Ex-supremo Threatens Use Of Force If Pardon Blocked

[Mario2008]

Please refer to persons by their proper name. Further posts mentioning non-existing politicians will get deleted without further comment.

[Ferwert]

...i see someone rose to your challenge

what is your response?

Thank you Blackman....You are right...let me say this about that. I did not intend to debate or question any positive, constructive opinions about going forward with this huge citizen supplication. I'm just content to see some.

But you asked me about this one Blackman, so here goes.

Submitting this petition to a judicial entity was not its' intent. Keep in mind, pro-democracy red Shirt sensitivities to what they call the "judicial coup". This is not a citizen supplication of judicial institutions. Those institutions have some fence-mending to do with this large swath of Thai society.

But this is timekeepers suggestion. It is better than the others who essentially say the "citizens supplication" should be ignored. That is obviously one tact, but politically frought with peril....ya don't ignore 5.3 million people and additional supporters who did not sign the petition, without some sort of political fall-out.

[BlackJack]

This is like a merry go round with no respect for any rules.

If these guys cant write and adhere to a proper constitution / bill of rights (set in concrete and never changed)

then the country will continue on its merry go round.

[Chunkton]

Still nothing....the silence is deafening........The notion of composing a thoughtful, positive, politically do-able reponse to 5,4 million citizen supplicants seems just too much to expect...whatever made me think otherwise...silly me!

Why negotiate with TERRORISTS? Your model is wrong. Your side is not LEGITIMATE.

You think you can just snap your fingers and erase BLACK SONGKRAN? Has Thaksin even APOLOGIZED for that? He deserves NOTHING. He lost that right when he fled the country and became an outside revolutionary insurgent. Also, why should we even begin to believe these so called 5 million signatures on this illegal petition are REAL?

Jingthing perhaps you are living in a different time line to the rest of the world, as your recollection of events is an interesting interpretation to say the least. Yet it is at least a good example of how people can invent a fantasy and then actually start to believe it.

Taksin and his TRK and later PPP are the legitimate government. No doubt the Burmese feel just like you do about Aung San Suu Kyi, but it doesn't change the fact that unelected governments installed by the military are the illegitimate ones.

You might at least be taken seriously if you base your agruments on the facts, and I agree there is plenty of bad stuff to regurgitate about Taksin, so need need to depart from reality.

[Samuian]

If you keep picking at a sore it will never heal.

Right and who is

picking the sore

since and right now in all possible ways?

Who?

Who doesn't wanna let go... if this Government want to do things by the book, these things take time.

So he got more time to fight the frozen money case and prove that it is legally and rightful his!

Why does he avoid so carefully not to mentions that money in his :phone-ins" to his "beloved people"

for whom he "doing this all"?

Why?

Out of which reason is the Queens Birthday chosen to pass the petition on?

Why is Tahksin aiming at the highest Institution of the country,

why would he wish an uprising, as on Songkran?

[Crushdepth]

Former supreme commander General Chaiyasit Shinawatra yesterday threatened opponents of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra not to block the move to seek a Royal pardon for his cousin otherwise there could be use of force.

Like what? Another drunken red rampage? That worked so well last time.

[Thai at Heart]

The pot keeps bubbling and with statements such as this from a former supreme commander, it shows that the Thaksin issue is not going to go away anytime soon. Right or wrong there are a lot of people who do genuinely support him. I concur with the poster earlier is that the likelihood that there will be more civil unrest sometime soon. Whether it leads to bloodshed, no-one knows, but the failed attempt to up the anti around Songkran shows the tactics that are likely to be used.

This petition is a very clever tactic, even if it has little chance of succeeding in reality. It is a cheap and effective way to draw his supporters together and keep the pressure up on the government. How badly the whole establishment must wish that the Dems had decisively won the election after the coup when they had the chance, but alas they blew it.

Thaksin's rhetoric shows he isn't giving up anytime soon, and as for creative answers, they either let him back in and find a polite way to rehabilitate him but keep him out of politics forever or I fear there is a certain amount of inevitability that the people will probably come out on the streets again.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[RKASA]

Former supreme commander General Chaiyasit Shinawatra yesterday threatened opponents of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra not to block the move to seek a Royal pardon for his cousin otherwise there could be use of force.

