Awkward Gay Related Moment At The Food Court

[Jingthing]

So I was at a food court, and the friendly serving girls were offering a free promotion item if I bought another item. So far, so good. Then for sanuk's sake one girl made a comment that they were also offering a free girl. This kind of joke is not exactly unheard of in Pattaya, and you know it is a joke, because of the free part, ha ha. Anyway, I should have just smiled to be polite or even flirted (what's to hurt?). Instead, I stupidly said mai aow which is a rude way of saying I don't want. They were visibly offended and made uncomfortable and of course I didn't mean to do that. As happens to all of us who don't wear frocks, we live under the assumption of heterosexuality. So to these girls, my dumb comment meant (1) I didn't get that they were just having sanuk so I thought they were sluts and (2) that I didn't find them sexy enough to want to schtup even if they weren't joking. All I could do then was smile and try to act like nothing had happened (very Thai-like of me, eh?). It was already strange enough, I didn't want to complicate it further by telling them I was gay and don't want any sexy girls, nothing personal, I feel that would have made it even worse and prolong the bad feelings. Anyway, bottom line, when offered sexy girls outside of an actual prostitution venue, don't do what I did today at the food court.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[endure]

How long have you lived in Thailand? When are you going to 'get it'?

[Jingthing]

When are you going to 'get it'?

Never.

Satisfied?

You haven't ever slipped out something without thinking and then regretted it? In other words, a gaffe. Nothing to do with Thailand, has to do with being human.

I am smart enough to admit I am stupid sometimes. People who claim to have never done or said anything stupid ... I can't relate!

Edited June 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[eek]

Hi jingthing. I dont usually come to this forum, but I was viewing the new posts, and your title made me curious. Hope you dont mind a viewpoint from a hetro female. Just wish to say (and this will most likely not go down well), that although smiling/laughing at the comment they made may have been the most polite/right thing to do, what you said may have given them a dose of reality check too. That 1: they shouldnt presume that all men are heterosexual. 2: Even if heterosexual, they shouldnt presume all men would be flattered/appreciate the comment.

I recall one time myself and my bf, who is Thai, were walking through one of the food courts, and although we were obviously together and its just their job, two of the beer serving girls walked right up in front of him in a flirtatious manner, despite me being next to him, blocking his path. It was as though i were invisible. I imagine it may at times happen to many gf's/wives (depending on the food court girls). It didnt faze me, because he didnt pander to them. Just smiled, held his hand out in a no thanks gesture, and walked on. But, had he flirted back, I may have felt a bit disrespected. Im not against harmless flirting in any way, but in that situation, if my bf had flirted back to women who were obviously showing no consideration/respect to his female companion, I felt would have sent out the wrong signal to them. That its perfectly ok to do that to all men, that all men appreciate it, even if they have a female companion with them.

All im saying, is that depending on the situation, is sometimes good for people to get an ego-check. Of course, polite is always best, and the Mai Ow comment would have been better not said, but dont beat yourself up too much over it. (I do realise that my post is not really anything to do with the message that you are sending out...how to best react when faced with a comment like that as a gay man..but I just wished to give a different slant/perspective on what happened.

[peridot]

Jinthing,

I had a similar thing happen in Patong Beach once. I was walking down the sidewalk and a woman grabbed my arm, pretty forcefully, and tried to pull me into a massage parlor. I reacted to the grab by pulling my arm away and saying "please don't touch me, mai ow". Suddenly several girls were shrieking about the rude farang. I felt terrible, but they really startled me! I walked on, then turned around and came back and talked with them. I apologized and explained that I preferred puchai to puying, and their attitude changed immediately. Once they saw I wasn't rejecting them, they started laughing and treasing me, asking if I wanted to try a woman. I suddenly was surrounded by friends rather than hissing cats.

After several years here, I am sometimes torn between cultures. I want to respect local culture, but when it is based on trying to extract as man baht from my pocket with no consideration for my ideas of politeness, I don't think I need to stay polite in a Thai way. I am being racially profiled frequently here, but then expected to react like a Thai person. Even though I try, I am not Thai and never will be. Maybe if I got treated the same as a Thai person I could learn to react like one.

