Foreigners Taking Over Land In North Thailand, Claims Farmers' Group

[thaibkk]

what a nice xenophobic country this is where farang is only good as walking ATM machine but can hardly own anything as land / house

thai should be forbidden to own land/house in other countries also... but 99,99% is poor and cannot afford to buy a house in our home countries, maybe that is the point of all this

[Heng]

Fair is fair. If you don't want to get taken over, DON'T SELL.

If you don't want to get taken over, DON'T RENT or LEASE.

I wonder where all the money goes as it is still impossible to get the land on the foreigners name.

So there must be some Thais involved....

Don't rent or lease? Leasing land and property to others is the way to go. These folks always go away eventually, and you use their capital to acquire more property. It's a time tested formula since the dawn of time.

[ray23]

Just a question I know it i illegal to own land. But, is it illegal to rent land?

You know is under the this thought process I might be guilty. The housekeeper has land plants rice that I buy for her. In turn we we get rice for the year. To be honest it would be a heck of a lot cheaper to just buy the rice since I pay her her salary while she doing the work on the rice. She has been with us for three years and her family is more like family to us.

I had been saving work at my house for someone who really needed it. I just stopped off to see the job superintendent if he knew of anyone who needed work. Almost fell off the bike when he said he wanted it. Our house keeper knock down 1500 baht a week and her husband works in Construction and she has been selling her gold to get buy back to keep her bike from being taken back. I loaned her 5K yesterday. I'm not worried about it she has been with us for three years, borrowed before an paid it back. Hired the neighbor across the street to teach me to read Thai, he was the General Manager of a local factory

This is the first time I have seen people hurting in Udon, that normally have plenty of money to get by. Not so sure now that the real story is getting out.

Under the current thought process I guess I'm one of those evil guys.

There is no doubt in my mind that large corporations are controlling land in this country. But, throwing a blanket over everyone probably isn't the best approach. Those companies could not do what they are doing without the help of Thai citizens. So a Thai benefits or this would not be happening. I think everyone is running sacred these days and this is just an over reaction.

[Paddleshifter]

This thread dont need to be taken very seriously.

Its just someone who didnt get foothold up north and who was lucky to shine and whine a little in the media.

Many thais did not get foothold or are struggeling to get their lifes going though but that you can blame on the thai government which are holding their people down for various reasons. The people who controls this country have no intensions to bring the thais up to a very high educated level. What a mess that would become for the people i charge now and controling the cash flow!!

Thailand will probably deal with its corruption like North Korea deals with its communism..

In other words, not in the very near future.

[MyphuketLife]

There really seems to be a lot of anti-foreign sentiment lately. More than usual, that's for sure.

And as exports and tourism continue to fall in this country, the level of anti-foreign will only get worse.

[NanLaew]

Somewhere round about page 3, people started realizing that the report was about foreigners, not farangs.

I have to chuckle at these farangs who take everything so personally. If they would just stop to consider that their numbers are just not that significant in the great scheme of things. They are less than a minority here and this government isn't going to take away your little bit of paradise... your wife might, but not the government. Then the old chestnut 'never invest more than you can afford to walk away from' always applies. BTW, if jboras has held to this tenet, then I reckon he has more money than Thak... I won't say it. It just gets people upset.

If your feeling of discrimination is so bad, maybe you shouldn't have used blue tiles on the roof of your house?

It's not racism, it's not culturalism, it's not xenophobia. It's just ugly nationalism. The fact that the Thai nation never really had to fight or defend itself has probably a lot to do with how they see any foreign influences, be it alleged purchases of agricultural land by multinationals or petty squabbles about some ruined ancient temple. When you have a less than stellar history of taking the path of least resistance and selling to the highest bidder, this fierce nationalism covers up a lot a shame. It's relevance only appears to be enhanced by this current yellow versus red, royalist versus republican quagmire. It's been a few years since the regal slap on the wrist has been administered and 'business as usual' status quo maintained. Accordingly, nobody really knows how far they can push it these days.

It will all be sorted out after the civil war.

[Heng]

Karma is a huge thing and the way Thailand treats it's farangs and expats, oh well.

Reliance / believing in karma a bit much is what lost the native Thais their lands to the Thai Chinese and Thai Indians in the first place. You have to put in the effort as well.