Like what? Another drunken red rampage? That worked so well last time.

This is how some things get all spun up.  The only mention of threaten is by the writer.  Read the Shinawatra quote which said carefully it is only an opinion as to a possible outcome.  Does he mean he is going to lead it or even be a part, nothing like that is said in these quotes, but if you hate Thaksin you think so right away.  

If I said the same thing it would mean I feel some of the other party are that mad, but you can be sure I would not be any part of it.  I would not be happy if I was then quoted as making a threat.

Perhaps the writer would care to ask him directly if that is what he is saying.  If October is some kind of program date I want to get my flight booked.  

[blackman]

Thank you Blackman...

thank you for your answer

i am sure timekeeper will respond to it himself

however, if i may, i have a point to make in response to it

if this is an honest, genuine attempt to seek a pardon for Thaksin why is ''politically frought with peril''?

surely if its legitimate, then a high court that administrates the law and the series of procedures in Thailand to procure a pardon for a convicted felon will say so and allow it to proceed

it seems to me that you are suggesting that the court will interpret the law differently as the benefactor is such a high profile candidate

as if they would be working against the candidates interests in this matter

as i understand the law, it is case specific and is not open to any misinterpretation or variation

as such any ruling would have to be impartial, especially in this high profile case where any ruling will be deliberated over by legal experts.

so it should be safe to submit to a judicial body to decide if the petition is legitimate or not

after all despite Thaksins wishes, Abhisits possible preferences and all the red shirt supporters hopes and aspirations, the law is the law

its worked for generations of convicted criminals without a murmour from any political party or from any citizen.

surely that should be a sufficient to recognise the process is well administrated and an accepted part of Thailands culture

many have benefitted by the pardon process,have been shown leniency and have had long sentences commuted by the benefactors good grace

this has been a process that has been celebrated in the past

do you think its right that this process should be brought into disrepute by a political faction?

[WAERTH]

This is how some things get all spun up.  The only mention of threaten is by the writer.  Read the Shinawatra quote which said carefully it is only an opinion as to a possible outcome.  Does he mean he is going to lead it or even be a part, nothing like that is said in these quotes, but if you hate Thaksin you think so right away.  

Got nothing to do with hating Thaksin, but everything to do with understanding Thai culture (and many other East-Asian cultures for that matter).

A straight answer is never ever given. People in this part of the world speak in possibilities and metaphors to hide what they really want to say. Learn to listen when a Poo-Yai speaks. They will always hide their intent and what they want to do in metaphors and possibilities. It is up to the listener to distill the answer. They do it this way so many possibilities stay open and no one can come back to them and say ... but you said this. They can than answer you misunderstood what I said. This way they avoid loosing face.

You cannot treat what a Thai says the same way as when someone from back home tells you something. Totally different cultures! Learn to listen between the sentences and learn Thai traditional sayings ... (speak like snake fish)

Waerth

[Jingthing]

To the little Thaksin lovers don't start asking about constructive bla-bla, since you are just trying to divert people from seeing the bloody side of your super-rich employer!

Post 98. You NAILED IT. You don't negotiate with violent players like that. Unfortunately Abhisit clearly doesn't have the cajones (and support) to do what needs to be done with violent players like that.

[animatic]

Simple constructive solution.

Pardon Thaksin for Rachadapisek.

He comes home,

but will have to fight all the OTHER cases awaiting.

He won't like that, they haven't asked for a blanket pardon for all Thaksin's charges.

A rather stupid omission on their part.

And since he jumped bail, the pardon doesn't cover that,

so he can serve a sentence for that and be transported to court dates directly

and not avoid them as a prisoner has no say.

But that of course comes back to him not fitting the

time honored criteria of pardons by the highest chair.

And the Office can have the names checked.

And even then who is going to dare to tell a certain person what to do?

Thaksin is happier as an avant-guarde artisté, he works best at De-Construction.

[venturalaw]

Another point was Thaksin had been shuffling HIS men into key posts

and CHANGING the army reshuffle lists at least TWICE to fit this end over army objections.

His military class was almost up to the trough, but he jumped the gun.

