Who Pays For The House?

[tuky]

Just a bit of advice required if you folks don't mind.

Here is the story.

Wife and myself separated (not divorced) for 1.5 years +/-.

2 children aged 5 and 3 years.

Wife owns two houses, paid for by me.

Both houses rented out at 35k/month each. totalling 70k/month.

3rd house still has a mortgage against it of 8 or 9 million baht.

Monthly repayments on the mortgage are 70k baht.

I have been sending 100k/month to cover mortgage, my children and her expenses.

She told me the rental houses were vacant which turns out to be untrue.

She wants 200k/month plus a Mercedes Benz to sign a divorce.

My contract has just come to an end, I have been telling her this for 6 months to make sure she prepares for loss of income. It might take me another 6 months + to find a new job.

Anyway, I can no longer afford to pay for the 3rd house and she has made no provisions for me being out of work. Infact she has just handed over 1 chanote to the local loan shark in order to buy a new car. She has no chance of paying the loan shark back and I most certainly will not do it for her, so that house will be lost.

I have been suggesting she lower the 17 million she wants for the 3rd house to a couple of million above what is owed to the bank in order to sell it as I can no longer afford to pay for it, but she refuses and so will lose that house too.

My question is, as I signed the mortgage as guarantor what happens if I simply stop paying for it?

I no longer live in Thailand by the way.

Any thoughts?

I will always do my best to do the right thing, but she will not lift a finger to help and infact is making the situation worse. If it wasn't for the children (which I pay for each month and also their school fees) I would just disappear.

Another thing to add. The 100k I send each month I send to her Mother, the kids Grandma as they live with her rather than the wife. I send this money Western Union using the G/Ma name and I had been sending the Pin to the wife. This was mainly to make sure both are aware I am sending the money and to try to bring them together atleast once a month.

I recently found out that the wife had her friend legally change her name to that of the GrandMa in order to intercept the 100k, Grandma would insist the money be used properly, but that infringed on the wife's sanook levels. Amazing what they will do in order to get their hands on the loot yeah?

Anyway, do I need to keep paying for the house? (moot point really as I can no longer afford to)

[QED]

Wow that's some story Tuky, I have observed you on this forum for the last 4 years or so and like your postings, so I guess I like you.

No idea about the legalities as guarantor, what would happen in the UK is the bank would sell at a loss and chase the guarantor, what happens here is anyone's guess. If she has handed the Chanute to the loan shark then ultimately he will have to transfer to his name, both asset and liability.

Good luck, never been where you are but I do empathise.

And good on you for trying to do the right thing for so long

[tuky]

Wow that's some story Tuky, I have observed you on this forum for the last 4 years or so and like your postings, so I guess I like you.

No idea about the legalities as guarantor, what would happen in the UK is the bank would sell at a loss and chase the guarantor, what happens here is anyone's guess. If she has handed the Chanute to the loan shark then ultimately he will have to transfer to his name, both asset and liability.

Good luck, never been where you are but I do empathise.

And good on you for trying to do the right thing for so long

Thanks mate. Life can be interesting sometimes yeah?

Anyway, the chanote she gave to the loan shark is for one of the rentals, so there is no liability on that one. Only what she owes the shark. She is paying 19k/month interest and has 12 months to pay back the initial amount borrowed. I don't think she has a chance in hel_l of coming up with the money.

Shame really.

[philo]

You don't have to pay for anything as you are not in Thailand, and nobody will drag you back here.

But you are in big shit - this kind of money, a Mercedes and your wife screwing her own mother. And she doesn't even take care of your children!

I thought I was in big shit, but my wife already knows I am almost broke (she has a new house, a rubber garden and a pick-up for her father).

So she won't kill me whether I give 20 or 30 k a month - she knows I cannot be screwed anymore.

The house is uninhabited - after the first child was born, she changed her attitude. She doesn't want to live in the sticks anymore, because she wants her children to have some manners and education. So at least there is some hope left ...

I feel sorry for you: A fortune for what?

[chiangmaibruce]

She wants 200k/month plus a Mercedes Benz to sign a divorce.

wow, what a horrible story. Doesn't she realise that in another 1.5 years you will have your divorce anyway? see www.thailawonline.com

->>The husband and wife voluntarily live separately for more than 3 years (Section 1516 (4/2) CCC)

I appreciate that the most pressing concern is your role as guarantor, but have you considered presenting all this evidence of financial incompetence and cunning to the authorities and going for full custody of your children? I can't see how you will ever rest easy with regards to your children with this person still in the picture. I doubt the bank would chase you if you are offshore but do you intend to visit thailand in the future? Plus your absconding from this commitment might work against you if you did subsequently go for full custody.

