Actor David Carradine Dead in Bangkok

[caf]

To those that still doubt the scenario: Please go to your local medical school library and have a look at the stacks sections labeled forensic pathology. There are at least a dozen textbooks all with multiple photographs of similar or even more puzzling scenarios, all of which were deemed death by AEA gone wrong. A basic google search of images will turn up a few photos as well. There is nothing unusual about the scenario as far as AEA deaths go.

To those fixating on the footprint, one doesn't even know if it was a footprint, if it was the deceased's or if it was one of the hotel workers.

To those concerned about windows, perhaps you may wish to look at a picture of the hotel and then judge the likelihood of whether someone came in or went out by the window. Yes there are balconies, but do you really think people are going to be climbing up and down the balconies without being observed? The garden view rooms are in public view.

To those convinced there was someone else in the room (and it is plausible), keep in mind that in higher end hotels like the Swissotel Thais cannot get up to a guest's room without being carded. It's happened to my me at the Sheraton, the President and Novotel. Even my friends in uniform or suits got stopped. This is one of the reasons people stay in hotels like this: Security. Someone would have seen the presumed guest of Mr. Carradine. One thing about Thailand's better hotels is that there are cameras in the elevators and in the elevator lobbies. An image would have most likely been recorded.

I think folks need to put aside their own person beliefs and assumptions as to the cause of death because there are hundreds of similar deaths recorded every year. It may be shocking to some, but read enough autopsy reports and you will be amazed at the weird and wacky ways in which people die.

Even my friends in uniform or suits got stopped.

What a troll. Uniforms do more than open doors in Thailand as we all know. They would not be stopped. I assume the troll is referring to car park attendants in uniform and bathing suits!!

[keemapoot]

They fled and then a ghost locked the door from the inside, is that it?

I think it's more than plausible. Most closet doors have push button locks that can be locked and then pulled shut to make it appear the deceased was alone. I think if they carry through the DNA and simply fingerprint tests that will determine whether another person was in the room. The FBI is now involved. If so, such 2nd person was most likely a simple pay for play man or woman, and we would not expect such an elaborate covering of tracks as they would simply flee the scene after the accidental death. So, a 2nd person should be easy to discover.

I guess the more gruesome scenario is whether this was a carefully planned murder set to appear as though it was a case of auto erotic gone wrong. That also seems unlikely, as rarely do people ordering hits go to such lengths unless there is big money or other motives involved requiring such elaborate setups.

Unfortunately, and embarrassingly, in my mind, this seems to be a self administered accidental death until proven otherwise. Admittedly, the tied hands is a stumper, but it is possible to tie your own hands using your teeth.

[cyborg22]

Simple as you put it finger print tests were undertaken and viewing the security cameras to no avail.

police Conclusion, He was alone at the time. DNA tests are as of yet not available so i'm told

Edited June 7, 2009 by cyborg22

[jumnien]

They fled and then a ghost locked the door from the inside, is that it?

I think it's more than plausible. Most closet doors have push button locks that can be locked and then pulled shut to make it appear the deceased was alone. I think if they carry through the DNA and simply fingerprint tests that will determine whether another person was in the room. The FBI is now involved. If so, such 2nd person was most likely a simple pay for play man or woman, and we would not expect such an elaborate covering of tracks as they would simply flee the scene after the accidental death. So, a 2nd person should be easy to discover.

I guess the more gruesome scenario is whether this was a carefully planned murder set to appear as though it was a case of auto erotic gone wrong. That also seems unlikely, as rarely do people ordering hits go to such lengths unless there is big money or other motives involved requiring such elaborate setups.

Unfortunately, and embarrassingly, in my mind, this seems to be a self administered accidental death until proven otherwise. Admittedly, the tied hands is a stumper, but it is possible to tie your own hands using your teeth.

Googling "self-bondage" is quite illuminating:

Self-bondage is considered a higher-risk activity than many other BDSM practices—particularly when combined with autoerotic asphyxia—and has led to many recorded deaths. It is estimated that there are 500 to 1,000 autoerotic fatalities each year in the United States, of which a substantial proportion involve asphyxiation and drug use.[1] The death in 1994 of Stephen Milligan, the British Conservative MP for Eastleigh, was a case of autoerotic asphyxiation combined with self-bondage, and rumours persist that it was also the cause of death of rock singer Michael Hutchence.

