Comment From A Thai - "we're Going To Get What We Deserve"

[Datsun240Z]

they have seen what the monster Dollar juggernaut can do

Yet they crave the almighty $$$ above everything else. It always amazes me how easily daughters are sold into prostitution. The love of money disgusts me here. This is the country where everything is for sale.

Climb up and stagger out of the bar and run; you've spent too long in Soi Cowboy!

i used prostitution as an example because most readers could probably relate to it because it is so visible in Thailand. Have you ever gone across town in a taxi at night? The city is littered with massage and shower places as well as karaoke bars.

For me I saw how greedy Thais were when i started my business. It was doomed from the beginning with greedy lawyers, suppliers, immigration, dept. of labor, (the list goes on). I tried to be legitimate and it was my undoing. Also as a foreign employee at one point you get to see that a Thai doesn't smile as much when they have to be the one giving you money rather than receiving. I have heard very few farang financial success stories in this country (apart from foreign hired expats for multinational companies). It is not that I have spent too long in Cowboy, rather I have spent too long in Thailand. I am happy to announce that I am leaving in under a months time. I don't feel comfortable staying in a place that will not respect their guests. I'll be back for visits probably on a yearly basis to visit the in laws but I doubt I will live here again anytime soon.

quick edit: i realize that I am generalizing and there are lovely people in this country, however I would never ever recommend to a foreigner to open a business here.

With the last line, I can imagine why. It's simple a hoax for a westerner coming from a modern country to start a business in a 3rld world country, where money ( as in all poor country's ) still is the main key ingredient.

[Geckos]

I live here because I choose to live here and I've ONLY been here 12 years !!! What I've seen in 12 years is this country is built on GREED AND CORRUPTION NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS !!!! AND I CHOOSE TO LIVE WITH THAT !!! Ya there are worst place's to live with this greed and corruption but not that many !!! Thailand is the second most CORRUPTED country in Asia !!! AND A HUNDRED YEARS OF EDUCATION WOULD STILL SEE THAILAND WELL LIKE THE THAI SAY " SAME SAME BUT NOT DIFFERANT" Like I said thou I choose to live he because I see there's still some Thais with kind hearts !!!

[RickBradford]

One of the pillars of "Thai-ness" is the fact that the country was never colonized.

All of the neighboring countries were colonized, and while they expelled the people who are now described as "invaders", the imprint remains, and it is not all negative by any means.

In Vietnam, for example, there is still enormous implicit respect for the French and recognition of what they contributed during their 100-year influence. The impact has been very wide: organization, discipline, acceptance of foreign ways of working. If the dead hand of Communism is ever fully lifted from that country, it is going to zoom forward.

By contrast, Thailand follows its own way, believing that bumbling along, worshiping sanuk as the highest form of existence, not telling anyone what to do, and not expecting anyone to tell you what to do, will eventually work itself out.

I rather like this viewpoint, but it seems to be breaking down as it increasingly grinds against the demands of the globalized economy. You can be smiley, spontaneous and charming, or you can run an efficient industrialized economy. To achieve both simultaneously would be a unique achievement.

[Lancelot]

We farangs (casucasians) are pretty small potatos here in Thailand. For one, tourist arrivals are increasing weighted towards Indians, Arabs and Chinese. Number two, some would argue that the Chinese and Japanese are the most influential investors here in Thailand.

As an aside, here is some snipets from Khun Santisuda's excellent Bangkok Post commentary:

Fear of foreigner on the farm

Posted by Sanitsuda Ekachai , Reader : 2884 , 06:54:35

Hands off! The back-breaking rice farming work is only for Thais. If you are a foreigner wanting to invest in farming here, our laws allow you to partake only in the more profitable business of food processing and other agriculture-related investments which require high capital and technology.

No, no, you foreigners cannot engage in contract-farming here, either. That would turn independent farmers into hired hands on their own land. That would be daylight robbery. Only Thai agro giants can do that and still call it agricultural development!

But if you still want to invest in farming, get a Thai front. The law says it is okay if the paperwork states that your Thai partners own up to 51%. Reality does not count...

What is more stunning is that when the government cited this law to appease the nationalist outcry against the Gulf Cooperation Council's interest in rice farming here, it worked like magic in ending the anxiety, leaving the real issue - that of environmentally destructive farming - as unaddressed as ever...

Intensive chemical farming has hardened the soil, destroyed the organisms that nourish soil fertility, and severely contaminated the waterways and the food chain with cancer-inducing residues. Is this not a crime if the Thais do it?...

