People Warned Against Forwarding PM's Doctored Audio Clip

[clausewitz]

I'm talking about the aggressive clampdown on people that simply forwarded an email attachment; it's

But that simple forwarding of false statement that could harm the national security and not to mention a person's life (Abhisit's), was apparently against the law. So you suggest this gov't ought to run the country by not enforcing the rule of law as long as the reds can do whatever they please? That's your democracy? Nice.

There is no evidence at all that the two who forwarded the email had any idea it was false.

In fact how would they have known it was false considering it took experts in sound files to decide that it was a fake?

Edited September 2, 2009 by clausewitz

[Plus]

what happen if you spread some BS or potentially damaging whatever about a country's ex-Prime Minister?

You get sued for billions.

Complete speculation and different from what the police and Abhisit have stated...

You always shamelessly alter the facts. During my several years on this forum you are the absolute worst at this habit; above is a simple example. It's pathetic...

Show me what facts I altered to justify labels like "shameless" and "pathetic".

Actually you should have included them in your post in the first place, without me having to ask you to clarify.

Without them it's nothing but flaming post without any substance.

The origins of the e-mail chain were traced to SC Asset, that has been widely reported. What did I alter here?

[animatic]

Based on the description of the sloppy editing, it would be clear to many it was false.

Like something from a bad rap rip off.

[Rumfoord]

Based on the description of the sloppy editing, it would be clear to many it was false.

Like something from a bad rap rip off.

so it was almost like that dumb, boring and unfunny thaksin rap clip on youtube or what? so stupid and poor cut up sampling edits that it is perfect clear that it isn't real.

so where is the problem then?

[Plus]

Apparently the two employees have been fired and Jatuporn claims the clip came from an army base.

Clauswitz - yes, the two guys can say they didn't know it was doctored, but it still leaves questions about their motives. This is some serious stuff on there, it's not just an innocent prank like Maew rap clips on youtube.

As I said - if they wanted to be whistle blowers on Abhisit, they should have checked the source, or put a HUGE disclaimer on it. I understand there was nothing of the kind.

Doctored or not - the stuff on the tape is seriously damaging to Prime Minister's reputation, you should expect some sort of a response, most likely lawsuit for defamation or libel, whichever applies, in this case Computer Act, and you will have to be prepared to defend yourself in court. What do you think are the chances "I didn't know it was false" defence line?

[Insight]

Based on the description of the sloppy editing, it would be clear to many it was false.

Like something from a bad rap rip off.

so it was almost like that dumb, boring and unfunny thaksin rap clip on youtube or what? so stupid and poor cut up sampling edits that it is perfect clear that it isn't real.

so where is the problem then?

The YouTube clip was blatantly created and uploaded as satire.

This was blatantly created and distributed to mislead.

[jasreeve17]

what happen if you spread some BS or potentially damaging whatever about a country's ex-Prime Minister?

You get sued for billions.

Complete speculation and different from what the police and Abhisit have stated...

You always shamelessly alter the facts. During my several years on this forum you are the absolute worst at this habit; above is a simple example. It's pathetic...

Show me what facts I altered to justify labels like "shameless" and "pathetic".

Actually you should have included them in your post in the first place, without me having to ask you to clarify.

Without them it's nothing but flaming post without any substance.

The origins of the e-mail chain were traced to SC Asset, that has been widely reported. What did I alter here?

I did; clearly underlined and in orange (post #94)! What more do you want??? Okay, let's help you in baby steps...

The original news item (postem at the start of this thread) and other news clips posted make clear statements about the two employees who forwarded this audio clip:

News clip (post #1) "Monday warned the people against forwarding Prime Minister's doctored audio clip"

News clip (post #6) "two company employees arrested on Sunday for alleged involvement in the release of the controversial audio clip"

News clip (post #55) "have been charged with disseminating the controversial audio"

You then alter those statements to suit your purpose... In your post (#84) you stated that the people caught (and released) were responsible for the recording; your words (post #84) "Out of thousands that have been involved in this only people who have been arrested (and released) are the guys who started it all."

They didn't start anything, nobody (except you) is saying they did... They had an audio clip which they forwarded to some work colleagues, nothing more.