Ego run amok and hubris of winning re-election went to his head.

Thaksin left the SOE and attempts at busting up PAD to Samak and Somchai. Not having a choice.

But STILL, he tried the same thing with likely the same thugs... but he AGAIN miscalculated...

He seems to do THAT a lot...

Both plans went tit's up, viewed on the world stage this time,

and will be dragging more of the Thaksin police and other cronies down with them soon enough.

His next major move after retooling his street army and hyping them up was Songkran.

Oops more fish floating on their sides and HE exposed his duplicity GRANDLY on the world stage,

and his world grew smaller and more third world.

His maneuvering has done more to bring Thailand lower, in world opinion and tourism activity,

than ANY other cause including the world recession. He isn't gonna save Thailand,

but dig it a third world hole for decades to come.

I will still love it here,

but feel so sad for the lovely Thai people having to suffer through him.

Even the delusional ones still living in a make-believe world view he created and sold them.

And now to top it all off, he attempts to submit a request for a Royal Pardon when he has failed to fulfill the requirements - serving part of the sentence for the crime that he has been convicted, and, even more unlikely for him, expressing remorse. I believe it was raised in another thread that this latest ploy (the pardon request) is, in and of itself, an insult to the Monarchy due to the blatant failure to comply with the requirements for submission. If there is some way he is able to make it back into power, it would be quite amazing.

[Richard W]

Thaksin (spelling corrected from quite to avoid deletion) and his TRT (non-existent party name TRK corrected to TRT for same reason) and later PPP are the legitimate government.

T + TRT had been reduced to caretake status by the time of the coup. If the PPP was the legitimate government, then now so is the Democrat-led coalition.

I'm not convinced that the PPP government was legitimate, thugh at the time it was formed, an anti-T coalition would have had too fragile a majority. Now, instead of a pro-T governement propped up by avowedly anti-T votes, we have an anti-T government propped up by allegedly pro-T votes. This would seem to be a bit more legitimate.

[zzaa09]

I smell civil war... sounds like "Armageddon" or is it simply saber rattling? I hope for the latter for the sake of this country!

Any civil conflict will certainly be limited to the large populations centres....as history dictates.

[zzaa09]

They already tried using force during Songkran and failed miserably.

This is more serious ,

he is implying calling in his army subordinate chips...

not more street violence alone....

adding renagade army units still loyal to him... he hopes

Yes bullys for sure.

1973. 1976. 1992.

[animatic]

To the little Thaksin lovers don't start asking about constructive bla-bla, since you are just trying to divert people from seeing the bloody side of your super-rich employer!

Post 98. You NAILED IT. You don't negotiate with violent players like that. Unfortunately Abhisit clearly doesn't have the cajones (and support) to do what needs to be done with violent players like that.

But we know who does...

And they will act on that behalf in defense of the Thai people's love.

And one of the earliest acts will be to definitively lock up most ringleaders; rain or shine.

No bail, and likely martial law with good reason. A headless snake bites no one.

Insurrection is not a plaything for a rich dilettante egomaniac.

Thaksin may start it, but it's pretty clear that stern forces are arrayed against this

because the clock is ticking and this MUST be cleaned up in time.

Hail Mary, Full of Shinola... or is that Shinawatra. Pass the bile please.

Edited August 2, 2009 by animatic

[RKASA]

Why does someone not just ask him for a press release and ask the ?'s straight out.  If this is what he means by all his words then I am sure he would be happy to clarify any ?'s (warning the fore mention was sarcasm)..  Or be forced to lie ether way its a winner.

At least it is only now an implied threat,  and no longer like a direct threat so were making progress toward piece all the time.   

I think there may be a lot of ego driving both sides and one is not going to be much better then the other in the end.  Its punt time i.e.  

Where  do we look to find the real statesman that will be different and lead the way out of the darkness.  

Burma with the help of North Korea is building a bomb next door, should be ready for testing in your backyard by 2014,  its time for the soups to end and get back to work, that means both sides need to recall they are brothers and sisters, because that is going to get pretty important real soon.

[Publicus]

Thaksin does display terrible judgment and he does so repeatedly.

