Immigration Crackdown On Border Runners

[venturalaw]

Interestingly enough, and as an experienced Bangkok expat that socialises frequently, I know of no expats that are doing perennial 15-day border runs.

Conversely, I have met several tourists recently that travel throughout the region extensively overland, and it is these people who it will affect, having experienced their annoyance and problems first hand before when they introduced a limit on the 30-day entry stamps.

The lunatics are running the asylum folks, and these are rich, out-of-touch lunatics that despise foreigners and care not if the tourism industry is crippled beyond repair, because let's face it, that's the way it looks to be going.

Absolutely correct.

[humfurry]

Interestingly enough, and as an experienced Bangkok expat that socialises frequently, I know of no expats that are doing perennial 15-day border runs.

Conversely, I have met several tourists recently that travel throughout the region extensively overland, and it is these people who it will affect, having experienced their annoyance and problems first hand before when they introduced a limit on the 30-day entry stamps.

The lunatics are running the asylum folks, and these are rich, out-of-touch lunatics that despise foreigners and care not if the tourism industry is crippled beyond repair, because let's face it, that's the way it looks to be going.

Absolutely correct.

Ditto!

[ukrules]

You are right there my friend. I mean if a tourist can not afford to get a visa before his trip in his home coutry or does not have funds to extend his stay here with tourist of non-imm visas.

It's not about affording it, I really don't appreciate the inconvenience of having to get a visa, sending my passport off, etc. Of course I do get visas when I really want to go to specific country that requires them, however in the past I have often avoided countries altogether, especially for short trips as I couldn't be bothered to go and get photographs made, fill out the forms and then pay the entrance fee just to get a visa for a trip that might only last a few days, it's a lot less hassle to just go somewhere else. I have avoided Vietnam completely and have only been to mainland China twice in the past (on a double entry visa) due to this hassle.

As far as I can see it they should make it easy for me or I'll go elsewhere, I think of it as a form of customer service.

For Thailand I have the one year visa at the moment but I mainly live in England, I might renew it when it runs out or maybe I'll just fly in for less than thirty days next time I go instead of the more normal sixty to seventy day trips I have been doing recently, it doesn't make much difference to me either way. What's easier ?

[inthepink]

I think the comments being posted about how stupid the Thai government is for making it more difficult for tourists to visit, when they are in an economic downturn, is absolute hogwash. Most ordinary tourists would fly into the country anyway, and would be very unlikely to be staying for more than a couple of weeks. The sort of tourists that might be planning a trip involving leaving and entering Thailand by land borders more than four times are not the sort of tourists that will be staying in 5-star hotels and splashing the cash.

I'm not saying that backpackers are less worthy, but they are basically the only sort of genuine tourist who will be affected by these regulations, in my opinion.

[humfurry]

You are right there my friend. I mean if a tourist can not afford to get a visa before his trip in his home coutry or does not have funds to extend his stay here with tourist of non-imm visas.

It's not about affording it, I really don't appreciate the inconvenience of having to get a visa, sending my passport off, etc. Of course I do get visas when I really want to go to specific country that requires them, however in the past I have often avoided countries altogether, especially for short trips as I couldn't be bothered to go and get photographs made, fill out the forms and then pay the entrance fee just to get a visa for a trip that might only last a few days, it's a lot less hassle to just go somewhere else. I have avoided Vietnam completely and have only been to mainland China twice in the past (on a double entry visa) due to this hassle.

As far as I can see it they should make it easy for me or I'll go elsewhere, I think of it as a form of customer service.

For Thailand I have the one year visa at the moment but I mainly live in England, I might renew it when it runs out or maybe I'll just fly in for less than thirty days next time I go instead of the more normal sixty to seventy day trips I have been doing recently, it doesn't make much difference to me either way. What's easier ?

Well said young man!

