Civil Servants Told To Sign Government Petition Or Lose Jobs

[george]

Civil Servants told to sign government petition or lose jobs

By John Le Fevre

Interior Minister Chavarat Charnvirakul

BANGKOK (thaivisa.com): -- Interior Minister Chavarat Charnvirakul yesterday claimed more than six million people had signed a petition opposing the granting of a royal pardon for fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The claim came amidst increasing reports of a forced signature campaign being conducted throughout the country, with some civil servants claiming they have be ordered to sign the anti-Thaksin petition or lose their job.

Likewise, some district, town and village administrators, most notably in the north and northeast of the country – traditional Thaksin strongholds – are claiming they have been instructed to obtain 100 percent support for the government petition from residents, or face dismissal and lose all central government budget funding.

According to a number of civil servants in the Northern Province of Chiang Mai, each employee has been told to collect 100 signatures for the government’s rebuttal petition by Friday, August 14, or face dismissal.

The reports from Chiang Mai match similar ones from the Northeastern Province of Chaiyaphum where the Interior Ministry appointed governor is reported to have summoned district and sub-district leaders to a meeting at City Hall on August 12 and instructed them they must obtain the signatures of all village residents - without exception.

Also in Chaiyaphum, village tree planting ceremonies in honor of HM Queen Sirikit’s 77th birthday saw boxes of food being distributed to residents by the governor, with recipients only receiving the celebratory gifts after they penned their name to the government sponsored petition.

Throughout the country reports are also gradually filtering out of people being paid to sign the rebuttal petition, with one government health officer in Chaiyaphum on August 9 openly paying those who signed the document Bt50 (about $US1.47) each.

For the last several weeks the United Front For Democracy (UDD), commonly termed the “redshirts”, have been verifying the names of the more than five million people it claims has signed the petition seeking a royal pardon for the self-exiled former primer minister.

The group plans to deliver the petition on Monday to royal authorities, after first having the signatures declared valid by the Justice Ministry.

Metropolitan police commander Pol Lieutenant General Worapong Chiewpreecha said yesterday up to 100,000 redshirt supporters were expected to gather in the capital for the petition delivery, but he did not expect any violence.

Nonetheless, he said about 1,000 police will be deployed at Sanam Luang and routes leading to the royal secretary's office inside the Grand Palace to ensure order.

Details of the police preparation came as Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan yesterday instructed the armed forces to monitor the signature campaign to endorse the petition.

Prawit ordered military leaders to ensure social peace and safeguard the monarchy and instructed them to ensure sufficient troops were on hand to support the police if the situation got out of control.

State-rum media outlets were also instructed yesterday to launch an awareness campagin to remind the public about the improper conduct to politicise the monarchy via the pardon petition.

Prime Minister’s Office Minister Satit Wongnongtaey told media organizations: "The issue of a royal pardon has caused so much confusion and organisers of the signature campaign have been acting in reckless disregard for the law”.

Redshirt leaders have said their submission of the petition seeking a pardon for the former prime minister will be orderly, but said they have received reports of the so-called “blue-shirts” who clashed with redshirt protesters at the Asean summit in Pattaya in April, being reformed and paid Bt500 (about $US14.70) each to travel to Bangkok to disrupt the event.

On Thursday Chavarat reiterated his previous claims that the Ministry’s rebuttal petition was not in competition with the pro-Thaksin group, claiming that it was the Ministry’s core policy to protect the royal institution.

He reminded all people who had innocently signed the pro-Thaksin petition that they could withdraw their names at booths erected by the Ministry and said he had instructed governors in all provinces to continually collect people’s names.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-08-14

[Scott]

I have a feeling this thread is going to be a fun one to watch.

I am also glad that the war being waged is with pen and ink instead of something more dangerous.

[njpski]

Now we are seeing true corruption from the anti-Thaksin folk - forcing people to sign a petition on pain of losing their jobs is as abhorrent as allegedly buying votes

[Thai at Heart]

You couldn't write a more ironic comedy.

The honest, uncorrupt ant-Thaksinites being compelled or bribed to sign a petition. "Say it isn't so Joe, say it isn't so!"

[scorecard]

Now we are seeing true corruption from the anti-Thaksin folk - forcing people to sign a petition on pain of losing their jobs is as abhorrent as allegedly buying votes

I have three family members in the civil service, this morning I called all of them , they all said that they have not been told (ordered) to sign, and it's not been even suggested that they sign the petition.

