Thailand - Tourism Disaster?

[bkkjames]

Hobbler

Why state the obvious? If the thread is "rubbish" why contribute

It raises some valid points.

Of course there's a global downturn, it's low season and tourist numbers are down across the board. But we're not only talking about the here and now are we?

What does the future hold? Do you really think that 5* hotels are that much better or cheaper in LOS as opposed to other countries? Have you checked the rack rates recently! Beaches better? Culture unique?

That's the same kind of naive form of arrogance that's got the Thai tourism industry into a deep pile of doo-dah!

If you're sitting at home in Australia, Europe or America and wanted to take the wife and 2.2 kids somewhere "exotic" would you really pick Thailand when there are so many other destinations in the world?

I think not...

RAZZ

Right now you wouldnt due to what has happend recently around the world, but I believe most of the tourists are here for the nightlife, there are far more party animals here then familes.

If the world recovers soon and the baht is more resonable, Thailand will always be a popular tourist destination and will be for years to come. Not even the Tsunami really effected Thailand to what everyone predicted.

And when alot of people think of an exotic holiday destination, Thailand will come to mind offen.

The only thing that will stop Thailand is,

- The baht staying High

- North Korea drops a bomb Thailand

RE the Tsunami - only the Koreans and a few other North Asian countries were afraid of the Ghosts. The Tsunami was a one off freak event. Don't see why people would stop vacationing in a place because of it. Only the areas directly affected were hurt bad. The country saw a surge in visitor traffic (empathy) in the months following the event.

RE party animals more prev than families, hmm step outside of lower sukhumvit, pattaya and ko phan gan (SBK's place) and look around. All those 5 star resorts aren't full of party animals. Right now they arent full of anyone.

The things that will continue to hurt Thailand are;

-politcal and economic instability - constant policy changes

-stong baht

-a take it for granted attitude towards travellers and expats

[tartempion]

And suppose there is no work for some, they would live at their homes with their families and they would manage to have all they need and be happy simultaneously. Remember sanuk?? Maybe not...

Sure, ask my gf how life was between 0 and 20 years old:

Sent to work as of 14 Years old (joining her older sister, later to be followed by a jounger sister) to other places to give ALL she made to the parents to improve their lifestyle: a house to begin with, pay off debts on the land etc. etc.

Ask her again what nice childhood she had

[ilovefashionTV]

It isnt the one incident that bothers me, but more the growing hatred towards us farang from a significant section of Thais in tourist resorts.

English people would be a lot more respectful to Thais coming to England then what exists the other way round.

Well in the touristy area's the problem is the drunk holigans who get drunk and abuse the Thai people, after taking it for awhile they will start to feel abit of hatred IMO, but I only think this would effect a small number of Thai's.

If Thai's were well known for coming to England and being abusive to the english people, I dont think the response would be a positive one either.

Look what happened in Australia, Cronulla had a few lebanese people abusing the aussies and then there was a full on riot. With what I have seen in Thailand, im suprised alot of Thai's have not caused a riot against farangs. But this is just my opinion of what I have witnessed.

Well as i rarely drink im not one of the drunken hooligans, and in my 10 yrs of coming here have never seen English people being aggressive to Thais (theyd get lynched by the mob).

PS I dont care what happens in 2nd Division England (aka Oz)

Edited June 2, 2009 by ilovefashionTV

[livinthailandos]

I figured I would put my input for comments i've seen Increasing bad press for Thailand internationally. (Depends on how much and how often bad press in shown on TV like BBC, CNN, and local stations abroad)

The political crisis is far from over. (Agreed on this point but until actions start to pick up to the effect of massive protesting or another airport closure I'll go by the day)

Increasing censorship of the media and free speech. (I might agree on this point the day thailand has a china firewall and there aren't any english newspapers or any readable material that makes people think. The day thailand is as oppressed as north korea or burma is the day I won't be here at all anymore)

Thailand has had political unrest and negative international media for decades. AGREED

Thailand's tourist numbers will always be unpredictable as we have seen in the past. AGREED

Most of us who have become accustomed to luxuries don't want to give them up and will make excuses why we shouldn't. People all over the world have access to the internet and they SEE what others have, and only naturally want the same. Nobody wants to go backwards, and to think anybody would do so willingly is foolish. AGREED

Most of us understand that tourist facilities expansion was happening too quickly in Thailand and eventually the bubble would burst. Well, it has burst and it will take a while to recover.