Whether it's the Elite Card or the failed attempt to impose a national State of Emergency which backfired so severely Thaksin lost his office, the guy regularly exercises horrendous judgement.

There's been a lot of discussion this year of how Thaksin seems to have clearly lost it.Thaksin has been a man without a country for a year now or more. That would weigh heavily on anyone.

Thaksin brought his cousin to the Supreme Commander position from an inactive post and a lot of rapid promotions, so hopefully the "Ex-supremo" doesn't carry too much weight with the troops even if the troops are from the poorer sections of Thailand and have parents who may have signed the petition.

[Thai at Heart]

Thaksin does display terrible judgment and he does so repeatedly.

Whether it's the Elite Card or the failed attempt to impose a national State of Emergency which backfired so severely Thaksin lost his office, the guy regularly exercises horrendous judgement.

There's been a lot of discussion this year of how Thaksin seems to have clearly lost it.Thaksin has been a man without a country for a year now or more. That would weigh heavily on anyone.

Thaksin brought his cousin to the Supreme Commander position from an inactive post and a lot of rapid promotions, so hopefully the "Ex-supremo" doesn't carry too much weight with the troops even if the troops are from the poorer sections of Thailand and have parents who may have signed the petition.

He exhibits decision making to match the environment in which he was created. He was CEO of an effective government granted monopoly for 15 years, and probably never had anyone propose any alternative to his way. He bought his way into the PM job. He had to buy his share of people to get where he did, but what they never realised is that he thought he was omniscient and omnipotent in his own little world. Wealth and power in Thailand can only be created if it is done within the existing structures/rules. In a way, the system created a monster and people are trying to slay it once and for all.

What he never realised is that there are certain rules, ways and systems in business and society here that have to be adhered to, and forgot that in essence he only got where he did because enough people approved of him whilst he made his money and played the game. It only took a few people to turn their back and tittle tattle about what they thought he was up to behind the scenes and many of his allies turned their backs.

He stepped outside the normal rules and also forgot to feed all the hands he needed to secure his position.

[animatic]

Thaksin does display terrible judgment and he does so repeatedly.

Whether it's the Elite Card or the failed attempt to impose a national State of Emergency which backfired so severely Thaksin lost his office, the guy regularly exercises horrendous judgement.

There's been a lot of discussion this year of how Thaksin seems to have clearly lost it.Thaksin has been a man without a country for a year now or more. That would weigh heavily on anyone.

Thaksin brought his cousin to the Supreme Commander position from an inactive post and a lot of rapid promotions, so hopefully the "Ex-supremo" doesn't carry too much weight with the troops even if the troops are from the poorer sections of Thailand and have parents who may have signed the petition.

He exhibits decision making to match the environment in which he was created. He was CEO of an effective government granted monopoly for 15 years, and probably never had anyone propose any alternative to his way. He bought his way into the PM job. He had to buy his share of people to get where he did, but what they never realised is that he thought he was omniscient and omnipotent in his own little world. Wealth and power in Thailand can only be created if it is done within the existing structures/rules. In a way, the system created a monster and people are trying to slay it once and for all.

What he never realised is that there are certain rules, ways and systems in business and society here that have to be adhered to, and forgot that in essence he only got where he did because enough people approved of him whilst he made his money and played the game. It only took a few people to turn their back and tittle tattle about what they thought he was up to behind the scenes and many of his allies turned their backs.

He stepped outside the normal rules and also forgot to feed all the hands he needed to secure his position.

He is a classic example of an amoral personality.

He doesn't think those rules apply to him.

I have had the misfortune of knowing a few of these types up close.

They hide it well for a time, but then their compulsive lies and manipulations unravel inexorably.

When he gets what he wants, and someone is not useful to him anymore,

or just disagrees with him and does their own thing, he slaps their face and takes back

their access to the trough or worse. This is why so many former business partners

and political partners have become implacable enemies.

This explains Sondhi all too well. He made Thaksin a HUGE pile of money as a senior partner,

pre-97, but then Thaksin saw him as competition in telecom and satellite businesses and made to

ruin him as much as possible coming up to and during the crash. Didn't succeed too well,

because he just created an implacable, media savvy enemy for life. Smooth T, very smooth!