You, I and likely hundreds of thousands of other people in Thailand could be equally 'guilty' of forwarding similar information in a similar way (yellow, red or blue info: it matters not). This is political thuggery by the ruling power, it's undemocratic and very dangerous. It's an abuse of freedom of speech and freedom of sharing information, in my opinion - these are the actions of scary states; Stalin has been mentioned along with the Burmese junta (I mentioned the 70's Pakistan junta)...

Blinkered and polarized folk such as yourself who support actions of this type by this 'government' are helping to set this country back decades. It is not acceptable for MrT, Abby, the army or anyone else to silence the people...

You regularly misquote news clips, statements and quotes, in the way outlined above, to suit your blinkered viewpoint. I stand by my words; it's pathetic and shameless to alter and / or misquote statements in order to further your 'argument'...

[Insight]

They didn't start anything, nobody (except you) is saying they did... They had an audio clip which they forwarded to some work colleagues, nothing more.

You, I and likely hundreds of thousands of other people in Thailand could be equally 'guilty' of forwarding similar information in a similar way (yellow, red or blue info: it matters not). This is political thuggery by the ruling power, it's undemocratic and very dangerous. It's an abuse of freedom of speech and freedom of sharing information, in my opinion - these are the actions of scary states; Stalin has been mentioned along with the Burmese junta (I mentioned the 70's Pakistan junta)...

Big advocate of freedom of speech here, but if that was my voice that had been manipulated to say something damning about our hosts that could ultimately make my existence here life-threatening, and was being circulated by people who know it to be a fake, I would want everything done in my realistically tiny powers to have it stopped.

Obviously the key issue raised here is if the SC Asset employees knew the clip was a fake. Choose your sides...

[animatic]

Based on the description of the sloppy editing, it would be clear to many it was false.

Like something from a bad rap rip off.

so it was almost like that dumb, boring and unfunny thaksin rap clip on youtube or what? so stupid and poor cut up sampling edits that it is perfect clear that it isn't real.

so where is the problem then?

SEVERAL THINGS.

No stupidly funny animation that makes it CLEARLY parody.

It was put forward as truth.

It was touted by well known public figures with followings as truth.

Till they realized it was 'found out' and started backpedaling furiously.

During a time when an ISA was KNOWN to be going into effect.

At a time of an expected, huge street rally, of a group known to have a grudge against the government,

and known to hate the army, and think provoking the army is a good idea to cause chaos.

With apparent motivation to do this from leaders, that this tape is demonstrably connected to those leaders,

and that they are NOW in 'damage control mode' speaks volumes.

It would be clear to many with nice speakers and home stereos or computer systems,

I probably could tell on most any system in a decent environment.

But taxi drivers on the road might not hear it's defects and assume it IS real.

People partly listening in noisy restaurants or on the streets wouldn't hear the background noise at all.

Too many might confuse bad editing, for static and noise on their radios, or environments etc.

And that is how incorrect rumors run rampant...

A mad rumor like this running through the reddened ranks at a rally could be very destructive,

especially if echo'd from the stage... They have already concocted their own post Songkran storyline

having little to do with the truth, but giving them a pass for the destruction, and blaming the army

and government for all of it. This tape as rumor, and then fed with incendiary speaches from the stage ,

was potentially explosive.

This is not nor ever can be considered a little prank audio parody.

Edited September 2, 2009 by animatic

[ThNiner]

^ What Khun Animatic said.

[RKASA]

Animatic  puts forward a possible vast red conspiracy, that I accept could be true, but in most cases its rare.  Like killing presidents, its normally just some nut case.  The theory is going to require a smoking gun or maybe a confession to be anything more at this point.

I think it could just be an over active novice that thinks they were doing something to help the cause they hardly understand, and they have yet to fine out who they really are and with assumptions that works just as well, but I do give it higher odds because of human nature.   

They may not want to know. Having found an association to Thaksin.  How many other places did this clip appear as a source?, because if it was distributed on the street the odds are high there would be more apparent sources to the net then this, having found that there was a level or some association to Thaksin by proxy may have just become a vary convenient place to stop looking. I don't think anybody is going to run forward with any new information at this point having seen two people arrested already.