[kevinc]

I reckon its easier to get out of Guantanamo Bay than it is to stay in Thailand now, No wonder everyones going elsewhere, In a way i understand that about immigration but times change and many people, (my mates) are going to Sihhanoukville in Cambodia, (I mean my single mates) or Manilla. I feel sorry for the people who are in Thailand trying to run cafe's or small business's. I have to go to Blighty after 3x3 months in Thailand and i have been married to a Thai for ages. We are planning on leaving together as she is fed up with Thailand too, I have flown to Malaysia a few times for a 30 day visa but its getting on my nerves now. When you look up in the sky anywhere in Asia (or the world) its the same Sun!!

[venturalaw]

I think the comments being posted about how stupid the Thai government is for making it more difficult for tourists to visit, when they are in an economic downturn, is absolute hogwash. Most ordinary tourists would fly into the country anyway, and would be very unlikely to be staying for more than a couple of weeks. The sort of tourists that might be planning a trip involving leaving and entering Thailand by land borders more than four times are not the sort of tourists that will be staying in 5-star hotels and splashing the cash.

I'm not saying that backpackers are less worthy, but they are basically the only sort of genuine tourist who will be affected by these regulations, in my opinion.

What is the benefit in making it more difficult for ANY tourist? They all spend money, some little, some more. So why restrict? It's funny that people say the UK and US make it much more difficult for tourists - as if they are valid comparisons. Neither country relies upon tourism to the same degree as Thailand. It's as Oberkommando stated "The lunatics are running the asylum . . ."

[12DrinkMore]

I wouldn't be surprised to see border runs stopped altogether within the next 3 years or so. There's not much that long term expats can complain about though because it shouldn't be a problem for us anyway, they may need to re-asses how much it will affect tourists though.

Once the border runs have gone then they may start looking at restrictions on tourist visas. That'll be interesting.

Well I have been following this for ten years now, and there seems to be a constant ebb and flow, tightening, loosening, tightening, loosening. I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Also legit tourists need to do land border crossings. If you eliminated so called border runs you would kill Thailand as a tourist hub for some kinds of travelers, probably mostly backpackers. Bottom line, I think you are wrong.

They will hardly stop border traffic.

I guess that the perceived problem is the number of foreigners living here long term on border hops. This is easy to stop.

Any border entry including airports with no visa, 30 days allowed stay, no repeat and no extensions until after 30 days out of Thailand.

Tourist visa for three or six months. No repeat and no extensions in a year. No need to exit Thailand after three months.

This would stop immediately all the border hoppers, increase revenues for the consulates and embassies and reduce the carbon emissions from all the minibusses heading out of BKK, Pattaya and Phuket every day. Win win all around, except for maybe the tourists arrival statistics :D

[Moonrakers]

I wouldn't be surprised to see border runs stopped altogether within the next 3 years or so. There's not much that long term expats can complain about though because it shouldn't be a problem for us anyway, they may need to re-asses how much it will affect tourists though.

Once the border runs have gone then they may start looking at restrictions on tourist visas. That'll be interesting.

Well I have been following this for ten years now, and there seems to be a constant ebb and flow, tightening, loosening, tightening, loosening. I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Also legit tourists need to do land border crossings. If you eliminated so called border runs you would kill Thailand as a tourist hub for some kinds of travelers, probably mostly backpackers. Bottom line, I think you are wrong.

Having been here for 9 years myself, my first five of those years I was almost entirely on monthly border runs.

Overstay fines increased, then a maximum number of consecutive runs was introduced, then the 90/180 day rule, the 15 day rule and now this. Also of course the 'courier' type visa was all but eliminated when places such as "the wall" which would do the run for you was busted. I agree that the end of the border runs would kill Thailand as a tourist hub, which is why I said they should re-asses how it will affect them.

I can't comment on the more official type of visas during that time but border run stamps have definitely gotten stricter. I have noticed little to no change on Tourist and Non-O visa's in the 4 years or so that I have been using them.