And this history would obviously not please the military,

because soldiers don't just get a slap, they get shot.

Edited August 2, 2009 by animatic

[Publicus]

To develop the point further, Thaksin is a guy who lives by his own rules which prima facie might seem odd given he's a former police officer but Thaksin was a cop not only because it gave him authority, but because it gave him authority to abuse.

Thaksin also is a guy who is certain that he makes history rather than 'only' lives history and that he's going to remake his native country Thailand to suit him. There are many such people in history, more recently those who are respected for their vision, e.g., Nelson Mandella and those who are well known madmen such as Adolph Hitler.

I could say more but I needn't.

[PoorSucker]

To develop the point further, Thaksin is a guy who lives by his own rules which prima facie might seem odd given he's a former police officer but Thaksin was a cop not only because it gave him authority, but because it gave him authority to abuse.

Thaksin also is a guy who is certain that he makes history rather than 'only' lives history and that he's going to remake his native country Thailand to suit him. There are many such people in history, more recently those who are respected for their vision, e.g., Nelson Mandella and those who are well known madmen such as Adolph Hitler.

I could say more but I needn't.

Thaksin likes to compare himself to Nelson Mandela, Mother Teresa, Aung San Suu Kyi, Gandhi, or some other of his absurd analogies.

[Insight]

Thaksin does display terrible judgment and he does so repeatedly.

Whether it's the Elite Card or the failed attempt to impose a national State of Emergency which backfired so severely Thaksin lost his office, the guy regularly exercises horrendous judgement.

There's been a lot of discussion this year of how Thaksin seems to have clearly lost it.Thaksin has been a man without a country for a year now or more. That would weigh heavily on anyone.

Thaksin brought his cousin to the Supreme Commander position from an inactive post and a lot of rapid promotions, so hopefully the "Ex-supremo" doesn't carry too much weight with the troops even if the troops are from the poorer sections of Thailand and have parents who may have signed the petition.

He exhibits decision making to match the environment in which he was created. He was CEO of an effective government granted monopoly for 15 years, and probably never had anyone propose any alternative to his way. He bought his way into the PM job. He had to buy his share of people to get where he did, but what they never realised is that he thought he was omniscient and omnipotent in his own little world. Wealth and power in Thailand can only be created if it is done within the existing structures/rules. In a way, the system created a monster and people are trying to slay it once and for all.

What he never realised is that there are certain rules, ways and systems in business and society here that have to be adhered to, and forgot that in essence he only got where he did because enough people approved of him whilst he made his money and played the game. It only took a few people to turn their back and tittle tattle about what they thought he was up to behind the scenes and many of his allies turned their backs.

He stepped outside the normal rules and also forgot to feed all the hands he needed to secure his position.

It was more than feeding the hands, as you put it.

The real "arai wa" moment was the sale of AIS to Temasek and subsequent bragging. This is when his more clued in supporters turned against him.

People are only too quick to harp on about how he lost his position due to upsetting the "elite" - this is casting aside the masses of people that repeatedly rallied against him in Bangkok who were first compelled to join the rallies because of this reason.

Now perhaps if he would show is face court proceedings on the sale can get under way.

[EndofDays]

'reconciliation' = bring one man back into power and save the 2b $ he obviously is going to lose!

in order to achieve "reconciliation" they even threat to use force

What a disgrace! I am speechless. All these "events" remind me on something which took place

in history and happend some 70y ago in a German speaking country...

Hitler was not elected by a majority of the people.

[aazA]

....for his remark he should be court marshalled for treason!

turning things as his cousin does, creates the divide,

there is no divide, they wish there would be one!

Day by day, he, through is actions unveils his real intentions:

"all or nothing"!

Can anyone imagine how this nutter will turn revengeful if he ever gets it his way..?

He doesn't stop at anything now, what should stop him (if ever) being back into power?

I don't understand how anyone can support this mega-egomaniac or see any good

in his support movement of the red-short punks?

Unless someone supports cronyism, nepotism, corruption and dictatorship....and the rule of the fist.

And using "the people" for their dirty tricks, "my people, if they want me.... "

well this is the wedge he tries to drive, between him and his opponents, well I am speechless!