"until they realized it was 'found out' and started backpedaling furiously".   You automatically make them part of the vast conspiracy.  You could assume they found out they just got burned too.   

Recall what happened to Dan Rather, He assumed he had the big scoop on GW and Nam gate, it was no shame on his part that he had to do some back stepping himself over a fake.  Thats the problem with novice work, both sides get burned.  Naturally they will make politic of it, its what they do on both sides.

As far as the two and saying they didn't know and didn't make it,  the burden of proof is on the government and assumptions in such a serious matter would be unfair even if convenient.

I can't judge the quality of the clip, no one will send me a copy and I will pass on any offers..

Just humble rambling nothing more.  Cheers

[SHYTALK]

Why doesn't thailand just have a legitimate election and put all this sort of stuff to bed?

Who in thailand is afraid of democracy and letting the people decide.

[TAWP]

I'm talking about the aggressive clampdown on people that simply forwarded an email attachment; it's

But that simple forwarding of false statement that could harm the national security and not to mention a person's life (Abhisit's), was apparently against the law. So you suggest this gov't ought to run the country by not enforcing the rule of law as long as the reds can do whatever they please? That's your democracy? Nice.

There is no evidence at all that the two who forwarded the email had any idea it was false.

In fact how would they have known it was false considering it took experts in sound files to decide that it was a fake?

Looking at the wave-shape from the news, it doesn't require an expert, just someone to actually look at in an application that displays it. (Hint: Mp3 players doesn't)

[TAWP]

But that simple forwarding of false statement that could harm the national security and not to mention a person's life (Abhisit's), was apparently against the law. So you suggest this gov't ought to run the country by not enforcing the rule of law as long as the reds can do whatever they please? That's your democracy? Nice.

False statement - you seem to know more than the police, Abhisit or anyone else.

Could - democracy doesn't survive long with these conditionals.

"this g..." Oh Please. The reds get arrested for throwing eggs. The Yellows shoot, run over, invade airports...

And you call Plus a distorter of facts?

An edited speech to make it look like someone said something that wasn't true could reasonable be called a 'false statement', but granted it might not be perfect English...

[justanothercybertosser]

Doctored or not - the stuff on the tape is seriously damaging to Prime Minister's reputation, you should expect some sort of a response, most likely lawsuit for defamation or libel, whichever applies, in this case Computer Act, and you will have to be prepared to defend yourself in court. What do you think are the chances "I didn't know it was false" defence line?

The fake abhisit clip is on the same disgusting level and as inciting as the "finland plan" - i wouldn't mind seeing the originators of both in court.

[animatic]

Why doesn't thailand just have a legitimate election and put all this sort of stuff to bed?

Who in thailand is afraid of democracy and letting the people decide.

Because that would not put it to bed,

but just stall it with all the battle sides drawn.

And awaiting a very sad event, and this needs to be settled before that.

Unless elections are free and fair, unlike the last 3-4 it can never be a solution.

I need not postulated a " Vast Red Conspiracy"

Take PTP with direct Tie to Red Shirts

Jatuporm a PTP MP and RED Shirt leader

His rabble rousing on the stage and who this could tie in.

Take Chalerm PTP leader who broadcast long and loud about this file,

till he found out it was faked and Abhisit was steaming and going for

the law, with teeth in it, over this and then too slowly,

and then MUCH more quickly back pedaled away.

Take major PTP supporter Yingluck,

little sister of devious symbol of Red Shirt salvation Dr. T.

And her worker bees being integral to this files moving out to the world.

We ONLY have their word that they got it at a Bus Stop.

There is NO corroboration beyond that one person saying something.

If you mean a meeting was held to smear Abhisit via this tape, nope I doubt it,

Just standing orders to find dirt on him and the Dems ASAP.

That most all of these people were hungry for ANYTHING to slam Abhisit with,

then this is totally plausible.

They took this audio smear and ALL ran with it.

Not knowing much about electronic files it seems.

PTP, SC Management for Thaksin and Red shirts; nice little bundle,

intending to disseminate this tripe vastly... in Redland.

Edited September 2, 2009 by animatic

[Plus]

...