Is it possible that our fear of land grabbing by oil-rich Arabs has political, even racist, elements? When ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra wanted to introduce a rice farming scheme from the Middle East, he was lambasted as engaging in a sell-out. PM Abhisit Vejjajiva certainly does not want to be seen as following in the same footsteps.

But why a thunderous no to the Arabs, when no one in power has paid any attention to the Chinese investors who have massively cut down the forests in the North for their orange plantations, filling the valleys with the deathly stench of toxic farm chemicals? And had it not been for fierce opposition from grassroots groups, China would have enjoyed the eucalyptus tree farms deal from the Forestry Department, too...

Mai pen rai, its jsut the way it is

[imaneggspurt]

they have seen what the monster Dollar juggernaut can do

Yet they crave the almighty $$ above everything else. It always amazes me how easily daughters are sold into prostitution. The love of money disgusts me here. This is the country where everything is for sale.

Climb up and stagger out of the bar and run; you've spent too long in Soi Cowboy!

i used prostitution as an example because most readers could probably relate to it because it is so visible in Thailand. Have you ever gone across town in a taxi at night? The city is littered with massage and shower places as well as karaoke bars.

For me I saw how greedy Thais were when i started my business. It was doomed from the beginning with greedy lawyers, suppliers, immigration, dept. of labor, (the list goes on). I tried to be legitimate and it was my undoing. Also as a foreign employee at one point you get to see that a Thai doesn't smile as much when they have to be the one giving you money rather than receiving. I have heard very few farang financial success stories in this country (apart from foreign hired expats for multinational companies). It is not that I have spent too long in Cowboy, rather I have spent too long in Thailand. I am happy to announce that I am leaving in under a months time. I don't feel comfortable staying in a place that will not respect their guests. I'll be back for visits probably on a yearly basis to visit the in laws but I doubt I will live here again anytime soon.

quick edit: i realize that I am generalizing and there are lovely people in this country, however I would never ever recommend to a foreigner to open a business here.

And dont forget greed and jealousy, ive lost 4 big deposits on orders made in thailand, once you have paid if it goes pear shaped be ready for a severe battle, and you are on their ground,..... for holidays for single guys, fine, if thats your bag,to live and try and make a living . forget it,....

[jackdanielsesq]

Lighten up People!! Change ya pharmacist, buy booze in glass, go to gym, stop drinking, stop whinging & whining,

Xmas in Moscow, quit cigarettes, wash ya car, new a gf, newer bf, threesome, catch a play, visit KL, go to temple,

pray, anything - simply be thankful that ya there. I am traveling and yearn for a couple very cold Chang, and a

couple hot babes. Life's Good.

BR>Jack

Why you no rook me, come my loom? Me love you long time Sexxy Man xxxx

[madjbs]

What a load of rubbish from the usual crowd of "I hate Thailand and everything in it" idiots.

Talking of jealousy and superiority complexes...................how ironic.

[Geckos]

Like my Daddy always said it takes one to know ONE !!!!

[myfriendyou]

they have seen what the monster Dollar juggernaut can do

Yet they crave the almighty $$$ above everything else. It always amazes me how easily daughters are sold into prostitution. The love of money disgusts me here. This is the country where everything is for sale.

Climb up and stagger out of the bar and run; you've spent too long in Soi Cowboy!

i used prostitution as an example because most readers could probably relate to it because it is so visible in Thailand. Have you ever gone across town in a taxi at night? The city is littered with massage and shower places as well as karaoke bars.

For me I saw how greedy Thais were when i started my business. It was doomed from the beginning with greedy lawyers, suppliers, immigration, dept. of labor, (the list goes on). I tried to be legitimate and it was my undoing. Also as a foreign employee at one point you get to see that a Thai doesn't smile as much when they have to be the one giving you money rather than receiving. I have heard very few farang financial success stories in this country (apart from foreign hired expats for multinational companies). It is not that I have spent too long in Cowboy, rather I have spent too long in Thailand. I am happy to announce that I am leaving in under a months time. I don't feel comfortable staying in a place that will not respect their guests. I'll be back for visits probably on a yearly basis to visit the in laws but I doubt I will live here again anytime soon.

quick edit: i realize that I am generalizing and there are lovely people in this country, however I would never ever recommend to a foreigner to open a business here.

You want to open a business yet expect to be treated like a guest? Maybe herein lies the first reason you had problems.

[jackdanielsesq]

Daddy's always know best!!

BR>Jack

[JohnGotti]

OP is just another farang with an inferiority complex.