Self-bondage has all the risks of physical restraint and sexual bondage, with the added factor that should anything go wrong, there is no-one to effect a rescue. For example, if blood circulation cuts off sensation in limbs, the planned escape mechanism may not be usable.

Tying one's hand seems an easy trick anyone can learn; for a martial arts master, EASY!

[Carmine6]

...

With regard to the investigation, I have not read if his hands were tied behind his back or not.

I can't understand why any person would tie their hands in order to complete the "act."

So, tied in front or back, it does not make sense to me.

...

People are assuming hands tied together. However there was mention of those ropes also going to his throat, so it could have been that the rope was being used for the asphyxiation not for tying the hands together. A simple example would be tie an end of the rope to each wrist and loop the center around the neck.

[cyborg22]

...

With regard to the investigation, I have not read if his hands were tied behind his back or not.

I can't understand why any person would tie their hands in order to complete the "act."

So, tied in front or back, it does not make sense to me.

...

People are assuming hands tied together. However there was mention of those ropes also going to his throat, so it could have been that the rope was being used for the asphyxiation not for tying the hands together. A simple example would be tie an end of the rope to each wrist and loop the center around the neck.

As i said earlier posting possible missed by some as so many.

From a reliable source only one wrist had a rope attached

[Navalator]

With older people the usual cause would be severe depression, serious disease, or a combination. Probably a different dynamic than with adolescents where really trivial seeming social problems can trigger it.

This armchair diagnosing is silly. I am an older person (77) and I do not have any of the usual symptoms of severe depression (Bush is gone) nor a serious disease (everything is in great working order). Read between the lines here. This was a sexual act that got out of control.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Navalator

[tonyrx7]

Anybody notice there was no mention if the hotel security cameras had captured anybody walking in or out of his room.

Most tourist hotel in Bangkok has cctv cameras.

[grantbkk]

Just finished watching... and sexual deviants like Michael Jackson wants the FBI to investigate the case and stated Thailand and the Royal Thai Police operated as somewhere between a "third world and forth world country" range.

IMHO the Thai Rath photo is most certainly a fake.

.... That is not a $700+ room anywhere in the world. ....

Some fairly unqualified assumptions ... also where do you stay ... Backpackers? There are over 1,000 rooms in BKK over USD700 a night - no girls included!

I was referring to the Thai Rath newspaper photo that depicted a male hanging in a closet. That was NOT a $700+ per night hotel room. The photo was probably a stock photo from the newspapers archives. I have been in several expensive hotel rooms here in Bangkok and none of them had the look of a backpacker or short time room like the one in the photograph. Besides, it has been reported that he was found in a large armoire and not a closet.

The family's public relations machine continues its campaign of misdirection by attempting to have David's death classified as a murder. First they say it was probably a robbery. Now it is surmised by the family that a secret society may have staged the elaborate crime scene to cover a murder. The family reps say David knew secrets relating to the martial art of Kung <deleted> and he was killed to ensure his silence. Total BS and concocted by the spin doctors.

RIP David Carradine.

[cyborg22]

Simple as you put it finger print tests were undertaken and viewing the security cameras to no avail.

police Conclusion, He was alone at the time. DNA tests are as of yet not available so i'm told

Tonyrx7 To quote myself cameras viewed to no avail

Edited June 7, 2009 by cyborg22

[Heng]

The family reps say David knew secrets relating to the martial art of Kung <deleted> and he was killed to ensure his silence.

Sounds they are living in the world of B movie plots.

No one wants to accept that their dad, grandfather, brother, etc. killed themselves (on purpose or by accident) with a rope tied around their neck and penis by their own hand (and probably only just a little more consolation if said victim HIRED someone else to do it)... and then splashed across the world news to add insult to injury. Because even then, there's still the *<deleted> were you doing* factor that they'd have to deal with. It's more palatable to their self esteem to believe in a conspiracy.

[cyborg22]

The family reps say David knew secrets relating to the martial art of Kung <deleted> and he was killed to ensure his silence.

Sounds they are living in the world of B movie plots.