ADD A POINT ON THIS, Regardless of industry or country people should realize everywhere there has been bubbles that come and go.

ANOTHER POINT TO CONSIDER: My understanding was besides a booming times another fact to point out is that low cost airlines also added in making travel more accessible and affordable

What I know

1. Usually June, July is low season

2. During good times people spend times like now people change habits

3. So far this year what I have seen is people downgrading or going cheaper. If you don't believe me most 5 star hotels are running less than 30% and there offering discounts up to 40% if you willing to look

4. Most people don't know is we work with big name agencies we lowered prices after all if you realize at least this year and into next year its still gonna be slow. When you have lots of employees you pay. you have to make do with what business you can get just make sure your not losing money in the process.

5. People are still traveling just not as long or as much. People are looking for bargin deals.

6. Even with the Swine Flu I still see tourists

7. Asian countries I have noticed are more sensitive to political problems, when anything comes up its a good bet they will cancel

8. 6 months on the company I am with we are still doing fine have had, still have occupancy more than 50% .Next month still have 50% occupancy.

just because things are bad doesn't mean that there aren't any companies still making money right now

[RAZZELL]

but I believe most of the tourists are here for the nightlife, there are far more party animals here then familes.

Well, I think you're mistaken.

The vast majority of tourists are couples, families or retirees. If I could be arsed to look-up the demographics I think they'd prove me right

RAZZ

Edited June 2, 2009 by RAZZELL

[Samuian]

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.... is the rice price related to tourism?

They have problems with exports of these very, very important commodities as well...

High airline ticket prices?

but the value of the Baht maybe?

the weakness of Euro, US$ and Pound?

Uncertainty, would one rather lose his property, housing and go on holidays instead?

Idon't think so, there are some rather pressing issues here, not for the normal, traveler, but

for the package - normal income earner bunch!

And of course some bad, bad mishandling befor hand, when things were still in full swing..

it will pass...!

but first harvest time - time to understand, reflect and maybe learn a lesson!

[Oberkommando]

Right now you wouldnt due to what has happend recently around the world, but I believe most of the tourists are here for the nightlife, there are far more party animals here then familes.

You of course mean the prostitutes.

Calling it night-life is cute but ultimately misleading.

[Abrak]

I think Livinginlos makes a very good point. To the extent prices have gone up a lot it is only because hotels could get away with charging them and remain full. They have had some very good times over the last few years. They can probably cut prices 30%+ and as long as they get the occupancy, they will remain profitable and if they have to take a couple of years of losses so be it.

My GF argue it is a cyclical phenomenon. While I think tourists are getting bored of Thailand she argues there are always new ones - 'how come 30m people go to Spain each year?' (Her stat not mine, she dreams up stats) And also thinks the politics is a much bigger external factor than it is internally. She could be right - after the Bali bombing incident tourist arrivals were down something like 40%.

[jupiler]

Tourism is like fashion, its come's and it go's.

For years in Europe, people went on holiday to Spain, France. Now alot of those people go to Turkey.

The last decade Thailand whas a hype. Now many travellers want to explore other regions.

Combined with higher prices,strong Bath,polutted beaches, trafficjams, worldwide crisis, airport closure etc...

[geriatrickid]

Perhaps but it's all relative. The world is a nastier place today. Melbourne's Indian students are upset because they are being targeted for muggings and there is local hostility. Does that mean all of australia is xenophobic or evil? Don't think so.

English workers are targeting Polish and Romanian workers that moved to England to do the jobs the English couldn't or wouldn't. Now that the recession hits, the English slobs have to blame someone.

There are many reasons for the decline. Unless you are willing to think on multiple levels, you will not reach the answer. The downturn is not only due to the airport event. It goes much deeper:

1) Xenophobia has increased dramatically in the country (seemed to start with TOXIN) Seemed,? Or is this just another way of making a stab into Thaksin's back under the guise of farang cncern for Thailand?