Spot on

[animatic]

Thaksin does display terrible judgment and he does so repeatedly.

Whether it's the Elite Card or the failed attempt to impose a national State of Emergency which backfired so severely Thaksin lost his office, the guy regularly exercises horrendous judgement.

There's been a lot of discussion this year of how Thaksin seems to have clearly lost it.Thaksin has been a man without a country for a year now or more. That would weigh heavily on anyone.

Thaksin brought his cousin to the Supreme Commander position from an inactive post and a lot of rapid promotions, so hopefully the "Ex-supremo" doesn't carry too much weight with the troops even if the troops are from the poorer sections of Thailand and have parents who may have signed the petition.

He exhibits decision making to match the environment in which he was created. He was CEO of an effective government granted monopoly for 15 years, and probably never had anyone propose any alternative to his way. He bought his way into the PM job. He had to buy his share of people to get where he did, but what they never realised is that he thought he was omniscient and omnipotent in his own little world. Wealth and power in Thailand can only be created if it is done within the existing structures/rules. In a way, the system created a monster and people are trying to slay it once and for all.

What he never realised is that there are certain rules, ways and systems in business and society here that have to be adhered to, and forgot that in essence he only got where he did because enough people approved of him whilst he made his money and played the game. It only took a few people to turn their back and tittle tattle about what they thought he was up to behind the scenes and many of his allies turned their backs.

He stepped outside the normal rules and also forgot to feed all the hands he needed to secure his position.

It was more than feeding the hands, as you put it.

The real "arai wa" moment was the sale of AIS to Temasek and subsequent bragging. This is when his more clued in supporters turned against him.

People are only too quick to harp on about how he lost his position due to upsetting the "elite" - this is casting aside the masses of people that repeatedly rallied against him in Bangkok who were first compelled to join the rallies because of this reason.

Now perhaps if he would show is face court proceedings on the sale can get under way.

Oh I am sure this was happening before that,

it's just with Temasek it gave them ALL a point so badly and barefacedly done,

that all could rally around and light the torches to send him off.

There were more than enough taking the cash while gritting their teeth

and waiting for his comeuppance.

Edited August 2, 2009 by animatic

[EndofDays]

See what I mean - Nothing.

Because that is what your illegal petition is worth: NOTHING.

Why would a legit government give a criminal fugitive insurgent violent revolutionary ANYTHING except prison time? Fugitives don't have bargaining power.

How can a petition be illegal?

[animatic]

'reconciliation' = bring one man back into power and save the 2b $ he obviously is going to lose!

in order to achieve "reconciliation" they even threat to use force

What a disgrace! I am speechless. All these "events" remind me on something which took place

in history and happend some 70y ago in a German speaking country...

Hitler was not elected by a majority of the people.

In the presidential election held on March 13, 1932, there were four candidates:

the incumbent, Field Marshall Paul von Hindenburg, Hitler,

and two minor candidates, Ernst Thaelmann and Theodore Duesterberg.

The results were:

Hindenburg 49.6 percent

Hitler 30.1 percent

Thaelmann 13.2 percent

Duesterberg 6.8 percent

Since Hindenberg had not received a majority of the vote, however, a runoff election had to be held among the top three vote-getters. On April 19, 1932, the runoff results were:

Hindenburg 53.0 percent

Hitler 36.8 percent

Thaelmann 10.2 percent

On June 1, 1932, Hindenberg appointed Franz von Papen as chancellor of Germany,

whom Shirer described as an “unexpected and ludicrous figure.”

Papen immediately dissolved the Reichstag (the national congress)

and called for new elections, the third legislative election in five months.

Hitler and his fellow members of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party,

who were determined to bring down the republic and establish dictatorial rule in Germany,

did everything they could to create chaos in the streets,

including initiating political violence and murder.

The situation got so bad that martial law was proclaimed in Berlin.

Sound familiar to todays shenanigans?

Political deadlocks in the Reichstag soon brought a new election,

this one in November 6, 1932. In that election, the Nazis lost two million votes

and 34 seats. Thus, even though the National Socialist Party was still the

largest political party, it had clearly lost ground among the voters.