[Thai at Heart]

Now we are seeing true corruption from the anti-Thaksin folk - forcing people to sign a petition on pain of losing their jobs is as abhorrent as allegedly buying votes

I have three family members in the civil service, this morning I called all of them , they all said that they have not been told (ordered) to sign, and it's not been even suggested that they sign the petition.

Well that makes me happy all over.

[Scott]

Three people does not a Civil Service make.

I am sure the ones who got ordered to sign were the ones who didn't want to sign.

[dale8]

Hello, this story is a sad commentary on the duress people must endure to keep their jobs and put food on the table. This petition means as little as the free Thaksin petition as only Thaksin or his family can ask for amnesty after he has been to prison in Thailand. It looks like warrants have been issued for the arrest of some of the red shirt bosses for contempt of court in this issue. Cheers.

[politeexpat]

After recent local election in my village two young staff members lost their government jobs for voting for the wrong guy for Puyai Baan. They expected to work for the village their whole lives, they are now unemployed.

A family member works for Amphur district government (the amphur reports to central government) --- yes, there is pressure to sign anti-Thaksin petition. Also heard that Village headmen (at least to Puyai Baan level) were told to get signatures from people or face budget cuts.

Another family member working in government hospital said something similar.

Are there documents supporting this? Of course not.

Is it likely to be true? Of course.

Remember a few years ago (as reported in Bangkok Post at the time) when Thaksin openly told provinces that they either vote TRT or not get central government funding?

Think what is at stake. We're talking historic complete power shift from one group to another. Billions of dollars in distribution. Worth fighting for?

For westerners it is hard to grasp the concept of a 'Democracy' without rule of law and free speech.

Welcome to Thailand.

The term used in our household in reference to the current PM was 'like Hitler'

It certainly is more fascist than democratic.

[politeexpat]

Sis-in-law hasn't been offered a satang to sign anything, but then, consider the source...

Insight: where does your sister-in-law work? Makes a difference if you understand Thailand politics - and would be helpful to thoughtful thread comments instead of bashing what you apparently don't understand. You might want to consider a change to your user name. Quantity doesn't translate to quality.

just my opinion

[Insight]

Sis-in-law hasn't been offered a satang to sign anything, but then, consider the source...

Insight: where does your sister-in-law work? Makes a difference if you understand Thailand politics - and would be helpful to thoughtful thread comments instead of bashing what you apparently don't understand. You might want to consider a change to your user name. Quantity doesn't translate to quality.

just my opinion

She works in the court house, Bangkok. I understand politics enough, thanks. Enough to have my say on a forum, just like you.

"just like Hitler" you say? Interesting.

[RKASA]

This is why the government resources should have never been used for an anti petition.   Its a completely stupid political move.  They paint themselves into the same corner of abuser they have Thaksin in.  If the petition they claim to be illegal is in fact illegal, then why would a petition of their own be even needed.  

The spoils system is alive and well.  The Army and Police are getting re sorted as we post, and it goes on from top to the bottom.  They are making the type government Thaksin had for the same reason Thaksin did, just the same old Thai re run.    yawn   wake me when its over.

[Samuian]

If it is alright what a runaway fugitive,

who looted the country with his band of supporters,

who suppressed the media, who had it all his way,

who had a questionable absolute majority in government,

who was close to.... ah'well... if this was alright and all

the attacks he is launching from abroad to unseat the existing

government, who incited the songkran uprisning, who had his

mob interfere at the planned Pattaya ASEAN Summit, then why

are his opponents not allowed to do just the same?

What sort of hypocrisy is this...is it Thaksinologics?

Why shoudn't the opponents just go for "tit for tat"?

Because for them there are rulez to follow, because for them it is

"undemocratic"?

well...come again..is it time for the evening comedy session?

[sriracha john]

Haven't seen anything on this in Reuters, AP, BBC, NNT, MCOT, Bangkok Post, The Nation, PTV, TAN, or heard anything on this from Thai TV news or the four family members that are civil servants.

[Gary A]

Why would this surprise anyone? Just pity the Thai people who have no choices. It would be difficult to decide which parties are the most corrupt.

[Mario2008]

If it is alright what a runaway fugitive,

who looted the country with his band of supporters,

who suppressed the media, who had it all his way,

who had a questionable absolute majority in government,

who was close to.... ah'well... if this was alright and all

the attacks he is launching from abroad to unseat the existing

government, who incited the songkran uprisning, who had his

mob interfere at the planned Pattaya ASEAN Summit, then why

are his opponents not allowed to do just the same?

What sort of hypocrisy is this...is it Thaksinologics?