[humfurry]

I wouldn't be surprised to see border runs stopped altogether within the next 3 years or so. There's not much that long term expats can complain about though because it shouldn't be a problem for us anyway, they may need to re-asses how much it will affect tourists though.

Once the border runs have gone then they may start looking at restrictions on tourist visas. That'll be interesting.

Well I have been following this for ten years now, and there seems to be a constant ebb and flow, tightening, loosening, tightening, loosening. I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Also legit tourists need to do land border crossings. If you eliminated so called border runs you would kill Thailand as a tourist hub for some kinds of travelers, probably mostly backpackers. Bottom line, I think you are wrong.

They will hardly stop border traffic.

I guess that the perceived problem is the number of foreigners living here long term on border hops. This is easy to stop.

Any border entry including airports with no visa, 30 days allowed stay, no repeat and no extensions until after 30 days out of Thailand.

Tourist visa for three or six months. No repeat and no extensions in a year. No need to exit Thailand after three months.

This would stop immediately all the border hoppers, increase revenues for the consulates and embassies and reduce the carbon emissions from all the minibusses heading out of BKK, Pattaya and Phuket every day. Win win all around, except for maybe the tourists arrival statistics :D

12DrinkMore....maybe you "Drink too much"

Cheers

[opalhort]

From the point of view of Immigration the new rule makes perfect sense.

Four times 15 days in a row at land borders should be enough for any "real tourist".

As in the past the 30 days visa exempt rule, the new 15 days rule has been abused by people staying here long term.

WHY NOT GET at least a TOURIST VISA????

Does anybody know what Malaysia does with "border runners"?

Malaysia gives 90 days visa exempt entry to most western nationalities. What if you stay in MY and do a border run every 90 days, how long would they let you do it???? I doubt very much they would let you in more than twice back-to-back (same or next day return) without you having a very good reason.

opalhort

[nohab]

Once again I have read this thread like previous similar threads looking for info that may be useful to someone under 50 that wants to stay in Thailand for an extended period. I dont want to work there or get married.

All I find are smug posts from smartarse farangs that i assume have either retirement visas, marriage visas or work visas telling everyone to stay in their own countries and stay out of Thailand. We are all criminals or the dregs of western society and the borders should be tightened to keep us out. Listen to yourselves.

If you have enough money to live in Thailand and therefore contribute by paying sales tax on everything you buy and create jobs what is so wrong with that.

Seems to me that a lot of those who are already long term expats want to keep Thailand for themselves and not let anyone else into their club.

[humfurry]

Once again I have read this thread like previous similar threads looking for info that may be useful to someone under 50 that wants to stay in Thailand for an extended period. I dont want to work there or get married.

All I find are smug posts from smartarse farangs that i assume have either retirement visas, marriage visas or work visas telling everyone to stay in their own countries and stay out of Thailand. We are all criminals or the dregs of western society and the borders should be tightened to keep us out. Listen to yourselves.

If you have enough money to live in Thailand and therefore contribute by paying sales tax on everything you buy and create jobs what is so wrong with that.

Seems to me that a lot of those who are already long term expats want to keep Thailand for themselves and not let anyone else into their club.

Ditto... from a long stay farang

[moo9]

but if you are below 50 and wish to stay in Thailand your options are limited.

How are the Visa Options in the EU without having family there, no work permit....?

However I agree, that Thailand should now encourage foreign visitors. investments etc.

I just don't know what makes them think this way in difficult economic times. Farangs more or less create jobs instead of taking them away from Thais!

[DP25]

Sounds to me like it's an attempt to force people to use their shiny new airport they spent billions of dollars on, rather than taking a mini bus to Cambodia.

[spaceshipcrew]

And when it´s time to give new style traffic education to Thai, as well as environmental conciousness and the relevant changes of attitude towards evironment ?

The only rules are always being updated in this country are the visarules but improvement of the own kind seems a non issue !

[sassienie]

Is it possible that Thailand is making and enforcing this regulation for a reason? Could it be to get rid of those who cannot get a visa due to, Criminal Records, Lack of Income, Communicable Diseases (can't get a health cert), or have other serious problems which would preclude a legitimate visa?