Peridot

[eek]

..Im sorry peridot, but i dont really understand why you should have felt you should have apologised. A woman forcefully grabbed you, and when you declined, they had the audacity to call YOU rude. The woman was impolite to you, and the girls attitude was disgraceful. It should not matter what your sexual orientation is. Rudeness is rudeness. Personally think they didnt deserve that apology in the least.

[OxfordWill]

Personally I think what you said was quite funny and if they took offence they were at fault. Maybe you really scowled when you said it.

peridot if they did that to a well dressed Thai man of higher age, I guarantee you he would do worse than say mai aow.

Edited June 4, 2009 by OxfordWill

[Lost in LOS]

jingthing you shouldn't have given that famous scowl look of yours : ) probably scared them first thing i learned from a thia lady teacher is if you say mei aow, make sure you put a krup after it. i do this and always get a smile. now if a gay guy grabbed my arm i might just say mei aow........... just kidding jingthing

[Jingthing]

Some interesting responses from some angles I hadn't thought about.

I am not agonizing at all about this, it was just kind of embarrassing.

As far as coming out constantly to random strangers, I am not comfortable doing that nor do I think it is an obligation to do so. Sure to anyone I might be close with.

Another point, when we are aggressively assailed by prostitutes of any sex and any level of attractiveness, especially when they physically grab at you and block your way walking down the street, I don't think there is anything at all wrong with say mai aow, even without a khrap! The context is completely different. You aren't commenting on whether they are prostitutes (they are), you aren't commenting on whether they are hot or not hot, you are standing up for yourself as a human being from being aggressively bothered.

The food court ladies, an entirely different matter. I agree with eek it was not necessary to flirt with them, but they didn't deserve to be insulted either, just for making incorrect stereotypical assumptions. If we were rude to all Thais who made incorrect stereotypical assumptions of many kinds about us, that would be really unpleasant, and we would be very busy being rude.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[eek]

Yes, there is quite a difference between a couple of food court girls being silly and cute to a man on his own, to the kind of situation that peridot described.

Nvm jingthing, as you say, its a lesson learned. We all make mistakes, as, as you have said, do Thai people. Its human nature after all. I do however, whole heartedly agree about standing up for yourself as a human being when being aggressively bothered.

[Paagai]

Next time try: "mi nong chaai narrak mai"? You never know........

[Ijustwannateach]

As you said, it was a gaffe- made more difficult because the literal translation was actually what you wanted to say- although perhaps 'mai penh rai' as a better way of saying 'no thank you' would be a good habit for you to get into to avoid other similar moments. You didn't mean to be rude. It's true in every language learning situation that you reach a point where 'a little learning is a dangerous thing,' because others who hear you assume you are fully functional when you are still struggling with the idiom.

I very deliberately once said that (mai ao) to a drunk and very obnoxious Thai man who was annoying everyone in sight in a gay bar. The others were being more polite and simply waiting for him to move on, but his physical contact with me in that instance was aggressive, and it was time someone took a stand. He became very offended, but the rest of the Thais around were smiling behind their drinks. Rudeness can sometimes be a valuable social tool, used judiciously.

[yumidesign]

When are you going to 'get it'?

Never.

Satisfied?

You haven't ever slipped out something without thinking and then regretted it? In other words, a gaffe. Nothing to do with Thailand, has to do with being human.

I am smart enough to admit I am stupid sometimes. People who claim to have never done or said anything stupid ... I can't relate!

we are all not clever all the time....... nice story

[Jingthing]

Its been a few days now and I am recovering nicely to the extreme psychological trauma of the sexy Thai girls misinterpreting my comment at the food court. I think I deserve an ice cream cone!

[Tyke]

So I was at a food court, and the friendly serving girls were offering a free promotion item if I bought another item. So far, so good. Then for sanuk's sake one girl made a comment that they were also offering a free girl. This kind of joke is not exactly unheard of in Pattaya, and you know it is a joke, because of the free part, ha ha. Anyway, I should have just smiled to be polite or even flirted (what's to hurt?). Instead, I stupidly said mai aow which is a rude way of saying I don't want. They were visibly offended and made uncomfortable and of course I didn't mean to do that. As happens to all of us who don't wear frocks, we live under the assumption of heterosexuality. So to these girls, my dumb comment meant (1) I didn't get that they were just having sanuk so I thought they were sluts and (2) that I didn't find them sexy enough to want to schtup even if they weren't joking. All I could do then was smile and try to act like nothing had happened (very Thai-like of me, eh?). It was already strange enough, I didn't want to complicate it further by telling them I was gay and don't want any sexy girls, nothing personal, I feel that would have made it even worse and prolong the bad feelings. Anyway, bottom line, when offered sexy girls outside of an actual prostitution venue, don't do what I did today at the food court.