No one wants to accept that their dad, grandfather, brother, etc. killed themselves (on purpose or by accident) with a rope tied around their neck and penis by their own hand (and probably only just a little more consolation if said victim HIRED someone else to do it)... and then splashed across the world news to add insult to injury. Because even then, there's still the *<deleted> were you doing* factor that they'd have to deal with. It's more palatable to their self esteem to believe in a conspiracy.

If david carradine knew these secrets, Then i am sure he knew them for a long time. So why kill him now to safeguard them?

[seri thai]

Here's one more possible Scenario:

Hotel offers one of its "exclusive services" to the movie star. Perhaps a girl employed or associated with the Hotel. Things go wrong in the middle of the "service".

Hotel deletes the real footage to remove and covers all evidence. Has newbie cleaning lady to checkout the room.

Plausible?

Wasn't that in "Rising Sun" by Michael Crichton? Fiendish oriental multinationals? No i have to say thats a bit too grassy knoll for me.

Before all you Kung <deleted> fans get upset with me (for I was 1,2) There's an interesting (and funny) article on a tired and emotional David at a screening of "Bound for Glory" earlier this year. (Of which I am a fan)

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2009/03/back_to_the_aer.php

It shows how he very much trod his own lonely path and the lengths that Hollywood goes to in protecting its facade.

Frankly I'll be very surprised if the criminal mastermind going round murdering martial arts stars really exists. I mean if he was real how come Steven the Seagull is still around??

That said this is still Thailand so I'm keeping an open verdict for now.

....

[sabaijai]

Anybody notice there was no mention if the hotel security cameras had captured anybody walking in or out of his room.

Most tourist hotel in Bangkok has cctv cameras.

This has been mentioned several times earlier in this thread. Ex:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2784423

[Journalist]

1) That wasn't a photo of a Nai Lert room. I've stayed there and been in their rooms often. They are nothing like that.

2) "I run into local film producer Tom Waller at a reception hosted by the Italian Embassy. Tom does not believe in the verdict of death by auto-sexual strangulation. He concludes that it was a sex robbery gone wrong,"

Tom's a good mate, but what he knows about detective work and forensic science could be written on the back of a quite small postage stamp.

3) Someone mentioned that you couldn't hang yourself off a cupboard rail. You could, because this isn't 'short drop' hanging of the sort used in executions. No 'drop' at all is needed for this activity as the subject isn't trying to break his neck/damage the aft brain or spinal cord, merely oxygen deprivation. A former colleague of mine, Amschel Rothschild, hung himself off a waist high towel rail in the George V hotel in Paris about 10 years ago.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Journalist

[Tolley]

There is some good news to come from this tragedy.

You can still spank the monkey at 72.

RIP D.C.

[mickba]

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 5/06/2009 at 11:16 AM

"One end of a shoelace was tied around his penis and the other end fastened around his neck, while his hands were bound with a cord which was also tied around his neck."

how did he tie his own hands?

You're not really trying to re-enact it on your own, are you?

You're bad !

A tip for those who can't be bothered to read the whole thread (me sometimes) - better to read the last page or two before posting something way behind the current state of knowledge. Some of the guesses, theories and suppositions have come way late.

[brahmburgers]

there has been several different descriptions of hands tied, in this case. So, it's not clear how they were tied (behind his back, his head, etc). The correct term is probably 'wrists,' but don't expect the BIB to get details correct.

Even if there is evidence of another person having been in the room, that is not, in itself incriminating. He was awol for many hours. He could have had a casual visit, or he could have had sex worker(s) visit. He might have had an unfulfilling encounter with a sex worker, and chose to culminate on his own - after that person left. However, compelling/incriminating evidence might show up closer to the body and time - that could implicate an outside person in 'foul play.' I give more credence to FBI findings than local investigative findings - though there is a time lag which could cause problems.

Regardless of findings, I will always remember Carradine as one very cool guy, and I'm off to the video store to check out 'Kill Bill' - which I've never seen. I also like Uma Thurman, but I don't like overly violent fiction, so I may not like the film. Oh well, I'll find some earlier things he did, where he's talking to someone in his 'that's the way it is, like it or not" 'too-cool-for-school' tone of voice, which I'll never forget.

[zorro1]

There is some good news to come from this tragedy.