2) The xenophobia was linked to anti-foreigner visa/business rules, making Thailand less than desirable as an expat retirement country and tourist destination Try getting similar treatment in other countries. Japan is visa barrier land. The USA is hardly welcoming and Canada is the place where Tamil Tigers and other terrorists are welcomed. Thailand is still far more accomodating than many western nations.

3) The Dept. of Tourism decided to do something incredibly stupid: tell the world they only want quality (high income) tourists....tourists that typically make up only a small fraction of any tourism industry. Countries with thriving tourism industries (e.g., Bali) want all tourists....low income, middle income, and high income. Middle income? They are welcome. What Thailand did was respond to foreigner and citizen complaints about the cheapies and the perverts that think Thailand deserves better. I'm not losing sleep when the junketeers divert to Greece where they can puke on the streets to their hearts' content. You want Bali, then go. The place is filthier than Thailand, way overdeveloped, deforested, filled with touts that are just as nasty as the Thai version except they don't smile, crowded and the place where things can and do go boom. It's also where a foreigner that runs afoul of the law is more likely to end up on death row (compared to thailand). Despite Thailand's southern troubles tourists have never been targeted. They have been in Bali.

4) The govt. has done nothing to address massive income inequality.......rich have gotten much richer at the expense of the masses causing internal instability (reds vs yellows......soon more colors will follow) Right. And the western bailouts of the financial community benefited who? Certainly not the poor. The people that caused the mess in the west continue on with their smug arrogance.

5) Major tourists destinations like Pattaya-Jomtien engaged in terrible city planning........thinking, I suppose, that if they ran off the lower to middle income tourists Pattaya-Jomtien would morph into Monaco......that has caused serious problems in Pattaya-Jomtien (e.g., increase in crime, loss of income/jobs, etc). Get over it. Every city has a right to limit the number of cheap bars catering to pervs. So what if a couple brothels and hooker havens shut down?

6) Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, and the Philippines have taken advantage of Thailand's never-ending mistakes (compare the visa process in Cambodia to Thailand and you will see what I mean, to take just one example).

Cambodia? land of the despots where mass murderers still walk around untouched by justice. The khmer rouge have gone from political zealots to organized crime. Try doing business in Cambodia. It makes Thailand seem pristine and pure. Vietnam? Sure it has its advantages but if you are upset about the city planning in Pattaya, how can you praise Vietnam where it's the government way or no way and where foreign tourists are "watched". The Phillipines?Yea right. It's the armpit of SE Asia.To go 500m from my hotel in Makati to the office, I went in an armored car with 2 armed guards. On Bangla Rd. I just dodge cheap drunken louts. OK, so Thailand is suffering now. So is everyone else. It's all relative. Live in some of the countries you cite and then you'll understand that while Thailand has its problems it isn't that bad.

Canada expects a 50% drop off in US tourists because of the new US requirements that all US citizens have a passport to get back into the USA. Don't need a passport for most ASEA travel do they? We can sit and complain till the water buffalos come home. How about coming up with something constructive that takes into account the realities of a world in financial crisis and where religious nuts send the mentally infirm and children with bombs into crowds. Put it into the context of airline travel that's expensive and a hassle. Tie it up with a bow made from the fears of the world's workers fretting whether or not they will still have a job.

[Abrak]

Perhaps but it's all relative. The world is a nastier place today. Melbourne's Indian students are upset because they are being targeted for muggings and there is local hostility. Does that mean all of australia is xenophobic or evil? Don't think so.

English workers are targeting Polish and Romanian workers that moved to England to do the jobs the English couldn't or wouldn't. Now that the recession hits, the English slobs have to blame someone.

Absolutely. It is sad but inevitable. When things get tough the Thais will blame the farang and the farang will claim that it is the fault of the Thai (if only because he has changed his attitude.) All just makes for a less healthy environment but one that I suspect is better than anywhere else.

Looking on the TAT's website they have some rather dodgy looking figures for tourist arrivals at the main Bangkok airport going back 10 years. For the first 4 months arrivals are down 30.8% to the lowest record in their ten year history. Rather worryingly the numbers go up to the 20th of May and if you average this out for the month, then may is down 42.4% on may last year which would imply things are getting worse not better which you would expect as the airport closure fades from memory.

