The Truth About Soya Products?

[haybilly]

Having been advised, by friends, of the dangers of Soya products I have been trawling the internet--I am now more confused than I was ignorant before! My 7 year old daughter is almost addicted to 'Lactasoy' 125 ml. cartons and has been drinking them since getting bored with cow's milk about 4 years ago--Help, what's the lowdown--is it such a dangerous substance that she should 'cold turkey' immediately--or can I wean her off?

[BugJackBaron]

Having been advised, by friends, of the dangers of Soya products I have been trawling the internet--I am now more confused than I was ignorant before! My 7 year old daughter is almost addicted to 'Lactasoy' 125 ml. cartons and has been drinking them since getting bored with cow's milk about 4 years ago--Help, what's the lowdown--is it such a dangerous substance that she should 'cold turkey' immediately--or can I wean her off?

Soy....well it's eaten by the Chinese and Koreans but in nowhere near to huge amounts and they usually ferment it too(which reduces the negative effects). As it is a very controversial product

I would avoid it. Bored with cows milk? Since when do kids get bored with milk?

Are you sure you are not a troll? No matter.

Kids can handle milk because they have an enzyme that helps with lactose digestion - adults lose this.

By the way lettuce and greens will give an adult more calcium than milk.

[haybilly]

Having been advised, by friends, of the dangers of Soya products I have been trawling the internet--I am now more confused than I was ignorant before! My 7 year old daughter is almost addicted to 'Lactasoy' 125 ml. cartons and has been drinking them since getting bored with cow's milk about 4 years ago--Help, what's the lowdown--is it such a dangerous substance that she should 'cold turkey' immediately--or can I wean her off?

Soy....well it's eaten by the Chinese and Koreans but in nowhere near to huge amounts and they usually ferment it too(which reduces the negative effects). As it is a very controversial product

I would avoid it. Bored with cows milk? Since when do kids get bored with milk?

Are you sure you are not a troll? No matter.

Kids can handle milk because they have an enzyme that helps with lactose digestion - adults lose this.

By the way lettuce and greens will give an adult more calcium than milk.

Oh, I'm gutted--my first 'troll' accusation--mind you, it's from someone in Pattaya so I can think of worse things.

My daughter decided that she preferred Lactasoy after being given it by Thai aunts and Granny--believe it or not.

It was the "it's a very controversial product" bit that I was actually interested in, and I have googled it to death so what I was after was an intelligent interpretation of the two sides of the argument.

[robblok]

I avoid it like the plague but that is because im a guy and want to build muscle. For males it bad because it is said to influence the female hormone you produce.

A lil bit of soy milk cant be that bad but if used too much its not good.

[mahtin]

Unfortunately, around 80 percent of soy is genetically modified, which can wreak havoc with your health and should be avoided at all costs.

http://doctormercola.com/2009/03/03/the-truth-about-soy/

[haybilly]

Unfortunately, around 80 percent of soy is genetically modified, which can wreak havoc with your health and should be avoided at all costs.

http://doctormercola.com/2009/03/03/the-truth-about-soy/

Cheers, yes I had read Dr. Mercola's opinions--it's very hard to know who to believe though--Big Soya Ltd, obviously not, but even Dr. Mercola is trying to sell his book 'The Whole Soy Story'--all very confusing.

Thanks to all for replies--even being a potential 'troll'.

[robblok]

Unfortunately, around 80 percent of soy is genetically modified, which can wreak havoc with your health and should be avoided at all costs.

http://doctormercola.com/2009/03/03/the-truth-about-soy/

Cheers, yes I had read Dr. Mercola's opinions--it's very hard to know who to believe though--Big Soya Ltd, obviously not, but even Dr. Mercola is trying to sell his book 'The Whole Soy Story'--all very confusing.

Thanks to all for replies--even being a potential 'troll'.

Your right they all have an angle and its hard to decide who is right. That is the reason i stay away from soy. Its too controversial.

[gunnyd]

Back to the issue I believe the OP is asking about albeit they did not state it clearly.