[mrt273nva]

You want to open a business yet expect to be treated like a guest? Maybe herein lies the first reason you had problems.

it would have been great if i was treated as a native. it would have saved my business. sadly i was highly discriminated against on all levels because it was perceived that i had money based on the fact that i am a foreigner. i was not given the opportunity of becoming a native therefore i never was able to shed my guest status, as i am sure many of you are familiar with.

[imaneggspurt]

You want to open a business yet expect to be treated like a guest? Maybe herein lies the first reason you had problems.

it would have been great if i was treated as a native. it would have saved my business. sadly i was highly discriminated against on all levels because it was perceived that i had money based on the fact that i am a foreigner. i was not given the opportunity of becoming a native therefore i never was able to shed my guest status, as i am sure many of you are familiar with.

Must be great to have never had to work in thailand and spend all your time in bars and brothels like the "i love thailand " club,..expats in thailand are no more than extened holiday makers in the thais eyes, suits me as they are right and my holidays up, like i said, great for single guys, for families, or those that have to work,...nah,

[mrt273nva]

Must be great to have never had to work in thailand and spend all your time in bars and brothels like the "i love thailand " club,..expats in thailand are no more than extened holiday makers in the thais eyes, suits me as they are right and my holidays up, like i said, great for single guys, for families, or those that have to work,...nah,

my holiday is up now too. lost a bit of money in the process but i'll be taking back the best part of thailand with me when i leave, my wife and kid.

[imaneggspurt]

Must be great to have never had to work in thailand and spend all your time in bars and brothels like the "i love thailand " club,..expats in thailand are no more than extened holiday makers in the thais eyes, suits me as they are right and my holidays up, like i said, great for single guys, for families, or those that have to work,...nah,

my holiday is up now too. lost a bit of money in the process but i'll be taking back the best part of thailand with me when i leave, my wife and kid.

SNAP !,.......

[myfriendyou]

You want to open a business yet expect to be treated like a guest? Maybe herein lies the first reason you had problems.

it would have been great if i was treated as a native. it would have saved my business. sadly i was highly discriminated against on all levels because it was perceived that i had money based on the fact that i am a foreigner. i was not given the opportunity of becoming a native therefore i never was able to shed my guest status, as i am sure many of you are familiar with.

Having lived here 12 years and run a business that employed 45 Thai staff in BKK, dealing with companies ranging from small start ups to Thai quoted companies I and my partner always felt we were treated like our Thai counterparts, do you think that the problems you encountered are exclusive to farrangs? I can assure you they are not. If you want to do business here understand how things work and deal with it in the same way the locals do.

If you want your service industries (lawyers accountants etc)to treat you as you would be treated in your home country pay that little extra and hire a multinational with offices here.

I suggest most who fail here at any business do so because they fail to adapt to the business environment and mentality here. You want to be treated like a local in business then act like one and you will be.

This is my first hand experience and that of others my partner and I met during the 4 years we ran our company in BKK before selling it to a Thai competitor.

[samran]

You want to open a business yet expect to be treated like a guest? Maybe herein lies the first reason you had problems.

it would have been great if i was treated as a native. it would have saved my business. sadly i was highly discriminated against on all levels because it was perceived that i had money based on the fact that i am a foreigner. i was not given the opportunity of becoming a native therefore i never was able to shed my guest status, as i am sure many of you are familiar with.

Having lived here 12 years and run a business that employed 45 Thai staff in BKK, dealing with companies ranging from small start ups to Thai quoted companies I and my partner always felt we were treated like our Thai counterparts, do you think that the problems you encountered are exclusive to farrangs? I can assure you they are not. If you want to do business here understand how things work and deal with it in the same way the locals do.

If you want your service industries (lawyers accountants etc)to treat you as you would be treated in your home country pay that little extra and hire a multinational with offices here.

I suggest most who fail here at any business do so because they fail to adapt to the business environment and mentality here. You want to be treated like a local in business then act like one and you will be.

This is my first hand experience and that of others my partner and I met during the 4 years we ran our company in BKK before selling it to a Thai competitor.

excellent post.

Many, many westerners here doing just fine, prospering and generally getting on with it.

Seems this thread is being filled with people simply bitter towards life in general.

[Johpa]

Protectionism doesn't work and it only hurts the country that tries it.

Not true. Many countries, both large and small, have used various forms of protectionism to protect fledgling industries that later succeeded. It is only now with the advent of multinational political power that these global corporations would rather remove the ladder that allowed then to reach the coveted high ground to others. What was good for them might be good for others and these powers have no desire to see additional competition. It not the invisible hand but the invisible raised middle digit on display. But this is not the same issue as land ownership rights.