[bonobo]

 

Cambodia? land of the despots where mass murderers still walk around untouched by justice. The khmer rouge have gone from political zealots to organized crime. Try doing business in Cambodia. It makes Thailand seem pristine and pure. Vietnam? Sure it has its advantages but if you are upset about the city planning in Pattaya, how can you praise Vietnam where it's the government way or no way and where foreign tourists are "watched". The Phillipines?Yea right. It's the armpit of SE Asia.To go 500m from my hotel in Makati to the office, I went in an armored car with 2 armed guards. On Bangla Rd. I just dodge cheap drunken louts. OK, so Thailand is suffering now. So is everyone else. It's all relative. Live in some of the countries you cite and then you'll understand that while Thailand has its problems it isn't that bad.

What you write certainly has soem truth to ti, but the difference is that Thailand is seemingly going backwards and the otehrs are going forwards.

Cambodia has made some huge strides in attracting tourists over the last year or so, Khmer Rouge or no.  Even SR 21, the school-turned death house, has grown from a measly few empty rooms and some photos to a reasonable tourist destiantion, albeit a sobering one.  Hotels are nicer, and there are many, many more families and tour groups.  In my hotel on my last trip, I had a single American woman of about 50 enjoying her stay, and at a neighbor hotel was a grop of about 12 eldery folk on a Cambodia bike tour.  

And the Philippines is making great strides forward.  I am not naysaying you, but it is getting better.  And while not tourist oriented, Vietnam is still getting stronger with regards to foreign direct investment.

My point is that while Thailand is still the major destination in SE Asia, any gain by Cambodia, Malaysia, the Philippines, or Indonesia is probably a loss for Thailand.

[Abrak]

My point is that while Thailand is still the major destination in SE Asia, any gain by Cambodia, Malaysia, the Philippines, or Indonesia is probably a loss for Thailand.

Yes I suspect this is in our instincts. Our attraction for variety is well known when it comes to women - the Coolidge Effect - but I suspect the same sort of instinct applies to new places, new restaurants etc....

[Spee]

The problem lies with foreigners who don't understand what we know, and they are negatively influenced by bad press reports. The bad world economy just ascerbates the problem.

To most of the world's population, (people who are not members of this or similar Thai oriented boards + certain % of former visitors) Thailand is not much different to, say, Tanzania. One bad word and they cross it off of their list.

I agree with this sentiment.

I would suggest further that last year's airport siezure, takeover and indefinite period of closure has had and will continue to have a far greater impact than people realize. Prices going up a bit is one thing. The occasional tourist scam, pickpocket or robbery is another thing. These things can and do happen just about anywhere. But what could be called (for all intents and purposes) government sanctioned takeover of the only way into and out of the country for tourists, has produced a scar on the tourist industry that will last for many years to come.

If I were asked to choose one and only one thing that has had the worst effect on the tourist industry, this would be the one. The political instability is a related and close second. Everything else is a distant runner-up.

On a personal note, my girl and I are planning our wedding for later this year. Some of my family members are expressing hesitancy about coming over for the festivities precisely for these two reasons. They had no such hesitancy prior to then.

[RAZZELL]

I would suggest further that last year's airport siezure, takeover and indefinite period of closure has had and will continue to have a far greater impact than people realize. Prices going up a bit is one thing. The occasional tourist scam, pickpocket or robbery is another thing. These things can and do happen just about anywhere. But what could be called (for all intents and purposes) government sanctioned takeover of the only way into and out of the country for tourists, has produced a scar on the tourist industry that will last for many years to come.

If I were asked to choose one and only one thing that has had the worst effect on the tourist industry, this would be the one. The political instability is a related and close second. Everything else is a distant runner-up.

Totally agree.

I don't think tanks on the street look to clever either!

RAZZ

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I think it is good to remember that "Life doesn't have to be perfect to be wonderful". That came from a severely handicapped lady, sorry I don't recall her name.

