What do you ladies think of Cleo Odzer's book Patpong Sisters? There's nothing else like it, really. I read it about 8 years ago and what stuck in my mind was that the Thai bar girls - who she considered friends - on occasion hustled her the way they hustled guys. Also, her description of the gay scene was pretty interesting. I particularly liked her comment about Thai feminists that she met at a conference - they thought prostitutes were "immoral" not because they slept with guys for money, but because they slept with more than one guy.

I corresponded with Cleo for awhile because I had a web site about HIV/AIDS in Thailand. After doing a quick google on her name it seems she may have died in Goa in 2002. Very sad, if true. Anyone know for sure?

Sorry, haven't read it yet. If you're willing to let me borrow it I'd be more than happy to give you my review!

After doing a quick google on her name it seems she may have died in Goa in 2002. Very sad, if true. Anyone know for sure?

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I read the same thing about her passing away.

What do you ladies think of Cleo Odzer's book Patpong Sisters? There's nothing else like it, really.

I really enjoyed Patpong Sisters, however found it read more like a non-fictional novel rather than an academic piece of writing (that’s me being pedantic). However, I commend her for broaching the subject (at that time and place) as a woman. I doubt a male could have established the same rapport. Obviously things down Patpong have changed, but it would be interesting to see to what extent in comparison to Cleo’s observations. If I had more time I’d love to do it (have already befriended quite a few girls there) .

I particularly liked her comment about Thai feminists that she met at a conference - they thought prostitutes were "immoral" not because they slept with guys for money, but because they slept with more than one guy.

I do find the “immoral” issue interesting. If it’s a case of notches on the bed, then quite a few of us would be deemed as scarlet women . I recently watched a documentary about what defines a woman as a “slut”. The literature on the area is growing and it’s quite fascinating what men and in particular other women think. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

I really enjoyed Patpong Sisters, however found it read more like a non-fictional novel rather than an academic piece of writing (that’s me being pedantic).

That seems to be the fashion these days - take your PhD dissertation, tart it up a little and sell it as a gonzo-journalism type novel. Liza Dalby's Geisha comes to mind. But Liza proved she was a good novelist by writing an excellent quasi-fictional biography of Muraski Shikibu (for anyone who hasn't heard of her, Murasaki was the woman who wrote the world's first true novel a thousand years ago).

I do find the “immoral” issue interesting. If it’s a case of notches on the bed, then quite a few of us would be deemed as scarlet women

Sorry, I got that quote a little screwed up. It wasn't made by a true-blue feminist but a "professional woman from the elite class":

"To her, Hoi (a bar girl) was no good because she became attracted to men while with Alex, the idea being that, even as a prostitute, a woman is supposed to be faithful to her man. A woman must repress her own desires, whether she's a wife or a paid companion."

One thing I liked about Cleo, though, is she sure as he11 didn't repress any of her own desires.

Sorry, haven't read it yet. If you're willing to let me borrow it I'd be more than happy to give you my review! 

I think I'm being hustled. If you're in Thailand, you can probably borrow a copy from Asia Books. It's a must-read, as far as I'm concerned.

One thing I liked about Cleo, though, is she sure as he11 didn't repress any of her own desires. 

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Repress one’s desires? In this day and age that has to be a joke . I might be getting a bit ahead of myself , but suppression of desire never results in satisfaction – which (as I understand it) is the main goal for everyone .

p.s: I enjoyed Geisha, purely as a novel – it helped kill the hours in an enjoyable way .

it seems she may have died in Goa in 2002. Very sad, if true. Anyone know for sure?

Yes, cancer sadly.

I haven't read it either, but I'd like to thank you for bringing it up - novels are my favorite sneaky way to absorb information - I'll add Patpong Sisters to my list. Do you have any other suggestions?

it seems she may have died in Goa in 2002. Very sad, if true. Anyone know for sure?

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from the social security death index:

Name Birth Death Last Residence Last Benefit

CLEO S ODZER 06 Apr 1950 26 Mar 2001 (P) (FO) (none specified)

SSN Issued Tools

097-42-3588 New York SS-5 Letter

Add Post-em

(V)=(Verified) Report verified with a family member or someone acting on behalf of a family member.

(P)=(Proof) Death Certificate Observed.

I haven't read it either, but I'd like to thank you for bringing it up - novels are my favorite sneaky way to absorb information - I'll add Patpong Sisters to my list. Do you have any other suggestions?

Not if you prefer novels. I read mostly non-fiction. I think the only novels I've read in the last 5 years are Memoirs of a Geisha, The Cobra Event (about bio-terrorism) and Da Vinci Code.

If you like books about unusual women, try Dragon Lady : The Life and Legend of the Last Empress of China, by Sterling Seagrave.

In the book, she picks up the most slaggy Thai "chico" boyfriend possible.

That part seemed like fiction, as there's just no way a passable blonde girl would want some scungebucket like that.