The origins of the e-mail chain were traced to SC Asset, that has been widely reported. What did I alter here?

I did; clearly underlined and in orange (post #94)! What more do you want??? Okay, let's help you in baby steps...

The original news item (postem at the start of this thread) and other news clips posted make clear statements about the two employees who forwarded this audio clip:

News clip (post #1) "Monday warned the people against forwarding Prime Minister's doctored audio clip"

News clip (post #6) "two company employees arrested on Sunday for alleged involvement in the release of the controversial audio clip"

News clip (post #55) "have been charged with disseminating the controversial audio"

You then alter those statements to suit your purpose... In your post (#84) you stated that the people caught (and released) were responsible for the recording; your words (post #84) "Out of thousands that have been involved in this only people who have been arrested (and released) are the guys who started it all."

They didn't start anything, nobody (except you) is saying they did... They had an audio clip which they forwarded to some work colleagues, nothing more.

You, I and likely hundreds of thousands of other people in Thailand could be equally 'guilty' of forwarding similar information in a similar way (yellow, red or blue info: it matters not). This is political thuggery by the ruling power, it's undemocratic and very dangerous. It's an abuse of freedom of speech and freedom of sharing information, in my opinion - these are the actions of scary states; Stalin has been mentioned along with the Burmese junta (I mentioned the 70's Pakistan junta)...

Blinkered and polarized folk such as yourself who support actions of this type by this 'government' are helping to set this country back decades. It is not acceptable for MrT, Abby, the army or anyone else to silence the people...

You regularly misquote news clips, statements and quotes, in the way outlined above, to suit your blinkered viewpoint. I stand by my words; it's pathetic and shameless to alter and / or misquote statements in order to further your 'argument'...

The guys admitted getting a CD of the clip, putting it into mp3 format and sending it to their collegues.

That was the start of the viral e-mail forwarding chain that included even opposition MPs.

I never claimed they created the clip themselves. And they never said they simply forwarded e-mail recieved from somebody else. And your objections don't make any sense whatsoever.

It seems the only reason for your lenghty post is to put in words like "blinkered", "pathetic" and "shameless".

[Plus]

Doctored or not - the stuff on the tape is seriously damaging to Prime Minister's reputation, you should expect some sort of a response, most likely lawsuit for defamation or libel, whichever applies, in this case Computer Act, and you will have to be prepared to defend yourself in court. What do you think are the chances "I didn't know it was false" defence line?

The fake abhisit clip is on the same disgusting level and as inciting as the "finland plan" - i wouldn't mind seeing the originators of both in court.

Nice try. There's a difference, however.

Abhisit's actual words are a matter of public record.

What has been discussed at that meeting in Finland is still a secret. None of the participants, and i guess there were dozens of them, came forward with a "real" version.

Ever.

Only a couple admitted that there actually WAS a meeting and visions of Thailand's future were discussed and that's where they all developed either a memory loss or speech impediment.

Makes one wonder why they never tried to sue the publishers - maybe they are afraid to present their version of the story.

Don't misunderstand me - I'm all for openness here. Let them sue, it's probably the only way to find out what really happened.

[jayboy]

What has been discussed at that meeting in Finland is still a secret. None of the participants, and i guess there were dozens of them, came forward with a "real" version.

I don't normally recommend Wiki articles but in this instance (Finland Plot) the key points are well covered.

[ballpoint]

One thing I'd question is, if CD's of the clip were handed out to minibus commuters in Nonthaburi, then where are they all? Has anyone come forward with a copy?

[hammered]

Well organised politcal hatchet job (by reds or possibly (seems less likely now) some assumed to be on his side) or a few silly and overenthusiatic red supporters doing what they thought a good thing for their side and seeing it backfire badly?

Any Zinoviev letter type of politcal hatchet job of any kind of course should be condemned by all, investigated thoroughly and the perpetrators punished.

[justanothercybertosser]

Thaksin firm cleared of involvement in audio clip

2 employees remain under investigation

A police investigation has cleared the Thaksin Shinawatra family firm SC Asset Corporation of involvement with the recording of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva allegedly ordering the violent suppression of anti-government protesters.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/2...t-in-audio-clip

[webfact]

Thaksin firm cleared of involvement in audio clip

2 employees remain under investigation

A police investigation has cleared the Thaksin Shinawatra family firm SC Asset Corporation of involvement with the recording of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva allegedly ordering the violent suppression of anti-government protesters.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/2...t-in-audio-clip

I did expect this............................................................................