As @robblok was saying about avoiding soy due to estrogen.

Soybeans contain plant forms of estrogen called phytoestrogens (the chemical name is isoflavones) There have been concerns that consumption of large amounts of soy based products can lead to early puberty in girls. Phytoestrogens are weak in comparison to the estrogen used in hormone replacement therapy. Because of the presence of these phytoestrogens in soy there are many soy supplements on the market for the relief of menopausal symptoms.

I don't think it was about the fact that some soy grown are GM crops.

If the OP is concerned about the sexual development of his daughter they should moderate the consumption of soy products that their daughter is consuming. Google soy and childhood development. You will get plenty of scare sites and a few actual sites with sensible advice.

All in moderation.

[haybilly]

Back to the issue I believe the OP is asking about albeit they did not state it clearly.

As @robblok was saying about avoiding soy due to estrogen.

Soybeans contain plant forms of estrogen called phytoestrogens (the chemical name is isoflavones) There have been concerns that consumption of large amounts of soy based products can lead to early puberty in girls. Phytoestrogens are weak in comparison to the estrogen used in hormone replacement therapy. Because of the presence of these phytoestrogens in soy there are many soy supplements on the market for the relief of menopausal symptoms.

I don't think it was about the fact that some soy grown are GM crops.

If the OP is concerned about the sexual development of his daughter they should moderate the consumption of soy products that their daughter is consuming. Google soy and childhood development. You will get plenty of scare sites and a few actual sites with sensible advice.

All in moderation.

Yes--early onset of puberty in girls and adult males growing breasts-I have read articles detailing these as potential 'side effects'!

Moderation, very definitely until weaned off. My daughter is already happily interspersing her Soya milk with Cow's milk products like Ovaltine, Milo, etc, next I will start to worry about her milk consumption.........

[basjke]

The internet is a mighty medium.Unfortunately everybody can open a website and write on it what fits him best,but that doesn't mean it is true or not.It is all up to what you believe yourself

I take all these stories about Soy with a big grain of salt.

Next do a search for cow milk and you will find sites who recommend it and others who will tell you it is the biggest evil in the world.

Another example is Canola oil.Do a google and you will find out that it is the healthiest oil available but if you do some more searching you will also find out that it is pure poison and the most harmful oil available.

Who will say who is right.

Always keep in mind the one who writes about something is good either bad will have a reason to do so and will profit in some way from his statements.

[Sheryl]

Yes, one can find both outlandish positive claims and scare stories about just any food somewhere on the web.

In the case of soy there are 2 powerful lobbies often involved, with conflicting aims. The livesock industry is, of course, anxious to discredit soy, while the soy production/processing lobby is eager to promote it. So care must be taken to avoid placing reliance on studies or "information" produced with backing by either of these sources.

AFAIK the current state of scientific research on soy is that a diet high in soy has been linked to a lower risk of cancer, particularly cancer of breast and prostate. "Linked" means correlation and does not necessarily imply causation; there may be other factors common to people who consume more soy that account for this, or it might be the soy itself, not yet established. There may also be differences depending on the type of soy product ingested, and this has not been adequately studied.

Most of the "information" about soy being dangerous emanates from Joseph Mercola, an osteopath (and not a medical doctor as many people assume). I find him to be a highly questionable source, as his website often distorts data and is a for-profit commercial venture selling products.

I think the present state of knowledge points to the same advice Grandma would have given you: eat a balanced diet with plenty of variety; s much fresh food and as little processed as possible.

Some of the concerns that have been cited about soy concern processing and preserving techniques. It would be interesting to know how those concerns, which come out of western countries where most people get their tofu or soy milk in a supermarket, compares to the fresh soy milk and tofu available in open markets here.

Another concern is the use of pesticides on the soy beans, this alas is a problem with just about everything...

[cathyy]

Most of the "information" about soy being dangerous emanates from Joseph Mercola, an osteopath (and not a medical doctor as many people assume). I find him to be a highly questionable source, as his website often distorts data and is a for-profit commercial venture selling products.