[geriatrickid]

It is a legitimate concern. And the Chinese are indeed a threat to national security. Why is anyone surprised? Investment in foreign resources and land is a prime directive of the Chinese government. To not see the creeping presence of Chinese investment is to be oblivious to investment trends of the last decade. China has been on a buying binge in western countries buying up resource companies. It has done the same in its neighbours as has been pointed out in this thread.

China need not go to war anymore when it can readily buy assets. It is obtaining the necessary resources and financial flows through economic absorption. The USA is now so much in debt to China, that the Chinese can flex their economic might and cause serious pain in the U.S. The typical Americans is clueless as to the amount of debt held by China. The typical Thai is also clueless as to the influence China has on the Thai economy. Thailand isn't in the same predicament as the USA yet, but as Thailand looks to the Chinese for investments and financing of infrastructure, Thais should indeed be concerned.

The Chinese unlike western investors have no time for niceties like environmental impact studies or fair employment standards. Eventually, someone will realize that the western farang investors aren't so bad after all. If anyone needs an example of how China deals with competition one need only look to the Rio Tinto activity.

Edited August 13, 2009 by geriatrickid

[Britannia]

Thai culture, belongs to me! jai dee, belongs to me, Jai dee, most certainly in hindu and budhisem the land was here before you were born and shall still be here when you are long dead, how can it belong to you or me

[mizzi39]

And we all know that hotels and resorts are built on prime farming land!

And if farmers are renting land, and I mean IF, then that must be with the consent of the farmer right? I'm sure we would have heard by now if poor old Somchai was being coerced by nasty farang into leasing out his land.

Foreigners benefiting from government handouts and assistance programmes.....AS IF!!!

Foreigners exploiting Thai soil, very emotive language there, I wonder who they vote for?

And the poor old farmers have to encroach on forest land because they were cheated in some way to rent out their own land to the nasty farang.

Xenophobic racist ranting at it's worst.

Agree!

[mizzi39]

And we all know that hotels and resorts are built on prime farming land!

And if farmers are renting land, and I mean IF, then that must be with the consent of the farmer right? I'm sure we would have heard by now if poor old Somchai was being coerced by nasty farang into leasing out his land.

Foreigners benefiting from government handouts and assistance programmes.....AS IF!!!

Foreigners exploiting Thai soil, very emotive language there, I wonder who they vote for?

And the poor old farmers have to encroach on forest land because they were cheated in some way to rent out their own land to the nasty farang.

Xenophobic racist ranting at it's worst.

Agree!

[Thai at Heart]

A rather quick retort from the Bangkok Post Opinions section.

http://bangkokpost.net/opinion/opinion/219...eign-scapegoats

Stop hunting for 'foreign' scapegoats

Writer: Sanitsuda Ekacai

Published: 13/08/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

It is one thing to nurse concern for small-scale farmers. It is another thing, however, to make foreigners the scapegoats. For the so-called backbone of the country, the lack of farmland indeed poses a serious problem to Thai farmers, who are also struggling with indebtedness from the high cost of farm investment amid chronically low prices

[elektrified]

My question is this, How does the person who wrote this article and the Thai Government suppose Farangs are to care for their wives, children and extended families, if we are unable to buy homes and land to provide for them? Thailand is good about advertising to the Farang about how nice it is to retire there with a Thai wife, but don't stay or buy land, just bring or send money and spend it here. Thai women like living in Thailand and do nt want to move, but I for one will quickly divorce if these two things happen. 1.) not allowed to provide home and land for my family, 2.) my wife does not get a visa to join me in my home country. I will not be one to send money freely and only get to be with my wife 15 - 30 days a year.

Farangs are not allowed to own land in Thailand. That is the law. I have never seen an advertisement encouraging farangs to "take a Thai wife and retire in Thailand." If you don't have assets or business interests in your home country that you can live off of, then get a work permit and get a job or start a business in Thailand.

[ebroguy]

Interesting thread, and full of articulate comments. For me, it's just reiterated the fact that I need to move somewhere else. Thailand (and in my case, Phuket), has been enjoyable, but the atmosphere, attitude, etc, I'm seriously not feeling comfortable anymore.

Not sure about anyone else, but as I love the Asian culture, think I need to move to Malaysia. No, not the 'scene' of Pattaya/Phuket, but at least there is a culture of honesty and respect, that no longer seems to exist anywhere in Thailand any more.

