLACK MAN is offensive and racist, and yet you don't apologize for it, but defend it and want to continue using it. There are different levels of offensiveness, racist implications being rather high. Again, agree to disagree, I think your position is ARROGANT and insensitive. Enough said. This may be shocking to you, but Americans are not the only nationality capable of arrogance.

BTW, back to the context of the usage here:

...or just wants to get rid of the uppity bugger.

does that sound like a friendly comment to you?

It's so funny that you are calling other people arrogant...lol

Here's the situation:

- You say a word is offensive in a certain sourthern American vernacular

- Many other people have told you that it's actually not offensive in England and other parts of the world.

- Yet you are still insisting that everyone adhere to your local interpretation of the word?

What is that if it's not arrogant?

What will be next you demanding we all start calling Jam as Jelly, and plasters as band-aids? And he wasn't in jail he was in a Hooscow?

[BigSnake]

Good, Mr Burrowes has done his little hard time in the slammer, now just deport the FOUL mouth Rascal

[johna]

What does bugger mean in the US?

I've never been there.

It is not a common usage word in the US but it is understood by many people the same as British usage. I use it but I am a bit of an Anglophile.

By the way, consider the numbers when you come to the faulty conclusion that US usage doesn't matter:

USA population: over 300 million

UK population: over 60 million

Australia population: over 20 million

How many of that 300 mil speak English, Spanish is the first language in Florida and I suspect English is a second language in California.

[Briggsy]

An insight into the Thai government official's mentality.

A) Suspect someone is a criminal because they have black skin

C) Even when proved wrong, never admit you're wrong. Keep the black man locked up for 21 days in appalling conditions with murderers and rapists.

He received better treatment than Christoph von Hohenlohe who was white as a snowflake.

Hohenlohe used a biro to alter thus forge the permitted to stay until date in his passport. A naive, stupid and petty thing to do. It was also criminal. Thus he was caught red-handed committing a criminal act. He was not 'pulled' at immigration because he was white. Thus your comparison here is somewhat irrelevant. His punishment leading to his death was utterly disproportionate to his crime.

Burrowes, on the other hand. was totally innocent but was pulled, accused and held in prison for far longer than was necessary because he was black.

Skin colour is so important to Thais. It is heavily but not exclusively used to define social status.

[Mobi]

What does bugger mean in the US?

I've never been there.

It is not a common usage word in the US but it is understood by many people the same as British usage. I use it but I am a bit of an Anglophile.

By the way, consider the numbers when you come to the faulty conclusion that US usage doesn't matter:

USA population: over 300 million

UK population: over 60 million

Australia population: over 20 million

There are 1.2 Billion English speakers in the world, of whom 312 Million use it as a first language and 812 million use it as an additional language. In addition to this there are 168 million non- native speakers of English in the EU.

So we have over a billion speakers of English throughout the world.

I wonder what percentage of the billion would understand 'uppity', when applied to a black man to be a racist slur??

I have no way of disputing your assertion that a majority of people contributing to Thai Visa are American, but it seems like total rubbish to me. Americans are in the minority as an expat nationality in Thailand, and as Thai Visa in an English language forum, it is odds on that a majority of contributors, including all those Europeans who use English as their second language are non American.

Jingthing, you are the arch typical arrogant American who insists that that language, culture and just about everything else starts and ends in America. I was watching an An American TV programme last night, when a well known celebrity thought that Europe was a country, didn't think that France was a country, and had never heard of Hungary or Budapest. But when assured that Hungary was a country, said: "Well I have heard of Turkey" So many of you folk are so uneducated and insular, and your personal insistence that we accept your American interpretation on language is mind boggling. I have worked with Americans in many countries, and one thing has always sets them apart from other nationalities is their insistence on pronouncing local languages with an American accent, even though they hear the correct pronunciation every day. Nobody can understand them except fellow Americans, and yes, this especially applies to the Thai language. Must be something in your psyche that refuses to admit that there are other people who matter in this world with different opinions, culture etc. , and is undoubtedly one of the causes of the international mess you find yourselves in today.

Have a long hard look at yourself and get off your high horse - you are far too uppity for a resident of sin city.

[grantbkk]

Mr. Burrowes did have a great vacation before his little incident at the airport. Hopefully he learned from his mistakes and will use normal precautions when traveling internationally.

I would also hope that all the publicity would wake up someone at the British Embassy. The well deserved negative press could have been avoided if a salaried employee spent an extra five minutes investigating the case instead of heading off to a pub full of women (or men) to begin the weekend.

[Mobi]

Grantbkk, good post.

[sriracha john]

Burrowes, on the other hand. was totally innocent but was pulled, accused and held in prison for far longer than was necessary because he was black.

Didn't his highly suspect passport photo have something to do with his being pulled aside and questioned?

[Jingthing]

- You say a word is offensive in a certain sourthern American vernacular

No, you've got that wrong. It is understood as offensive generally in the US, not just regionally, and it is associated with racism against black people. This is of course especially true when the word is used when referring to black people. Perhaps also in Canada, but I am not sure.

As far the USA hits, most of the users of this board do not post, and are not expats. I just remember reading most of the hits are USA origin but I can't be bothered to research that, and of course those stats would change over time. Its not exactly impossible considering this is an English language board, most users not living here, and the huge population and relative wealth of the US. I am not contesting that among the actual expat population, American numbers are not huge.

As far as Mobi's comments about general geographical ignorance in the US, I can agree with him about that, but of course we have many educated people as well. Also, the stereotype that we are generally poor at foreign languages is also correct. However we are not talking about foreign languages here, we are talking about English. Cheers.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Jingthing