Did you intend to disparage osteopaths here? My experience with both osteopaths and MDs is such that I far prefer the osteopaths. As far as any individual doctor goes, there are bad apples only out for more bucks in both fields. I thought the time of discrimination against osteopaths had long since ceased in the US. What is an Osteopath?

[sukeroku]

The biggest problem with soy is that soy milk products usually contain enormous amounts of sugar! It's the massive quantity of refined sugar that does the damage, not the soy protein.

[Tolley]

Most research tends to view soy consumption in a positive light.

Personally I would be much more concerned with red meat consumption and the possible negative health effects of too much red meat in the diet than with any perceived problems with soy.

More and more research is coming out about the possible harmful effects of eating red meat too often.

[Sheryl]

Most of the "information" about soy being dangerous emanates from Joseph Mercola, an osteopath (and not a medical doctor as many people assume). I find him to be a highly questionable source, as his website often distorts data and is a for-profit commercial venture selling products.

Did you intend to disparage osteopaths here? My experience with both osteopaths and MDs is such that I far prefer the osteopaths. As far as any individual doctor goes, there are bad apples only out for more bucks in both fields. I thought the time of discrimination against osteopaths had long since ceased in the US. What is an Osteopath?

No disparagement meant towards osteopathy at all, just trying to correct a common misperception about Dr. Mercola and one which does have some relevance to his credibility on subjects far removed from osteopathy.

I assume when you say you prefer osteopaths you mean for musculo-skeletal problems? For which many people do find their care superior. I would not recommend an osteopath for treatment of infectious disease, cardiac disease etc though, and I think a competent and conscientious osteopath would refer such cases....

[gunnyd]

Most of the "information" about soy being dangerous emanates from Joseph Mercola, an osteopath (and not a medical doctor as many people assume). I find him to be a highly questionable source, as his website often distorts data and is a for-profit commercial venture selling products.

Did you intend to disparage osteopaths here? My experience with both osteopaths and MDs is such that I far prefer the osteopaths. As far as any individual doctor goes, there are bad apples only out for more bucks in both fields. I thought the time of discrimination against osteopaths had long since ceased in the US. What is an Osteopath?

Have to agree with Cathy. My family goes to a D.O. for their primary care. Osteopaths are trained to treat their patients as a whole person, not a disease or a set of symptoms.

Like allopathic physicians (or M.D.s), osteopathic physicians complete 4 years of medical school and can choose to practice in any specialty of medicine. However, osteopathic physicians receive an additional 300 - 500 hours in the study of hands-on manual medicine and the body's musculoskeletal system.

Osteopathic medicine is dedicated to treating and healing the patient as a whole, rather than focusing on one system or body part. An osteopathic physician will often use a treatment method called osteopathic manipulative treatment (also called OMT or manipulation) -- a hands-on approach to make sure that the body is moving freely. This free motion ensures that all of your body's natural healing systems are able to work unhindered.

Osteopathic physicians hold to the principle that a patient's history of illness and physical trauma are written into the body's structure. The osteopathic physician's highly developed sense of touch allows the physician to feel (palpate) the patient's "living anatomy" (the flow of fluids, motion and texture of tissues, and structural makeup).

Like M.D.s, osteopathic physicians are licensed at the state level. Osteopathic physicians who wish to specialize may become "board certified" (in much the same manner as M.D.s) by completing a 2- to 6-year residency within the specialty area and passing the board certification exams.

D.O.s practice in all specialties of medicine, ranging from emergency medicine and cardiovascular surgery to psychiatry and geriatrics. A majority of osteopathic doctors use many of the medical and surgical treatments that are used by other medical doctors. -Medlineplus Medical Encyclopedia

This maybe only in the United States. But AFAIK all D.O.s complete the same training as M.D.s, then attend specialty training to become board certified in Osteopathy.

[cathyy]

This maybe only in the United States. But AFAIK all D.O.s complete the same training as M.D.s, then attend specialty training to become board certified in Osteopathy.