[stevoo]

i stayed at the pattaya flipper lodge hotel christmas/new year and the constant discussion around the pool was " were else is there, cambodia phillies vietnam", the reasons given was the general disinterest from girls in the bar and increasing prices

a couple of weeks ago in the uk some guy said there wifes brother was thinking about travelling around thailand, i said he will enjoy it but be careful if using jet skis, dont argue with thais, watch for overcharging, stick to the tourist areas at night etc etc. I was then asked "tell us again why you go to thailand". on reflection my friendly advice made it kinda sound like a bad place, or perhaps it told its own story of a tourist in los.

Edited June 2, 2009 by stevoo

[jumnien]

i stayed at the pattaya flipper lodge hotel christmas/new year and the constant discussion around the pool was " were else is there, cambodia phillies vietnam", the reasons given was the general disinterest from girls in the bar and increasing prices

a couple of weeks ago in the uk some guy said there wifes brother was thinking about travelling around thailand, i said he will enjoy it but be careful if using jet skis, dont argue with thais, watch for overcharging, stick to the tourist areas at night etc etc. I was then asked "tell us again why you go to thailand". on reflection my friendly advice made it kinda sound like a bad place, or perhaps it told its own story of a tourist in los.

This post pretty much sums up this whole thread. As long as tourists come to Thailand and sit around the pool and complain about how dissatisfied they are, the tourist industry will survive. There is an old Monty Python skit about British tourists in Torremolena complaining about the "food's too greasy" and it's hilarious and now 30 years later these very same tourists are complaining in Thailand.

[Birdman]

I would suggest further that last year's airport siezure, takeover and indefinite period of closure has had and will continue to have a far greater impact than people realize. Prices going up a bit is one thing. The occasional tourist scam, pickpocket or robbery is another thing. These things can and do happen just about anywhere. But what could be called (for all intents and purposes) government sanctioned takeover of the only way into and out of the country for tourists, has produced a scar on the tourist industry that will last for many years to come.

If I were asked to choose one and only one thing that has had the worst effect on the tourist industry, this would be the one. The political instability is a related and close second. Everything else is a distant runner-up.

Exactly. Especially for potential new comers. A huge percentage of tourists since the airport closure are repeaters.

[bonobo]

My point is that while Thailand is still the major destination in SE Asia, any gain by Cambodia, Malaysia, the Philippines, or Indonesia is probably a loss for Thailand.

Yes I suspect this is in our instincts. Our attraction for variety is well known when it comes to women - the Coolidge Effect - but I suspect the same sort of instinct applies to new places, new restaurants etc....

Yes, you are right.

I have a friend in the US military who has had four tours in Iraq, so he is not too put off by riots and the like.  And he loves Thailand.  But his last two trips to the region were to Cambodia and the Philippines.  His next one will be back here to Thailand, but the desire to see new venues can lead people to try other places.

As an aside, he is now considering retiring to Cambodia vice Thailand because he can legally open up his own brokerage company there while he can't in Thailand without finding Thai partners.  

[anon789]

Try getting similar treatment in other countries. Japan is visa barrier land. The USA is hardly welcoming and Canada is the place where Tamil Tigers and other terrorists are welcomed. Thailand is still far more accomodating than many western nations.

Is Thailand really "far more accomodating than many western nations" when it comes to visa-laws? Is this true? I am from Scandinavia. Let's say I wanted to spend my retirement in the US or Australia or any other Western country. Or if I hailed from the US and wanted to retire to Europe? And let's also say I had a generous pension and money in the bank (not millions!). Would the visa-laws be strickter for me there than if I wanted to retire to Thailand instead???

And what if I was a Thai with the same good pension and money in the bank as the Scandinavian or American in the example above: could I then retire to the West - or would I be treated like a potential asylum seeker and/or economic refugee out to leech money from the Welfare State?

In Scandinavia I think it's quite easy to get a 6-month-visa if you qualify economically no matter which country in the World you hail from (you have to prove you have enough money for your stay here). After the 6 months are up I don't really know what the rules are - I don't know if an extension is possible.

As for what the laws are like in the US, Australia or Europe, I don't know. Do any of you guys know? Is it true that Thailand is more accomodating visa-wise than the West?

Edited June 3, 2009 by anon789

[bonobo]

Try getting similar treatment in other countries. Japan is visa barrier land. The USA is hardly welcoming and Canada is the place where Tamil Tigers and other terrorists are welcomed. Thailand is still far more accomodating than many western nations.