You can still spank the monkey at 72.

RIP D.C.

and with both hands tied! old age ? bring it on!! (doing that Leighton Hewit salute now)

[lackerbandman]

I still use the term of Grasshopper,,when explaining something to a younger person ,(ha, with a blank stare back 555),i loved all his shows and like many, grew up with and David and Bruce Lee as role models for whacking the hel_l out of my self and my brother with Nun Chucks !! ,RIP ,,,David

[YouYouYou]

... Thai Rath newspaper photo that depicted a male hanging in a closet. That was NOT a $700+ per night hotel room. The photo was probably a stock photo from the newspapers archives. I have been in several expensive hotel rooms here in Bangkok and none of them had the look of a backpacker or short time room like the one in the photograph.

I have just found this picture in the Thai Rath: see for your self at http://www.thairath.co.th/today/2009/06/06 . The image is partially pixeled out and small.

1) If this is indeed a genuine photo, well then shame on the usual sensitivity of the Thai press to publish such a photo anyway. The Thai press like the Thai Rath rag ..yes it is indeed a rag, often have no concern for family members; Thai or Farang.

2) As pointing to the above quote: Even a bigger shame on the Thai press if it is a fake. If so, I hope some family member out there sues their ass off/ the Thai authorities suspend their licience for their business; the latter, I'm just dreaming LOL.

RIP DC whatever happened.

[marsteele]

The family reps say David knew secrets relating to the martial art of Kung <deleted> and he was killed to ensure his silence.

Sounds they are living in the world of B movie plots.

No one wants to accept that their dad, grandfather, brother, etc. killed themselves (on purpose or by accident) with a rope tied around their neck and penis by their own hand (and probably only just a little more consolation if said victim HIRED someone else to do it)... and then splashed across the world news to add insult to injury. Because even then, there's still the *<deleted> were you doing* factor that they'd have to deal with. It's more palatable to their self esteem to believe in a conspiracy.

If david carradine knew these secrets, Then i am sure he knew them for a long time. So why kill him now to safeguard them?

Ah the secrets of Kung <deleted> theory. 1st heard this theory back in the mid 70's when Bruce Lee died then a couple of years ago when Brandon Lee died now David Carridine. Who is next Chuck Norris, Jean Claude Van Dame or maybe Jack Black the voice of Kung <deleted> Panda.

[zorro1]

... Thai Rath newspaper photo that depicted a male hanging in a closet. That was NOT a $700+ per night hotel room. The photo was probably a stock photo from the newspapers archives. I have been in several expensive hotel rooms here in Bangkok and none of them had the look of a backpacker or short time room like the one in the photograph.

I have just found this picture in the Thai Rath: see for your self at http://www.thairath.co.th/today/2009/06/06 . The image is partially pixeled out and small.

1) If this is indeed a genuine photo, well then shame on the usual sensitivity of the Thai press to publish such a photo anyway. The Thai press like the Thai Rath rag ..yes it is indeed a rag, often have no concern for family members; Thai or Farang.

2) As pointing to the above quote: Even a bigger shame on the Thai press if it is a fake. If so, I hope some family member out there sues their ass off/ the Thai authorities suspend their licience for their business; the latter, I'm just dreaming LOL.

RIP DC whatever happened.

His hair is black in the photo not grey

[cyborg22]

a little bit of an update here mainly to correct a slight error from a previous posting of mine.

Before i stated that only one wrist was tied to a rope. That is still more or less true my source (not mentioned to avoid further comments about it) Has somewhat enlightened me on the subject. One wrist was tied to a rope/cord the other was in someway inserted into a loop on the same cord. (so the 2nd wrist was not actually tied to the other. ) All security camera footage has being viewed and only one image that of mr carradine was seen to enter his room other than mentioned below. The key cards for the room show no entry to his room after his last exit other than a chamber maid up until and including his later entry. The so called footprint on the bed is just pure press hype

The photo shown on here is truely a fake and not that of David carradine

Edited June 7, 2009 by cyborg22

[bf2002]

I can see why he perhaps considered himself a failure, but the love that a lot of us had for him proves that he wasn't. RIP

What would make him think he was a failure? I'm not debating here, but really curious.