Or maybe Cambodia where a foreigner can legally work , A one year business visa is $25 and they are doing a lot down there to encourage tourism , certainly one place I will be looking into further in the very near future

If they don't want the ' Falang' here then let's all p**s off and see who they can con , rip off and complain about then , Thailand is no longer the ' favourable ' destination for falangs .

ebroguy

[dale8]

Hello, many times the foreign husbands need a large place to care for the sick buffalo the Thai wives have. This is a way to preserve the Thai culture and to use the buffalo manure for organic farming so that it is good for the environment. Cheers.

[hammered]

A rather quick retort from the Bangkok Post Opinions section.

http://bangkokpost.net/opinion/opinion/219...eign-scapegoats

Stop hunting for 'foreign' scapegoats

Writer: Sanitsuda Ekacai

Published: 13/08/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

It is one thing to nurse concern for small-scale farmers. It is another thing, however, to make foreigners the scapegoats. For the so-called backbone of the country, the lack of farmland indeed poses a serious problem to Thai farmers, who are also struggling with indebtedness from the high cost of farm investment amid chronically low prices

Good article that touches on the real issues of big industry.

Interestingly right now a lot of land is also up for rent that is always competed for between big tree growing concerns and poor farmers. The tree dudes have always won out to rent and ruin in the past. It would be a good time for the government to step into this issue if they want to address their upcountry popualarity even if it would upset Newin and some other allies. It would also sens some PTP barons into some kind of temprary insanity

Lots of rural issues to be addressed and ones that if anyone really did they could become more popular than Thaksin with the poor (and more unpopular with the old old rich)

[Thai at Heart]

In my humble opinion the "Foreigner" bogeyman only gets thrown up in the papers this often and this vociferously for 3 reasons.

a. The situation in the country has gone so completely to s**t in the eyes of the ruling party that they need a simple story that the country can get behind.

Therefore, expect some really bad numbers or a large economic shock coming.

b. Someone is privately considering land reform and some very important companies/families have got wind of it and are rolling out the propaganda machine.

Therefore, expect it to go away in the near term after the requisite non-investigation

c. A member of the current government coalition has a business proposal from a large MNC or government for FDI that is sitting on the table somewhere which needs a reform of the land law.

It depends entirely on the power of that given individual and his ability to buy off enough people to get the necessary law change.

[Padrino]

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

I do find it funny when the Thais complain to their third generation Chinese bosses in Bangkok how the foreigners that married a Thai woman are stealing their countries wealth...

They never seem to have a go at the Chinese, pretty much every rich Thai I have come across is half Chinese, Chinese or married to a Chinese person.............seems like the further the economy falls the more anti farang feeling there is.

[lannarebirth]

Whatever became of that Thaksin proposal to give 100,000 rai in Chiang Rai to the Chinese? I think it was approved but haven't heard much since.

[Jonathanpattaya]

Foreigners taking over land in North, claims farmers' group

CHIANG MAI: -- Vast tracts of land in the North are now in the hands of foreigners, mostly through marriages to Thai women, a local farmers' group said yesterday.

Most of the land has been used for hotels and resorts put under the names of their wives, said Samarn Thadthieng, head of a group of farmers based in the Kuang River Basin in Chiang Mai and Lamphun. Plus, he said, there is an estate covering around 100 rai that only foreigners can rent.

He added that a large number of farmers also rented their farms to foreigners, and received payment in the form of rice instead of cash. In addition, he said, foreigners were also benefiting from the government's price-intervention scheme and were being given free rice seeds through other assistance programmes.

"This is dangerous, because these foreigners will turn from renters into beneficiaries exploiting Thai soil, sending remittances overseas and damaging the country's economy," he added.

He said government budgets were now being spent to benefit these foreigners instead of poor farmers, and those who have rented their land on a long-term basis to foreigners, end up encroaching on forests to obtain new land for themselves.

He called on the government and local administrative bodies to look into the matter.

In Chiang Rai, chief of a palm oil cooperative Inkham Namwong claimed that around 70 per cent of farmland and plantation in the province had been rented to foreigners. He said he was waiting for government funds to help set up a new cooperative that would help Thai farmers compete against foreign-owned palm plantations.

-- The Nation 2009-08-12

What a load of absolute rubbish!

[lannarebirth]

Whatever became of that Thaksin proposal to give 100,000 rai in Chiang Rai to the Chinese? I think it was approved but haven't heard much since.

Ah, the 3rd article answers my question:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...fore-retirement

[honoluludave]

There is a pretty good editorial in the opinion section of the online version of the Bangkok Post. It makes some good points and worth the read

[Britannia]

Thailand is a racist Nation always been, they want foreigners to leave money here and go away.