[myfriendyou]

You want to open a business yet expect to be treated like a guest? Maybe herein lies the first reason you had problems.

it would have been great if i was treated as a native. it would have saved my business. sadly i was highly discriminated against on all levels because it was perceived that i had money based on the fact that i am a foreigner. i was not given the opportunity of becoming a native therefore i never was able to shed my guest status, as i am sure many of you are familiar with.

Must be great to have never had to work in thailand and spend all your time in bars and brothels like the "i love thailand " club,..expats in thailand are no more than extened holiday makers in the thais eyes, suits me as they are right and my holidays up, like i said, great for single guys, for families, or those that have to work,...nah,

If That was aimed at me then what an assumption, and a very wrong one, its not hard to see from your posts why you found doing business here hard! the saying comes into mind " a bad workman always blames his tools"

There are hundreds of successful companies here that are farrang owned, however they are all run I would imagine by people who take pleasure in adapting to their environment and succeeding in what they set out to achieve.

[Johpa]

One of the pillars of "Thai-ness" is the fact that the country was never colonized.

Considering that Bangkok is predominately populated by non-Tai minority who monopolize the politics and the economy, only somewhat weakened by inter-marriage over the past century, please tell how this differs from western colonialism.

[Scott]

Protectionism works quite well, note places like, Cuba, North Korea, Myanmar etc...

[Datsun240Z]

Protectionism doesn't work and it only hurts the country that tries it.

Not true. Many countries, both large and small, have used various forms of protectionism to protect fledgling industries that later succeeded.

Ah yeah, the good old U.S.A pumping 380 Bilion into the industry and it's country

[mrt273nva]

You want to open a business yet expect to be treated like a guest? Maybe herein lies the first reason you had problems.

it would have been great if i was treated as a native. it would have saved my business. sadly i was highly discriminated against on all levels because it was perceived that i had money based on the fact that i am a foreigner. i was not given the opportunity of becoming a native therefore i never was able to shed my guest status, as i am sure many of you are familiar with.

Having lived here 12 years and run a business that employed 45 Thai staff in BKK, dealing with companies ranging from small start ups to Thai quoted companies I and my partner always felt we were treated like our Thai counterparts, do you think that the problems you encountered are exclusive to farrangs? I can assure you they are not. If you want to do business here understand how things work and deal with it in the same way the locals do.

If you want your service industries (lawyers accountants etc)to treat you as you would be treated in your home country pay that little extra and hire a multinational with offices here.

I suggest most who fail here at any business do so because they fail to adapt to the business environment and mentality here. You want to be treated like a local in business then act like one and you will be.

This is my first hand experience and that of others my partner and I met during the 4 years we ran our company in BKK before selling it to a Thai competitor.

excellent post.

Many, many westerners here doing just fine, prospering and generally getting on with it.

Seems this thread is being filled with people simply bitter towards life in general.

Thats right. A discussion about personal experiences in relation to Thailand is perceived as bitter if the person didn't prosper. I am putting Thailand behind me and looking forward to my families next giant step. My experiences here has been both good and bad (as it goes with life). I will take what I have learned and apply it to my next phase in life. Just because Thailand doesn't work for some people doesn't mean they are bitter. I would say that most people whether prosperous or not can take an objective look at the workings of Thailand and come to the conclusion that Thais shoot themselves in the foot time and again. It is unfortunate that we can not have a discussion about it without being considered bitter towards life.

[cpofc]

I just came here to live. I did not come here to make money from the Thais, start a business or buy their land. I contribute to their economy by spending my dollars here and I also assist with free education or information when my friends and/or neighbours want to practice or learn some English or have a question about the 'outside world'. I have a wonderful arrangement really. The status quo is perfect.

I will agree with some others here. The average Thai living in the burbs with a mortgage, a pressure job, 2 kids at school. a flash car and a set of maxed out credit cards isn't even aware of immigration and ownership rules pertaining to farangs. Why should he be? He has enough on his plate to have to worry or be concerned about to waste time on something that has nothing to do with him or his family. My friends continually ask me why won't I buy a house. I keep telling them I am not going to buy anything that I can't own outright, lock, stock and barrel. When I tell them the rules, some are not only surprised, but mildly shocked. Meanwhile my Thai wife is in Melbourne buying her 3rd Restaurant. But that's OK, as I always say, know the rules before you start playing. Then you won't get any nasty surprises halfway through the last quarter.

In the past, if farangs had been allowed to buy up land here willy nilly, there would be none left for the Thais. Us farangs are pretty good at that sort of thing, given the chance. I can't say I blame them to be honest and I can live with that.