An alternative to lawyering-up and going for custody would be shock treatment. Withdraw all financial support immediately until she can guarantee to you a method by which your money to support your children can and will reach them (and only them). Entirely put the onus on her and don't waver for a moment.

Good luck with charting a course through all this

PS: And today just happens to be my 5th wedding anniversary. Touch wood, big time

Edited August 22, 2009 by chiangmaibruce

[barky]

Hi Tuky. I'm not gonna start saying what many would be thinking you know "Oh, not another one/ som nom na" and all that because I'm sure you realize this yourself and is not at all helpful.

I totally sympathise with you and hope it all works out for you and your kids which you obviously still feel concerned and responsible for. This is very commendable.

I have to say IF I were in your postion (and I'm not, but I have been, in another life) I would just walk away, cut all my losses and start building a new future immediately. BUT you have to make very sure that the money you are sending for the kids actually gets used on them.

Apart from the kids, never look back and please NEVER make this mistake again.

Good luck .

Edited August 22, 2009 by barky

[philo]

Hi Tuky. I'm not gonna start saying what many would be thinking you know "Oh, not another one/ som nom na" and all that because I'm sure you realize this yourself and is not at all helpful.

I totally sympathise with you and hope it all works out for you and your kids which you obviously still feel concerned and responsible for. This is very commendable.

I have to say IF I were in your postion (and I'm not, but I have been, in another life) I would just walk away, cut all my losses and start building a new future immediately. BUT you have to make very sure that the money you are sending for the kids actually gets used on them.

Apart from the kids, never look back and please NEVER make this mistake again.

Good luck .

Good advise. Although my problems are small compared to Tuky's, I have started to check out whether I can get a bank to automatically pay all fixed expences for my wife and children whether I am here or not. That way I only have to give an allowance for casual spending.

But - one of my friends told me they can take up a loan based one secured fixed income. So what are we to do?

Tuky - your wife is (Thai) rich beyond belief already, and sooner or later you will get your divorce. As the poster above said: Try to find out what kind of future you want for your children.

[InterestedObserver]

Write everything off, except the children of course. You no longer live in Thailand so the bank can't touch you for the mortgage. I would send enough money for the children's support, nothing more, and try to get the money directly to the grandmother. Between the loan shark and the bank, there won't be enough left to fight over. Legal divorce and custody, that's another issue.

Edited August 22, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[philo]

.....

An alternative to lawyering-up and going for custody would be shock treatment. Withdraw all financial support immediately until she can guarantee to you a method by which your money to support your children can and will reach them (and only them). Entirely put the onus on her and don't waver for a moment.

.....

How can you guarantee anything if (and even then it is not fool proof) if you don't do/supervise it yourself?

[cdnvic]

I would, if I were in the situation, be looking for a way to trade full custody for a lump sum of cash. You know she can be motivated by greed. Then I'd run fast back to Oz with the kids. There's still time before she teaches them to be like her. I know you, and I know you are a bloody good dad and could do right by those kids. They need your example to live a good life. The last thing they need is to be influenced by what they see their mother doing.

[ignis]

plus a Mercedes Benz to sign a divorce

That is the easy bit, plenty of nice 'S' or 'E" class Mercedes Benz for 200 - 300k

[philo]

Why 3 houses? Why not put the money in a savings account for your childrens education when grown up?

Leaving your children with an old lady somewhere in trashy T. while their mother didn't give a F. You had the cash for how many nannys you would have wanted.

Doing the good thing? 100k a month is a very good net salary in most western countries.

There must be more to this.

Anyway - good luck.

ph

Edited August 22, 2009 by philo

[moe666]

Don't send anything for a few months, your kids want go hungry. When the money stops for a while there maybe a change in attitude..

A friends daughter was constantly being taken to court by her ex. I advised her to tell him you want the kids so bad there yours, well it took her about 3 years to do it but when she did the back pedalling caused a vaccum in the court house. That ended the suits.

Tell your wife no more money and see what happens. It's worth a try.