Attempting to remedy the chaos and the deadlocks,

Hindenburg fired Papen and appointed an army general named

Kurt von Schleicher as the new German chancellor.

Unable to secure a majority coalition in the Reichstag,

however, Schleicher finally tendered his resignation to

Hindenburg, 57 days after he had been appointed.

On January 30, 1933, President Hindenburg appointed Adolf Hitler chancellor of Germany.

Although the National Socialists never captured more than 37 percent of the national vote,

and even though they still held a minority of cabinet posts and fewer than 50 percent of the seats

in the Reichstag, Hitler and the Nazis set out to to consolidate their power.

With Hitler as chancellor, that proved to be a fairly easy task.

~The Reichstag fire

Why would Hitler and his associates turn a blind eye to an impending terrorist attack

on their national congressional building or actually assist with such a horrific deed?

Because they knew what government officials have known throughout history —

that during extreme national emergencies, people are most scared

and thus much more willing to surrender their liberties in return for “security.”

And that’s exactly what happened during the Reichstag terrorist crisis.

Suspending civil liberties

The day after the fire, Hitler persuaded President Hindenburg to issue a decree entitled,

“For the Protection of the People and the State.” Justified as a “defensive measure against

Communist acts of violence endangering the state,”

the decree suspended the constitutional guarantees pertaining to civil liberties:

Restrictions on personal liberty, on the right of free expression of opinion,

including freedom of the press; on the rights of assembly and association;

and violations of the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications;

and warrants for house searches, orders for confiscations as well as

restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed.

Two weeks after the Reichstag fire,

Hitler requested the Reichstag to temporarily delegate its powers to him so that he could

adequately deal with the crisis. Denouncing opponents to his request, Hitler shouted,

“Germany will be free, but not through you!”

When the vote was taken, the result was 441 for and 84 against,

giving Hitler the two-thirds majority he needed to suspend the German constitution.

On March 23, 1933, what has gone down in German history as the “Enabling Act”

made Hitler dictator of Germany, freed of all legislative and constitutional constraints.

The judiciary under Hitler

One of the most dramatic consequences was in the judicial arena. Shirer points out,

Under the Weimar Constitution judges were independent,

subject only to the law, protected from arbitrary removal and bound

at least in theory by Article 109 to safeguard equality before the law.

In fact, in the Reichstag terrorist case, while the court convicted van der Lubbe of the crime

(who was executed), three other defendants, all communists, were acquitted,

which infuriated Hitler and Goering. Within a month, the Nazis had transferred jurisdiction

over treason cases from the Supreme Court to a new People’s Court, which, as Shirer points out,

Soon became the most dreaded tribunal in the land.

It consisted of two professional judges and five others chosen from among party officials,

the S.S. and the armed forces, thus giving the latter a majority vote.

There was no appeal from its decisions or sentences and usually its sessions were held in camera.

Occasionally, however, for propaganda purposes when relatively light sentences were to be given,

the foreign correspondents were invited to attend.

The overwhelming majority of Germans did not seem to mind that their personal freedom

had been taken away, that so much of culture had been destroyed and replaced with a mindless barbarism,

or that their life and work had become regimented to a degree never before experienced even by a people

accustomed for generations to a great deal of regimentation.... The Nazi terror in the early years affected

the lives of relatively few Germans and a newly arrived observer was somewhat surprised to see that the

people of this country did not seem to feel that they were being cowed.... On the contrary, they supported it

with genuine enthusiasm. Somehow it imbued them with a new hope and a new confidence and an astonishing

faith in the future of their country.

Sounds too close to home...

Edited August 2, 2009 by animatic

[EndofDays]

as to this petition, regardless of your shirt colour, you should recognise that its disrespectful to the monarchy of the past and to the present.

the instigators should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for starting it

They have no shame.

They have no respect.

All they have is the threat of BLOODSHED. Don't play into their games.

they have fallen into a hate spiral,

A reality spiral more like it. You can't reason with the insane. Give them an arm and they will destroy this country. Chamberlain tried that with Hitler.

I shutting down the airport and stranding hundreds of thousands of tourists illegal? Is attacking anybody with a different color shirt leaving or entering the airport illegal? I guess not.