I cannot for the life of me understand what you did wrong, despite how others have analysed it. I would have done exactly the same (also being gay). They were being offensive, not you being dumb.

[Jingthing]

Saying mai aow sounds rude to Thais.

It is more polite to say mai aow khrap.

Even more to say pom mai aow khrap.

But they really weren't offering themselves, they were just joking around, so there was no need for any words of decline.

So I think I did do wrong for the context of the situation.

There is a bit more to this story. I am used to saying mai aow (the rude way) to sex biz people rudely bugging me on the street (I walk a lot) so I was a bit on automatic, and that was unwise.

In case you are wondering I have never had a Thai react badly to a rude mai aow when spoken in response to rudeness on their part. They seem to accept that as a reasonable reaction. So when these girls looked so freaked out to the visible degree that they did, I was rather surprised.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[harrry]

Jingthing could you tell me which food court this was at and which counter

[Jingthing]

Jingthing could you tell me which food court this was at and which counter

You are going to trust me to judge whether a girl is sexy or not?

Edited June 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[Tyke]

Saying mai aow sounds rude to Thais.

It is more polite to say mai aow khrap.

Even more to say pom mai aow khrap.

But they really weren't offering themselves, they were just joking around, so there was no need for any words of decline.

So I think I did do wrong for the context of the situation.

There is a bit more to this story. I am used to saying mai aow (the rude way) to sex biz people rudely bugging me on the street (I walk a lot) so I was a bit on automatic, and that was unwise.

In case you are wondering I have never had a Thai react badly to a rude mai aow when spoken in response to rudeness on their part. They seem to accept that as a reasonable reaction. So when these girls looked so freaked out to the visible degree that they did, I was rather surprised.

Well I've heard Thais say 'mai ow' many times and never 'mai ow crap', or is it 'mai ow clap'. I think you are being overly PC. I find it offensive when Thais shout at me in the street, sometimes from across the street, asking if I want to buy them or not - and this is not always in a bar street - just ordinary Thais thinking they are having fun with a farang. They would never do that to one of their own - so why with a farang? I often feel like telling them to <deleted> off, and sometimes do if they persist, but usually just ignore them.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Tyke

[Scott]

Nice to see you are sensitive to having hurt their feelings, but I often find the sexy flirtatious behavior to be offensive. I am trying to buy something and I am not interested in their promotions or other things. I try not to be rude, but I can sure walk away from them in mid-sentence (which is also rude).

[sbk]

Saying mai aow sounds rude to Thais.

It is more polite to say mai aow khrap.

Even more to say pom mai aow khrap.

But they really weren't offering themselves, they were just joking around, so there was no need for any words of decline.

So I think I did do wrong for the context of the situation.

There is a bit more to this story. I am used to saying mai aow (the rude way) to sex biz people rudely bugging me on the street (I walk a lot) so I was a bit on automatic, and that was unwise.

In case you are wondering I have never had a Thai react badly to a rude mai aow when spoken in response to rudeness on their part. They seem to accept that as a reasonable reaction. So when these girls looked so freaked out to the visible degree that they did, I was rather surprised.

Probably it had more to do with the fact that they assumed all farang men would be interested in them rather than it being rude. I've used mai ow with pushy sales people and never gotten any reaction other than to leave me alone.

[Jingthing]

Probably it had more to do with the fact that they assumed all farang men would be interested in them rather than it being rude.

Agreed. See OP.

[phetaroi]

I am used to saying mai aow (the rude way) to sex biz people rudely bugging me on the street (I walk a lot) so I was a bit on automatic, and that was unwise.

Actually, I'm glad you brought this up. I'm a fairly liberal person, though I guess you could say "straight-laced" (not putting any emphasis, of course, on the straight part of that). I accept that there is prostitution in Thailand and my attitude is mai pben rai. It's really up to the individual to partake or not, to become a prostitute or not (I am assuming no forced prostitution for the sake of this thread).