Is Thailand really "far more accomodating than many western nations" when it comes to visa-laws? Is this true? I am from Scandinavia. Let's say I wanted to spend my retirement in the US or Australia or any other Western country. Or if I hailed from the US and wanted to retire to Europe? And let's also say I had a generous pension and money in the bank (not millions!). Would the visa-laws be strickter for me there than if I wanted to retire to Thailand instead???

And what if I was a Thai with the same good pension and money in the bank as the Scandinavian or American in the example above: could I then retire to the West - or would I be treated like a potential asylum seeker and/or economic refugee out to leech money from the Welfare State?

In Scandinavia I think it's quite easy to get a 6-month-visa if you qualify economically no matter which country in the World you hail from (you have to prove you have enough money for your stay here). After the 6 months are up I don't really know what the rules are - I don't know if an extension is possible.

As for what the laws are like in the US, Australia or Europe, I don't know. Do any of you guys know? Is it true that Thailand is more accomodating visa-wise than the West?

As a vast generality, Thailand is more accommodating than most western nations for the casual tourist visa.  But for longer term, for residency, for having the same rights as native born citizens, or for even gaining citizenship, Thailand in not so accommodating.

[howardjarvis]

Try getting similar treatment in other countries. Japan is visa barrier land. The USA is hardly welcoming and Canada is the place where Tamil Tigers and other terrorists are welcomed. Thailand is still far more accomodating than many western nations.

Is Thailand really "far more accomodating than many western nations" when it comes to visa-laws? Is this true? I am from Scandinavia. Let's say I wanted to spend my retirement in the US or Australia or any other Western country. Or if I hailed from the US and wanted to retire to Europe? And let's also say I had a generous pension and money in the bank (not millions!). Would the visa-laws be strickter for me there than if I wanted to retire to Thailand instead???

And what if I was a Thai with the same good pension and money in the bank as the Scandinavian or American in the example above: could I then retire to the West - or would I be treated like a potential asylum seeker and/or economic refugee out to leech money from the Welfare State?

In Scandinavia I think it's quite easy to get a 6-month-visa if you qualify economically no matter which country in the World you hail from (you have to prove you have enough money for your stay here). After the 6 months are up I don't really know what the rules are - I don't know if an extension is possible.

As for what the laws are like in the US, Australia or Europe, I don't know. Do any of you guys know? Is it true that Thailand is more accomodating visa-wise than the West?

As a vast generality, Thailand is more accommodating than most western nations for the casual tourist visa. But for longer term, for residency, for having the same rights as native born citizens, or for even gaining citizenship, Thailand in not so accommodating.

who want to be a citizen of thailand.......... . assuming one is from usa or similiar.

los has very little to offer other than great nightlife.

and at the moment this aint happening. popular bars with tons of girls and very few customaas.

Edited June 3, 2009 by howardjarvis

[beechguy]

My point is that while Thailand is still the major destination in SE Asia, any gain by Cambodia, Malaysia, the Philippines, or Indonesia is probably a loss for Thailand.

Yes I suspect this is in our instincts. Our attraction for variety is well known when it comes to women - the Coolidge Effect - but I suspect the same sort of instinct applies to new places, new restaurants etc....

Yes, you are right.

I have a friend in the US military who has had four tours in Iraq, so he is not too put off by riots and the like. And he loves Thailand. But his last two trips to the region were to Cambodia and the Philippines. His next one will be back here to Thailand, but the desire to see new venues can lead people to try other places.

As an aside, he is now considering retiring to Cambodia vice Thailand because he can legally open up his own brokerage company there while he can't in Thailand without finding Thai partners.

Just curious if your friend is aware of U.S. Treaty of Amity type companies, and if that would suit his purposes. He could own it pretty much %100.

[Birdman]

who want to be a citizen of thailand.......... . assuming one is from usa or similiar.

los has very little to offer other than great nightlife.

and at the moment this aint happening. popular bars with tons of girls and very few customaas.

Try the national museum in BKK.

[howardjarvis]

who want to be a citizen of thailand.......... . assuming one is from usa or similiar.

los has very little to offer other than great nightlife.

and at the moment this aint happening. popular bars with tons of girls and very few customaas.