It's no good continually taking cheap shots at the Thai people in general. Maybe I am just lucky, but I have a great lot of Thai friends here, many of whom are genuinely sorry that I won't buy a place of my own among them.

[Datsun240Z]

I just came here to live. I did not come here to make money from the Thais, start a business or buy their land. I contribute to their economy by spending my dollars here and I also assist with free education or information when my friends and/or neighbours want to practice or learn some English or have a question about the 'outside world'. I have a wonderful arrangement really. The status quo is perfect.

That's really nice, but not everybody has the same expectations as you have! If you earn big bucks in Australia and spend em here, than there's no reason to complain, which underlines your post.

[Wonderboy]

It is just silly how many people fails to see that if you have no money, you will go to great lengths to get some. It is easy for a guy loaded with money to be generous, honest and respectable because he can afford to be. Look at other less developed countries, and I must honestly say that Thailand comes out comparably very, very well. Seems like the biggest whiners here have just experienced western Europe and Thailand. If you want to see really hard ass attitudes, scamming and crime you dont have to go further than Eastern Europe. I travel extensively through the world, and the more I travel, the more respect I get for Thailand.

WB

[myfriendyou]

Thats right. A discussion about personal experiences in relation to Thailand is perceived as bitter if the person didn't prosper. I am putting Thailand behind me and looking forward to my families next giant step. My experiences here has been both good and bad (as it goes with life). I will take what I have learned and apply it to my next phase in life. Just because Thailand doesn't work for some people doesn't mean they are bitter. I would say that most people whether prosperous or not can take an objective look at the workings of Thailand and come to the conclusion that Thais shoot themselves in the foot time and again. It is unfortunate that we can not have a discussion about it without being considered bitter towards life.

Well I applaud you for that it is a good attitude to have and I am sure will see you well in your next adventure

[PeaceBlondie]

Time to post a strict Forum rule:

"8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais."

This entire thread is on the verge of disappearing.

[IanForbes]

I just came here to live. I did not come here to make money from the Thais, start a business or buy their land. I contribute to their economy by spending my dollars here and I also assist with free education or information when my friends and/or neighbours want to practice or learn some English or have a question about the 'outside world'. I have a wonderful arrangement really. The status quo is perfect.

I will agree with some others here. The average Thai living in the burbs with a mortgage, a pressure job, 2 kids at school. a flash car and a set of maxed out credit cards isn't even aware of immigration and ownership rules pertaining to farangs. Why should he be? He has enough on his plate to have to worry or be concerned about to waste time on something that has nothing to do with him or his family. My friends continually ask me why won't I buy a house. I keep telling them I am not going to buy anything that I can't own outright, lock, stock and barrel. When I tell them the rules, some are not only surprised, but mildly shocked. Meanwhile my Thai wife is in Melbourne buying her 3rd Restaurant. But that's OK, as I always say, know the rules before you start playing. Then you won't get any nasty surprises halfway through the last quarter.

In the past, if farangs had been allowed to buy up land here willy nilly, there would be none left for the Thais. Us farangs are pretty good at that sort of thing, given the chance. I can't say I blame them to be honest and I can live with that.

It's no good continually taking cheap shots at the Thai people in general. Maybe I am just lucky, but I have a great lot of Thai friends here, many of whom are genuinely sorry that I won't buy a place of my own among them.

Good post, cpofc. You get back what you are willing to risk. You are right that wealthy foreigners try to take advantage of poorer countries by buying up their land and resources. And, by resource I also mean the actual people living there. Wealthy companies DO use the locals as slave labour in poorer countries, and very often all the profit leaves the country of origin. There is a very fine line between allowing developement and selling out your birthright for pennies on the dollar. I've even seen it in a relatively wealthy country like Canada.

I don't have any problem with Thailand's laws as they are being enforced. I just accept them and live within the parameters. I'm not willing to risk anything I can't walk away from with no regrets.

[BigSnake]

"I think we deserve to suffer to show us what we've done"

Was discussing the changes in Land Department policies on Thai wife's owning land and company structures owning land basically making it much harder.

Also discussing the increasing number of scams such as the King Power one discussed here.

This is a woman in her fifties who does not think that making it less attractive and more difficult for foreigners to invest and live in Thailand is a good thing.

I wonder how many other Thais look at what is happening with worries for the future as opposed to the very short term view that many take

Not many would be my guess, they are all to busy playing Yellow shirt or Red shirt, to give a Buffalo"s Butt to what is really going on.