Having said that, I am highly offended that I am the target of taxi driver pimps so often on the street. One of the worst locations is in front of the Amari Watergate Hotel, which happens to be a location I must pass buy once or twice a day since I am temporarily staying at the Centrepoint Phetburi. The taxi driver/pimps are rather agressive. I have been offered women, men, boys, and girls. And to be offered the latter two categories is especially repugnant to me.

I don't mind as I walk down the street and am constantly offered massage, or food, or trinkets, or whatever. I am offended by being hounded by pimps. Why do they assume that all farang want or need a prostitute? Why do they have such disrespect for women (or whatever the category)? Why are they so sleazy?

What has been my reaction, thus far? Well, if looks could kill.... But you have given me more ammunition (the whole "mai aow" thread), although before I use it I will discuss the various levels ("mai aow" versus "poom mai aow", for example) with a Thai friend. But, thanks for setting me on the right path.

[Tyke]

Saying mai aow sounds rude to Thais.

It is more polite to say mai aow khrap.

Even more to say pom mai aow khrap.

But they really weren't offering themselves, they were just joking around, so there was no need for any words of decline.

So I think I did do wrong for the context of the situation.

There is a bit more to this story. I am used to saying mai aow (the rude way) to sex biz people rudely bugging me on the street (I walk a lot) so I was a bit on automatic, and that was unwise.

In case you are wondering I have never had a Thai react badly to a rude mai aow when spoken in response to rudeness on their part. They seem to accept that as a reasonable reaction. So when these girls looked so freaked out to the visible degree that they did, I was rather surprised.

Probably it had more to do with the fact that they assumed all farang men would be interested in them rather than it being rude. I've used mai ow with pushy sales people and never gotten any reaction other than to leave me alone.

By assuming (and expressing) that all farang men would be interested in them IS being rude (and demeaning).

[geriatrickid]

..Im sorry peridot, but i dont really understand why you should have felt you should have apologised. A woman forcefully grabbed you, and when you declined, they had the audacity to call YOU rude. The woman was impolite to you, and the girls attitude was disgraceful. It should not matter what your sexual orientation is. Rudeness is rudeness. Personally think they didnt deserve that apology in the least.

Double standard that it's ok for these ladies to grab a guy, but if a farang does that to one of the gals, all hel_l breaks loose. (And rightly so.) We've all seen the threads in TV about such events. I don't know why jingles should feel bad or give it a 2nd thought. He didn't do anything wrong. Someone made a comment that would offend most regular Thais, so why is it assumed that an elderly farang male would relish the prospect of a bimbo? It's sort of depressing when you think about it. Yea, yea, I know it was a joke, but jeez is human dignity that cheap?

[eek]

I imagine many western men find Thailand paradise, but I also imagine many could find it a nightmare. As a western female, its is never presumed that i am here for sex, so im not badgered in that way. I think for the average guy it could wear them down if day in day out they are presumed to be interested in the sex industry and hounded. The male tourist may have a bit of a laugh about it, but I cant imagine living with that kind of pestering everyday is fun.

[davejonesbkk]

should have taken the free girl....then given her to me

[Jingthing]

Someone made a comment that would offend most regular Thais, so why is it assumed that an elderly farang male would relish the prospect of a bimbo?

I ain't elderly!

I see the point that the food court girls stereotyped me in a rude way that they would have not done to Thai customers. It is well known that Thais often like to have fun at work, and this was fun for them, until I threw a big bucket of ice water on it. They were just joking around, albeit stupidly, and I put that in a different class than a bona fide prostitute bugging you on the street.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Jingthing

[huggybear]

Probably it had more to do with the fact that they assumed all farang men would be interested in them rather than it being rude.

Agreed. See OP.

Sorry, I don't mean to invade this sub forum (as a hetero male), but I think it would have been more rude to say "Mai Chai" (yes/no)?

Also, I run into the same fairly often, and usually it's just the girls acting funny with their friends. I usually laugh it up with them and say tomorrow (prueng-nee, wannee nuay mak) today very tired.

[scorecard]

Its been a few days now and I am recovering nicely to the extreme psychological trauma of the sexy Thai girls misinterpreting my comment at the food court. I think I deserve an ice cream cone!

Congratulations on your quick recovery.

I think you deserve more than ice cream cone, but I'll let you pick whatever you want as a reward, but i'm suggesting something hot and throbbing.