Look to all the "1st World" countries and see which ones allow "Border Run Visas".

Finally a clean-up is underway.

Exactly!

Including, fugitives from their home countries, pedos, drug dealers, human traffickers, Farang mafia gangs that are often the real owners of bars, massage parlours, sex establishments, restaurants, who are hiding behind Thai name front owners. These people are bypassing the normal Immigration procedures to avoid being vetted, for getting around the imposed Immigration requirements and are using loopholes in the system to stay in Thailand long term.

This of course only creates a result of the tightening up of visa rules and requirements making it tougher for those long term ex pats who are here legitimately.

A tourist is someone who is meant to be on holiday, it’s as simple as that. For Westerners staying here longer than 6 months on tourist visas, their reasons for being here has to be questionable.

Edited June 1, 2009 by sassienie

[venturalaw]

Once again I have read this thread like previous similar threads looking for info that may be useful to someone under 50 that wants to stay in Thailand for an extended period. I dont want to work there or get married.

All I find are smug posts from smartarse farangs that i assume have either retirement visas, marriage visas or work visas telling everyone to stay in their own countries and stay out of Thailand. We are all criminals or the dregs of western society and the borders should be tightened to keep us out. Listen to yourselves.

If you have enough money to live in Thailand and therefore contribute by paying sales tax on everything you buy and create jobs what is so wrong with that.

Seems to me that a lot of those who are already long term expats want to keep Thailand for themselves and not let anyone else into their club.

Perhaps there are some who are this way. I am a 'long term' expat, and I want the opposite. I want to see Thailand prosper, my Thai friends and now relatives' businesses prosper. That takes tourists - all types - rich, poor, all who spend money. There is no sense whatsoever in adding restrictions to make tourism difficult.

Edited June 1, 2009 by venturalaw

[Jingthing]

These people are bypassing the normal Immigration procedures to avoid being vetted

That is ridiculous! You get 15 days. Do you realize how quickly your passport would fill up trying to stay here long term on 15 day border runs.

[humfurry]

Is it possible that Thailand is making and enforcing this regulation for a reason? Could it be to get rid of those who cannot get a visa due to, Criminal Records, Lack of Income, Communicable Diseases (can't get a health cert), or have other serious problems which would preclude a legitimate visa?

Look to all the "1st World" countries and see which ones allow "Border Run Visas".

Finally a clean-up is underway.

Exactly!

Including, fugitives from their home countries, pedos, drug dealers, human traffickers, Farang mafia gangs that are often the real owners of bars, massage parlours, sex establishments, restaurants, who are hiding behind Thai name front owners. These people are bypassing the normal Immigration procedures to avoid being vetted, for getting around the imposed Immigration requirements and are using loopholes in the system to stay in Thailand long term.

This of course only creates a result of the tightening up of visa rules and requirements making it tougher for those long term ex pats who are here legitimately.

A tourist is someone who is meant to be on holiday, it’s as simple as that. For Westerners staying here longer than 6 months on tourist visas, their reasons for being here has to be questionable.

Are you kidding me, all the things you spoke of are against the law in Thailand...Seriously, the Thais have the monopoly on all you speak of....Thai vs Thai is about how it should read

[witsawakorn]

get a real job and a real 1 year visa! that's the other option:)

And if real job is out of a question you can always pretend to be studying thai and get a ED visa. Non-immigrant, all kind of perks like local driving licence and you can call yourself as an expat or resident in the pub in front of your "mates".

there's always plenty of Thai chicks to marry lol.

my guess is thats the only farangs the Thai govt want here - and the reason to boot the others. married farangs dont do border runs.

anyone else here under 50 is probably causing problems or running from the law. over 50 they just wanna die somewhere warm and cant afford Florida.

You must have some dodgy friends and probably living in Pattaya. All of my under 50 friends ( and myself) are legally employed here in BKK.