Historically in Thailand they start with gray market stuff, big bikes, yacht, boats, import cars etc.

Then they start chasing land, owned by Thai wife illegal unless she can prove all the money came from her own funding etc. Business owning land for foreigners etc. They reclaim all that.

Then clamp down on work permits and more visa shit again.

Funny part is there is less tourists to milk cash from now than in 49 years of history, Thailand is hardest hit together with South Africa in Expats moving away the last year. Virtually no foreign investment in new factories and businesses.

So for the remaining lot of us expect more shit hitting the fan.

The disturbing part is, if you are a Thai national going to a Western nation you may buy land, business ownership outright and all the benefits the Nation has to offer, here no way.

Also due to the skin colour of westerners they get hit hardest every time, however the foreigners they have problems with taking over, take jobs, land etc. is and has always been majority Asians. 90% of the Westerners follow the rules here, and how many Western expats live here? So we're talking about a very small number of people pushing the envelope.

They estimate 70% of all land is owned by Chinese, over 250,000,- Illegal Burmese workers, over 200,000,- Illegal Cambodian workers, Around a 100,000,- Laotians. Very high rate of Indians business takeovers and immigration. But every time they aim at foreigners they aim at falang who there are perhaps a few thousand who do not follow the rules. Many falangs who live here are retired or work offhsore, pulling in a steady stream of foreign currency into the country and securing a lot of jobs here. Another big group is business investors, or management for foreign corporations in BOI zones, they keep loads of Thai's employed, pull in currency needed and contribute to the society and get nothing back for it. Other runs small export outlets and so on... Are there falangs who is running around breaking laws yes there is, but is it worth chasing all the contributing people away for the sake of a few?

Obviously so according to the way they do things. So the rank of falangs will thin out more, they will continue to cling by pegging the Baht to the dollar. By this they prove how good it goes, all I see is a complete new total economical crash coming up in Thailand, and as long as the news and government can blame the falangs and swine flu the people are duped. Keep the people worried and they cling to the government for support... Swine flu where did all the coloured shirts go? Dangers with foreigners, keep rolling the news and people don't complain simple as that.

One day the house of cards falls, and I bet foreigners will be blamed yet again...

Quote: Thailand is a racist Nation always been, they want foreigners to leave money here and go away.

Wrong, it is exactly the opposite and many ex pats here, just don't seem to get the picture.

Thailand is not a racist nation, but rather it is not a multi racial or multi cultural society. There is a difference between racism and culturalism.

Also Thailand does want foreigners to spend and invest their money here, but not necessarily for them to go away.

For example, all my income is obtained from the UK in the form of a pension, brought over to Thailand and spent here. Plus I have a substantial amount of savings from the UK, invested in Thailand with Thai banks. Meaning that besides any interest that I pay tax on from my bank accounts investments here, I have not even taken 1 baht from Thailand, but rather I am using money here solely obtained from abroad.

The Thais are my hosts and permit me to stay in exchange that I give something back, so everyone's happy all round.

Over step the mark and start over stepping the boundaries, than that is going to cause problems which will decrease tolerance levels the Thais have towards Europeans, because they view the situation as rich Westerners taking advantage of a third world nation whether this is fact or not.

I sincerely hope that Farangs are never given equal status here and that Western influences will remain limited so as not to destroy the uniqueness of Thai culture.

There are too many behind the scenes Farang illegal business and landowners who are using Thais as fronts for their activities, this is common knowledge.

These morons who continue to disregard the Immigration, land & property ownership and prohibited professions laws are not doing themselves or people like myself and many other Farang ex pats here who are abiding by the laws, any favours, the results of which will only create more restrictions and tightening up of the Immigration laws for all of us.

If Thailand is not a racist country, then I beg you to please define racistem

[007]

Foreigners taking over land in North, claims farmers' group

...

"This is dangerous, because these foreigners will turn from renters into beneficiaries exploiting Thai soil, sending remittances overseas and damaging the country's economy," he added.

And I thought that the 'farang' in Thailand are all poor 'kamok'... Just wondering, when the Thais will finally adopt a flag with a swastika as their official flag.

Also, wasn't the King of Thailand born in the U.S., and educated in Switzerland? Wasn't the national anthem written by a German halfblood? How about the prime minister's tertiary education? Why bother studying abroad, why bother eating burgers and using Nokia and Motorola cell phones? Shouldn't Thais use Thai technology and engineering expertise only? After all, the skytrain was built by "Thai people", wasn't it?