No, not quite the same training. They attend different graduate schools and get different degrees, although the medical training is the same. They aren't allopaths with board certification in osteopathy. They get a few extra classes the allopaths don't get in their medical school. They do their internships and residencies, and then practice, in the same hospitals as MDs now. Even the insurance companies don't object to paying for care from an osteopath. When I was a child they wouldn't cover it.

Most osteopaths practice primarily allopathic medicine, but from a slightly different, more wholistic viewpoint. I had an osteopath as my primary care physician for years, and he never had any problem diagnosing or treating me, including my diagnosis with type 2 diabetes. If I wanted manipulations, I had to see a chiropractor.

I didn't think you meant to be disparaging, Sheryl, it's not like you.

[zzaa09]

Soy....well it's eaten by the Chinese and Koreans but in nowhere near to huge amounts and they usually ferment it too(which reduces the negative effects). As it is a very controversial product

I would avoid it. Bored with cows milk? Since when do kids get bored with milk?

Are you sure you are not a troll? No matter.

Kids can handle milk because they have an enzyme that helps with lactose digestion - adults lose this.

By the way lettuce and greens will give an adult more calcium than milk.

Quite naive. Have a lot to learn, my friend.

[zzaa09]

Most research tends to view soy consumption in a positive light.

Personally I would be much more concerned with red meat consumption and the possible negative health effects of too much red meat in the diet than with any perceived problems with soy.

More and more research is coming out about the possible harmful effects of eating red meat too often.

Simple observations might show that such 'soy issues' are mostly prevelent in the West.

[BugJackBaron]

Most research tends to view soy consumption in a positive light.

Personally I would be much more concerned with red meat consumption and the possible negative health effects of too much red meat in the diet than with any perceived problems with soy.

More and more research is coming out about the possible harmful effects of eating red meat too often.

Simple observations might show that such 'soy issues' are mostly prevelent in the West.

It's not so simple. The east eats soy often in fermented form which may mitigate the negative effects. For example, Miso soup from Japan. Also the chinese or koreans don't eat soy the way we would eat bread. And certainly not as a substitute for milk(not traditionally anyways).

 The red meat  research is also tainted as it measures red meat plus carbohydrates - did you have fries with that Whopper? I thought so. This is a BIG confounding variable which is not eliminated in studies for a variety of reasons. Other factor include frying vs roasting or boiling. The Okinowa in Japan - one of the longest lived people do in fact eat pork soup. But it has been boiled for a long time. This may mitigate the effects of hormones in the meat. We know from pictures of Sitting Bull that the indians of North America were strong, tough, hard to kill - and did NOT eat cheerios for breakfast. Meat was the main staple of many tribes. 

 This is why I stayed out of this thread. There are too many vested interests to trust the "research" that comes out these days. I believe in high fat(no transfats! ) low protein and no carbs except from fruit. Eat natural.Avoid bread if possible and eat no or little rice.And soy is not on the shopping list. 

[wayfarer108]

The dangers of soya toxicity are hardly limited to Dr Mercola as any Google of soya toxicity will demonstrate, The latest research finds a positive correlation, rather than a negative one, between soya consumption and cancer rates.

Here's an article that summarises some of the issues but there appear to be literally hundreds of legitimate scientific studies around that conclude the consumption of unfermented soya is harmful in one way or another.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/...4055716,00.html

Cancer and brain damage links:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/aug/13/foodanddrink

For a partial list of original research studies (none by Mercola):

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/07abstract.htm

Edited July 29, 2009 by wayfarer108

[zzaa09]

Unfortunately, around 80 percent of soy is genetically modified, which can wreak havoc with your health and should be avoided at all costs.

http://doctormercola.com/2009/03/03/the-truth-about-soy/

80% of the Western grown soy.....

[Tolley]

I eat a fair bit of soy but always buy organic soy products.

I eat tempeh which is fermented and drink soy milk for over 20 years now.

Most research again points to positive benefits of eating soy products.

eg beneficial against prostate cancer and many other cancers as well.

I wouldn't eat the genetic modified variety