[JacknDanny]

I would, if I were in the situation, be looking for a way to trade full custody for a lump sum of cash. You know she can be motivated by greed. Then I'd run fast back to Oz with the kids. There's still time before she teaches them to be like her. I know you, and I know you are a bloody good dad and could do right by those kids. They need your example to live a good life. The last thing they need is to be influenced by what they see their mother doing.

I sympathise with you Tuky, its a sh!tty situation you are in, but I agree with this post above.

I am pretty sure if it wasnt for your kids, you would have walked away from it all and marked it down as an expensive experience.

You need to get your kids. Fight fire with fire. You know what tweeks her buttons. Get a good lawyer on the case, but the bottom line is the kids need to be with you in OZ.

This story should serve as a warning to everybody out there.

I was lucky, my son is 8. I took his mother to court when he was 3, and won sole custody.

I love this place, I have a girlfriend of 4+ years but I will NEVER get married, and only put in her name what I dont mind losing.

You just never know.

Good luck Tuky

[rixalex]

only put in her name what I dont mind losing.

You just never know.

Wise words.

Good luck Tuky. Can't imagine how a nice guy got caught up with such a piece of work. Goes to show.

[tuky]

Hmmm...

I figured that the best way to go from here at the moment is to stop all payments.

However I just received scanned invoices for the kids schooling, adds up to around 50,000 baht. I will translate the invoices a little later. But it does look legit. I will find a way to pay the school directly rather than through her.

I want absolutely nothing from her except to be rid of her, she can have everything. I know I will have lost a lot of money and I would be able to win half of it if I tried, but I do have other contingencies in place where my Brother in Law (Scotsman) will hopefully be able to buy the houses at a reduced price, my half (atleast) will go into long term deposit accounts in the kids names. Win win if you ask me, he gets a couple of cheap houses, the houses are not lost to the loan shark and the kids get a slice of it. So fingers crossed.

Actually the bro in law sent me an email a week or so ago telling me to stop all payments, it is way too much and what I am being told the expenses are are in fact her party costs.

Regarding how I got caught up in this mess?

The first 4 or so years were great, but I guess I spent too long away on different jobs and she found herself in with a bad bunch of friends. Took to smoking ice and disco dancing and goodness knows what else. It all went bad from there. Death threats, violence against me (another tv member witnessed some of it) and so on.

Mind you, some of you say I am a good/nice guy...I actually am not. Ity always takes two to tango so I must bear some of the blame here.

It is funny you know, all she ever had to do was treat me well, take care of the kids, not lie, and she would have had everything she ever wanted. But for a few good times she has lost the whole lot. There is talk of her heading off to HK to try and earn some money.

Anyway, I am off for the next two days, so I might not have internet access.

Thanks for the confirmation guys, stopping payments is the right thing to do. As my bro in law put it, stop the payments and bring this whole thing to a head.

[cdnvic]

Good luck mate.

[philo]

You have made a decision. Good for you.

But you said the two houses that was rented out gave 70k a month. Why on earth does she want to go to HK when she already has this kind of money.

And if they are hers, will she sell them? And for how many more millions?

And I don't understand: How can buying the houses (your BIL) give you anything to save for your children. Can he buy them very cheap and sell them more expencive.

Sorry for being curious.

Good luck

[moe666]

Philo, as happens with people what is good today is bad tomorrow. It happens every where not just Thailand. We have a saying were I am from that you are known by the company you keep. it sounds like his wife got into a bad group of people, who more than likely saw the big money he sent as their gravy train. I will bet that as soon as the money stops they will drop her like a rock.

[chiangmaibruce]

I figured that the best way to go from here at the moment is to stop all payments.

OK, good, but I would add one important point here that I neglected to mention in a previous post.

I think it is important that you write a letter setting out clearly WHY you are stopping payments and this should also provide an overview of the amount of money you have already contributed and what happened to it, etc. Think of this as "exhibit a" in an upcoming court case. It needs to be very diplomatically written (get help in drafting it if you need to) and then sent by registered post (or Thai equivalent) so she must sign for receipt. It should set out the terms under which you will resume payment and make it clear your commitment to support the children.

This step is important so that the stopping of funds cannot be used by her as ammunition against you in a custody hearing or other legal action. It also sends the message that you are working to a plan and not just firing from the hip.

Edited August 24, 2009 by chiangmaibruce