..................

[animatic]

Typical,

two underlings told to fall on their swords for the overlords interests.

So classic Thai culture, puts paid the lie that

Thaksin and his clan are not Puyais of the highest water,

and instead are populists of a true and heart felt nature.

Sacrifice two more pawns to protect little sister.

'A youngkluck survives another day out of the protective nest-egg.'

[justanothercybertosser]

Typical,

two underlings told to fall on their swords for the overlords interests.

So classic Thai culture, puts paid the lie that

Thaksin and his clan are not Puyais of the highest water,

and instead are populists of a true and heart felt nature.

Sacrifice two more pawns to protect little sister.

'A youngkluck survives another day out of the protective nest-egg.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

[hammered]

Looks like this episode is being cranked down now. The news cycle on it is pretty much over and the points scored whatever the reality. It will no doubt drag into inconclusive investigations and a few court cases.

What will the next one be?

[animatic]

Typical,

two underlings told to fall on their swords for the overlords interests.

So classic Thai culture, puts paid the lie that

Thaksin and his clan are not Puyais of the highest water,

and instead are populists of a true and heart felt nature.

Sacrifice two more pawns to protect little sister.

'A youngkluck survives another day out of the protective nest-egg.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

The facts that Thaksin is publicly conspiring with Red Rallies to bring down the government is not enough for you,

you must attempt to make anyone saying there is an organized effort to bring down the government,

seem like extreme fringe nut cases; 'Conspiracy buffs or theorists from the far out edges of reason'.

Sorry Charlie Brown that dog don't hunt. We get this as fact from most all of the conspirators own mouths.

Can't get better defacto evidence than that. We may not know what behind the scenes things they do,

but we know what they do up front, and it is more than just plausible that they ALSO do things we can't see... yet.

[justanothercybertosser]

but we know what they do up front, and it is more than just plausible that they ALSO do things we can't see... yet.

What we can see though is that already several days ago the Democrat spokesman who has came out in the first place with the theory that put the origin of the tape with SC Assets has on Thai TV backtracked and said that he was misquoted by the media. Now Police investigations has cleared SC Assets as well.

But you are still convinced that you completely unproven theory is "plausible", and therefore right.

Present me with proof or evidence, and i shall change my views according to the facts presented. As long as you have none whatsoever, you are in the same league as the flat earth society.

[animatic]

but we know what they do up front, and it is more than just plausible that they ALSO do things we can't see... yet.

What we can see though is that already several days ago the Democrat spokesman who has came out in the first place with the theory that put the origin of the tape with SC Assets has on Thai TV backtracked and said that he was misquoted by the media. Now Police investigations has cleared SC Assets as well.

But you are still convinced that you completely unproven theory is "plausible", and therefore right.

Present me with proof or evidence, and i shall change my views according to the facts presented. As long as you have none whatsoever, you are in the same league as the flat earth society.

They said SC was not the "SOURCE" of the edited file, ie who made it,

nothing about it not being culpable for dissemination.

Nor does that say definitvely that SC people do not KNOW who made it.

Nor does it say these two are truthful about the bus stop charade.

It could be one woman was sent to hand out copies as a possible escape valve too.

It could also be the police saying one thing to lull the culprits into being sloppy thinking the got by it.

If you consider the BS the Chalerm has presented in Assmebly sessions all proved wrong,

then using a doctored tape is also totally plausibly, like it or not.

Your side is not over flowing with credibility.

[Plus]

The e-mail origin has been traced to SC Asset, the company itself has been cleared but two employees (though reportedly already fired) are still under investigation.

They are not the creators of the clip, they've been charged with dissimination only.

Nothing will probably come out of the search for mysterious woman giving out CDs at a bus stop.

Political points have been scored, time to move on for everybody, unless Chalerm goes ahead and plays the clip during TV broadcast from parliament. Apparently in such case he won't be under immunity and Dems are likely to charge him full steam.