Why shoudn't the opponents just go for "tit for tat"?

Because for them there are rulez to follow, because for them it is

"undemocratic"?

well...come again..is it time for the evening comedy session?

While a comparison between the tactics of both sides can be made, the topic of this thread is civil servants being told to sign the government petition or lose their job. Off topic comments will be deleted without further notice.

[Mario2008]

1 flaming comment has been deleted.

[politeexpat]

I was told a couple days ago that a Thai language paper had something on this. Which surprised my Thai friends because they consider the press to be suppressed by government.

Again, I suggest that where someone works, and what their status in the organization is has bearing on whether they are being pressured or not. "Civil Servant" doesn't really define things. Do they work in a former TRT stronghold, directly subject to central government control - where top positions have been changing a lot over the last couple of years with new people from outside the region being placed in top jobs. There isn't uniformity here.... remember... A courthouse in Bangkok is a far cry from a district office in Isaan. Different world, different country almost.

Maybe the hacker's report will get picked up by Reuters, like I saw that the Nation relied on for another story...

Edited August 14, 2009 by politeexpat

[Farma]

None of the seven civil servants in my family had heard or been told to sign anything.

[Orac]

Who is John Le Fevre and what is a loose job? It doesn't sound very secure in the first place.

John,

Since I see you are reading this thread at the moment, are you able to confirm if you have spoken directly with the officials mentioned to get these comments or have you pieced this together from other media sources. Since none of this appears to be in the mainstream english language press and they are clearly sensitive issues i, and i am sure others, would be interested to know what verification process you have gone through on this.

Many Thanks

Orac

[steveromagnino]

None of the seven civil servants in my family had heard or been told to sign anything.

It may indeed be true in places, just as we can safely assume that there are people who have signed the red petition that equally were paid/rewarded/escaped consequences for doing so.

No doubt the red shirts would love this to be a smoking gun, just as the yellow shirts would love to be able to say that the red shirts have fake signatures littered through their petition.

Reality check: there is no legal mechanism or precedent to ask for a pardon for a fugitive who has refused to recognise his duty to serve time and who is refusing to return to face further charges filed against him. No matter how many people sign the petition. A counter petition is equally worthless.

I find it most interesting that at absolute most, we are talking about 10 million people total; less than 20% of the country, who have signed a petition one way or the other.

Therefore, both views are in a small minority and there is no question to me both petitions were created for the purposes of igniting passions. Because what happens when you ignite paper? You get smoke - a perfect smoke screen leading to the next decision regarding corruption in the former TRT government.

Thaksin did this before - trying to use popular force to get him to avoid the asset declaration where he was in clear breach of the law (putting assets in his maid's name but then 'forgetting about it') but used the popular vote (something close to 50% of the vote at that time) to lean on the judges. It worked. This time we are talking about less than 10% of the population on a petition. There is again, no doubt that he is publically distancing himself from it to create a no lose strategy; however this has his handiwork written all over it. No literally.

forget about it.

Edited August 14, 2009 by steveromagnino

[animatic]

Now we are seeing true corruption from the anti-Thaksin folk - forcing people to sign a petition on pain of losing their jobs is as abhorrent as allegedly buying votes

I have three family members in the civil service, this morning I called all of them , they all said that they have not been told (ordered) to sign, and it's not been even suggested that they sign the petition.

Regardless of bias, this sounds like more dis-information PR.

Put out by a PR machine still in good working order.

Think of some of the PTP pronouncements tenuous grounding in reality.

The ONLY recourse for countering this counter-petition is to make it look heavy handed and forced.

If I were Thaksin's PR people I would recommend this; rumors to confuse, especially up north.

While I don't doubt there are a few zealots being more forceful than others,

this sounds so scripted as to be open for legitimate question.

Also heard that Village headmen (at least to Puyai Baan level) were told to get signatures from people or face budget cuts.

This IS a Thaksin technique, as I have PERSONALLY seen it happen on Samui after 2005 election.

His TRT losing candidates came in and said essentially; "Ha, ha, Mr. Thaksin says you now lose your

development and repair funding, because we didn't get elected. Have a good rainy season."

I have that from someone I know quite well who was at the meeting. I later saw 'average people literally

showing the shoes bottoms to these two TRT guys' during the BAD flooding that they couldn't abate,

for lack of road budget, until a national emergency was declared.

People lost homes and jobs because Thaksin had to slap Samui/Surat for not voting for his team.

So perfectly logical to say the Dems are doing the same thing.