(I can still remember the puzzled look on the face of the King when he was given that answer back in 2004. So, what can you expect from people who bush$t their own monarch?)

Edited August 13, 2009 by 7

[barry]

dam_n FOREIGNERS...THEY COME TO THIS COUNTRY AND PUMP TRUCKLOADS OF MONEY INTO THE ECONOMY.

HOW DARE THEY...WHAT ARROGANCE...dam_n FOREIGNERS

[xerostar]

I guess there is some truth to this problem of the Falung exploiting the Thai People.

I paid for my Thai-Chines wife's 100 Rai that she and her family now owns outright.

You would not believe the amount of money we made from farming cassava this year!

So much money in fact that I now have enough money to buy the car I always wanted

- a brand new Ferrari California!

I'm going send in my order tomorrow and should be able to take possession next month!

Yipee!

My Thai neighbours will be so jealous though, I'll have to be careful.

You do know the dealership don't you?

.

.

.

.

It's called toys-r-us!

[007]

I guess there is some truth to this problem of the Falung exploiting the Thai People.

I paid for my Thai-Chines wife's 100 Rai that she and her family now owns outright.

You would not believe the amount of money we made from farming cassava this year!

So much money in fact that I now have enough money to buy the car I always wanted

- a brand new Ferrari California!

Good luck to you! But then again, didn't you invest your money into this venture? And, (heaven forbid) what would happen if you and your wife decided to part ways?

[hhiser]

Interesting thread, and full of articulate comments. For me, it's just reiterated the fact that I need to move somewhere else. Thailand (and in my case, Phuket), has been enjoyable, but the atmosphere, attitude, etc, I'm seriously not feeling comfortable anymore.

Not sure about anyone else, but as I love the Asian culture, think I need to move to Malaysia. No, not the 'scene' of Pattaya/Phuket, but at least there is a culture of honesty and respect, that no longer seems to exist anywhere in Thailand any more.

I have been of a mind to leave for a while now. I like Thailand, I love my Thai family, but the Thai government does absolutely nothing to protect us and there people from the stupid and/or greedy people around us. I live in Lampang and my villa, after I moved in, was declared an OTOP villa for making clay pots. Now my neighbors burn rice debris to fire their pots. They are not even smart enough to construct chimneys to allow the smoke to rise and dissipate. Instead it just blankets the entire neighborhood in a thick cloud of smoke. It is asinine for a government who banned smoking in bars to allow this.

At the end of this month I will renew my visa, and since my contract expires next year I am considering relocating to a new place. Asia is a fascinating area, but other than Japan and S. Korea I can not think of anyplace which would not devolve into the state Thailand is in now. I am tired of fighting the morons while driving into or out of my workplace. Case in point: this morning I was stopped at a light waiting to turn right, which I had been stuck at the last cycle because some moron just could not find the accelerator pedal and as a result 5 cars made it through. When the light turned green (for right turns) and waiting for a few seconds for the people ahead to register that the light was actually green I started forward. Yet an over anxious gent on an aging dream decided he did not want to wait for me. So it tried to cut me off so he could make an extremely slow U-Turn. I let him know that he was a moron and continued on my way.

The point of this rant is I do not want to endure morons like him, my neighbors, and the government anymore. There are so many talented and intelligent people in Thailand, but they are overshadowed by the lazy, incompetent, and greedy. I want to go back where the legal system will enforce punitive damages against the morons and they police will actively pursue them. This bout of xenophobia seems like it will lend itself to targeting foreigners for more legislation design to make the government richer. What will be next?

[hansnl]

There really seems to be a lot of anti-foreign sentiment lately. More than usual, that's for sure.

Yes, indeed.

But, anyone's guess who is planting this sentiment?

Maybe the who is answered by later posts.

[barky]

The rice industry in Thailand has been in the hands of the Thai/Chinese for generations. This is well documented. is this what they mean by foreigners? Surely not!

What's the first thing you think when you hear the term farang? White American/British?

And I thought farang ment foreigner which actually means any non native Thai...

Crackdown on farangs more!

I love the media...

All Thais will have you believe that "farang/falang" identifies non-Thai foreigners generally. DON'T believe it. It's a lie. It really means white(ish) skinned westener.

They always go after the westener because we are very soft targets and in the minority and so plainly obvious due to the colour of our skin. End of story!