[sedeflonga]

get a real job and a real 1 year visa! that's the other option:)

good luck finding a job is LoS!

[Jingthing]

over 50 they just wanna die somewhere warm and cant afford Florida

Ouch!

[noahvail]

there's always plenty of Thai chicks to marry lol.

my guess is thats the only farangs the Thai govt want here - and the reason to boot the others. married farangs dont do border runs.

anyone else here under 50 is probably causing problems or running from the law. over 50 they just wanna die somewhere warm and cant afford Florida.

yep, just couldn't get my head around living in a single-wide in some tornado alley 75 miles south-east of Kissimmee, getting around on a 3-wheel push bike

[reenatinnakor]

there's always plenty of Thai chicks to marry lol.

my guess is thats the only farangs the Thai govt want here - and the reason to boot the others. married farangs dont do border runs.

anyone else here under 50 is probably causing problems or running from the law. over 50 they just wanna die somewhere warm and cant afford Florida.

and can't find any other country's women that will marry someone fat, ugly and balding and is 40 years older than they are!

[humfurry]

over 50 they just wanna die somewhere warm and cant afford Florida

Ouch!

I have a place in Tampa and L.A. and Bkk, but wait, I'm not old...sorry bout that

[resspec]

What is not being addressed here is the constant change at very short notice to visa rules. Could this possibly be part of a longer term plan to make life harder for all farangs deciding to live over here? (I read a couple of days ago in the Post that they were going to start to clamp down on "Spouse nominee bought properties".)

This must cause some difficulties to people entering or re-entering the kingdom. One can sit and judge but money is money regardles of whether it is being spent in-country by someone wearing "planters" at the Oriental or a football shirt in Sabai a gogo and it should probably be welcomed by all in these difficult times.

[MJo]

Once again I have read this thread like previous similar threads looking for info that may be useful to someone under 50 that wants to stay in Thailand for an extended period. I dont want to work there or get married.

All I find are smug posts from smartarse farangs that i assume have either retirement visas, marriage visas or work visas telling everyone to stay in their own countries and stay out of Thailand. We are all criminals or the dregs of western society and the borders should be tightened to keep us out. Listen to yourselves.

If you have enough money to live in Thailand and therefore contribute by paying sales tax on everything you buy and create jobs what is so wrong with that.

Seems to me that a lot of those who are already long term expats want to keep Thailand for themselves and not let anyone else into their club.

Could not agree more. If you have the money to live in Thailand you surely have few hundred bucks to pay for your visas and voila. Problem solved.

[humfurry]

Once again I have read this thread like previous similar threads looking for info that may be useful to someone under 50 that wants to stay in Thailand for an extended period. I dont want to work there or get married.

All I find are smug posts from smartarse farangs that i assume have either retirement visas, marriage visas or work visas telling everyone to stay in their own countries and stay out of Thailand. We are all criminals or the dregs of western society and the borders should be tightened to keep us out. Listen to yourselves.

If you have enough money to live in Thailand and therefore contribute by paying sales tax on everything you buy and create jobs what is so wrong with that.

Seems to me that a lot of those who are already long term expats want to keep Thailand for themselves and not let anyone else into their club.

Could not agree more. If you have the money to live in Thailand you surely have few hundred bucks to pay for your visas and voila. Problem solved.

That's certainly more than most Thais have...sad but true!

[maxtingtong]

well, I never use visa on arrival, so personally i don't mind.

I can understand their position, visa on arrival is free, while if you apply for a tourist visa embassies get money and, if you do visa runs you spend money in other neighbors country, if you got tourist visa you stay more in thailand.

Is it all a matter of money or something else?

Anyway, i think also that immigration rules in thailand should be more friendly toward farangs, as we are the primary sustain source of the country, instead of do life impossible to visitors. Looks like them are pleased to have regular 2weeks tourists, but much less happy about long time trippers. I don't understand, is not our money what they want?

Max