I just saw his cameo in Crank 2. He was funny. His career seemed fine, and at his age, I'd think he was having a great life.

Was there something wrong personally?

[marsteele]

... Thai Rath newspaper photo that depicted a male hanging in a closet. That was NOT a $700+ per night hotel room. The photo was probably a stock photo from the newspapers archives. I have been in several expensive hotel rooms here in Bangkok and none of them had the look of a backpacker or short time room like the one in the photograph.

I have just found this picture in the Thai Rath: see for your self at http://www.thairath.co.th/today/2009/06/06 . The image is partially pixeled out and small.

1) If this is indeed a genuine photo, well then shame on the usual sensitivity of the Thai press to publish such a photo anyway. The Thai press like the Thai Rath rag ..yes it is indeed a rag, often have no concern for family members; Thai or Farang.

2) As pointing to the above quote: Even a bigger shame on the Thai press if it is a fake. If so, I hope some family member out there sues their ass off/ the Thai authorities suspend their licience for their business; the latter, I'm just dreaming LOL.

RIP DC whatever happened.

Looking at that pic I would say that it is definately not that of David Carridine (D.C) The victim in this pic has jet black hair, D.C was grey and balding and carrying a few kilos. This victim is thin and I would say more likely than not an asian.

[Jingthing]

With older people the usual cause would be severe depression, serious disease, or a combination. Probably a different dynamic than with adolescents where really trivial seeming social problems can trigger it.

This armchair diagnosing is silly. I am an older person (77) and I do not have any of the usual symptoms of severe depression (Bush is gone) nor a serious disease (everything is in great working order). Read between the lines here. This was a sexual act that got out of control.

I wrote this before the info about the auto erotic situation came out. I am sorry, but many older people do indeed commit suicide, that is a fact. I am happy to hear you are well, but you are not everybody.

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=RrnMQIy...snum=5#PPA88,M1

Edited June 7, 2009 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

I can see why he perhaps considered himself a failure, but the love that a lot of us had for him proves that he wasn't. RIP

What would make him think he was a failure? I'm not debating here, but really curious.

He comes from a very successful family. Look at the list of films that he has been in and then look at Robert Deniro's. That should answer your question.

Tarrintino did give him some credibility - finally - but for years he was considered a joke.

I'm not saying that is how it should be, but how often are things fair?

[YouYouYou]

I have just found this picture in the Thai Rath: see for your self at http://www.thairath.co.th/today/2009/06/06 . The image is partially pixeled out and small.

1) If this is indeed a genuine photo, well then shame on the usual sensitivity of the Thai press to publish such a photo anyway. The Thai press like the Thai Rath rag ..yes it is indeed a rag, often have no concern for family members; Thai or Farang.

2) As pointing to the above quote: Even a bigger shame on the Thai press if it is a fake. If so, I hope some family member out there sues their ass off/ the Thai authorities suspend their licience for their business; the latter, I'm just dreaming LOL.

RIP DC whatever happened.

dam_n, sorry for this second post, but the Thai Rath is shameful, yes bloody shameful ! Anything for a sensationalist buck eh.

I blew this photo up in ACD as best as I could to try and analyse it.

1) Look closely, this man has clothes on (was he not found naked?), possibly Jeans. The Thai Rath has tried hard to pixel this out but not enough.

2) Man appears to have brown to black slighly curly hair.

3) Is that a bloody towel on the bed with a blood trail on the bed? (no mention of this in any reports)

4) The closet/wardrobe is made of chipboard covered with white melamine/formica with black (presumably plastic) round finger hole slider. The bottom shelf that the man is sitting on is the type that slides into position, hence the angle it is now at with the man's weight. This is basic and cheap chipboard furniture (as we used to know it in England AKA MFI). Surely the class of hotel that it is would be fitted out with better?

The Swissotel could easily confirm or deny that this is indeed their room 352.

Me, I'm sending this to the Bangkok Post ...let's see if they publish it. Thai Visa, Inform Thai Rath that they are possibly breaking the law/ tell the police to bust em.

Shame on you Thai Rath.

[marsteele]

Michael Hutchins the lead singer of INXS died in a very similar way a few years back. He was found hanging in a Sydney hotel room also with his hands tied and cord attached to his genitals. The inquest found it to be a sexual suicide.