"I read the paper every day and a believe every word it says."

Credulous is, what credulous does.

Edited August 14, 2009 by animatic

[DP25]

And his info taken directly from Taksin's twitter, #rednews, and #redtwit, brilliant investigations!

[photojourn]

Who is John Le Fevre and what is a loose job? It doesn't sound very secure in the first place.

John,

Since I see you are reading this thread at the moment, are you able to confirm if you have spoken directly with the officials mentioned to get these comments or have you pieced this together from other media sources. Since none of this appears to be in the mainstream english language press and they are clearly sensitive issues i, and i am sure others, would be interested to know what verification process you have gone through on this.

Many Thanks

Orac

The information on people being intimidated and told to meet signature quotas came from talking to civil servants employed in the north and northeast of Thailand. Other events are reported from having spoken to and in some cases obtained written accounts of events from eyewitnesses to those events.

Thanks for reading

[animatic]

And his info taken directly from Taksin's twitter, #rednews, and #redtwit, brilliant investigations!

ROTFLOL, who'd a thunk it?

[animatic]

Who is John Le Fevre and what is a loose job? It doesn't sound very secure in the first place.

John,

Since I see you are reading this thread at the moment, are you able to confirm if you have spoken directly with the officials mentioned to get these comments or have you pieced this together from other media sources. Since none of this appears to be in the mainstream english language press and they are clearly sensitive issues i, and i am sure others, would be interested to know what verification process you have gone through on this.

Many Thanks

Orac

The information on people being intimidated and told to meet signature quotas came from talking to civil servants employed in the north and northeast of Thailand. Other events are reported from having spoken to and in some cases obtained written accounts of events from eyewitnesses to those events.

Thanks for reading

John, what are the political affiliations of those reporting these incidents?

Civil servants are not with out direct affiliations.

That certainly has some bearing on their reports veracity.

And nothing to do with your good faith in gathering the information.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

I would be first to condemn the government - which I have supported - if this is true. But I need more proof than some unknown writer here. I find it extraordinary that none of my (100) staff and their families have signed on EITHER side of the petition (OK, I lie, my accountant's husband works for the red radio statoin and he has signed it). And we live in Chiang Mai. Surely with millions signing documents all over the place, it would be more visible. Just doesn't add up.

[TAWP]

Two things:

- The title is incorrect, all we have is allegedly people in some former TRT strongholds being forced to sign a counter-petition or face dismissal. The title states it like it is a fact.

- The counter-petition is utterly stupid and shows that this government doesn't have a clue on how to counter Thaksins hired [foreign] PR team.

[Ferwert]

Le Fevre's article restores some faith in the integrity of this board. This is an excellent attempt at balanced journalism by "Thai Visa News". I commend them for it.

This subject matter will be increasingly corroberated in days to come. There were just too many involved and too much pressure exerted. Even 'Government Officials' pro-government inclinations are sorely tested by such arm twisting. It wont take much of a journalist's efforts in the near future to expose more details.

I just hope that all this 'smoke and noise' doesn't detract from the "legitimate" Citizen's supplication going forward and being considered solely on its' merits without all these frantic Govt'l illegitimate counter-measures clouding the process.

These coercive Govt. tactics have been observed on a broad front in this area for over a week now, but I didn't expect the English Language Media to report it.............But they did.

Be appreciative of this you Farangs, and thankful for some balance.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Ferwert

[Plus]

Where did Le Fevre obtain this information?

"Likewise, some district, town and village administrators, most notably in the north and northeast of the country – traditional Thaksin strongholds – are claiming they have been instructed to obtain 100 percent support for the government petition from residents, or face dismissal and loose all central government budget funding.

According to a number of civil servants in the Northern Province of Chiang Mai, each employee has been told to collect 100 signatures for the government’s rebuttal petition by Friday, August 14, or face dismissal.

The reports from Chiang Mai match similar ones from the Northeastern Province of Chaiyaphum where the Interior Ministry appointed governor is reported to have summoned district and sub-district leaders to a meeting at City Hall on August 12 and instructed them they must obtain the signatures of all village residents - without exception."

Did he interview district, town and village administrators? How many? Where? Did he actually recieved reports from Chiang Mai and Chayaphum?

>>>>

Regardless - the Interior Ministry that rnus this "reported" campaign is run by Newin's men. I would be surprised if they didn't do anything stupid like that at all.

And maybe John Le Fevre, who apparently knows all this information first hand, can provide us with the text of this counter-petition everyone is signing. What does it say and who is it addressed to?