Try the national museum in BKK.

i aint here for culture .

when was the last time a major news network did a piece on bkk museum?

Edited June 3, 2009 by howardjarvis

[bonobo]

Just curious if your friend is aware of U.S. Treaty of Amity type companies, and if that would suit his purposes. He could own it pretty much %100.

Heck, I don't know about it myself.  Anyway I will e-mail your comment to him.  Thanks.

[bonobo]

who want to be a citizen of thailand.......... . assuming one is from usa or similiar.

los has very little to offer other than great nightlife.

and at the moment this aint happening. popular bars with tons of girls and very few customaas.

Try the national museum in BKK.

i aint here for culture .

when was the last time a major news network did a piece on bkk museum?

Maybe not the museum (at least that I ahve seen), but they have done pieces on temples, beaches, food, and eco-tourism.

[cpofc]

An interesting topic. I may as well give my two bobs worth.

So many factors involved here. So many dynamics. Of course there are two distinct ways of looking at things. From a dedicated tourist's perspective or those of an Ex Pat. Both are quite different and require two answers.

From a potential newbie tourist's point of view? There is little doubt in my mind that the lack of tourists is attributable to the world financial situation, the political mess, the odd coup, the infamous airport closure and the world media deliberately focusing in on every drop of blood spilt in the latest confrontation with the Red Shirts. Then throw in the continued problems down south - The recent brutal 'execution' of the two young female teachers, one of whom was pregnant, doesn't do much for a potential visitors confidence either. Speaking as an Australian, Thailand has suffered some very heavy PR blows down there over recent months, deserved or not. People are building a very negative picture of Thailand in their minds. I communicate daily with many people down there and I know what their feelings are. When taksin was tossed out, my 80 YO mother rang me from Australia at 2 in the morning (Aust time) wanting to know if there were tanks rumbling up and down my Soi. And she has visited the LOS many times before. Tourists are an insecure lot normally and they don't need much to turn them off.

Not only is tourist traffic down but an insider tells me Dusit International occupancy rates are down to 30-40%. Dusit cater predominantly for corporate and business travel. Normally, even at this period of the Low, Low season they would still be at 90% at least.

Now the latest swine flu pandemic has delivered the coup d gras. Anyone who was here during the SARS crisis will tell you what the Kingdom was like then. There was noone here, except us hard core old bastards.

As from the Ex Pats point of view, well that's a different story. Times are getting tough in the Kingdom. Any student of 20th Century History will tell you that tough economic times leads to people looking for someone else to blame, and the best people to put the blame on are those who are of a different race.

There IS/HAS been a collective mood change in Thailand, at least from where i sit. As a 'one out' farang living in a typical bangkok outer suburban Soi, a few doors up from my Thai family of almost 30 years, I KNOW there is a mood change. The Thais are stressing out. Times are tough. There is friction even between themseleves.

The TAT need to get off their collective <deleted> and be more pro active. What happened to the worlwide 'Sorry' Campaign they were going to run after the airport fiasco? They are still using the tired, 10 year old 'Amazing Thailand' theme. The have rested on their laurels to long. The tourist market is becoming more competative and Thailand is no longer getting it all its own way, virtually by default. Prices are rising rapidly - A quick visit to Kanchanaburi recently found that bars were charging Pattaya Johhny Red Prices for a 100 Pipers and Soda!! 90 Baht! Are they kidding? They were 50 Baht not much more than a year ago. The Thai mentality of raising prices in hard times instead of discounting and going for volume and turnover is not doing them any favours.

[mommysboy]

I don't think the decline of tourists is good though I do like having room to walk on Sukhumwit. It's bad because it will increase crime and negative feelings towards Farangs even though it's not our fault Thailand has shot itself in the foot repeatedly then moved on to shot itself in the hands and maybe now even head. I posted on another thread I feel quite safe in Bangkok which is true however I don't feel safe at all in Phuket and would seriously question taking a holiday there vs. another safer destination. I do find many friendly and good matured Thai's but they are offset by a lot of aggressive arrogant and possibly dangerous touts harassing and exploiting tourists to an increasing degree. Think about it would you honestly let your old mother walk down most streets in Thailand?

I fully agree with this posting.

It's a shame it's come to this.